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AZ, USA
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Posted: 8/31/2014 12:24:39 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SCPossum1:
So I probably would have to get a blank shellholder and have it cut with the reamer to fit if I went that route. Might be worth it. Prepping brass is my least favorite thing. Wonder if Geraud would take a 223 shellholder and put a 25 cal neck in it. I might have to ask if that is possible. Thanks 320 for the pic of the Forester. I am changing my reloading style and looking for more efficient ways of doing things. Time is getting smaller and smaller for things I used to consider a neccesity. Gracey makes up holders on special order. I bet Giraurd will too. Greg |
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Posted: 8/31/2014 12:48:26 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 320pf:
This is the set up that I use. I set this up on my drill press and can trim about 300-500 cases per hour. http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/721/721759.jpg Here is the link http://www.midwayusa.com/product/721759/forster-power-case-trimmer?cm_vc=ProductFinding Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 320pf:
Originally Posted By SCPossum1:
Is anyone using a Giraud trimmer for this brass and if so can the normal 223 shell holder be used? Thinking about getting one and trying to figure out what holders I will need. This is the set up that I use. I set this up on my drill press and can trim about 300-500 cases per hour. http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/721/721759.jpg Here is the link http://www.midwayusa.com/product/721759/forster-power-case-trimmer?cm_vc=ProductFinding I use this exact setup. It is great for the .25-223 as well as other wildcats like my 7.62x40 and especially my 300BLK, which requires lots of trimming if using once fired .223 brass. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 9/1/2014 10:27:52 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SCPossum1:
So I probably would have to get a blank shellholder and have it cut with the reamer to fit if I went that route. Might be worth it. Prepping brass is my least favorite thing. Wonder if Geraud would take a 223 shellholder and put a 25 cal neck in it. I might have to ask if that is possible. Thanks 320 for the pic of the Forester. I am changing my reloading style and looking for more efficient ways of doing things. Time is getting smaller and smaller for things I used to consider a neccesity. Hi SCPossum1, I have tried several different types and ways to trim cases. The fastest trimmer that I have tested was using a friends Dillon Precision set up. I was able to trim about 800-1200 cases per hour. With the Dillon system, all you need to do is dump the cleaned cases into the case-feeder hopper and start pulling the crank. You do not have to touch or pick up any cases using the Dillon, but you will cost you about $1100 dollars to set one up (~ $570 Dillon 650, $220 case-feeder, and $350 for the power trimmer and accessoires). For the price and the production rate (~$75-80 for the trimmer and the various pilots and collets for the different calibers that you may have) you can't beat the Forster set up. (If you do not have a small drill press you can get one at Home Depot or similar type store for about $85-$110. Bottom line in about an hour I can make 300-500 cases (trimmed and deburred) for the three 223 REM calibers that I shoot (25-223Ar, 300 Whisper/Blackout, and 7.62x40). If you have the bucks however, I would go with the Dillon. Good Luck in whatever system that you go with. 320pf |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 11:38:27 AM EDT
[#4]
Hi SCPossum1,
I have tried several different types and ways to trim cases. The fastest trimmer that I have tested was using a friends Dillon Precision set up. I was able to trim about 800-1200 cases per hour. With the Dillon system, all you need to do is dump the cleaned cases into the case-feeder hopper and start pulling the crank. You do not have to touch or pick up any cases using the Dillon, but you will cost you about $1100 dollars to set one up (~ $570 Dillon 650, $220 case-feeder, and $350 for the power trimmer and accessoires). It's even nicer on the 1050 , can really kick out 300blk and takes care of any primer pocket crimp at the same time |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 11:49:51 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GLShooter:
Gracey makes up holders on special order. I bet Giraurd will too. Greg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GLShooter:
Originally Posted By SCPossum1:
So I probably would have to get a blank shellholder and have it cut with the reamer to fit if I went that route. Might be worth it. Prepping brass is my least favorite thing. Wonder if Geraud would take a 223 shellholder and put a 25 cal neck in it. I might have to ask if that is possible. Thanks 320 for the pic of the Forester. I am changing my reloading style and looking for more efficient ways of doing things. Time is getting smaller and smaller for things I used to consider a neccesity. Gracey makes up holders on special order. I bet Giraurd will too. Greg I'd also assume you could drill out the neck of a .223 holder, I know that worked great for getting a buddy a case gauge |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/1/2014 5:43:00 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By angus6:
I'd also assume you could drill out the neck of a .223 holder, I know that worked great for getting a buddy a case gauge Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By angus6:
Originally Posted By GLShooter:
Originally Posted By SCPossum1:
