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Posted: 11/30/2005 10:54:31 PM EDT
[#1]
I bought a Beowolf form Cabelas and about the same time bought a 458. Liked them both, didn't really have anything to compare them to. During the time that I had them I shot a coyote with each, both roughly 100yds out. I got rid of the Beo the following week. I mainly based my choice on the preformance of each in a comparable situation. BTW, I don't reload so I am stuck with factory ammo.
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Posted: 12/19/2005 4:19:56 PM EDT
[#2]
beowulf...
why? cause that's what i just ordered and i hope i didn't make a mistake - strenght in numbers...  s. tank 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 12/30/2005 1:24:56 AM EDT
[#3]
I have owed a Beowulf for a couple of years and love it.
After some badgering , and with Arne's (competition shooting sports) help we got Bill Alexander to release new loadings for the Sierra 350 and 400 grain bullets. Those are published now, and there are a bunch of other new loadings published as well. Point : Why is everyone complaining about lack of available loadings? The range is from the lightweight new loads demonstrated this year at Blackwater, all the way up to tho 500 grain steel tipped DG rounds. And what is anyone going to take a shot at beyond 100 yards ? 200 yards ? In Florida we shoot hogs at usually 50 yards , sometimes less. Ask an experienced deer hunter what the average range is of 99 percent of the deer shot in this country and you may be surprized to find it is 100 yards or less. Reloading : Brass is cheap as dirt, and you can get 500 334 grain Rainier bullets for $65. The case doesn't stretch or require constant resizing, therefore less work. Mags require almost nothing to modify (widen the front feed lips a hair, that's it) so that's not a big issue either. My 2 cents. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 1/4/2006 2:17:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Paje]
[#4]
Good thread (overall) ~ good pro's and cons on the vs.
I've been waiting on the LW .499 (Group Buy) and am thinking it's just not gonna happen. So, I am reaching the point of diminsihing returns of the piston sys vs these direct impingement models and am evaluating the .458 & .50Beo. I see that the RockRiver Arms' offering is as yet unavailble. Does anyone have inside scoop or predicitions on that pricing and ETA? Cost, of course, is a factor and I think it may be helpful to throw some real numbers out here so others perusing this thread can get a ballpark idea (many configs/options + prices always being subject to change). .50 Beowulf OVERMATCH UPPER $562 .458 SOCOM 16" Carbine Uppers $705 |
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Posted: 1/5/2006 12:20:05 AM EDT
[#5]
Rock River is set to reveal their offerings and prices at SHOT here in February (9th-12th). To that end I will be there to answer any final questions that might remain. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 1/5/2006 11:47:07 AM EDT
[#6]
Thanks for the reply Marty! I guess I may was well keep my comfy spot on the fence here until after SHOT to suss out my big-bore AR upper options. Nice to have options.
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Posted: 1/11/2006 7:34:38 PM EDT
[#7]
I am looking at one or the other myself. Just a few questions.
Which one would put a bigger hole in a hog? Do both use standard AR mags (223)? WHich is more accurate at longer distances? Thanks, Mike |
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Posted: 1/11/2006 9:28:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Cold]
[#8]
hogs you say....well...I have pics posted here somewhere, I think page 3  for hogs I LOVE the 458 SOCOM, heres why, I can change up my bullet array, 300 grain hollow points, 350 grain rem soft points, 405 grain barnes X, 400 grain ROUND NOSE BRASS SOLID (a frickin elephant round, also LOADED BY CORBON!), 600 grain sub sonic soft point. Needless to say the variety is in your favor, now...CORBON does hold 3 solid hunting loads, personally, I like using barnes X bullet, that for me at least, is the best hunting bullet out there. IF you want more pics, I can post lots of dead hogs here... |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 1/15/2006 6:29:45 PM EDT
[#9]
Well, after much reading on the topic I've decided to make my first post. Yay. I've been looking into the three different big bores (.50 Beowulf, .500 Phantom, and the .458 SOCOM). I've definately settled on a Teppo Jutsu product. Being a hand loader the projectile choices of the Phantom and the SOCOM that vastly outnumber that of the Beowulf is a large plus. Not to mention the amount of interaction that the creator has with the large following is amazing (Kudos Marty). Now my next dilemma is the .458 SOCOM vs. the Phantom. If I wish to go for the AR-15 Phantom my time for decision is limited (the group buy) and the price is high. I guess i'm looking for some recommendations between the two, sorry if this reply is in the wrong place but I didn't want to start a whole new "VS." thread.
