So I started to reload my 25-45 for the first time and i went with a power no one tried yet, not posted here, reloader 15x. Before my decision, i loaded reloader 10x but i lost my book on what the loads were and its been months since i did the loads then i was looking at the 223 page of my reloading book and just thought. "there is really no difference between the two at 75gr, this should work".

I worked up loads from 20gr and upping ever half gr. 8 total loads, 20gr to 23.5. I did make some safe loads to test the gas system at 18gr.

20" 24-45 sharps 1-10, rifle gas.
sierra 75 hp, flat base.
reloader 15x

I went to BLM land here in NorCal, just did 50 yards. nikon m223 scope wasn't working right for me, wouldn't go left or right on the fly compared to my vortex viper pst on my rem700. been too busy to swap out my votrex crossfire before i went.

18.0gr no cycle
20.0gr no cycle
20.5gr half cycle
21.0gr full cycle
21.5gr group below.


for the first group ever, it made a nice group for the first time. table wasn't that great, i can do better then that. and some people at BLM need to shot at their own targets, someone shot mine up with 223 before i could even take pictures.....

I am not wasting my other loads, 22.0-23.5gr, until i hit up a range near me so i can really see what it can do.



pic of rifle with vortex scope.

I hate to disappoint, but I wouldn't waste my time with reloader 15. It's way too slow for this application...

I would tend to agree for this cartridge.  I really like R15 for .243 (75/80g) and .308, but there are lots of better choices for a .223 parent case load like this.

i got time and plenty of 75gr bullets to waste. 75gr 223 has reloader 15 in the book. i'll pick up a chronograph and log every shot. my plan is to document every powder i can get my hands on and see what works and what doesn't.

i have access to a nice range that has 100 and 300 yards. 200-1000 yards when there is a match, i'll pick the best before i'd do a match. match in the future, maybe 2016.

Yes, but there is a big difference between case capacity to bore area between a 223 and 25-223. The larger bore diameter with the same case capacity causes the useful powders to be faster than with the parent case.

If you're happy with it, then by all means enjoy.

Has anyone tried these yet:

PPU PRVI Partizan Rifle Bullets 25 cal 100 gr

They are a flat base bullet that look similar to the Hornady 100 gr.  The Hornady seem to be in short supply and I am looking for an alternative economical bullet.  At $20.99/100 they are worth considering.

Link: http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Reloading/Reloading-Bullets%7C/pc/104792580/c/104761080/sc/112555080/PPU-PRVI-Partizan-Rifle-Bullets-ndash-100/2008796.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Freloading-bullets%2F_%2FN-1109589%2FNo-48%3FWTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNP%26recordsPerPage%3D48&WT.mc_id=ir92929&WT.tsrc=AFF&rid=10&irgwc=1

100gr Privi-Partizan .257
AA2200 24-25.6gr (did not shoot the 25.6 load *too hot , as load before it showed pressure signs and vertical stringing of group)
CCI No 450 SRP
Brass trim to 1.698"
2.301 COL (using ASC Mags)

How did they group?  I have the original chamber so I will probably get between 24gr and 24.5 before I have to stop.

Go back a few pages, I did a full write up..

Thank you.  found it

320pf - email sent.

Bump so this doesn't get archived

This should really be in the OP.

Long time no post...

I got a set of Lee FCD dies in, so now I will finally be able to crimp properly. I'm the next month or two I can hopefully do some testing.

LRRPF52,

You are quite right.  Thanks for adding the picture.



FIgure caption:
From Left to RIght.Black Hills 69g 223, 100g Sierra MK, 6.35x43mm w/100g Sierra MK, 100g Sierra GK, 6.35x43mm w/100g Sierra GK, 75g Hornady V-Max, 6.35x43mm w/75g Hornady V-Max, 85g Nosler Ballistic Tip, 6.35x43mm w/85g Nosler BT, 100g Sierra Pro-Hunter, 6.35x43mm w/100g Sierra Pro-Hunter, unloaded 6.35x43mm case, and Black Hills 77g 223.

320pf

If you could cut the boat tail longer on the 100gr pills, and increase the BC, while reducing the weight a little, that would be neat.

I hate to see the .257 bore get ignored by projectile makers, since .257 Roberts was my grandpa's preferred cartridge.  I've always wanted a quarterbore for that reason.

What are you getting with 22" barrels across these projo weights/types?

Is there a graph or PDF somewhere?

