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Posted: 1/4/2019 10:27:55 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PovertyPony:
hey guys, what's the shortest buffer tube I can get away with on a 9mm/.45acp AR pistol? I've built up an endcapped off .22LR pistol, I know a 9mm/45 will still need some buffer area, but is there a short option out there that isn't QUITE as obscenely priced as the DFA Modified Cycle System?? |
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Posted: 1/4/2019 10:29:41 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kenfyoozed:
I searched through thread, and will continue.... but to my question.... I bought a Sharps bros warthog stripped lower, pistol lower parts kit from PSA with a brace to build into an AR15 pistol. If I were to remove the 8" .556 barrel that I currently have and replace it with a 16" .450 bushmaster , I would still have an AR15 pistol, correct? If I were to use 16" .450 bushmaster barreled pistol for hunting in areas where rifles were not allowed but pistols of any caliber are, how would I defend that this weapon is a pistol and not a SBR? Would the pistol brace be enough to argue as proof? I am sure I am "skating on thin ice" with this logic, but as long as I follow the "letter of the law" Im ok with that. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/5/2019 12:51:02 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshAston:
Battle Arms has their short system. It's not as short as the Deadfoot, but not quite as pricey either. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/10/2019 10:39:23 AM EDT
[#4]
Man I can't wait to start building my first AR pistol!
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2019 12:42:33 AM EDT
[#5]
I live in georgia. I have been reluctant to build an ar pistol. Someone told me when you buy your lower it has to be marked as handgun on the buyers record at dealer. However, i purchased one to build a pistol and lady told me she couldnt mark it as handgun that a stripped lower has to be marked "other". Can i still use it to build an ar pistol? Dont want to commit any felonies.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2019 1:23:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jeremywills]
[#6]
The short answer federally "yes". The long answer depending on your state/local laws etc........ "maybe".
I believe GA is still one of the free states for the most part so you should be good to go. Hopefully some other GA residents will chime in here to confirm or add any additional info on this. The lady was correct, a stripped virgin lower receiver on the federal form 4473 would be marked as "other". Assuming there is no additional requirements on your end there in GA build up your pistol and enjoy it. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2019 3:15:37 PM EDT
[#7]
Thank you.
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WA, USA
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Posted: 4/15/2019 10:11:52 PM EDT
[#8]
MVB micro
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Posted: 4/17/2019 7:51:36 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SouthernGunz:
I live in georgia. I have been reluctant to build an ar pistol. Someone told me when you buy your lower it has to be marked as handgun on the buyers record at dealer. However, i purchased one to build a pistol and lady told me she couldnt mark it as handgun that a stripped lower has to be marked "other". Can i still use it to build an ar pistol? Dont want to commit any felonies. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2019 10:43:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BrettJ4]
[#10]
duplicate, sorry.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2019 10:43:57 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SouthernGunz:
I live in georgia. I have been reluctant to build an ar pistol. Someone told me when you buy your lower it has to be marked as handgun on the buyers record at dealer. However, i purchased one to build a pistol and lady told me she couldnt mark it as handgun that a stripped lower has to be marked "other". Can i still use it to build an ar pistol? Dont want to commit any felonies. My firm belief is that the ATF doesn't care if it looks like a duck, they only care if you try to make it quack like a duck. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2019 12:01:16 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 5/12/2019 12:24:18 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote History |
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2019 1:13:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: togadelic]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshAston:
No Thanks |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 6/6/2019 8:35:23 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SouthernGunz:
I live in georgia. I have been reluctant to build an ar pistol. Someone told me when you buy your lower it has to be marked as handgun on the buyers record at dealer. However, i purchased one to build a pistol and lady told me she couldnt mark it as handgun that a stripped lower has to be marked "other". Can i still use it to build an ar pistol? Dont want to commit any felonies. Examples would be like the Ohio case where the ATF tried to get someone on not having a registered SBR when he modified the brace on his AR pistol. He had been arrested for domestic violence and his firearms confiscated, that's why the local police got the ATF involved. Lesson learned: He won the case against the ATF but is still a dude with anger issues and a DV on his record. Another instance? If you use your firearm in self defense (such as a home invasion). Then the police will get your firearm. The theory that if you go to a range and the RSO or some plain clothes cop will say something and confiscate your firearm? They won't. They shouldn't be touching someone else's firearm at all. I go to my bay, shoot the ammo I bring and go. Nobody shoots my firearms unless they are a friend and I bring them to the range. |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 6/17/2019 4:31:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Can a Colt MK18 barrel be used for pistol builds? Or is there some "intended use" clause that says it must be used as a SBR?