Also, i've been unable to find any sabots for the .458. I really like the .308 projectile in .50 brass, but can't find anything similiar for the .458. Any ideas? Thanks. -Chris |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 1/15/2006 10:31:16 PM EDT
[#10]
Excellent thread. I've been wondering if anyone has tried to sabot the Beowulf to use the .458 rounds or maybe stepping even farther down the chain to something even smaller. I know the purpose of having a .50 is to use large cal rounds, but wouldn't it be nice to use something a bit smaller for a high performance round out of an AR-15. Sabot's are a less than perfect solution in most cases, but if properly done, they sure can be fun and might not lose too much in the accuracy department.
www.mmpsabots.com/ These folks make two different grades of sabot for the .50 cal and one is .002" different dia from the other. Seems like one of those would be ideal to use on the Beowulf cartridge. One is cut to be used ideally with the .458 round as well. Seems like an ideal way to get cheaper initial cost and still get versatility out the wazoo for special purpose handloads etc. Seems like you'd get a touch more powder into the case as well, but the sabot might take up a bit of that room. If you're gonna shoot hogs at 50 yards, a nicely saboted .458 from a beowulf should be more than adequate no? Of course, reliability could be an issue, but the jury is still out at the moment. Anyone tried handloads of this nature with the beowulf? 
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IN, USA
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Posted: 1/27/2006 7:45:53 PM EDT
[#11]
I want to jump in on this discussion. I'm not trying to take a side...I want to raise a concern and see if there is any basis for it. Its my understanding that most .458 bullets are designed to be used in magnum hunting rifles. It seems that the bullet construction would allow for bullets to be pushed at 2500+ fps and get optimal expansion, so what happens when you have to launch these same bullets at 1500-2000 fps? Do you get good expansion, or do you basically have a bullet that acts as a solid? IN my mind, it seems like the beowulf may have an advantage. You can shoot 50 AE bullets that are designed to expamd at lower velocities.
While I'm asking about bullets, is the lead and lube from hard cast bullets compatable with either caliber? Does the presence of the gas port present an issue with using a non-jacketed bullet. Part of my interest is not only for a hunting gun, but a awsome home defense gun...my thought is that if the lighter bullets can be down loaded by 25-30% (300 grain HP bullets at 1400-1500 fps) you will have a wonderful man stopper that should cut down on over penetration as well as reduce recoil for follow up shots. My question, how much can you "down-load" either of these rounds and still have 100% reliability? |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 2:15:59 AM EDT
[#12]
A good question to ask, but one thing you may want to consider is that a LOT of the lighter .458 bullets out there were designed not for use in the big magnum cartridges, but in the venerable .45-70. Given that the .458 SOCOM can rival the .45-70 in terms of muzzle velocity for the lighter projectiles, the bullets expand just fine. As a matter of fact, here is a 300 gr JHP that made a trip lengthwise through a white tail  This is the Barnes 300 gr X fired at 1800 fps muzzle velocity into a clay back stop at 50 yards  Here are several projectiles after encountering a Level IIIa vest at 25 yards.  Note that the 300 JHP penetrated the front and was recovered against the inside of the back panel. The other two rounds dumped all their energy on the front. The three that were not recovered ... the projectiles exited the back and traveled on down range never to be seen again ... Indeed the heavier bullets will not expand (as you can see) but we are relying upon them to tumble to perform their wounding or their suggested use is for other than stopping flesh (eg stopping vehicles) in this cartridge. This wounding mechanism was confirmed for the .338 Spectre by Reed's Ammunition and Research, showing a 300 SMK traveling through 24" of gel at 1040 fps, tumbling and making 3 or so complete "flips". If over penetration is the main concern, SinterFire makes a frangible bullet in both the .458 and .500 (both are 300 gr) that should meet your needs. Down loading is not an issue but the field results from hunting seem to show that it is not necessary. One shot "stop and drop" kills seem to be the norm without over penetration with the expanding type bullets (JHP). Hope this helps |
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Posted: 2/9/2006 4:36:17 PM EDT
[#13]
