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Posted: 9/21/2004 8:32:47 AM EDT
[#1]
You don't really need a forward grip for one of these, that's what the magazine and mag well are for. You can basically hold it the same way without having to mess with NFA at all.
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2004 9:38:50 AM EDT
[#2]
i have the bushy carbon and i grab the mag well. i wouldnt want to get any closer than that with my 7in barrel. also can you have a bayo lug on a pistol.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2004 9:57:44 AM EDT
[#3]
Out west, you can almost always carry a loaded rifle, but not a pistol unless you have a CHL. The problem with a CHL (at least in Texas) is that it has to be concealed. If you don't keep it concealed, your license can and will be suspended. How you gonna conceal that thing? In a car you could always throw a pillow over it, but you better make sure it stays put. |
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Posted: 9/21/2004 10:19:28 AM EDT
[#4]
Do you put the stub in your shoulder or fire from the hip??? If it had a clubfoot or something on the buffer spring tube, I could see it being shootable. |
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Posted: 9/21/2004 11:33:25 AM EDT
[#5]
But if you put the club foot on it's a SBR. I'm thinking about the H&K style MP5K/SP89 shoulder rig. What do you guys think? Maybe carry it fall and winter. Just watch out for the maximum mag capacity limit that some cities and states have.
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WA, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2004 12:49:53 PM EDT
[#6]
You shoot it from the hip, or extended out infront of you (1 or 2 hands)
I was thinking about putting one of those sling adapters that they make for CAR setups on the buffer tube so I can attach a sling to this thing.... I doubt that will break any laws.. -Jason |
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Posted: 9/21/2004 12:53:46 PM EDT
[#7]
I've got a couple of KAC M-4 Receiver sling mounts sitting in my parts box right now and I'm planning on putting one of them on my pistol (as soon as I get it). I'm definitely thinking a sling point sling would work out well with this in the MP-5K sort of way.
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Posted: 9/21/2004 2:30:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Single point slig with the pistol forced as far forward as it will go, so the sling is taught, should make it pretty stable.
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2004 3:01:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: imhardkore]
[#9]
removed
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Posted: 9/21/2004 5:13:56 PM EDT
[#10]
That's a mojor no-no........can we say federal offense. That makes it a SBR. |
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Posted: 9/21/2004 5:48:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Dude, what the hell are you doing posting information like this? Is it registered as an SBR? What are NJ's laws for NFA weapons? Remove your post and then remove that stock from your pistol if it's not legal. |
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Posted: 9/21/2004 7:18:33 PM EDT
[#12]
All you need to do is put a C-Mag on it
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2004 9:45:59 PM EDT
[#13]
Done!  
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WA, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2004 9:53:49 PM EDT
[#14]
HOLY HandCannon batman! that is one weird looking weapon...errr.... assault cannon....errr.........special toy... lol...I think I need a beta C now.. -Jason |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2004 10:12:02 PM EDT
[#15]
 another angle
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WA, USA
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Posted: 9/23/2004 3:13:58 AM EDT
[#16]
Anyone have any Larger pistols, or any other calibers yet?
-Jason |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 9/23/2004 9:47:47 AM EDT
[#17]
yea i wanna see some rounds that are legal for hunting like .35rem .243 7.62x39 ,etc
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Posted: 9/23/2004 9:33:50 PM EDT
[#18]
I got all the parts to build my AR -15 pistol today. I almost have everything together, but I have a question. Since the pistol uses a smaller buffer, the buffer retainer won't hold the buffer back while you drop on the upper half. I'm just wondering if there is a easy way of keeping the buffer held back while you install the upper half?
Thanks for your help. Justin |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 9/23/2004 9:36:37 PM EDT
[#19]
buffer goes in after the upper is placed on the lower... (inserted through the tube from the rear, then the end cap is applied.)