I see these for sale routinely over on the EE, occasionally for a reasonable deal and might be tempted to pick one up for the right price. |
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Posted: 6/17/2019 6:25:55 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By subroc:
Can a Colt MK18 barrel be used for pistol builds? Or is there some "intended use" clause that says it must be used as a SBR? I see these for sale routinely over on the EE, occasionally for a reasonable deal and might be tempted to pick one up for the right price. |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 6/17/2019 6:37:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: subroc]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshAston:
Yes, you can use them on a pistol. Barrels are unregulated. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshAston:
Originally Posted By subroc:
Can a Colt MK18 barrel be used for pistol builds? Or is there some "intended use" clause that says it must be used as a SBR? I see these for sale routinely over on the EE, occasionally for a reasonable deal and might be tempted to pick one up for the right price. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2019 7:02:55 PM EDT
[#19]
So I just had a rather lengthy conversation with a prominent NFA/2A Attorney in the Alpharetta, G.A. area who also happens to be a Class III dealer.
I initially enquired about an NFA Trust and the subject moved to AR SBR's/Pistols. He was ADAMANT about the fact that a stripped lower receiver NOT specifically sold as / marked as a pistol could NOT be built into a pistol legally and that if found the Alphabet Soup boys can and will prosecute. Something about not being able to manufacture a pistol.... While I am certainly not an attorney, the info at this ATF Link seems to contradict him. |
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Posted: 9/13/2019 7:49:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: November5]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 0627Devildog:
So I just had a rather lengthy conversation with a prominent NFA/2A Attorney in the Alpharetta, G.A. area who also happens to be a Class III dealer. I initially enquired about an NFA Trust and the subject moved to AR SBR's/Pistols. He was ADAMANT about the fact that a stripped lower receiver NOT specifically sold as / marked as a pistol could NOT be built into a pistol legally and that if found the Alphabet Soup boys can and will prosecute. Something about not being able to manufacture a pistol.... While I am certainly not an attorney, the info at this ATF Link seems to contradict him. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2019 8:09:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Sniper3142]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 0627Devildog:
So I just had a rather lengthy conversation with a prominent NFA/2A Attorney in the Alpharetta, G.A. area who also happens to be a Class III dealer. I initially enquired about an NFA Trust and the subject moved to AR SBR's/Pistols. He was ADAMANT about the fact that a stripped lower receiver NOT specifically sold as / marked as a pistol could NOT be built into a pistol legally and that if found the Alphabet Soup boys can and will prosecute. Something about not being able to manufacture a pistol.... While I am certainly not an attorney, the info at this ATF Link seems to contradict him. In fact, this reminds me of another moron who was a NFA/NRA/CCW/XYZ instructor/dealer/expert, who kept telling people a handgun could not legally be transported in the same locked container with loaded magazines. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2019 9:43:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshAston:
He's wrong. Tell him to cite you his sources. And you want specifics, not someone at ATF told him. He's a lawyer so he should be able to provide you with a US Code, CFR, ATF Ruling, or at minimum an opinion letter. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/14/2019 1:33:10 PM EDT
[#23]
So I've been looking around AR15.com the last couple of days for the information I'm looking for, but I've been seeing conflicting answers from various dates, so I was hoping you guys might know the latest & greatest.
