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Posted: 2/1/2011 4:58:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By Altair:
My Honady manual shows 2300fps for a 30/30 from a 20" barrel FWIW. I also think your .223 numbers are on the high side. I get 2900-3000 from M193 from a 16" and only 2500-2600 from 75gr handloads at 5.56 pressure (using TAC and Ramshot's 5.56 load data). Even with the high .223 numbers it seems .25-223 is still much better by the numbers. I would love to see some gel testing with the bullets available in .257 that work well with this cartridge. Any chance we could get Sharps to sponsor some at Brassfetcher like AAC did with the Blackout? Thanks for the input. Glad this is generating interest and discussion. The .223/5.56 information I used came straight - for the most part - from Molon's many excellent posts. Again, where I had conflicting data I tried to use the data that cast the 25-223 in the most negative light possible. No favoritism for the 25-223 here. |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 5:52:27 PM EDT
[#2]
Wow, cool info wombat.
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NY, USA
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Posted: 2/1/2011 6:52:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 320pf]
[#3]
I am assuming that your 25-223 - 100 grain SP results are spitzer points without a boattail. The GameKing and MatchKing ballistics bullets are probably much more comparable to the 6.8 110 grain TAP BTHP
Here is what the 25-223AR (25AR) ballistics look like for the 100 gr. Sierra MatchKing and Sierra 100 grain SPBT GameKing. 25-223 - 100 grain MK - 2540 fps / 1432 ft lbs at muzzle; 2095 fps / 974 ft lbs at 200 yards; 29.3" drop at 400 yards* 25-223 - 100 grain GK - 2540 fps / 1432 ft lbs at muzzle; 2044 fps / 928 ft lbs at 200 yards; 31.3" drop at 400 yards* (*these results are calculated with a 200 yrd. zero) 320pf Originally Posted By wombat25:
Okay, guys, I took the liberty of comparing the .25-223 to a variety of similar cartridges both in terms of energy delivered at the muzzle and then at 200 yards: 5.56 M193 – 55 grain FMJ – 3165 fps / 1223 ft lbs at muzzle; 2451 fps / 734 ft lbs at 200 yards 5.56 M855 – 62 grain FMJ – 2938 fps / 1188 ft lbs at muzzle; 2309 fps / 734 ft lbs at 200 yards 223 TAP FPD – 75 grain BTHP – 2528 fps / 1064 ft lbs at muzzle; 2044 fps / 696 ft lbs at 200 yards; 32.4" drop at 400 yards 5.56 TAP T2 – 75 grain BTHP – 2713 fps / 1226 ft lbs at muzzle; 2208 fps / 812 ft lbs at 200 yards 7.62x39 - 123 grain FMJ - 2245 fps / 1377 ft lbs at muzzle; 1637 fps / 732 ft lbs at 200 yards 7.62x39 - 154 grain SP - 2097 fps / 1504 ft lbs at muzzle; 1654 fps / 936 ft lbs at 200 yards 25-223 - 100 grain SP - 2540 fps / 1432 ft lbs at muzzle; 2041 fps / 925 ft lbs at 200 yards; 32.6" drop at 400 yards 6.8 SPC – 90 grain HP - 2870 fps / 1646 ft lbs at muzzle; 2017 fps/ 813 ft lbs at 200 yards 6.8 SPC – 115 grain FMJ - 2400 fps / 1471 ft lbs at muzzle; 1859 fps/ 882 ft lbs at 200 yards 6.8 SPC TAP - 110 grain BTHP - 2570 fps / 1613 ft lbs at muzzle; 2106 fps/ 1083 ft lbs at 200 yards; 30.4" drop at 400 yards 300 BLK - 123 grain FMJ - 2315 fps / 1462 ft lbs at muzzle; 1729 fps / 816 ft lbs at 200 yards; 46.7" drop at 400 yards 30-30 Win – 150 grain SP - 2270 fps / 1716 ft lbs at muzzle; 1705 fps / 968 ft lbs at 200 yards Notes/Takeaways - I used data from 16"-18" barrels for all cartridges, which explains why the velocities shown above for certain cartridges (the 5.56 service loads, for example) are slightly lower than the usual published velocities. The 25-223 gives a meaningful increase in delivered energy over even the hottest .223/5.56 loads at all ranges. The 25-223 holds its own extremely well against the 6.8 SPC, especially at range. At worst the 25-223 gives up 10-15% in terms of energy. At best the 25-223 is equivalent or slightly better in terms of external ballistics. No meaningful difference in trajectories at 400 yards between standard loadings of the .223/5.56, 25-223, and 6.8 SPC. The 25-223 gives up basically nothing to supersonic 300 BLK loadings, and offers clear advantage at range. 
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Posted: 2/1/2011 7:23:08 PM EDT
[#4]
Wow, 320pf, you're pretty good. I am indeed shooting the Sierra 100-grainer without the boattail. Using the Match King - or any other bullet with a better BC - closes even more of the gap between the 25-223 and the 6.8 SPC.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 2/1/2011 8:43:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 320pf]
[#5]
While we are at it, we should also consider the 87 grain and 75 grain bullets for comparison to the 6.8 SPC – 90 grain HP bullets and 75 grain bullets for comparison to the 75 grain 5.56 bullets. I have been able to push 87 grain bullets to 2750 fps, but lets go with 2700 fps and Speer 87 TNT. Similarly, with 75 grain Horn. Vmax bullets, I have obtained 2900 to 3000 fps. I'll lets go with 2900 fps. I will admit to cherry picking 25 cal. bullets with better BC's.