So I probably would have to get a blank shellholder and have it cut with the reamer to fit if I went that route. Might be worth it. Prepping brass is my least favorite thing. Wonder if Geraud would take a 223 shellholder and put a 25 cal neck in it. I might have to ask if that is possible. Thanks 320 for the pic of the Forester. I am changing my reloading style and looking for more efficient ways of doing things. Time is getting smaller and smaller for things I used to consider a neccesity. Gracey makes up holders on special order. I bet Giraurd will too. Greg I'd also assume you could drill out the neck of a .223 holder, I know that worked great for getting a buddy a case gauge That would work. I'm not sure how hard they are. Going up should be easy but going to a smaller one just isn't near as simple.. Greg |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 7:51:55 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GLShooter:
That would work. I'm not sure how hard they are. Going up should be easy but going to a smaller one just isn't near as simple.. Greg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GLShooter:
Originally Posted By angus6:
Originally Posted By GLShooter:
Originally Posted By SCPossum1:
So I probably would have to get a blank shellholder and have it cut with the reamer to fit if I went that route. Might be worth it. Prepping brass is my least favorite thing. Wonder if Geraud would take a 223 shellholder and put a 25 cal neck in it. I might have to ask if that is possible. Thanks 320 for the pic of the Forester. I am changing my reloading style and looking for more efficient ways of doing things. Time is getting smaller and smaller for things I used to consider a neccesity. Gracey makes up holders on special order. I bet Giraurd will too. Greg I'd also assume you could drill out the neck of a .223 holder, I know that worked great for getting a buddy a case gauge That would work. I'm not sure how hard they are. Going up should be easy but going to a smaller one just isn't near as simple.. Greg hear you on going smaller , one of these days I'll get Pat a 6x6.8 case sent for a holder for the Gracey. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 9/1/2014 8:10:38 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By angus6:
It's even nicer on the 1050 , can really kick out 300blk and takes care of any primer pocket crimp at the same time Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By angus6:
Hi SCPossum1,
I have tried several different types and ways to trim cases. The fastest trimmer that I have tested was using a friends Dillon Precision set up. I was able to trim about 800-1200 cases per hour. With the Dillon system, all you need to do is dump the cleaned cases into the case-feeder hopper and start pulling the crank. You do not have to touch or pick up any cases using the Dillon, but you will cost you about $1100 dollars to set one up (~ $570 Dillon 650, $220 case-feeder, and $350 for the power trimmer and accessoires). It's even nicer on the 1050 , can really kick out 300blk and takes care of any primer pocket crimp at the same time Actually, I did my test with a Dillon 1050 and you are absolutely correct, the 1050 is the way to go. The Dillon 1050 will run you about $1700 but it comes with a case feeder. The the heads are also a bit more expensive. You could get a 1050 set up for about ~$2100. Before the reloading components (powder, bullets, and primers etc...) shortages, I used to shoot about 200-400 rounds a month during the winter and about 600-800 rounds per month during the summer season. I was about ready to make the jump to a Dillon 1050 before the reloading components dried up but I could not justify the expense because I am not shooting that much now. Just can't get enough of the reloading components to shoot that much right now. I hope that things will go back to normal after 2016. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 11:14:04 AM EDT
[#9]
Meanwhile in California the .25-223 continues to lay down pigs. I can't even count (or remember) how many I've now killed with this rifle. The 80-grain TTSX is a one-shot kill everytime.
I'm looking at a more significant .25-.223 related update...soon...gunsmiths are generally not a speedy bunch, in my experience. 
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USA
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Posted: 9/13/2014 11:41:16 PM EDT
[#10]
im working up some loads for the 25-223 with imr 4198 and barnes 80 gr ttsx bullets. i didnt see any 4198 loads with this bullet so here is where im starting
22.0 22.5 23.0 23.5 24.0 let me know your thoughts. has anyone tried this combo? ill be shooting from a 20 in bbl |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 9/14/2014 8:25:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SCPossum1]
[#11]
Save the thread to a pdf and make it searchable. Try page 20 to start.
The poster above you might have a few suggestions. Hint ...hint. |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 10:34:33 AM EDT
[#12]
Yes, I did some work with H4198 (not the same as IMR4198, use caution). 22.5 grains of powder resulted in about 2730 fps with the 80-grain TTSX w/ an 18" barrel. This was a very accurate load but did occasionally show pressure signs. Ultimately I settled on R7 as the powder giving me a little more velocity with fewer pressure signs but I look forward to seeing the results of your experimentation. Be cautious and work your loads up.
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SC, USA
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Posted: 9/14/2014 10:43:53 AM EDT
[#13]
My bad. Searched on 4198 without the manufacturer prefix.
Sorry about that. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 6:32:55 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wombat25:
Meanwhile in California the .25-223 continues to lay down pigs. I can't even count (or remember) how many I've now killed with this rifle. The 80-grain TTSX is a one-shot kill everytime. I'm looking at a more significant .25-.223 related update...soon...gunsmiths are generally not a speedy bunch, in my experience.  