I feel the same way about the .25 bore and variety of bullets from makers. I wish Sierra or Berger would make some .257 match bullets.  Got a 20" barrel that came from 320pf and its been a consistent shooter around MOA. Not too sensitive to different bullets so far.

On velocities I've broken 3000 fps with 87-90 gr bullets which I consider very satisfactory compared to the bigger cased 250 Savage. I haven't done any testing this past two summers. Between the horrible weather up north and handloading component shortages I haven't experimented with as many powders as I want to. The powder issue has passed but time to shoot is the issue.

H4198 is giving me very consistent velocities and pressures don't seem to spike as fast/high as with Win 748. 748 has been my #1 fav powder for decades in 223 & 308 but it was disappointing in the 25-223.

I have a field report to file:

A couple of weeks ago my son and I went down to the farm on the opening of doe season. He had an itchy trigger finger and I needed some venison. On Sat evening a nice one sauntered across the road and he quickly made a fairly well placed shot with the time that he had. Again the Hornady 100gr bullet over 2200 did excellent and produced a one shot kill. The bullet struck a little high right below the backbone, but had plenty enough energy to put her down quickly.  Once again the wound channel opened up perfectly and exited about the size of a quarter.  I cannot say enough about the ease in which young children can shoot this rifle/caliber and how quickly it dispatches game.  This is the only rifle he will hunt with now.  

I want to thank 320pf with all the help he gave me on the shell holder for the Giraud Trimmer.  Giraud does not offer a shellholder for the 25/223, but with 320pf's help it became a reality. It is truly a pleasure to make and trim brass now.

Edited...VA-gunnut
 

Little late to the party on this one, but was just about to pull the trigger on a 25-45 sharps barrel for my next build when I came across this thread and have a couple quick questions.

1.  Am I correct in my understanding that the only difference between the 25-223 and 25-45 is that the necks are trimmed back for a 1.70" COAL on the 25-223, and as such the 25-45 Sharps dies and brass could be used for the 25-223? (different head stamp helps to prevent accidents)
2.  I've seen mention of "Spec II" chambers with a longer free bore.  How much longer is the free bore on these?  I have a good local smith who could easily lengthen the free bore in a 25-45 Sharps chamber for me if push came to shove.
3.  Who can I get a 20 or 22" 25-223 Spec II barrel from without a ridiculously long wait?

1. Yes the brass is 1.70" on the 25-223, Dies-  get a Redding S-type bushing die in 223 #137496, and use a Redding Tapered Size Button #19256 25 Caliber , Redding Neck Size Die Bushing 263 Diameter Steel #201741. Use lake city brass for best results.
2. 320pf could answer, he will cut it to whatever bullet you plan to use... I had mine set up for the 100gr Nosler BT, I have shot several diff bullets & all have acceptable accuracy.
3. 320pf is the user you seek... he can get you a barrel, with a case gauge made from the same reamer as the barrel...  took around 6 weeks for me.

Meanwhile...in California.

Today the .25-223 laid down a 450-500 lb. Roosevelt cow elk. One shot, around 140 yards. Used my typical hunting load of 24.0 grains of Reloder 7 under the Barnes 80-grain TTSX. The elk was looking straight at me and the bullet entered the center-front of the neck and exited out the back. She went straight down and didn't move. I make sausage with a small group of family/friends once a year and this is my contribution for 2015!

All standard disclaimers apply. The .25-223 is not generally suitable for elk and similar-sized game. I have significant experience with this rifle and (more importantly) am fortunate to have the ability to choose exactly when and where to take these animals. I would not (and did not) squeeze the trigger until I was 100% confident in a quick and humane kill.

Awesome! I'm jealous. So you say the bullet exited out the back; are you saying the round passed through the entire body? Do you have any pics of the wound channel?

IBTPWSTYMUA300WMOLCTEHBG

(In before the people who say that you must use a 300 Win Mag or larger cartridge to ethically hunt big game)

To respond to the earlier question. The 80-grain TTSX passed laterally (front-to-back) through the neck and exited near, but not through, the spine. I did not examine the wound channel in detail. The exit wound was small, which is very typical of the controlled expansion and deep penetration I typically see with Barnes bullets driven at moderate-to-high velocities. Again, the elk was dead when she hit the ground, another reminder that proper shot placement and bullet construction are paramount in ensuring reliable, humane kills.