25-223 - Speer 87 grain TNT - 2700 fps / 1409 ft lbs at muzzle; 2143 fps / 887 ft lbs at 200 yards; 29.5" drop at 400 yards* 25-223 - Horn 75 grain VMax - 2900 fps / 1400 ft lbs at muzzle; 2282 fps / 867 ft lbs at 200 yards; 25.9" drop at 400 yards* (*these results are calculated with a 200 yrd. zero) 320pf Originally Posted By wombat25:
Okay, guys, I took the liberty of comparing the .25-223 to a variety of similar cartridges both in terms of energy delivered at the muzzle and then at 200 yards: 5.56 M193 – 55 grain FMJ – 3165 fps / 1223 ft lbs at muzzle; 2451 fps / 734 ft lbs at 200 yards 5.56 M855 – 62 grain FMJ – 2938 fps / 1188 ft lbs at muzzle; 2309 fps / 734 ft lbs at 200 yards 223 TAP FPD – 75 grain BTHP – 2528 fps / 1064 ft lbs at muzzle; 2044 fps / 696 ft lbs at 200 yards; 32.4" drop at 400 yards 5.56 TAP T2 – 75 grain BTHP – 2713 fps / 1226 ft lbs at muzzle; 2208 fps / 812 ft lbs at 200 yards 7.62x39 - 123 grain FMJ - 2245 fps / 1377 ft lbs at muzzle; 1637 fps / 732 ft lbs at 200 yards 7.62x39 - 154 grain SP - 2097 fps / 1504 ft lbs at muzzle; 1654 fps / 936 ft lbs at 200 yards 25-223 - 100 grain SP - 2540 fps / 1432 ft lbs at muzzle; 2041 fps / 925 ft lbs at 200 yards; 32.6" drop at 400 yards 6.8 SPC – 90 grain HP - 2870 fps / 1646 ft lbs at muzzle; 2017 fps/ 813 ft lbs at 200 yards 6.8 SPC – 115 grain FMJ - 2400 fps / 1471 ft lbs at muzzle; 1859 fps/ 882 ft lbs at 200 yards 6.8 SPC TAP - 110 grain BTHP - 2570 fps / 1613 ft lbs at muzzle; 2106 fps/ 1083 ft lbs at 200 yards; 30.4" drop at 400 yards 300 BLK - 123 grain FMJ - 2315 fps / 1462 ft lbs at muzzle; 1729 fps / 816 ft lbs at 200 yards; 46.7" drop at 400 yards 30-30 Win – 150 grain SP - 2270 fps / 1716 ft lbs at muzzle; 1705 fps / 968 ft lbs at 200 yards Notes/Takeaways - I used data from 16"-18" barrels for all cartridges, which explains why the velocities shown above for certain cartridges (the 5.56 service loads, for example) are slightly lower than the usual published velocities. The 25-223 gives a meaningful increase in delivered energy over even the hottest .223/5.56 loads at all ranges. The 25-223 holds its own extremely well against the 6.8 SPC, especially at range. At worst the 25-223 gives up 10-15% in terms of energy. At best the 25-223 is equivalent or slightly better in terms of external ballistics. No meaningful difference in trajectories at 400 yards between standard loadings of the .223/5.56, 25-223, and 6.8 SPC. The 25-223 gives up basically nothing to supersonic 300 BLK loadings, and offers clear advantage at range.
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NC, USA
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Posted: 2/2/2011 9:06:26 AM EDT
[#6]
I should know better than to read these post before my morning coffee! Too many numbers and the type is so small.
Thanks for running and posting the numbers. I've looked at one load at a time but never had them all in front of me a once. Any way you look at it, the 25/223 gives a nice increase in power over the mother cartridge the .223. The REALLY nice part is that the 25/223 only requires a barrel change and nothing more. Surplus brass makes this a winner all the way around. The only drawback right now is the shortage of dies but time will correct that. Lets face it, the companies didn't know to plan for an increase in interest. |
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Posted: 2/2/2011 9:57:59 AM EDT
[#7]
Originally Posted By precisionpredators:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dies I ran 10 cases through a 223 die then a 25wssm die, I primed, loaded, and then used my 25wssm to seat the bullet. I burned all 10 off.......positive feed, fire, and function. No problems........ just adjust the 25wssm sizing die to where it opens the neck up only +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ So, if we were to use this system it would only work with first time loading of the .25/223 unless I am mistaken. Please correct me if I'm wrong but after the first firing we need to resize the case body again and using the .223 sizing die for the body would either crush the neck or force it back down in size, then if it wasn't crushed, we would have to open the neck back up to .257, this will weaken the brass severely. Would it be possible to drill out the neck portion of the .223 sizing die so the neck isn't touched and still have the decapper reinstalled? Then use the 25WSSM neck sizing die for the neck? I've been reloading forever but this is the first time I've loaded a non-standard caliber and have always had the die sets for each caliber. I use a Dillon 550. Until a proper die set is available, I'm thinking I would need a 2nd tool head to process this caliber? One to do the the sizing in 2 stages (size body and deprime in first and size neck in second, 3rd/4th stages left empty and sized cases just eject into bin) and then one to do the reloading in 3/4 stages (prime in first/no sizing die, charge in second, seat in third and possibly crimp in fourth)? Is it possible for someone w/o machine shop access to drill out the neck portion of the .223 die? Let me know if I am over thinking this? Was there a group buy for die sets that I missed and can possibly get in on? Thanks |
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Posted: 2/2/2011 10:35:23 AM EDT
[#8]
Originally Posted By vtmactech:
Originally Posted By precisionpredators:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dies I ran 10 cases through a 223 die then a 25wssm die, I primed, loaded, and then used my 25wssm to seat the bullet. I burned all 10 off.......positive feed, fire, and function. No problems........ just adjust the 25wssm sizing die to where it opens the neck up only +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ So, if we were to use this system it would only work with first time loading of the .25/223 unless I am mistaken. Please correct me if I'm wrong but after the first firing we need to resize the case body again and using the .223 sizing die for the body would either crush the neck or force it back down in size, then if it wasn't crushed, we would have to open the neck back up to .257, this will weaken the brass severely. Would it be possible to drill out the neck portion of the .223 sizing die so the neck isn't touched and still have the decapper reinstalled? Then use the 25WSSM neck sizing die for the neck? I've been reloading forever but this is the first time I've loaded a non-standard caliber and have always had the die sets for each caliber. I use a Dillon 550. Until a proper die set is available, I'm thinking I would need a 2nd tool head to process this caliber? One to do the the sizing in 2 stages (size body and deprime in first and size neck in second, 3rd/4th stages left empty and sized cases just eject into bin) and then one to do the reloading in 3/4 stages (prime in first/no sizing die, charge in second, seat in third and possibly crimp in fourth)? Is it possible for someone w/o machine shop access to drill out the neck portion of the .223 die? Let me know if I am over thinking this? Was there a group buy for die sets that I missed and can possibly get in on? Thanks vtmatech, Here's my plan. I'm going to open up my Redding body sizer die so that it won't touch the neck of (the now .25 cal) case (It will still work for .223). Then I'm going to buy a neck sizer die for 25wssm and use it to resize the case necks. Midway has some 25wssm dies on sale or clearance––see my post from yesterday. My original plan was to buy bushings and a redding S-type so I could resize case necks to either 223 or 25. (Two Ti bushings from Redding, however, cost as much as one neck sizing die) and I find myself using at least 2 bushings per caliber to keep case neck tension appropriate, depending on brass, times fired, etc. So, 1 S-type die and 4 bushings= real money quickly. So, I think using the 25wssm die for the neck is the way to go. 320pf says a standard 223 seater die will work (maybe he can explain how he sets it up), the 25wssm setup looks great, and I'm going to use an extra RCBS .223 competition seating die with the appropriate 25 cal internals to seat mine. Thanks precisionpredators for the insight re the 25wssm dies! |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 2/2/2011 8:31:01 PM EDT