And I just placed my order this morning. This will be my second .458 SOCOM upper. I purchased one from the GP that Cold ran back in '04 and while I enjoyed it I did run into some issues. I ran into feed problems with 30 round mags and was forced to use either USGI 20 round (7 round .458 SOCOM) mags or 10 round (4 round .458 SOCOM) Bushmaster mags. So I traded the upper for another AR. I since learned that the guy I traded the upper to put a Wolff action spring in his lower and has resolved all of his feed problems (something that I think someone might have suggested to me at one time). So, I am now getting back into the .458 SOCOM game and this time I am getting a Wolff Extra Power Action Spring (I ordered that this morning as well). The .458 SOCOM is a super fun gun to shoot. The upper that I got from Marty cloverleafed like nothing I've ever seen before. I got 4 shoot groups at 50 yards with that thing where all 4 rounds almost went in the same hole. Literally! |
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Posted: 2/9/2006 9:02:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: gunnut003]
[#14]
The RRA gas block looks ghetto, and the gap between the block and handguard bugs me... anyone know if there is a gap between teh A2 FSB and the handguards????
 I WILL get ONE of the 458socom.com uppers cuz of SS and the PNW climate...if for no other reason...to piss off my uncle with EBRsEDIT: thanks for letting me vent 
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Posted: 2/11/2006 8:20:23 PM EDT
[#15]
Since the RRA uses a twist rate for LEO's to use a 600 gr subsonic in, does anyone make .458 suppressors?
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Posted: 2/12/2006 12:51:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Patience my friend. SRT already has made one or two but some interesting people are forging ahead after the T&E upper started shooting at 0945 and 800-odd rounds later in the Nevada Desert stopped when the range was closed. Zero failures, zero malfunctions, lots of grins and bruised shoulders .... we might see some very nice cans in the foreseeable future. |
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Posted: 2/13/2006 3:34:12 AM EDT
[#17]
So this is why Midway is out of brass 
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Posted: 2/16/2006 10:26:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SHIVAN]
[#18]
Is Derek still making cans???
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OR, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2006 1:22:08 AM EDT
[#19]
I decided on the .50 Beo. The Aimpoint was right on the money out of the box. Don't you love it when that happens. The front sight had to be turned around but it works great that way. Its a lot of fun to shoot that kinda power out if a 16" AR.
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Posted: 2/24/2006 10:19:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Cold]
[#20]
Since Overbored untacked the 458 SOCOM thread, it will prolly fall to the wayside, ill move my info about hunting with the 458 SOCOM here. I think both the 458 SOCOM and the 50 Beowulf have HUGE hunting potential, its just a matter of getting the exposure.
The 458 SOCOM for me, at least, is MY big medicine gun (thanks Teddy Roosevelt), to date I have anchored to the earth the following 7 hogs...updated 1/12/06 so here is the blood trail the first hog left...    and heres the hog below              Up coming hunts with the 458 SOCOM... Black Bear in May of 06 HERE IS SOME VIDEO OF A PIG I DRILLED WITH THE 458 homepage.mac.com/jonesja/iMovieTheater11.html more video comming soon... 10/15/05 Pic of ram taken with 458 SOCOM 300 grain CORBON load   10/28/05 Coons...yea they dont like the 458 SOCOM either....  458 SOCOM rounds currently used by me for hunting purposes  from left to right: Boar Skull (that boar was shot with my 458 SOCOM), empty .499 LW brass (for compairson), empty 50 Beowulf (for compairson), empty 458 SOCOM case (for compairson), 66 grain hollowpoint Sabot, 72 grain Sierra Match Game King Sabot, , 300 grain CORBON load, 400 grain Brass round nose CORBON load, 400 grain Barnes X, 200 grain Jada Hollow Core round (with Plug), 405 grain remington softpoint, 600 Grain Soft Point factory CORBON load, 300 grain .499 LW (for compairson, and for compairson 300 grain 45-70 Gov't loaded by Winchester. Feel free to contact me regarding hunting with the 458 SOCOM!!! |
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USA
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Posted: 3/2/2006 1:06:24 AM EDT
[#21]
what type of flash hider would fit on the barrel. Also how much was your upper spooky
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Posted: 4/4/2006 1:57:56 AM EDT
[#22]
Tromix A1 YHM Phantom SEI Vortex Spooky started with a GB upper and upgraded to DD rails, DuraCoat, Vortex. Then he added some stuff himself. Not sure how much the grand total was. |
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Posted: 4/15/2006 2:20:02 AM EDT
[#23]
I like the versatility of the 458 SOCOM and the fact that you don't have to modify mags. However, one thought that came to my mind when looking at these calibers is that since the 458 SOCOM is a bottle necked case, carbide dies probably aren't available. Meaning that you probably need to lube each case when resizing. In this respect, I guess that the Beowulf is easier to load on a progressive press. Is this the case?