At the risk of being redundant,  the 80-grain .257 TTSX kills like a laser beam when properly placed. My supply however is running low and if anyone knows where to purchase some, I would appreciate it if you would drop me a line.

ETA - Ordered 80-grain .257 TTSX from MidwayUSA. Thanks!

Has anyone else shot the new 70 grain Blitzking .25-45 ammunition from SRC?  We took some prairie dog hunting, and it made quite an impression!  







A bit more information on the rounds:



70 grain Sierra BlitzKing

3179 fps average (20 round fired over chronograph)

0.889 MOA at 210 yards





Coyotes are next on the list, now that it is cooling off a bit in California.





Eric  



ETA: Picture and info



 

Broke out the .25-223 bolt gun Thanksgiving weekend (Remington 700) and had no trouble ringing steel at 400 yards with a 85-grain BT over 22.8 grains of R7. I have yet to work up a 80-grain TTSX load for this rifle. They're scarce enough - and shoot so well out of my AR - that I hate to consume some in load development.

Anyway, I managed to take a pretty decent picture of the 400 yard target through the scope and thought I would share.

A while back I got some complimentary Sierra 70g BK. I loaded some up and shot them in a couple of 3-gun matches.  The 70g BK shot well at all ranges as long as the wind was not blowing too much. If the wind is blowing (~10 mph cross wind @ 90°) they will be blown ~3" off target by about 150 yards. They will be off target by ~5" and ~13" at 200 yards and 300 yards, respectively.

While one can get an impressive muzzle velocity with the Sierra 70g BK bullet, the ballistic performance is not as good as one might expect due to the low ballistic coefficient (BC)
The G7 BC is 0.118 and the G1 BC ranges from:

BC

0.260 @ 3150 fps and above

0.251 between 2800 and 3150 fps

0.242 between 1800 and 2800 fps

0.230 @ 1800 fps and below

From the Sierra web site

If you are looking for a light weight high velocity bullet one should consider the Hornady 75g VMAX. In a 16" barrel, I have pushed these to about 3000 fps with the standard chamber and 3100 fps in the SPEC II chamber. In a 20" barrel the 25-223Ar will push the Hornady 75g VMAX  to about 3100 fps with the standard chamber and 3200 fps in the SPEC II chamber.

This bullet has a G1 BC of 0.290. In the same ~10 mph cross wind @ 90°, they will be blown off target by ~4.6" and ~11" at 200 yrds and 300 yrds, respectively.

The velocity and energy of the the Hornady 75g VMAX at 200 yrds.; about 2495fps/1037 ft-lbs and at and 300 yrds about 2196fps/803 ft-lbs.
Compare this to the Sierra 70gr BK; about 2405fps/899 ft-lbs and at and 300 yrds about 2057fps/658 ft-lbs
Big advantage for the Hornady 75g VMAX at 300 yards. Hard to beat the higher BC.

The 75g VMAX has a 0.517" long ogive. The Sierra 70g BK has about the longest ogive (0.487 ±0.003") that you can run in the Sharps version.

Due to the shorter case of the 23-223AR version, those of you with the 23-223AR can shoot the Hornaday 75g VMAX. Folks that shoot the Sharps version are out of luck.

For general long range shooting I prefer a heavier bullet because there is less wind drift.  In factory bullets, I use the following with a preference for the Nosler 85 gr and the Sierra 90g BK:

Nosler 85 Ballistic Tip
Sierra 90g BK
Sierra 100g MK
Speer 87 TNT

For specialty long range shooting, I shoot a custom 88g HPBT with a G1 BC of 0.42. The ogive on this bullet is 0.582", so I have to trim the cases to 1.685" but it is worth the extra effort.

I have only shot these out of a 20 in barrel with a SPES II chamber. So far, I have pushed  them to about 2850 fps. The velocity and energy at 200 yrds.; about 2379fps/1105 ft-lbs and at and 300 yrds about 2179fps/928 ft-lbs.

In the same ~10 mph cross wind @ 90°, they will be blown off target by ~3.5" and ~8.1" at 200 yrds and 300 yrds, respectively.
Back to that same old axiom "Hard to beat the higher BC".

Eric,

One last thing, you should more clearly disclose that you are promoting a vendor and your website. Posting here and acting like a "regular" guy is a bit disingenuous.

wombat25,

Nice picture. What is the barrel length? In the bolt gun you should be able to load the cartridge out beyond 2.26 . How long can you push the C.O.L.?