[#9]
Originally Posted By vtmactech:
So, if we were to use this system it would only work with first time loading of the .25/223 unless I am mistaken. Please correct me if I'm wrong but after the first firing we need to resize the case body again and using the .223 sizing die for the body would either crush the neck or force it back down in size, then if it wasn't crushed, we would have to open the neck back up to .257, this will weaken the brass severely. Would it be possible to drill out the neck portion of the .223 sizing die so the neck isn't touched and still have the decapper reinstalled? Then use the 25WSSM neck sizing die for the neck? I've been reloading forever but this is the first time I've loaded a non-standard caliber and have always had the die sets for each caliber. I use a Dillon 550. Until a proper die set is available, I'm thinking I would need a 2nd tool head to process this caliber? One to do the the sizing in 2 stages (size body and deprime in first and size neck in second, 3rd/4th stages left empty and sized cases just eject into bin) and then one to do the reloading in 3/4 stages (prime in first/no sizing die, charge in second, seat in third and possibly crimp in fourth)? Is it possible for someone w/o machine shop access to drill out the neck portion of the .223 die? Let me know if I am over thinking this? Was there a group buy for die sets that I missed and can possibly get in on? Thanks Take the guts out of your 223 die and it becomes a body die. I run these on my wssm loads to bump the shoulders back to get good AR feed and function. If I was going to do this as my primary and I did not have 25AR dies I would personally use my 6x45 Redding dies. I will test using my 6x45 as a seater die for the 25AR. I will also test the rounds I have already fired to resize them using the 223 body die and then running it back up through my 25wssm to size the neck. I have no doubt all these variables will work. Lee make a universal de-capping die, I use mine sometimes on cases that are nasty and I want to clean them before running them up into my sizing die. Then I throw them in my tumbler to clean so I do not run crap up into my dies. I have 3 progressive presses and 3 single stage presses. One of the single stage presses is an old Lee cheap single stage I have had for 25yrs. A new one from Midway costs $28.00. If you were to do several hundred pieces of brass that would keep you going for a little while till the die issue is solved. I have not heard back from Redding yet on the brass I sent them, I expected this as they were sent right after shot show and I am sure big orders are pending on other projects with them. |
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Posted: 2/2/2011 10:35:02 PM EDT
[#10]
CH4D had ONE 25AR sizing die and I bought it. However, they did not have a seater die. It has been mentioned that the 223 seating die will work, but does that require any mods, or have to be set up a specific way???
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NY, USA
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Posted: 2/2/2011 11:03:19 PM EDT
[#11]
I have used a 223 seater die to seat bullets in the 25-223AR without any issues. You can not crimp the case of course but I do not usually shoot bullets that have a canular so I do not crimp anyway.
320pf |
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Posted: 2/2/2011 11:56:45 PM EDT
[#12]
Originally Posted By chewbacca:
CH4D had ONE 25AR sizing die and I bought it. However, they did not have a seater die. It has been mentioned that the 223 seating die will work, but does that require any mods, or have to be set up a specific way??? Did you tell them to get moving with another batch of dies? I just can't fathom what's taking so long when they have cash-in-hand customers waiting... Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 2/3/2011 6:18:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Originally Posted By wombat25:
Originally Posted By chewbacca:
CH4D had ONE 25AR sizing die and I bought it. However, they did not have a seater die. It has been mentioned that the 223 seating die will work, but does that require any mods, or have to be set up a specific way??? Did you tell them to get moving with another batch of dies? I just can't fathom what's taking so long when they have cash-in-hand customers waiting... Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Probably something called a production schedule. I'm guessing even though they have customers with cash in hand waiting on .25-223 dies they have more customers waiting on other calibers. |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 2/3/2011 7:05:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: precisionpredators]
[#14]
Originally Posted By chewbacca:
CH4D had ONE 25AR sizing die and I bought it. However, they did not have a seater die. It has been mentioned that the 223 seating die will work, but does that require any mods, or have to be set up a specific way??? A 25wssm seater die should seat and crimp it for you with no problem. You need to run it up there slow until it makes contact with the seater plug as the body of the die is wider than a 223 case. A sizer die in hand you are in business with no worries. |
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Posted: 2/5/2011 8:36:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Originally Posted By VaFish:
Originally Posted By wombat25:
Originally Posted By chewbacca:
CH4D had ONE 25AR sizing die and I bought it. However, they did not have a seater die. It has been mentioned that the 223 seating die will work, but does that require any mods, or have to be set up a specific way??? Did you tell them to get moving with another batch of dies? I just can't fathom what's taking so long when they have cash-in-hand customers waiting... Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Probably something called a production schedule. I'm guessing even though they have customers with cash in hand waiting on .25-223 dies they have more customers waiting on other calibers. I got cash in hand and would like to have a barrel before the cash starts burning my pants. 
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NY, USA
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Posted: 2/5/2011 10:00:29 PM EDT
[#16]
pm sent
320pf |
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Posted: 2/6/2011 3:48:36 PM EDT
[#17]
Originally Posted By 320pf:
pm sent 320pf Got your email. Thanks. The PM system has been less than 100% for receiving messages. |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 2/6/2011 4:31:37 PM EDT
[#18]
Ok, getting ready to start working up 87gr Speer TNT's. I saw some load data around in here for it.