-Jason |
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Posted: 9/23/2004 9:47:40 PM EDT
[#20]
I was under the impression that I shouldn't remove the rear cap??? I was thinking this cap was set into position at the factory, and if you didn't get it back in the exact same location, you may have cycle problems.
BTW, did your kit have a silver washer? Where does that thing go? I'm assuming it sets down inside the buffer tube, so the spring doesn't rub against the inside of the tube near the end....kinda like a spacer. Thanks, Justin |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 9/23/2004 9:49:27 PM EDT
[#21]
That's one bad-ass toy. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 9/23/2004 9:49:48 PM EDT
[#22]
The washer sets between the spring and the buffer pin, (the long nail thing)
dont worry about taking the cap off, it doesnt mess with anything... take it apart a few times, and you'll quickly learn how it all works. -Jason |
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Posted: 9/23/2004 10:16:34 PM EDT
[#23]
Ok thanks alot for your help Noner. I'm going to finish getting this thing together and I hope to take it out for her first shots tomorrow
 I'll post some pics after it's all together. Thanks again Justin |
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Posted: 9/24/2004 2:09:58 AM EDT
[#24]
Speaking of that washer, did you notice any wear on the washer from the limited firing? I put about 80 rounds and I noticed the spring was eating into it..... |
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Posted: 9/24/2004 2:32:47 AM EDT
[#25]
Matt, This is the exact same dilema I am in right now- I got the lower but have been going back and forth over low MV and concussion+flame of the 7.5" vs. the heavier forend weight of the 10.5". If you come up with a good argument either way let me know. I think right now I am leaning towards 7.5" as either way the abllistics are questionable. Just get some good JHP ammo and that should solve some of the issue, not to mention that an AR pistol is really not an effective or practical weapon with EITHER barrel, so I might as well get the shorter one- looks cooler and all that, right? 
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WA, USA
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Posted: 9/24/2004 4:22:30 AM EDT
[#26]
Lol... well.. just think of it this way... get the 7.5 for the coolness factor, and maybe upgrade to the 10"+ uppers later on if you dont like how things turn out.... -Jason |
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Posted: 9/24/2004 7:08:07 AM EDT
[#27]
If you go with a 1/7 barrel rather than a 1/9, then you can shoot 68, 75, or 77 grain ammo, and with a 10.5 or 11.5 inch barrel those heavier bullets reliably fragment out to reasonable distances. Of course that rules out the cheap kits. You have to go LMT or CMMG.
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Posted: 9/24/2004 11:30:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Big-Bore]
[#28]
My ATFE agent Mary Jane Humphrey, Louisville KY just contacted me and with good news. She got in contact with the NFA branch and she said that they confirmed, the use of a CAR buffer tube/receiver extension is NOT a butt stock and does NOT make it an SBR. It is perfectly OK to use it on a pistol build, and regardless of the misinterpretation of the Mr. Owen ( link) letter regarding the use of stripped lowers in a pistol build (If you read the letter the person writing the letter said he was wanting to use a RIFLE receiver. A stripped, never assembled AR-15 lower is not by default a "rifle" receiver, but a stripped lower only) you do not have to do anything except use a virgin stripped lower that has never been assembled into a rifle. It should state on the 4473 when you buy it that it is a "stripped lower" and anything else is incorrect and MAY be a violation.
Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead! |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 9/24/2004 12:35:24 PM EDT
[#29]
Not to be pissy but the Federal law says you can make a pistol out of "rifle" receiver as long as it has not been assembled into a firearm. It does not say anything about 4473s or anything other that it should be documented that it was not a rifle before. This can be accomplished by obtaining a letter, email or such from the manufacturer that your particular receiver was not assembled when shipped. It is obviously a good idea to have it documented on the 4473, but if you bought a reciever from a dealer at a gun show you may not remember who you bought it from.