I suspect that you should be able to get velocities pretty close the the 257 Kimber.

It's a 22" barrel. Picture below.

In theory I should be able to load to 2.550" and increase the powder charge slightly but I have honestly not made the time to really optimize a load for this rifle. I have a considerable amount of money into it and no more than 100 rounds through the barrel. My AR shoots so well that it sits in the safe a lot, though I have taken a pig and a couple of coyotes with it.

One of these days I will invest the time into load development and post results. I suspect this will one day soon be an excellent rifle for my daughters who will be of hunting-age in a few years.

Was out fri shooting my 25ar, was hittin steel at 635yd with my 85gr load. Still runs great and looking forward to jackin some critters with the 75gr loads. Wanted to test them out to 400yd they will do just fine

I haven't seen anybody using Alliant 1200R, so I thought I'd add in my experiences.

I have two good loads worked up for my 18" 25-45 Sharps barrel:


90gr Sierra HPBT GameKing
26.25gr 1200R
Tula SRM Primer
Norma cases (length around 1.750")
2.255" COL
2826fps average
SD 4
ES 11
3/4 moa @ 100 yards



Hornady 117gr soft point round nose
24.0gr 1200R
CCI #41Primer
LC12 brass trimmed to 1.740" (puts cannelure in perfect spot if you want to crimp...I don't)
2.260" COL
2423fps average
I took two deer this year with this load:

Button buck- quartering shot at 25 yards, bullet hit behind front shoulder and exited in front of opposite rear leg. He dropped on the spot

Doe- trotting along broadside at 150 yards, bullet took out both lungs and exited. Also dropped on the spot.

This thread is great.  I've got a 25 dti  (6.8 necked to .25) and I wish I could get over 3k with 90gr SGK's  I may have to start tinkering with some of these powders you guys are using.

Is there anybody out there that has a 25-223ar barrel for sale? I've tried a couple different forms of contact and cannot get in touch with 320pf.
Thank you




 

I'm happy with my 25-45. Just saying. Not sure why it's so slighted on this thread- simply trim your cases back as short as you need and carry on.

Hi sauer256,

If it was only that easy.  

With the Sharps chamber, if you trim the case back to 1.70" you leave a 0.60" gap in the neck area of the chamber, the bullet will encounter  a sharp 90 degree cornered radius. Bullet shavings will accumulate in this area.  The bullet shavings will restrict the chamber resulting in a dangerous high pressure condition and or bullets will not fully chamber because of partial blockage by the shavings which will also result in dangerous high pressure condition. What I am talking about is similar to the flaw in the original 6.8 SPC chamber which was rectified when the 6.8 SPC SPECII chambers came out.

So that is why I do not give such advice.

The folks that are shooting the 25-223Ar are also quite happy. Especially with the extra 50-100 fps velocity with the same weight bullets and the ability to shoot longer, heavier, higher BC bullets that the  25-223Ar chamber offers.

Just one last comment, the 25-223Ar has been used to successfully take deer, hogs, and one elk as well as a multitude of varmints.  The large game has mostly been taken with 100 g bullets or the Barnes 80g TTSX.  Granted the 25-223Ar is a hand loading proposition but this comes with a greater selection of bullets for the shooter to choose from. Contrast this the the Sharps which is restricted to the lighter shorter 87 g and 70 g bullets (I do not think that any one would argue that the 70 g bullets are a varmint only proposition). With the lighter 87 g bullet you have the same situation that the 250-3000 Savage faced when it was first introduced in  1915, unreliable performance on big game.  This was corrected when the 100 g bullets were introduced. you can find reference to this in several reloading manuals.

320pf

man, been 4 months i haven't done anything. i got two weeks of vacation coming up starting end of this week. I'll get some more loads done and see how it is at 300 yards.

I'm not trying to knock your 25-223, just saying that there is nothing wrong with the "other".
I'm shooting 117gr bullets just fine, and I'm not trimming cases back a mile- see my above post.
There is no bullet shaving taking place. Withdrawing both chambered rounds as well as inspection of the chamber proves this. Sure, the neck transition area is relatively sharp (59° 30') but I see no problem.
Having said the above, I do not see the Sharps as limited to ONLY 87gr and less.
I'm at 5 firings on my 117gr load with the same cases @2425fps from an 18" barrel with primer pockets still tight. I've taken three deer with my 25-45 Sharps this fall.
How much more velocity would the 25-223 version gain?