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ID, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2014 10:47:40 AM EDT
[#15]
Getting ready for deer season here in Idaho and I have my Reloader 7 and my 80 gr TTSX bullets. Can you fellas post up your loads for this combo so I don't have to go back through all these pages please? I will start low and work up but I am curious where you all have settled. Thanks!!!
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Posted: 9/18/2014 5:06:28 PM EDT
[#16]
24.0 grains of Reloder 7 is the load which worked best in my rifle.
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USA
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Posted: 9/24/2014 10:01:13 PM EDT
[#17]
I havent been able to find RL7 anywhere. closest i got is imr 4198. Does anyone have load data for the hornady 117gr round nose with imr 4198, imr 8208 xbr, or reloader 10x? those are the only powders i have that seem to be in the burn range for this cartridge. have a decent idea where to start with these powders?
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Posted: 9/25/2014 4:15:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: VeritatisUnus]
[#18]
Update:
I was able to take out the 25 today and I shot some loads that were waaay too hot with the old standard 25-223 chamber. But I felt they would be fine in the new 25-223AR Spec II chamber. My load: 90 gr Game King on top of 26.0 of AA2200 with CCI Magnum Primer loaded to 2.30 COAL. I am using ASC 10rd SS mags. These mags allow 2.3x OAL with no mods and work great (thank you SCPossum1 for the suggestion) Mags: DISCLAIMER: DON"T USE THIS LOAD! This load I feel is fine in MY RIFLE ONLY. I am using the new 25-223AR Spec II chamber, have a low mass carrier and adjustable gas system. This load is probably downright dangerous in the standard 25-223 chamber, especially if loaded to the old standard of 2.26. So again, this is for my rifle only.. The rifle: 
The Chrony: 
The brass: 
On paper at 100: 
Obviously not quite zeroed. I ended up shooting around 65 rounds zeroing the scope and red-dot and blasted various loads. No malfunctions and recoil is so mild I can maintain scope picture when firing. Overall I am excited about the results. I have some 87 Hot Core and 100 Hot Core to test next. Both of these bullets are the shortest for their given weight, and that's a good thing as it allows more room for powder. The 87 is shorter than the 90 GK has a better BC and is more robust than the GK, making it potentially ideal for this cartridge (at least for my intentions).. but that is to come later. I don't know why the pics are sideways. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 9/26/2014 7:03:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SCPossum1]
[#19]
Nice report and nice looking riflle. Seems like the new chamber is getting the desired result. Primers look good, too.
Only question I have is did you pop the fishy on the floor with the red dot or the scope? Adding a second question...what was the velocity before the rechamber with the previous load combination? |
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Posted: 9/26/2014 10:24:53 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SCPossum1:
Nice report and nice looking riflle. Seems like the new chamber is getting the desired result. Primers look good, too. Only question I have is did you pop the fishy on the floor with the red dot or the scope? Adding a second question...what was the velocity before the rechamber with the previous load combination? Haha. My son killed the fish before dad got to it. I couldn't shoot this load in the old chamber, I was maxed out (popping primers) at 25.5. So I never attempted my loads beyond that until now. My old 2.3 load was a 90GK on 25.2 at 2950, but this was sketchy because it was hitting the lands, so it wouldn't always feed, had pressure spikes, and sometimes would pull the bullet when trying to unload. Basically it was a shit sandwich and why I stopped messing around until I got the chamber cut. |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 11:14:47 PM EDT
[#21]
Here’s the newest member of the .25-223 family – a Remington Model 700 ADL chambered in the caliber by a fairly well-known precision rifle maker out of Colorado. Having the barrel fitted to the action wasn’t inexpensive or quick, but the end-product looks great. It’s fitted with a 20” stainless steel barrel, and a Bell & Carlson stock (which I fitted and installed) with two Grovetec thread-in QD swivel cups to permit the quick attachment of a two-point sling. You can see one of the QD cups in the picture below on the buttstock.