When I bought my stripped lower, I wasn't sure what I was going to use it for. In fact I had it and several others for several years. Finally when the AWB expired I decided to build a pistol. After checking with the local and state police, I confirmed what I already knew. My state does not consider a stripped receiver a firearm until it is built. One still has to have it transferred per Federal law but not registered as a pistol until assembled. In my state, (Michigan) one needs a "permit to purchase" from the local PD to obtain a handgun. I simply picked up the permit, put my AR pistol together and took it and the permit back to the PD for the "safety inspection" which is what they call registration. Once its a registered it is a pistol by state law it is a pistol. Now, for all you paranoid guys who think the ATF is going to somehow track down receivers and cross reference them with dealer held 4473s to see what was built what way, it ain't gonna happen. If you built your pistol on a stripped receiver, the burden is on the government to prove the receiver was something different. If it wasn't then there is no way they can prove it. You made your pistol in good faith compliance with the law. If your state requires registration, then register it. You are complying with the law. Don't worry about the vagueness of the laws, you complied. Of course, if your are planning on committing crimes with your AR pistol what ever gun violations you committed will be added to the other charges against you. |
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Posted: 9/24/2004 1:56:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kaliburz]
[#30]
That is cool. So to be legal, all one has to do is take off the stock when using the "pistol barrel" and then put it on when going to carbine....
Yes, some people are aware that the "only" requirment is a virgin, ever built lower receiver..... but the sheeple can't beleive that it's that easy.....
I know that, but doesn't hurt I suppose. People are paranoid....I suppose I'm one of them 
Crime? What is a crime |
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Posted: 9/24/2004 2:37:36 PM EDT
[#31]
I understand the "virgin" receiver thing, but I keep seeing you guys say get a "stripped" receiver and have it listed as a stripped lower on the 4473. I was getting ready to buy a few complete lowers (not lower 1/2's) w/o the stocks from Eagle Firearms. It is the same price to get a complete lower vs. a stripped lower + lower parts kit. I guess I am being lazy, and having them assemble it for free sounds pretty good. The receiver is still a "virgin" so this should be ok, correct?? And yes I am probably a little paranoid.
FB P.S. All this talk of "stripped" and "virgin" just seems wrong  |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 9/24/2004 4:44:34 PM EDT
[#32]
it sure would be nice to have a "stripped" "virgin" wouldnt it lol
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MI, USA
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Posted: 9/24/2004 10:20:25 PM EDT
[#33]
LOL, yeah, in our dreams |
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Posted: 9/26/2004 2:02:56 PM EDT
[#34]
And you got this in writing and are posting a copy, right? |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/26/2004 3:05:26 PM EDT
[#35]
Does this pistol function 100% without jamming? ( ANY SPECIAL PARTS TO MAKE IT WORK) & what length barrel do you have on it.
THANKS IN ADVANCE. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 9/27/2004 3:04:47 PM EDT
[#36]
Image Hosted for Kaliburz 
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Posted: 9/27/2004 3:15:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Big-Bore]
[#37]
Yes, as a matter of fact I do have it in writing and in conversation with witnesses, but the written part is in the form of an e-mail so legally it does not mean squat if you were to get hauled into court, any more than having a letter addressed to someone else will help you out if hauled into court. If you don't want to believe me, I gave you the contact info, contact Mary Jane Humphrey, Louisville, KY ATFE. Or, do what you want.
As usual for letters of late written to the ATFE for reply on their letterhead, all of mine have gone unanswered. |
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Posted: 9/27/2004 3:24:57 PM EDT
[#38]
Cool, wasn't accusing you of anything, I just know that many, mnay, many times ATF agents don't know sh*t about the laws they enforce and/or give contradicting info. Anyhow, less talk, more pics! 
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WA, USA
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Posted: 9/27/2004 3:29:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Noner]
[#39]
I'd like to see some Action Shots! I can host images for people if they need the service, I'll do it for free. -Jason |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 10/4/2004 2:03:17 PM EDT
[#40]
i just ordered a 10 1/4 kit for a pistol, and a lofrom cmmg
i hope the kit works out well |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/5/2004 2:34:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Noner]
[#41]
Ok... I have a problem....