My situation is this: I have an Aero Precision lower with an SBA3 Tactical Brace (This One and I just ordered a PSA 11.5" upper (This Guy. My question is, how do they measure the OAL as of September, 2019? Is it from the end of the buffer tube, with the brace fully collapsed, or with the brace fully extended? I ask because I'd like to mount a VFG to this build and use it as a truck gun that I won't care if it gets banged around in the back seat. As far as I'm aware in South Carolina law, you can have a rifle in your back seat as long as it's not loaded and the road you're traveling down isn't a dirt track (an effort to cut down on opportunistic illegal hunting I think). I've gone through several Highway Patrol license/DUI checks, and I usually just tell them I have the rifle back there, then they give it a once over through the window and send me on my merry way. Does anyone familiar with SC law know if a pistol lower with an OAL of 26" is viewed the same as a rifle in terms of storage/transport within a vehicle? Thanks for any help. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 11/27/2019 3:42:22 PM EDT
[#24]
I just bought an Anderson stripped lower. On the 4473 the FFL dealer marked the "Other" box even though there were boxes for both pistol and long gun. The ATF doesn't care how you build it as long as you are 21 or older.
From the 4473 Question 16. Type of Firearm(s): "Other" refers to frames, receivers and other firearms that are neither handguns nor long guns (rifles or shotguns), such as firearms having a pistol grip that expel a shotgun shell, or National Firearms Act (NFA) firearms, including silencers. If a frame or receiver can only be made into a long gun (rifle or shotgun), it is still a frame or receiver not a handgun or long gun. However, frames and receivers are still "firearms" by definition, and subject to the same GCA limitations as any other firearms. See Section 921(a)(3)(B). Section 922(b)(1) makes it unlawful for a licensee to sell any firearm other than a shotgun or rifle to any person under the age of 21. Since a frame or receiver for a firearm, to include one that can only be made into a long gun, is a "firearm other than a shotgun or rifle," it cannot be transferred to anyone under the age of 21, nor can these firearms be transferred to anyone who is not a resident of the State where the transfer is to take place. Also, note that multiple sales forms are not required for frames or receivers of any firearms, or pistol grip shotguns, since they are not "pistols or revolvers" under Section 923(g)(3)(A). |
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Posted: 2/21/2020 6:55:45 PM EDT
[#25]
Ok guys, I have several, new, bare lower receivers, and several colt socom barrels, it is my understanding, that I can build these lowers, install sba3 brace, and use the 14.5 barrel for a AR pistol. I live in Texas. Is this a true statement?
Thanks |
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Posted: 2/21/2020 7:04:53 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lotsagas4u:
Ok guys, I have several, new, bare lower receivers, and several colt socom barrels, it is my understanding, that I can build these lowers, install sba3 brace, and use the 14.5 barrel for a AR pistol. I live in Texas. Is this a true statement? Thanks |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 8/22/2020 5:58:44 PM EDT
[#27]
Maybe someone can help clear this up for me...
Legal question. Still waiting on form 1. Can I put a vertical foregrip on my 14.5” as long as it’s on my pistol lower in the meantime? I think the oal length with brace off is 28.5” to the muzzle (no muzzle device) |
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Posted: 8/22/2020 7:54:49 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Soopreme: Maybe someone can help clear this up for me... Legal question. Still waiting on form 1. Can I put a vertical foregrip on my 14.5" as long as it's on my pistol lower in the meantime? I think the oal length with brace off is 28.5" to the muzzle (no muzzle device) |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 8/22/2020 8:29:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshAston: Yes, as long as it's over 26" and no stock. Thanks for the response sir. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 8/23/2020 3:42:55 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCState85: So I've been looking around AR15.com the last couple of days for the information I'm looking for, but I've been seeing conflicting answers from various dates, so I was hoping you guys might know the latest & greatest. My situation is this: I have an Aero Precision lower with an SBA3 Tactical Brace (This One and I just ordered a PSA 11.5" upper (This Guy. My question is, how do they measure the OAL as of September, 2019? Is it from the end of the buffer tube, with the brace fully collapsed, or with the brace fully extended? I ask because I'd like to mount a VFG to this build and use it as a truck gun that I won't care if it gets banged around in the back seat. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCState85: So I've been looking around AR15.com the last couple of days for the information I'm looking for, but I've been seeing conflicting answers from various dates, so I was hoping you guys might know the latest & greatest. My situation is this: I have an Aero Precision lower with an SBA3 Tactical Brace (This One and I just ordered a PSA 11.5" upper (This Guy. My question is, how do they measure the OAL as of September, 2019? Is it from the end of the buffer tube, with the brace fully collapsed, or with the brace fully extended? I ask because I'd like to mount a VFG to this build and use it as a truck gun that I won't care if it gets banged around in the back seat. For the SBA3, it is measured with the brace collapsed. As far as I'm aware in South Carolina law, you can have a rifle in your back seat as long as it's not loaded and the road you're traveling down isn't a dirt track (an effort to cut down on opportunistic illegal hunting I think). That is incorrect. Under SC law, you may carry a long gun anywhere in your vehicle, loaded or unloaded. Does anyone familiar with SC law know if a pistol lower with an OAL of 26" is viewed the same as a rifle in terms of storage/transport within a vehicle? Thanks for any help. If you put a VFG on a pistol with an OAL of 26"+, it is a "firearm", and you can carry it anywhere in the vehicle. Otherwise it remains a "handgun", and must be carried in accordance with SC handgun laws. |
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Posted: 8/23/2020 5:42:40 PM EDT
[#31]
OAL is measured from the end of the barrel threads, unless muzzle device is pinned & welded, to the end of the buffer tube, without brace.
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VA, USA
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Posted: 8/24/2020 2:06:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Soopreme]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Clint50: OAL is measured from the end of the barrel threads, unless muzzle device is pinned & welded, to the end of the buffer tube, without brace. yeah i was told from buffer tube with the brace off (not to count the brace in the OAL measurement) for 11.5: barrels you might have to look into longer/extended pistol tubes.. you wont be able to use the milspec/commercial standard buffer tubes. anotther option is to pin and weld a longer flasher hider. |
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Posted: 10/2/2020 9:20:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: doc540]
[#33]
probably asked for the 10k time:
For about 10 years I've had a legal, tax stamped 11.5" Sabre Defense SBR in 223/556. Runs fine. If I swap out a 7.5" upper, should I expect it to run ok with the factory buffer system? Or is this just a "wait and try it" kinda deal? thnx |
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Posted: 10/8/2020 8:03:50 PM EDT
[#34]
it worked
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/8/2021 1:02:33 PM EDT
[#35]
None of this matters if the gun doesn't pass ATF 4999 worksheet. Just about all braces will be illegal now.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 7/23/2021 9:57:36 PM EDT
[#36]
I have a 7.5 w a H2 buffer. Over gassed, Can definatly feel the recoil. But runs reliable. Adjustable gas block would be a plus.
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WI, USA
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Posted: 1/31/2022 9:57:03 PM EDT
[#37]
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VENrjPvuuzk&feature=youtu.be
Concerning braces and 80% ATF ruling for 2022 |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 1/12/2023 12:50:13 PM EDT
[#38]
curious to see the real verdict in the end. Lawsuits, turn arounds appeals etc.
$100 million this FY for the ATF funding.......highly suspicious |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/23/2023 11:56:15 AM EDT
[#39]
Received approved Form 1 for braced 9mm pistol.
- submitted 16 April - I figured they already know I have stamps so I’ll take some free ones too. I keep ya’ll in the loop on how this pans out. But they simply email the the approved Form 1, no hard copy. This is to advise you that the status of your eForms submission with the subject Permit/Control number has changed to APPROVED Permit/Control No: 2023XXXXXX Your Reference No: Submission Date: 07/21/2023 Form ID: ATF Form 1 (5320.1) - Application to Make and Register a Firearm Please logon to the eForms site for more details. If you have any questions about your eForms submission, please contact: for Imports questions, call (304) 616-4550 for NFA questions, call (304) 616-4500 for AFMER questions, call (304) 616-4590 for Firearms Licensing questions, call 1-866-662-2750 |
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