Also, just wondering about the number of times each case can be reloaded for each caliber. |
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Posted: 4/15/2006 1:51:05 PM EDT
[#24]
Not aware of carbine dies for either caliber, but the 50 may have them... indeed, lube each case, as I have stuck two or three after forgetting that little part ... in terms of reloads per case, Banzai just retired his first batch of 500 cases that has 10 reloads per ... I still am using some of my original brass from the 2000 prototype batch .... I set about 25 aside for nostalgic reasons, the rest gets used as any other. |
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Posted: 4/15/2006 4:07:31 PM EDT
[#25]
I was speaking to a friend today who has tried both calibers. He noted that the Beowulf is not as punishing to shoot as the SOCOM.
Do you need to trim the Beowulf brass often? I was leaning towards the SOCOM, but I think I may go for the Beowulf instead. Especially if I can eventually toss the brass on the Dillon and crank out rounds at a decent pace. I really hate using a single stage press for anything but precision reloading. |
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Posted: 4/15/2006 4:20:11 PM EDT
[#26]
I don't find my 458 Socom punishing. I have tried it on my M16 in full auto. Too bad the mags don't hold a lot of rounds.
I have an 11 3/4 barrel with a Vortex flash hider. It is a gread brush gun. I use a Dillon for all my reloading except some rifle, to include the 458 Socom. I believe there was a post with which parts to buy so it can be loaded on the Dillon. I think there is a slightly wider variety of bullets available for the 458 Socom (from cheap to exspensive). I had a chance for the 50 BW, but the only reason to own it is to say you have a 50. Otherwise go with the 458 Socom. Marty is a great guy to do business with and I would recommend him. He also has some other neat projects that I would like to obtain, but money is slowing me down. Mike |
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Posted: 4/16/2006 10:21:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MartytW]
[#27]
One item I forgot to mention for the Dillon-using folks. The 50 Beowulf requires an extra part on the press, but I do not recall what it was. The SOCOM doesn't need that part, but can't use carbide dies. So as you can see, they each have their challenges... Edited now that Bill has posted what that part was that is needed. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2006 10:44:20 PM EDT
[#28]
Check out this link: http://www.lamperdlesslethal.com/product_details.asp?ID=95
This is a new upper that shoots .50 caliber "Less Lethal" ammo! It's very accurate out to 40 yds! Works with standard AR lower. And you can shoot it in your basement! NR |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2006 11:48:10 PM EDT
[#29]
Well, I finally jumped on the .458 bandwagon
... What a fun gun to shoot! It's gonna fill it's short range purpose very well. I need different scope - this was temporary and mounted too low. 50 yard, 7 shot group was 1.63" (minus flyer). 50 yard, 3 shot group was 1.52".Still need: C1 shorty stock, eotech, buis, flash hider, then maybe a trick Dura-coat hob...  Thanks Castle Arms! And thanks Marty!
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/29/2006 10:07:26 AM EDT
[#30]
Anyone wanting to load Beowulf on the Dillon with the auto case feeder should call Dillon. They have a rocker bar set up to allow the cases to feed easily.