Shot it for the first time today, mostly to get a feel for how everything came together and a rough zero, and not really for serious load development. It was an interesting exercise. The rifle is technically chambered in .25x45 and the brass I had ready was trimmed to the standard .223/5.56 length of 1.75.” However the fired cases which came with the rifle were trimmed a little shorter at 1.735.” I think this is significant as my slightly longer cases had both hard bolt-closing and pressure signs. Accuracy was good but I have a lot of load development to undertake. After burning through the small number of loaded rounds I had ready, I thought it couldn’t hurt too much to try a few of my ‘standard’ .25-223 80-grain TTSX (brass at 1.69”) rounds. To my mild surprise, they chambered more easily, showed fewer pressure signs, and had equivalent accuracy to the loads with longer brass. What’s this mean? Not much at the moment, other than the fact that I need to do a little tinkering as far as brass length is concerned. More updates to come. Not only do I need to work up a good load, but also get the magazine functioning properly and get a new scope. So many good projects, so little time. |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 11:52:00 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wombat25:
Here’s the newest member of the .25-223 family – a Remington Model 700 ADL chambered in the caliber by a fairly well-known precision rifle maker out of Colorado. Having the barrel fitted to the action wasn’t inexpensive or quick, but the end-product looks great. It’s fitted with a 20” stainless steel barrel, and a Bell & Carlson stock (which I fitted and installed) with two Grovetec thread-in QD swivel cups to permit the quick attachment of a two-point sling. You can see one of the QD cups in the picture below on the buttstock. <a href="http://s57.photobucket.com/user/bhiggins25/media/BF10EFE2-52D2-4FAF-A7F0-102388D9E5FE_zpsonmhemoc.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g216/bhiggins25/BF10EFE2-52D2-4FAF-A7F0-102388D9E5FE_zpsonmhemoc.jpg</a> Shot it for the first time today, mostly to get a feel for how everything came together and a rough zero, and not really for serious load development. It was an interesting exercise. The rifle is technically chambered in .25x45 and the brass I had ready was trimmed to the standard .223/5.56 length of 1.75.” However the fired cases which came with the rifle were trimmed a little shorter at 1.735.” I think this is significant as my slightly longer cases had both hard bolt-closing and pressure signs. Accuracy was good but I have a lot of load development to undertake. After burning through the small number of loaded rounds I had ready, I thought it couldn’t hurt too much to try a few of my ‘standard’ .25-223 80-grain TTSX (brass at 1.69”) rounds. To my mild surprise, they chambered more easily, showed fewer pressure signs, and had equivalent accuracy to the loads with longer brass. What’s this mean? Not much at the moment, other than the fact that I need to do a little tinkering as far as brass length is concerned. More updates to come. Not only do I need to work up a good load, but also get the magazine functioning properly and get a new scope. So many good projects, so little time. Could I get a name as I think I know who but would love to know for sure. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/29/2014 6:34:16 PM EDT
[#23]
I bet I could guess, he had the reamer on hand. He got the reamer when he built my 700 years ago. If it's the same one I used, he loves wildcats.
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Posted: 9/29/2014 9:18:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: LaRue_Tactical]
[#24]
1/4 minute bullets ...
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WI, USA
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Posted: 10/2/2014 8:32:34 PM EDT
[#25]
I was researching the 25x45 and found this topic and I'm wonder what the difference is?? I found Sharps rifles hase 25x45 barrels reasonable and am thinking of getting one to use on whitetail with a 90 gr GMX
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Posted: 10/2/2014 9:57:07 PM EDT
[#26]
Wombat25, was it Greg Tannel or someone else?
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NY, USA
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Posted: 10/2/2014 11:58:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 320pf]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DOX:
I was researching the 25x45 and found this topic and I'm wonder what the difference is?? I found Sharps rifles hase 25x45 barrels reasonable and am thinking of getting one to use on whitetail with a 90 gr GMX The Sharps 25x45, designed around the Speer 87g Hot-Cor bullet, has a longer neck and an overall longer case (1.76") than the 25-2223AR (1.70"). The longer neck of the Sharps 25x45 rides up on bullets with a long ogive (bullets with high BC's usually have long ogives). The Hornady 90 g GMX is a monolithic copper alloy bullet. These types of bullets tend to be long for weight because copper is less dense than lead. Looking a pictures of the 90 g GMX on the Honrady site, I am pretty sure that the Sharps 25x45 neck will be well up into the ogive. When I designed the 25-223AR, the first iteration was similar the the Sharps 25X25, simply a straight neck-up tp 25 cal. Only about four bullets could be seated to 2.26" C.O.L. and not have the neck cover the bullet ogive. The solution was to cut the case back to 1.70". This is the same length as the 222REM, but by using the 223REM case you ended up with a "improved" version of Wotter's 25 Copperhead (25-222REM) without having to do any fire forming. If you read through this thread there is a discussion/list of the bullets that are too long for the 25x45 Sharps. I personally would not buy anything from the Sharps Rifle Company. They were in receivership once already (circa Aug. 2011)... Given the steep discounts on their web page, it looks like they are headed there again. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 10:43:34 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 320pf:
Hi SCPossum1, I have tried several different types and ways to trim cases. The fastest trimmer that I have tested was using a friends Dillon Precision set up. I was able to trim about 800-1200 cases per hour. With the Dillon system, all you need to do is dump the cleaned cases into the case-feeder hopper and start pulling the crank. You do not have to touch or pick up any cases using the Dillon, but you will cost you about $1100 dollars to set one up (~ $570 Dillon 650, $220 case-feeder, and $350 for the power trimmer and accessoires). For the price and the production rate (~$75-80 for the trimmer and the various pilots and collets for the different calibers that you may have) you can't beat the Forster set up. (If you do not have a small drill press you can get one at Home Depot or similar type store for about $85-$110. Bottom line in about an hour I can make 300-500 cases (trimmed and deburred) for the three 223 REM calibers that I shoot (25-223Ar, 300 Whisper/Blackout, and 7.62x40). If you have the bucks however, I would go with the Dillon. Good Luck in whatever system that you go with. 320pf Which trim die do you use with the Dillon trimmer for the 25-223AR? |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:00:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: wombat25]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RegionRat:
Wombat25, was it Greg Tannel or someone else? It was not Mr. Tannel. Send me an IM if you want the name. For the record, I was interested in bolt-action purely as a fun and interesting project. There's not much practical advantage over the AR, especially given that the AR barrel I received from 320pf shoots sub-MOA all day long.