I will be using 10X, RL7. H335. H322 but mainly focusing on the 10X and RL7. It seems about 25grs is the upper level of safe zone. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 2/6/2011 9:06:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: VaFish]
[#19]
I did some loads with the 87 gr Hornady Spire Point and H335, they are back a few pages.
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KS, USA
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Posted: 2/6/2011 10:24:26 PM EDT
[#20]
Well I loaded 40 rds of Speer 87gr TNT's using 10X @ 24.5gr. Supposed to snow tomorrow night but maybe I can get a couple chrono'd after work tomorrow before then.
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NH, USA
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Posted: 2/7/2011 9:55:21 AM EDT
[#21]
OK, here is some load data for your 25-223 AR Rifle:
Standard Reload Disclaimer: Use @ your own Risk Rifle Load Results: Cartridge Name: 25-223 Wildcat AR-15 Rifle Bullet Name:. 257 87-GR TNTHP SPEER Bullet Weight: 87grains Bullet Diameter: 0.257in Bullet Length: 0.96in Bullet BC: 0.337 Section Density: 0.188 Case Name:25-223 Remington Full Case Capacity: 30.04 grains water Net Case Capacity: 24.803 grains water Case Length: 1.7 in Est. Overall Cartridge Length: 2.26 in Seating Depth: 0.4 in Rifle Name:AR-15 Rifle Platform Barrel Length to Bolt Face: 18 in Effective Barrel Length: 16.7 in Barrel to Case Volume Ratio: 9.7 Cartridge Temperature: 70°F Powder:RL-7 Load**********Charge*******Charge*******Muzzle********Chamber Density*******Weight*******to Bullet******Velocity******Pressure %*************grains********Wt Ratio*****ft/sec********CUP ____________________________________________________________ 80************19.8**********0.228*********2234*********36220********Optimal 85************21.1**********0.243*********2381*********40976********OK 90************22.3**********0.256*********2516*********45366********OK 95*******23.6**********0.271*********2663*********50122********Near/Max.Pressure. 100**********24.8**********0.285*********2799********* 54512********High Press. |
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Posted: 2/9/2011 6:40:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Ok, I tried a couple loads of AA1680 with an 87gr HotCore today and I'm a bit perplexed. I've been using Hornady 100gr SP and was getting velocities that were low using the same powder charges as others were using with 100gr bullets but I chalked it up to the differences in the bullets themselves. I decided to try a bullet/powder combo today that already had some established data. When I shot the 87gr HotCores I some odd results.
Here's what I got: 87gr Speer HotCore, LC .223 parent brass, Fed 205 primer, 1.7" trim length, 2.25" loaded length, 14 Deg F, AA1680 powder: 20.5gr........2503fps 21.0gr........2507fps 320pf's data has the following for these loads: 20.5gr........2555fps 21.0gr........2658fps The 20.5gr load is close enough to 320pf's data (about 50fps) that I'd consider that to be barrel differences, break in (I've got 110 rounds through my barrel), chronograph calibration, temperature, brass, etc but he got 100fps more going to 21.0gr and my average stayed fairly static. Other interesting things were that my 21.0gr load had 2 cases with light ejector swipes. 320pf's data goes up to 23.0gr of AA1680 but I'm not inclined to push it anywhere close to that if I'm already getting ejector swipes. Also, the velocities of my two loads were very close together but the first load was very consistent (ES of 14 and SD of 5) while the second was all over the place (ES of 104 and SD of 43). Both were 5 shot strings. Any ideas as to what could be causing my issues? I've going to try a different loaded overall length to make sure I'm not too close to the lands initially but I know the bullet isn't contacting them as I can cycle a round in and out of the chamber without any scuffs on the bullet or any resistance. Not sure what may be causing this. I do plan to shoot a few more longer strings of these loads to see if things settle down as I know 5 shot strings don't provide alot of data points but I'm open to any suggestions. |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 2/9/2011 7:37:17 PM EDT
[#23]
I had a similar situation w/ my 6X45; It had a less than a great chamber finish, It was cut slightly short,gasport was to narrow and it didn't like AA1680...seems like 20.0 to 21.5 was the limit w/ regards
to pressure w/ 87-100 grain bullets. Originally Posted By Altair:
Ok, I tried a couple loads of AA1680 with an 87gr HotCore today and I'm a bit perplexed. I've been using Hornady 100gr SP and was getting velocities that were low using the same powder charges as others were using with 100gr bullets but I chalked it up to the differences in the bullets themselves. I decided to try a bullet/powder combo today that already had some established data. When I shot the 87gr HotCores I some odd results. Here's what I got: 87gr Speer HotCore, LC .223 parent brass, Fed 205 primer, 1.7" trim length, 2.25" loaded length, 14 Deg F, AA1680 powder: 20.5gr........2503fps 21.0gr........2507fps 320pf's data has the following for these loads: 20.5gr........2555fps 21.0gr........2658fps The 20.5gr load is close enough to 320pf's data (about 50fps) that I'd consider that to be barrel differences, break in (I've got 110 rounds through my barrel), chronograph calibration, temperature, brass, etc but he got 100fps more going to 21.0gr and my average stayed fairly static. Other interesting things were that my 21.0gr load had 2 cases with light ejector swipes. 320pf's data goes up to 23.0gr of AA1680 but I'm not inclined to push it anywhere close to that if I'm already getting ejector swipes. Also, the velocities of my two loads were very close together but the first load was very consistent (ES of 14 and SD of 5) while the second was all over the place (ES of 104 and SD of 43). Both were 5 shot strings. Any ideas as to what could be causing my issues? I've going to try a different loaded overall length to make sure I'm not too close to the lands initially but I know the bullet isn't contacting them as I can cycle a round in and out of the chamber without any scuffs on the bullet or any resistance. Not sure what may be causing this. I do plan to shoot a few more longer strings of these loads to see if things settle down as I know 5 shot strings don't provide alot of data points but I'm open to any suggestions. |
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Posted: 2/9/2011 8:11:16 PM EDT
[#24]
Originally Posted By Dr69er:
I had a similar situation w/ my 6X45; It had a less than a great chamber finish, It was cut slightly short,gasport was to narrow and it didn't like AA1680...seems like 20.0 to 21.5 was the limit w/ regards to pressure w/ 87-100 grain bullets. The gas port is definitely not too small as this rifle will cycle anything, including very light loads. It did have a burr at the gas port when I first got it but that was gone after the first round down the tube. I'm pretty sure the chamber isn't short either as I had to adjust the resizing die out a bit, it was pushing the shoulder back too far. As for the rough chamber, I don't thing that's an issue but I don't have a scope to take a close look either. Thanks for the suggestions and I'll take a closer look at the chamber. |
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Posted: 2/10/2011 9:47:57 AM EDT
[#25]
Originally Posted By Altair:
Ok, I tried a couple loads of AA1680 with an 87gr HotCore today and I'm a bit perplexed. I've been using Hornady 100gr SP and was getting velocities that were low using the same powder charges as others were using with 100gr bullets but I chalked it up to the differences in the bullets themselves. I decided to try a bullet/powder combo today that already had some established data. When I shot the 87gr HotCores I some odd results. Here's what I got: 87gr Speer HotCore, LC .223 parent brass, Fed 205 primer, 1.7" trim length, 2.25" loaded length, 14 Deg F, AA1680 powder: 20.5gr........2503fps 21.0gr........2507fps 320pf's data has the following for these loads: 20.5gr........2555fps 21.0gr........2658fps The 20.5gr load is close enough to 320pf's data (about 50fps) that I'd consider that to be barrel differences, break in (I've got 110 rounds through my barrel), chronograph calibration, temperature, brass, etc but he got 100fps more going to 21.0gr and my average stayed fairly static. Other interesting things were that my 21.0gr load had 2 cases with light ejector swipes. 320pf's data goes up to 23.0gr of AA1680 but I'm not inclined to push it anywhere close to that if I'm already getting ejector swipes. Also, the velocities of my two loads were very close together but the first load was very consistent (ES of 14 and SD of 5) while the second was all over the place (ES of 104 and SD of 43). Both were 5 shot strings. Any ideas as to what could be causing my issues? I've going to try a different loaded overall length to make sure I'm not too close to the lands initially but I know the bullet isn't contacting them as I can cycle a round in and out of the chamber without any scuffs on the bullet or any resistance. Not sure what may be causing this. I do plan to shoot a few more longer strings of these loads to see if things settle down as I know 5 shot strings don't provide alot of data points but I'm open to any suggestions. I have had issues with 1680 in my 6.5x1.6. It can spike enough that I stoped using it. I was running 21g 1680 with the 100g Nosler BT. Getting 2350fps. Went to 21.5g, recieved 2700fps & a case that would scare the hell out of anyone. Sorry but I just dont play with it for max loads. If you want to continue with it try an H3 buffer. |
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Posted: 2/10/2011 10:30:07 AM EDT
[#26]
Originally Posted By ronaldmwilliams:
Originally Posted By Altair:
Ok, I tried a couple loads of AA1680 with an 87gr HotCore today and I'm a bit perplexed. I've been using Hornady 100gr SP and was getting velocities that were low using the same powder charges as others were using with 100gr bullets but I chalked it up to the differences in the bullets themselves. I decided to try a bullet/powder combo today that already had some established data. When I shot the 87gr HotCores I some odd results. Here's what I got: 87gr Speer HotCore, LC .223 parent brass, Fed 205 primer, 1.7" trim length, 2.25" loaded length, 14 Deg F, AA1680 powder: 20.5gr........2503fps 21.0gr........2507fps 320pf's data has the following for these loads: 20.5gr........2555fps 21.0gr........2658fps The 20.5gr load is close enough to 320pf's data (about 50fps) that I'd consider that to be barrel differences, break in (I've got 110 rounds through my barrel), chronograph calibration, temperature, brass, etc but he got 100fps more going to 21.0gr and my average stayed fairly static. Other interesting things were that my 21.0gr load had 2 cases with light ejector swipes. 320pf's data goes up to 23.0gr of AA1680 but I'm not inclined to push it anywhere close to that if I'm already getting ejector swipes. Also, the velocities of my two loads were very close together but the first load was very consistent (ES of 14 and SD of 5) while the second was all over the place (ES of 104 and SD of 43). Both were 5 shot strings. Any ideas as to what could be causing my issues? I've going to try a different loaded overall length to make sure I'm not too close to the lands initially but I know the bullet isn't contacting them as I can cycle a round in and out of the chamber without any scuffs on the bullet or any resistance. Not sure what may be causing this. I do plan to shoot a few more longer strings of these loads to see if things settle down as I know 5 shot strings don't provide alot of data points but I'm open to any suggestions. I have had issues with 1680 in my 6.5x1.6. It can spike enough that I stoped using it. I was running 21g 1680 with the 100g Nosler BT. Getting 2350fps. Went to 21.5g, recieved 2700fps & a case that would scare the hell out of anyone. Sorry but I just dont play with it for max loads. If you want to continue with it try an H3 buffer. I spoke with 320pf last night and he felt the same way. It seems that 1680 is a bit erratic in this or similar cases. I'll try something else and see what I get. Thanks. |
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Posted: 2/10/2011 3:26:23 PM EDT
[#27]
After getting some input on the 1680 I decided to just try another powder today. I looked through the powders that have been tried and none are available locally except the 1680 and 4227 (both on the fast side) but I did come up with some H4198. IMR4198 had been tested already but has a slightly different burn rate. I tried a few loads and was much happier with my results. Here's what I got:
87gr Speer HotCore, H4198 21.5gr........2477fps 22.0gr........2536fps 22.5gr........2603fps 23.0gr........2661fps Good linear increases in velocity and no pressure signs. I think this will be a much better way to go. I'll probably go ahead and try TAC with this bullet as well since I have so much of it, but I suspect it will be too slow to get good velocity numbers. |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 2/11/2011 11:11:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: precisionpredators]
[#28]
Very early testing of the Speer 87gr TNT are very promising. They seem to shoot very accurately using RL10X. I plan to fire about more tomorrow and hunt coyotes on Sunday. I did shoot a possum out in my back field with them and it was not real impressive at all. Punched right through without opening up it seems,I did not look like the normal wound they usually cause.. In my other 25cal guns they are devastating. I wonder if its just not enough speed on them?