Sauer256;

Thanks for posting your Alliant 1200R. I bought a 8 lbs jug but about o month ago but I have not had anytime to try it out. I hope to have some time this weekend to try out some reloads.

I talked to technical support at Alliant about the relative Burn Rate of 1200R and here is a summary of their test. (Burn Rates are not absolute and depend on the ambient temp. and case/test bomb etc...)

MadCowRacer; Here is a list of the different powders that have been tried in the 25-223Ar. Due to the volume limits of the case, ball powders tend to yield better velocity performance.

Acc.  Ram  ALL  Hodg  IMR

--    --    --   --   4227

5744  --    --   --    --

1680* --    --   --    --

--    --    --   --    --

LT30  --    --  H4198  4198

LT32  --    --   --    --

2200* --    RE7* --    --

--    --    --  H322   --

2015  --    --   --    --

--    --    --  Bench  3031

2230  X-ter R10X  --   --

--    --   1200R  --   --

2460  --    --   --    --

--    --    --  BLC2   --

2495  TAC  R12  H335*  --



Bold font indicates ball powder; [blue]Blue font indicates powders that have been tried in the 25-223AR

* indicates my first "go to" powders 

4227; 1680; and 4298 : These fast powders work best for the lighter bullets (80-70 g).
2200 and Re7:   These powders are ideal powders for 85-100 g bullets.
H335:  This powder works best for bullets [span style='text-decoration: underline;']> 100 g.
1200R: This is a new kid on the block but it looks very promising.

I hope this helps.

320pf

(written up at 34000 feet somewhere over Calif/Nevada)

320pf,

Thanks for forwarding that info. So Alliant is saying 1200R is "slower" then Xterminator (AA2230)?! It seems to me to be very close to AA2200. Perhaps it's just my lot #, but top loads for a 223 are 22.9gr max for a 55gr. This would put it closer to RL-7 and AA2200.
I WAS at the point of wondering if 1200R and 2200 were the same powders, but now I'm scratching my head.

320pf, check emails when you get a chance.

Grand daughter's first deer, button buck 125 yards and bang flop.  shot hit offside shoulder and the exit you can see.  100gr. Pro Hunter, AA 2200 powder.

Congratulations to your grand daughter.  Nice deer.

Could you please provide the barrel length, powder charge and velocity.  I am trying to put together a database of such information.

I am always amazed with the wound trauma that the 100 gr bullets like the 100g Hornady, 100 gr Sierra ProHunters, and GameKings produce.

320pf

18" barrel, 24.3 gr. AA2200, I am getting 2580 fps on average.

Shoots like a house afire, minimal recoil, grand daughter shoots it as well as her 10/22 I built her.

Tell her congrats on the deer

Worriedman,

Thanks for posting the above information.

Again, congratulations to you and your grand daughter.  You must be a proud grandpa  

320pf

Great pic!  Congratulations to the both of you.

So still playing with the 25ar, was out at the range saturday to confirm some dope and practice for a match this coming weekend with the 708.
&-08 shoots fantastic

I am still shooting the 85gr NBT over h335 still shoots damn good. Ran it out to 700 on steel. Super sketchy with wind. past 500yd. It was 8-10 w/ 15mph gusts.

Here is 3rd @ 300yd on a FS NRA pig target maybe Its dead


Funny thing that i never realized before saturday is my scope is dead nuts perfect. I am running a vortex BDC the hash marks reflect my 100-400yd dope perfectly LOL.
100-zero
200-1.5moa
300-4.3moa
400-7.8moa
This is the reticle



Was perfect smacking dead center on small silhouettes out to 400yd. my 500yd is 14moa.
-Next time out im going to play with the 75gr bullets see how they land in the reticle.

the 7-08 fits in this forum well also, it is chambered in a Maten receiver set
Shoots as well, this is @500yd prone, fullsize idpa silo.

I need to get my bolt gun out again....I think the last rounds I put through it were in the 1100 yard range at pdogs and it's been in the safe since.

Thinking about trying something a little different. I have been talking to 320pf about doing a barrel run and am looking at a 24" barrel in a light contour with the spec II chamber. Looking to pick up some fps for the longer fields around here. My son has almost completely assumed ownership of the first 25/233 we built. I will need  to build another if I plan on shooting this year. Anyone else thinking about starting a build?