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Posted: 10/6/2014 9:20:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Worriedman]
[#30]
Does anyone know of a machinist that can enlarge the neck of a .223 Dillon size/trim die to .25 caliber? Could kick myself, but it is my own fault, should have done more research before purchasing the trimmer. The Dillon dies are a resize/trim combo die, and they do not offer anything that will accommodate the 25-223 AR.
I have a RT 1200 on the way, but it will be useless for this application if I can not have a size /trim die honed out to .25 caliber, and more than likely cropped at the neck area to allow for the shorter neck of the .223. Hardened die steel would make this difficult I think. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 10/6/2014 10:17:57 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Worriedman:
Does anyone know of a machinist that can enlarge the neck of a .223 Dillon size/trim die to .25 caliber? Could kick myself, but it is my own fault, should have done more research before purchasing the trimmer. The Dillon dies are a resize/trim combo die, and they do not offer anything that will accommodate the 25-223 AR. I have a RT 1200 on the way, but it will be useless for this application if I can not have a size /trim die honed out to .25 caliber, and more than likely cropped at the neck area to allow for the shorter neck of the .223. Hardened die steel would make this difficult I think. CH4D can get you fixed up. They make Dillon Trimmers for bunches of cartridges. Greg |
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Posted: 10/7/2014 10:27:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Worriedman]
[#32]
Think I am going to take the proactive route, and attempt to trim with a standard .223 die first then neck up, if that will work. If not, then I will send to CH4D if I have to. Don't see why a little trial and error would not allow that process to work, not sure the die will allow that short a trim? Anyone who has used the Dillon tools for this might chime in and give their opinion, that would be helpful.
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Posted: 10/7/2014 12:49:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: LRRPF52]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nootay:
im working up some loads for the 25-223 with imr 4198 and barnes 80 gr ttsx bullets. i didnt see any 4198 loads with this bullet so here is where im starting 22.0 22.5 23.0 23.5 24.0 let me know your thoughts. has anyone tried this combo? ill be shooting from a 20 in bbl One sound guideline to consider is to work up pressure ladders using 1% case volume increments, so in the case of the .223 Remington, I personally don't exceed .2gr increments, since it's case capacity in powder is usually in the low to mid 20's in grains. With .270 Winchester, where case volume is usually in the 52-62gr region, I use .5 and .6gr increments, depending on the powder and published load data when doing pressure ladders. With .260 Remington, I use .4gr increments, since most loads are around 40gr for the bullet weights I prefer. For 6.5 Grendel, I use .3gr increments since we're in the high 20's and low 30's. A .5gr charge weight increase can spike on you big time in the .223 Remington case, since it is of 2% case capacity. You might also be skipping by accuracy nodes. Let us know how it works out for you. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2014 1:16:25 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Worriedman:
Think I am going to take the proactive route, and attempt to trim with a standard .223 die first then neck up, if that will work. If not, then I will send to CH4D if I have to. Don't see why a little trial and error would not allow that process to work, not sure the die will allow that short a trim? Anyone who has used the Dillon tools for this might chime in and give their opinion, that would be helpful. You may sneak by doing that. You may have to trim a bit long because when you expand out the case will be marginally shorter. Possibly not enough to deal with but something to look at. When I use it for the 20 Practical and 17-223 I cut them short as the necks do grow whenyou squeeze them down an appreciable amount especialy on the 17. Greg |
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Posted: 10/7/2014 3:45:46 PM EDT
[#35]
I have lots of .223 brass, trial and error will get me there if the trim die is short enough...