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VA, USA
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Posted: 2/12/2011 9:15:19 AM EDT
[#29]
Originally Posted By precisionpredators:
Very early testing of the Speer 87gr TNT are very promising. They seem to shoot very accurately using RL10X. I plan to fire about more tomorrow and hunt coyotes on Sunday. I did shoot a possum out in my back field with them and it was not real impressive at all. Punched right through without opening up it seems,I did not look like the normal wound they usually cause.. In my other 25cal guns they are devastating. I wonder if its just not enough speed on them? May want to contact Speer and see what the velocity range is on them. Before I started using the Hornady 87 gr load for deer hunting (haven't shot one yet) I contacted Hornady and asked them about using that bullet at ~2500 fps muzzle velocity, they said it would expand reliably down to 1500 fps. |
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Posted: 2/12/2011 12:09:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Altair]
[#30]
Originally Posted By VaFish:
Originally Posted By precisionpredators:
Very early testing of the Speer 87gr TNT are very promising. They seem to shoot very accurately using RL10X. I plan to fire about more tomorrow and hunt coyotes on Sunday. I did shoot a possum out in my back field with them and it was not real impressive at all. Punched right through without opening up it seems,I did not look like the normal wound they usually cause.. In my other 25cal guns they are devastating. I wonder if its just not enough speed on them? May want to contact Speer and see what the velocity range is on them. Before I started using the Hornady 87 gr load for deer hunting (haven't shot one yet) I contacted Hornady and asked them about using that bullet at ~2500 fps muzzle velocity, they said it would expand reliably down to 1500 fps. 1500fps is very good for the velocity window of this cartridge. I just sent Speer a message asking them about their 87gr Hot-Core bullet, their 87gr TNT, and their 100gr SPBT so I'll post the answers when I get a response. ETA: Hornady lists the BC of their 87gr SP as .322 so if it will expand down to 1500fps and you have a muzzle velocity of 2700fps or so (a bit conservative I think) it should theoretically expand beyond 450 yards. Of course, it will have dropped 45+ inches if you have a 100 yard zero with an AR, so I wouldn't recommend hunting with it at that range, but that is still impressive. I wonder if that means it will come apart at close range? Did they give a max velocity for it to work reliably? |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 2/12/2011 4:29:00 PM EDT
[#31]
Originally Posted By Altair:
I wonder if that means it will come apart at close range? Did they give a max velocity for it to work reliably? I didn't ask for a max velocity, but I did give them the approximate velocity of 2550 FPS and they said it should work fine for deer. Not sure about higher velocity like a .25-06 at closer ranges. |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 2/12/2011 4:52:17 PM EDT
[#32]
Yesterday I did email them and tell them the story and ask about expansion velocities. My 6x45 AR using 70gr TNT's I know expand and fragment at 2700. Killed several coyotes with it and it was a nasty hateful looking wound. SO I was just surprised at the 87gr TNT. Hopefully if all goes well tomorrow I will find out for sure. I just fired 20 more of the TNT's and the grouping is the best so far. The cases look fine also as I was slightly concerned about the 24.5gr of RL10X I am using and pressures. I have a chrony that I could check the speed on and may....
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KS, USA
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Posted: 2/12/2011 9:16:49 PM EDT
[#33]
Ok I Chrony'd the load.......2663fps. I started getting some flattened primers and had 1 broken case that I extracted. I backed off the load some. Some primers were flattened, most were not. Here is the funny thing about these hot loads...24.5gr RL10X 87gr TNT's is a very accurate load in my weapon. Bullet holes touching....like a 10 shot group of them.
I think in hot weather this load could be a serious problem. |
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Posted: 2/13/2011 12:02:22 AM EDT
[#34]
Originally Posted By precisionpredators:
Ok I Chrony'd the load.......2663fps. I started getting some flattened primers and had 1 broken case that I extracted. I backed off the load some. Some primers were flattened, most were not. Here is the funny thing about these hot loads...24.5gr RL10X 87gr TNT's is a very accurate load in my weapon. Bullet holes touching....like a 10 shot group of them. I think in hot weather this load could be a serious problem. Since some of the data shows 2500fps being normal and 2600fps possible with 100gr bullets and some 87gr loads at 2800fps I'm a bit surprised you are getting pressure signs at 2660. Perhaps RL10X isn't the best powder for speed but if it is accurate it is still fast enough. |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 2/14/2011 8:00:57 PM EDT
[#35]
I thought I would post the reply I received from SPEER about the TNT bullets: I find it kind of weak as an explanation or he is saying unless you are over 3000fps they might fail to perform.
Dave: you're running 1200 fps slower than the Max and the more speed you can provide the bullet the better expansion you can expect. Most all of our loads will exceed 3000 fps for the TNT bullets, so you're ~500 fps under even the mid-250 Savage loads. Like in flying, with the TNT (inside the limits) "airspeed's your buddy". Shoot Straight! Coy Getman 2299 Snake River Ave. Lewiston, ID 83501 CCI/Speer Sr. Technical Coordinator |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 2/14/2011 8:18:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: precisionpredators]
[#36]
There is a very detailed 6x45 data posted on another site that should give a good area to work with on the 25AR for load data. I plan to abandon the RL10X and focus next on BL-C2 powder with the Speer 87gr TNT.