You'll see in the move that I have to use my thumb to keep hitting the forward assist on the upper.... the bolt doesnt want to seem to lock into place... Here's one of the guys who was shooting with me today...  -Jason |
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Posted: 10/5/2004 2:39:16 AM EDT
[#42]
Weird. If it has enuf gas to cycle (NO FTF/FTE) I would think it would have enuf gas to make the bolt slam home....
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Posted: 10/5/2004 2:40:06 AM EDT
[#43]
Maybe a burr or something?
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/5/2004 2:53:21 AM EDT
[#44]
Thats what I thought too..... I took it apart probably 5 times while out in the feild... checked it all over... I cant figure it out.. -Jason |
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Posted: 10/5/2004 3:40:48 AM EDT
[#45]
Is your pistol running off the 1911 45 spring ?
FWIW - I have seen in the past where the spring needed to be upgraded to a stiffer model to push the bolt all the way home. I have also seen guys get them to work by using a bolt and bolt carrier combo that is "broke - in" Meaning the bolt moved very freely (locking in and out) inside the carrier. In a lot of pistol systems your asking a 45 spring to do what a very large CAR spring was doing before. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/5/2004 3:43:53 AM EDT
[#46]
I wish I knew exactly how long a 1911 spring looks like.... but I dont have one for comparison...
If I had to guess.. then yup, looks to be about the size a pistol might need, but maybe longer.. anyway... I'll try and use a "broken in" Bolt and BC on my next outing... -Jason |
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Posted: 10/5/2004 3:50:55 AM EDT
[#47]
Another quick type of fix option to try is to put a couple of washers around the guide rod at its base in the buffer tube. This pushes the spring forward a bit more and maybe gives it enough strength to push the carrier the last 1/4". Kinda what your doing manually with the forward assist.
I suppose this could also be accomplished by moving the threaded buffer tube forward more ? Not too much so you can't close the upper. With a pistol buffer tube you can move the tube forward because there is no buffer dentent spring. I am no expert on AR pistols. I just rember guys tweeking them back in the "good ol' days"
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Posted: 10/5/2004 3:56:07 AM EDT
[#48]
I went with a smoothbore fullsize buffer/buffertube...no problems.....
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/5/2004 3:56:48 AM EDT
[#49]
I swapped Bolt carriers and bolts, and its a noticable difference in the way the bolts lock into place...
I think it may just work...... (I'm also going to try the washer idea too!) Thanks! -Jason |
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Posted: 10/5/2004 8:21:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kaliburz]
[#50]
A 1911 spring looks exactly like the spring used in the AR pistol recoil tube/buffer.... only shorter. The 1911 is about 5-5.5" long while the AR buffer spring is 7.5-8" long. edit- Nooner, I can sent you a pic comparing a standard 1911 spring to the AR spring, took one of mine a while back for all to see, but haven't dnl-ed it from my camera card to the PC yet. I ordered the 1911 extended slide recoil spring #1 (listed as the strongest). We'll see if it is strong enough and long enough. I got impatient and went to local shop and bought a standard 1911 spring, 22lbs rating. I could feel the resistance with it in there, but the 1911 spring is way too short. Needs to be at leat 7 inches long. The standard spring barely is long enough to close the unit.... runs out of "steam" at the end. A little bit about the Wolf spring I got.... The spring "wire" is visibly thicker then the wire AR recoil spring. And who knows the quality of the spring might be..... Ya know, we're gonna need a new thread on this.... something called AR pistol problems and solutions. Someone should make on in the built it yourslef section and ask the mod to tack it up. I'll let you know how it does when the spring gets here. I'll pick up about 200rounds and fill up my 75 round drum and go "brake" it in.... Becarful about using too many washers. The carrier goes all the way back and the last thing one needs is it slamming into the back of the tube too hard. |
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