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CO, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2014 6:15:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 320pf:
The Sharps 25x45, designed around the Speer 87g Hot-Cor bullet, has a longer neck and an overall longer case (1.76") than the 25-2223AR (1.70"). The longer neck of the Sharps 25x45 rides up on bullets with a long ogive (bullets with high BC's usually have long ogives). The Hornady 90 g GMX is a monolithic copper alloy bullet. These types of bullets tend to be long for weight because copper is less dense than lead. Looking a pictures of the 90 g GMX on the Honrady site, I am pretty sure that the Sharps 25x45 neck will be well up into the ogive. When I designed the 25-223AR, the first iteration was similar the the Sharps 25X25, simply a straight neck-up tp 25 cal. Only about four bullets could be seated to 2.26" C.O.L. and not have the neck cover the bullet ogive. The solution was to cut the case back to 1.70". This is the same length as the 222REM, but by using the 223REM case you ended up with a "improved" version of Wotter's 25 Copperhead (25-222REM) without having to do any fire forming. If you read through this thread there is a discussion/list of the bullets that are too long for the 25x45 Sharps. I personally would not buy anything from the Sharps Rifle Company. They were in receivership once already (circa Aug. 2011)... Given the steep discounts on their web page, it looks like they are headed there again. I just joined. First post. :) Oh, boy, that does not sound good. I just built a new upper around a new SRC 20" barrel, and I found this thread while searching the 'net for handload recipes for 25-45 Sharps. It sounds like my Nosler BTV 85gr bullets could cause me trouble, too. Wish me luck, I guess, as this build is already done and waiting to be fed some ammo. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 10/8/2014 1:27:19 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kevwil:
I just joined. First post. :) Oh, boy, that does not sound good. I just built a new upper around a new SRC 20" barrel, and I found this thread while searching the 'net for handload recipes for 25-45 Sharps. It sounds like my Nosler BTV 85gr bullets could cause me trouble, too. Wish me luck, I guess, as this build is already done and waiting to be fed some ammo. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kevwil:
Originally Posted By 320pf:
The Sharps 25x45, designed around the Speer 87g Hot-Cor bullet, has a longer neck and an overall longer case (1.76") than the 25-2223AR (1.70"). The longer neck of the Sharps 25x45 rides up on bullets with a long ogive (bullets with high BC's usually have long ogives). The Hornady 90 g GMX is a monolithic copper alloy bullet. These types of bullets tend to be long for weight because copper is less dense than lead. Looking a pictures of the 90 g GMX on the Honrady site, I am pretty sure that the Sharps 25x45 neck will be well up into the ogive. When I designed the 25-223AR, the first iteration was similar the the Sharps 25X25, simply a straight neck-up tp 25 cal. Only about four bullets could be seated to 2.26" C.O.L. and not have the neck cover the bullet ogive. The solution was to cut the case back to 1.70". This is the same length as the 222REM, but by using the 223REM case you ended up with a "improved" version of Wotter's 25 Copperhead (25-222REM) without having to do any fire forming. If you read through this thread there is a discussion/list of the bullets that are too long for the 25x45 Sharps. I personally would not buy anything from the Sharps Rifle Company. They were in receivership once already (circa Aug. 2011)... Given the steep discounts on their web page, it looks like they are headed there again. I just joined. First post. :) Oh, boy, that does not sound good. I just built a new upper around a new SRC 20" barrel, and I found this thread while searching the 'net for handload recipes for 25-45 Sharps. It sounds like my Nosler BTV 85gr bullets could cause me trouble, too. Wish me luck, I guess, as this build is already done and waiting to be fed some ammo. Hi kevwil, Welcome to the 25 cal club. I hope the 25x45 Sharps works out for you. If you are not happy with the barrel and want to shoot the longer bullets you can rechamber the barrel to 25-223AR. You can do this by removing the barrel extension and cutting about 0.020 to 0.050 off the breach face and reaming the chamber with a 25-223Ar reamer. I can check with the shop and see how involved this is. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 10/8/2014 2:07:47 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 320pf:
Hi kevwil, Welcome to the 25 cal club. I hope the 25x45 Sharps works out for you. If you are not happy with the barrel and want to shoot the longer bullets you can rechamber the barrel to 25-223AR. You can do this by removing the barrel extension and cutting about 0.020 to 0.050 off the breach face and reaming the chamber with a 25-223Ar reamer. I can check with the shop and see how involved this is. Thank you! I pray it doesn't come to that, this is just a simple hunting rifle project for my sons. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/8/2014 7:39:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Dr69er]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kevwil:
I just joined. First post. :) Oh, boy, that does not sound good. I just built a new upper around a new SRC 20" barrel, and I found this thread while searching the 'net for handload recipes for 25-45 Sharps. It sounds like my Nosler BTV 85gr bullets could cause me trouble, too. Wish me luck, I guess, as this build is already done and waiting to be fed some ammo. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kevwil:
Originally Posted By 320pf:
The Sharps 25x45, designed around the Speer 87g Hot-Cor bullet, has a longer neck and an overall longer case (1.76") than the 25-2223AR (1.70"). The longer neck of the Sharps 25x45 rides up on bullets with a long ogive (bullets with high BC's usually have long ogives). The Hornady 90 g GMX is a monolithic copper alloy bullet. These types of bullets tend to be long for weight because copper is less dense than lead. Looking a pictures of the 90 g GMX on the Honrady site, I am pretty sure that the Sharps 25x45 neck will be well up into the ogive. When I designed the 25-223AR, the first iteration was similar the the Sharps 25X25, simply a straight neck-up tp 25 cal. Only about four bullets could be seated to 2.26" C.O.L. and not have the neck cover the bullet ogive. The solution was to cut the case back to 1.70". This is the same length as the 222REM, but by using the 223REM case you ended up with a "improved" version of Wotter's 25 Copperhead (25-222REM) without having to do any fire forming. If you read through this thread there is a discussion/list of the bullets that are too long for the 25x45 Sharps. I personally would not buy anything from the Sharps Rifle Company. They were in receivership once already (circa Aug. 2011)... Given the steep discounts on their web page, it looks like they are headed there again. I just joined. First post. :) Oh, boy, that does not sound good. I just built a new upper around a new SRC 20" barrel, and I found this thread while searching the 'net for handload recipes for 25-45 Sharps. It sounds like my Nosler BTV 85gr bullets could cause me trouble, too. Wish me luck, I guess, as this build is already done and waiting to be fed some ammo. A simple option would be to trim your cases to the same length as the 25-223 AR if you want to use the longer/heavier pills, It should work fine without making any other adjustments other than possibly a heavier crimp...although we don't know what the freebore is on the 25x45, (unless a chamber print comes with the barrel) a throating reamer (you can easily rent one for not much money) would also help you cut the freebore length to your desired needs and It would then give you the option of using long COL (combined overall length) mags and when rounds are loaded long It would help to reduce pressures and gain velocity at the same time... I hope this helps you and does not sound to complicated... Overall 320pf is correct about the SRC, they seem to be on shaky ground and do not Invoke much confidence as a company... Good Luck. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 6:58:36 AM EDT
[#40]
320pf I sent you an IM regarding barrel availability
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NY, USA
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Posted: 10/9/2014 9:13:40 AM EDT
[#41]
Hi rocketrepairguy,
I am on the road and my mailbox filled up. Please resend. |
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Posted: 10/15/2014 10:07:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: rocketrepairguy]
[#42]
Has Anyone tested the Privi-Partizan bullets?
B-046 25 0.257 HP 5.80 90 B-047 25 0.257 PSP 6.50 100 
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NY, USA
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Posted: 10/15/2014 9:20:30 PM EDT
[#43]
Hi rocketrepairguy,
Do you have a source and price for these? From the photo, they look promising. |
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Posted: 10/15/2014 9:23:40 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 320pf:
Hi rocketrepairguy, Do you have a source and price for these? From the photo, they look promising. Grafs carries the PSP's |
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Posted: 10/16/2014 6:20:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: rocketrepairguy]
[#45]
Powder Valley is cheaper Part # PPB257PSP100 PRVI .257 100 GR PSP (100) $18.33
http://powdervalleyinc.com/ |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 10/19/2014 11:37:48 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chewbacca:
Update: I was able to take out the 25 today and I shot some loads that were waaay too hot with the old standard 25-223 chamber. But I felt they would be fine in the new 25-223AR Spec II chamber. My load: 90 gr Game King on top of 26.0 of AA2200 with CCI Magnum Primer loaded to 2.30 COAL. I am using ASC 10rd SS mags. These mags allow 2.3x OAL with no mods and work great (thank you SCPossum1 for the suggestion) Mags: DISCLAIMER: DON"T USE THIS LOAD! This load I feel is fine in MY RIFLE ONLY. I am using the new 25-223AR Spec II chamber, have a low mass carrier and adjustable gas system. This load is probably downright dangerous in the standard 25-223 chamber, especially if loaded to the old standard of 2.26. So again, this is for my rifle only.. The rifle: http://i58.tinypic.com/24g2bs9.jpg http://i58.tinypic.com/2hqvthw.jpg The Chrony: http://i61.tinypic.com/2zi5xxz.jpg The brass: http://i61.tinypic.com/2zs9x6q.jpg On paper at 100: http://i58.tinypic.com/2je60du.jpg Obviously not quite zeroed. I ended up shooting around 65 rounds zeroing the scope and red-dot and blasted various loads. No malfunctions and recoil is so mild I can maintain scope picture when firing. Overall I am excited about the results. I have some 87 Hot Core and 100 Hot Core to test next. Both of these bullets are the shortest for their given weight, and that's a good thing as it allows more room for powder. The 87 is shorter than the 90 GK has a better BC and is more robust than the GK, making it potentially ideal for this cartridge (at least for my intentions).. but that is to come later. I don't know why the pics are sideways. Any updates? |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 10/19/2014 9:20:58 PM EDT