Of course standard disclaimer.........don't try this at home and if you do it is at your own risk. 87gr. Bullet / 6x45 Load Data AA-2495BR 23.7 2535 Varget 26.5 2800 52000 PSI BL-C(2) 27.5 2765 49140 CUP BL-C(2) 26.0 2545 BL-C(2) 26.0 2690 BL-C(2) 27.0 2833 H-335 24.0 2424 IMR-8208XBR 24.0 2650 52000 PSI H-4895 25.7 2780 49075 CUP Benchmark 23.5 2520 52000 PSI H-322 23.0 2655 48000 CUP H-4895 24.5 2489 TAC 24.3 2630 52000 PSI VV-N133 22.9 2495 52000 PSI VV-N135 24.5 2460 52000 PSI VV-N140 26.5 2660 52000 PSI N201 22.9 2310 52000 PSI N202 26.1 2805 52000 PSI RL-10X 20.1 2300 52000 PSI 88gr. Bullet / 6x45 Load Data Varget 26.4 2790 52000 PSI Varget 26.4 2925 52900 PSI Most accurate MAX load tested so far. 0.65” at 100m 5 shots, 1.4” at 200m 5 shots, 3.90” at 600m 5 shots. BL-C(2) 27.3 2755 49140 CUP BL-C(2) 27.0 2822 Mild pressure signs 2.512 H-335 24.8 2710 49200 CUP IMR-8208XBR 23.9 2625 52000 PSI H-4895 25.6 2770 49075 CUP Benchmark 23.4 2500 52000 PSI H-322 22.9 2640 48000 CUP TAC 24.2 2610 52000 PSI VV-N133 22.8 2455 52000 PSI VV-N135 24.3 2460 52000 PSI VV-N140 26.3 2650 52000 PSI N201 22.7 2285 52000 PSI N202 26.0 2795 52000 PSI N202 26.0 2890 53550 PSI RL-10X 19.8 2250 52000 PSI |
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Posted: 2/14/2011 8:49:00 PM EDT
[#37]
Originally Posted By precisionpredators:
I thought I would post the reply I received from SPEER about the TNT bullets: I find it kind of weak as an explanation or he is saying unless you are over 3000fps they might fail to perform. Dave: you're running 1200 fps slower than the Max and the more speed you can provide the bullet the better expansion you can expect. Most all of our loads will exceed 3000 fps for the TNT bullets, so you're ~500 fps under even the mid-250 Savage loads. Like in flying, with the TNT (inside the limits) "airspeed's your buddy". Shoot Straight! Coy Getman 2299 Snake River Ave. Lewiston, ID 83501 CCI/Speer Sr. Technical Coordinator I received an equally useless response from the same guy. The best/easiest way to find the where a bullet will perform isto look to the load data for the caliber you're loading. We often findthose that want to load Bullet "X" in Caliber "Y" and find there is noload data for the combination. The reasons for no data can be many fromtoo much velocity from the caliber to too fast a twist rate and so on.So rather than go from bullet to bullet on performance the smartestanswer is to get a # 14 Speer manual and follow the listed load data forthe caliber/bullet/component combinations you have. Shoot Straight! Coy Getman 2299 Snake River Ave. Lewiston, ID 83501 CCI/Speer Sr. Technical Coordinator (866) 286-7436 |
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Posted: 2/14/2011 9:01:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Altair]
[#38]
Here was my reply, hopefully I'll get some useful information:
A reloading manual will not help as the caliber in question is a wildcat and won't show up in any manual. Also, even if info exsisted for it in your manual it still would not provide an accurate range in which the projectile would still work as designed if I don't have an accurate lower velocity threshold and and accurate BC to run through a ballistics calculator. For example, a Barnes 80gr TTSX will go about 2900fps from a 16" barrel with this wildcat. The lower expansion threshold for this bullet is 1900fps and the BC is .316, meaning the bullet will expand out to 350 yards. I know the 87gr Hot Core, for example, can go 2800fps from this same gun with the same 16" barrel. I also know the BC is .300 but what I don't know is what velocity the bullet will reliably perform on game. Is there any way you could provide this information? I would also like the same information on the 87gr TNT and the 100gr SPBT. |
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Posted: 2/15/2011 11:08:20 AM EDT
[#39]
Originally Posted By precisionpredators:
Very early testing of the Speer 87gr TNT are very promising. They seem to shoot very accurately using RL10X. I plan to fire about more tomorrow and hunt coyotes on Sunday. I did shoot a possum out in my back field with them and it was not real impressive at all. Punched right through without opening up it seems,I did not look like the normal wound they usually cause.. In my other 25cal guns they are devastating. I wonder if its just not enough speed on them? The vamint bullets in these calibers are designed to be driven beyond what we can achieve. I was running the 6.5cal 100g Sierra varminter this weekend. I wanted to see how they would do at 2350fps.(this is max speed for my 12" 6.5x1.6) I normaly get headshots but this one just keept moving. Angling slightly toward me the bullet impacted just in front of the left shoulder went through the oposit shoulderblade lodging just under the hide on the right side. It tore through the front edge of the lungs & mabe the carotid artery. Aprox penitration was 12-14". She went 20yds & colapsed. Recovered bullet was 79g & half its length. Impact range, 25yds. Hog, 130-140# |
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Posted: 2/15/2011 12:08:12 PM EDT
[#40]
Originally Posted By ronaldmwilliams:
Originally Posted By precisionpredators:
Very early testing of the Speer 87gr TNT are very promising. They seem to shoot very accurately using RL10X. I plan to fire about more tomorrow and hunt coyotes on Sunday. I did shoot a possum out in my back field with them and it was not real impressive at all. Punched right through without opening up it seems,I did not look like the normal wound they usually cause.. In my other 25cal guns they are devastating. I wonder if its just not enough speed on them? The vamint bullets in these calibers are designed to be driven beyond what we can achieve. I was running the 6.5cal 100g Sierra varminter this weekend. I wanted to see how they would do at 2350fps.(this is max speed for my 12" 6.5x1.6) I normaly get headshots but this one just keept moving. Angling slightly toward me the bullet impacted just in front of the left shoulder went through the oposit shoulderblade lodging just under the hide on the right side. It tore through the front edge of the lungs & mabe the carotid artery. Aprox penitration was 12-14". She went 20yds & colapsed. Recovered bullet was 79g & half its length. Impact range, 25yds. Hog, 130-140# I think others, like myself, are hoping that some of the varmint bullets in this caliber will behave less like varmint bullets and more like an expanding bullet at the lower velocities achieved in the .25-223. For example, I know that bullets like the .308" 110gr V-Max are too explosive at 308 Win velocities and up but seem to perform well in get tests at 300BLK velocities. I'm hoping some of the lighter .257" bullets at .25-223 speeds will perform like the heavier .224" bullets at 5.56 speeds. Only time and testing will tell, but this is my hope. It would appear that the TNT does not do this, unfortunately. |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 2/15/2011 8:41:48 PM EDT
[#41]
I wanted to ask a question about case trimming.
I have 2 different trimmers that have failed me so I was looking for a an easy way to trim these to length. My Lyman and Smartloader trimmer both failed to hold onto cases after a couple of hundred. Very disappointed in the quality and Lyman suggested I buy new parts on a new trimmer with about 200 cases through it. SO since I am big on figuring out work arounds I have another one. I have a Lee 25wssm case trimmer I used on a few re-sized 25AR cases. When I use the Lee in a drill it makes very quick work of this problem. I cuts the case down to 1.66in. This is 0.03 less than I had the Lyman set up to trim as I had it set up to trim the cases down to 1.69in. It looks like it will work but I wanted to hear from some who has cut these down to get their input on if they believe this is viable. More than likely not matter what I am going to go with this, I just think it will work. The neck I am hoping has enough brass to hold tension on the bullet, it looks like it should. The Lee 25wssm trimmer is so basic, cheap, and quick when used in a drill. Thoughts.......... |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 2/15/2011 9:07:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: VaFish]
[#42]
I use a modified .25 WSM Lee case trimmer.
I took one of the cases from 320pf to use as a guide, cleaned the threads real good and degreased them as well, put some JB weld on the threads and screwed it in until the cutter started to touch the case. I think you could also use some small washers or shims on the trimmer as well. 
I've also used a .223 Lee case trimmer that I just filed a bit off the tip that goes through the primer hole. I trim the cases first, then resize them. That works pretty well, but I stopped doing that when I modified the .25 WSM trimmer. |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 2/15/2011 9:18:07 PM EDT
[#43]
Originally Posted By precisionpredators:
I wanted to ask a question about case trimming. I have 2 different trimmers that have failed me so I was looking for a an easy way to trim these to length. My Lyman and Smartloader trimmer both failed to hold onto cases after a couple of hundred. Very disappointed in the quality and Lyman suggested I buy new parts on a new trimmer with about 200 cases through it. SO since I am big on figuring out work arounds I have another one. I have a Lee 25wssm case trimmer I used on a few re-sized 25AR cases. When I use the Lee in a drill it makes very quick work of this problem. I cuts the case down to 1.66in. This is 0.03 less than I had the Lyman set up to trim as I had it set up to trim the cases down to 1.69in. It looks like it will work but I wanted to hear from some who has cut these down to get their input on if they believe this is viable. More than likely not matter what I am going to go with this, I just think it will work. The neck I am hoping has enough brass to hold tension on the bullet, it looks like it should. The Lee 25wssm trimmer is so basic, cheap, and quick when used in a drill. Thoughts.......... You should be OK with the neck grip @ 1.66X", just test it against your reloading bench/table with some hand/palm pressure before you fire the rounds... I have tried my 6.5mm AR-TCU with as little as .125" case neck and it still held strong... |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 2/15/2011 9:29:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: precisionpredators]
[#44]
Thanks.........I am going to break out my 25-20 factory crimper and crimp the 25AR rounds also....just to be sure.
I re-size then trim my cases, debur and chaffer them. To be honest most of the time I do not clean out the primer pocket if it looks ok. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 2/15/2011 10:01:38 PM EDT
[#45]
Here is how I trim my brass. I usually do 200 to 500 pieces at a time. This is an example of making 300-221 Fireball brass from 223 REM brass.
Here is the link I hope this helps 320pf 
Using a Forster power trim die to make 300-221 Fireball brass |
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Posted: 2/15/2011 10:55:56 PM EDT
[#46]
I bought this but I haven't used it yet.
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KS, USA
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Posted: 2/15/2011 11:45:38 PM EDT
[#47]
I am indeed jealous.......I want one but ....... |
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Posted: 2/17/2011 11:48:15 AM EDT
[#48]
Originally Posted By Altair:
Here was my reply, hopefully I'll get some useful information: A reloading manual will not help as the caliber in question is a wildcat and won't show up in any manual. Also, even if info exsisted for it in your manual it still would not provide an accurate range in which the projectile would still work as designed if I don't have an accurate lower velocity threshold and and accurate BC to run through a ballistics calculator. For example, a Barnes 80gr TTSX will go about 2900fps from a 16" barrel with this wildcat. The lower expansion threshold for this bullet is 1900fps and the BC is .316, meaning the bullet will expand out to 350 yards. I know the 87gr Hot Core, for example, can go 2800fps from this same gun with the same 16" barrel. I also know the BC is .300 but what I don't know is what velocity the bullet will reliably perform on game. Is there any way you could provide this information? I would also like the same information on the 87gr TNT and the 100gr SPBT. Speer's response: You’ve discovered the problem with wildcat’s. While the 87 gr ( #1241) bullet is not as fragile as the 87 gr TNT (# 1246) it is on the light side for deep penetration, the reduced velocity will help penetration. My concern is not under expansion, rather it is too much expansion and little penetration. I’d expect the 100 gr # 1405 to provide both the expansion and the penetration you desire to 350 yds as you’re in the same regime as that of the 250 Savage as distance increases hit the shoulder to aid in expansion. Coy I don't share his confidence in the 100gr SPBT out to 350 yards. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2011 6:23:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Graycard]
[#49]
Since you're talking about bullets I thought you might like to see these.
After a good day hog hunting we set up one of the larger hogs and use it as ballistic gel. Three jugs of water was set up behind it to recover any bullets that made it through but it was only needed for the Barnes 110 gr. .30 caliber round fired in a 7.62x40WT. The other three were fired out of my 25/223. Sierra 100 gr. Gamgking SPBT #1625, 2500 fps I fired at the shoulder at about 75 yards. The bullets went through the shoulder and lodged just under the hide on the opposite side. Cores and jackets were found within an inch of each other. They would have been kill shots but it would not have left much of a blood trail. As you can see, hogs can be big and tough. I don't think there would have been any problems on an animal such as a whitetail. 
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Posted: 2/17/2011 6:45:48 PM EDT
[#50]
Originally Posted By Graycard:
Since you're talking about bullets I thought you might like to see these. http://www.terrillhoffman.com/pics/b2.jpg After a good day hog hunting we set up one of the larger hogs and use it as ballistic gel. Three jugs of water was set up behind it to recover any bullets that made it through but it was only needed for the Barnes 110 gr. .30 caliber round fired in a 7.62x40WT. The other three were fired out of my 25/223. Sierra 100 gr. Gamgking SPBT #1625, 2500 fps I fired at the shoulder at about 75 yards. The bullets went through the shoulder and lodged just under the hide on the opposite side. Cores and jackets were found within an inch of each other. They would have been kill shots but it would not have left much of a blood trail. As you can see, hogs can be big and tough. I don't think there would have been any problems on an animal such as a whitetail. http://www.terrillhoffman.com/pics/hog1a.jpg Thanks for posting that. Do you have any Barnes 80 gr TSX to try out? I would guess it would exhibit better penetration. |
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