[#47]
First range day with the 25-45. I ran an OCW ladder with Speer 100gr HotCor. I used AA2200 in 0.2gr increments from 23.0 to 24.2. Accuracy was good, best group was roughly 3/4" at 100 yards, but I'm extremely disappointed in the speeds - the hottest load only averaged 2553 fps. I was hoping to get a 100gr bullet to 2850, as a slightly better hunting load than an 87gr bullet going 3000. I'm really hoping this is just the new barrel not being broken in yet. :(
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NY, USA
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Posted: 10/19/2014 11:14:31 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kevwil:
First range day with the 25-45. I ran an OCW ladder with Speer 100gr HotCor. I used AA2200 in 0.2gr increments from 23.0 to 24.2. Accuracy was good, best group was roughly 3/4" at 100 yards, but I'm extremely disappointed in the speeds - the hottest load only averaged 2553 fps. I was hoping to get a 100gr bullet to 2850, as a slightly better hunting load than an 87gr bullet going 3000. I'm really hoping this is just the new barrel not being broken in yet. :( Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kevwil:
First range day with the 25-45. I ran an OCW ladder with Speer 100gr HotCor. I used AA2200 in 0.2gr increments from 23.0 to 24.2. Accuracy was good, best group was roughly 3/4" at 100 yards, but I'm extremely disappointed in the speeds - the hottest load only averaged 2553 fps. I was hoping to get a 100gr bullet to 2850, as a slightly better hunting load than an 87gr bullet going 3000. I'm really hoping this is just the new barrel not being broken in yet. :( Hi Kevwill, I think that 2850 fps is pretty optimistic. I think with a 20 inch barrel 2650 to 2700 is doable but not 2850 fps.. Here are the some load data for 100gr Sierra ProHunters and A2200 originally posted on page 35. 25 g of 2550 fps with 24g of 2200 is about what I was getting with the 100gr Sierra ProHunters. Good Luck with your project. Originally Posted By 320pf:
I finally got my hands on two new powders (AA220 and Norma 210) that I thought might show promise for the 25-223AR. THE STANDARD DISCLAIMER USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.... WORK UP SLOWLY Here are the results for Norma 201: Norma 201 (16-inch 1:10 barrel) Load g––- velocity fps 23.0––––––-2150 23.5––––––-2220 24.0––––––-2260 24.5––––––-2340 25.0––––––-2380 25.5––––––-2430 26.0––––––-2470* *case pretty much full This was just a velocity run, I did not shot these for groups. Overall the velocities are not the impressive. Here are the results for AA2200: AA2200 (16-inch 1:10 barrel) Load g––- velocity fps 22.0––––––-2260 22.5––––––-2310 23.0––––––-2380 23.5––––––-2440 24.0––––––-2520 24.5––––––-2610* *MAX OR SLIGHTLY OVER MAX LOAD This was also just a velocity run and were not shot for groups. I plan on working up this powder (AA220) a bit more to see how it groups etc.. 320pf |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 10/20/2014 12:35:44 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 320pf:
I think that 2850 fps is pretty optimistic. I think with a 20 inch barrel 2650 to 2700 is doable but not 2850 fps.. Yes, I'm getting the feeling that SRC is full of horse puckey. And I'm the butt of the joke. Their claim is 3000fps with the 87gr HotCor, which would have 1739 ft-lbs of energy. Based on that, I would think that stepping up in bullet weight by 13gr should only drop the muzzle velocity 100-200 fps, not 450. Right now my energy is about 1447 ft-lbs and it drops below 1000 right around 200 yards. That's only slightly better than my 300 blackout, and nowhere near the almost 1800 ft-lbs I was hoping for. The energy of the 100gr load, assuming 2850, would carry 1000+ ft-lbs past 400 yards, which is what I thought made this a worth-while project. Feeling quite foolish tonight. 
I'll try some H335 or RL7 if I can ever find any, and I'll try some 87gr bullets to see if the gained speed is worthwhile. I don't think I'm going to believe their suggested recipe of 29 gr of X-Terminator (using a drop tube) - fool me once, etc. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 2:09:27 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kevwil:
First range day with the 25-45. I ran an OCW ladder with Speer 100gr HotCor. I used AA2200 in 0.2gr increments from 23.0 to 24.2. Accuracy was good, best group was roughly 3/4" at 100 yards, but I'm extremely disappointed in the speeds - the hottest load only averaged 2553 fps. I was hoping to get a 100gr bullet to 2850, as a slightly better hunting load than an 87gr bullet going 3000. I'm really hoping this is just the new barrel not being broken in yet. :( 2850 is not going to happen. My brother went out this weekend and he has the updated 25-223 AR Spec II chamber, and was getting 2750 ave with two different 100 gr bullets on top of 25.0 of AA2200 with a mag primer out of his 20" barrel. I was hoping for more, but that seems about all this case can do. |
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