Bill Alexander |
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Posted: 5/10/2006 11:11:48 AM EDT
[#31]
 50 beowulf Thanks Bill.......... |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 5/26/2006 3:00:38 PM EDT
[#32]
Here's a pic of my golf shirt after a .458 SOCOM mag dump courtesy Tony Rumore.
http://www.tromix.com/Action_Tromix.htm |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 5/31/2006 4:59:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Reginhild]
[#33]
Here is my Beowulf:
http://bergphoto.smugmug.com/photos/59409291-M.jpg The ATN sight has been returned since it could not handle the recoil and stay sighted in. I now have the new Bushnell Trophy Tactical that looks like a Trijicon ACOG - it has worked well. Unfortunately most Beowulf and Grendel fans have migrated to the dedicated websites www.50beowulf.com and www.65grendel.com I myself now only visit AR15.com once every several months and find that this site has become the place for the 6.8 SPC and .458 SOCOM fans to hang out since they do not have dedicated web sites with forums. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 6/3/2006 10:08:27 PM EDT
[#34]
[Matthew Quigley voice] Major. We already run the misfits outta ARFCOM. We sent 'em back to their own websites.[/Matthew Quigley voice] 
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Posted: 6/4/2006 3:01:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Cold]
[#35]
Honestly...tool |
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Posted: 6/4/2006 3:11:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Cold]
[#36]
double post...
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Posted: 6/4/2006 3:18:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: okguy91]
[#37]
Like was said how a bout a 45 -70 444 marlin or 44 mag lever gun in ss. I have a malin ltd 16" ss barrel 41 mags. It hold 8 +1 and will bunch a 3/4" hole in 1/4" steel plate at 200 yards. Bill ruger was useing a 44 mag rifle on large game over seas. 44 mag and 41 mag kick like a 22mag out a 6 lbs rifle.
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Posted: 6/4/2006 6:48:44 PM EDT
[#38]
So bottum line, do you need dedicated mags for the Beowolf.
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KS, USA
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Posted: 6/5/2006 12:04:14 PM EDT
[#39]
Why isn't anyone making a dedicated site and forum for the 6.8 SPC and .458 SOCOM? There is a pretty good 6.8 FAQ site - all is needed is a dedicated forum as well. |
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Posted: 6/5/2006 1:32:18 PM EDT
[#40]
well, I was told by the guys who own 458SOCOM.com awhile back that I could be "authorized" to creat the 458 SOCOM forum, but I have since been busy with other things, I may have to just get it going to shut these "I have a 50 wulf form" types up 
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Posted: 6/5/2006 6:37:44 PM EDT
[#41]
You have my blessing (to start the forum), I just don't have enough time to check here AND moderate over there (wherever "there" might end up being) so you would have to have volunteers to assist. I would think perhaps folks like Bearbait might be willing to help moderate, time permitted. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 6/6/2006 9:13:17 AM EDT
[#42]
Well I would rather it not be moved to another site! Not that my opinion really matters, but ARFCOM is a great place and our 458's are AR-15' after all right? We got our own forum here - it's just got some other guys posting about thier stuff on it also. I like reading some of thier stuff too while I'm lookin at 458 stuff. |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 6/6/2006 10:54:18 AM EDT
[#43]
Or you can just post witty quips like "Honestly...tool" |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 6/6/2006 6:28:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bub_The_Zombie]
[#44]
Does anyone know what the outside diameter of the .50 Beowulf barrel is? I am trying to find gas blocks and front sights that will fit it! -Bub-
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Posted: 6/6/2006 8:22:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Cold]
[#45]
Ok, I added the tounge face as a sign of joking nature. No harm was intended my friend, were all here to enjoy the big bore AR's we know and love. |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 6/7/2006 8:53:55 AM EDT
[#46]
Roger that Cold, enjoyment of big bore rifles is a commonality that bands us together even with our little differences.
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CO, USA
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Posted: 6/7/2006 3:04:11 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 6/26/2006 9:38:16 PM EDT
[#48]
Complete TROMIX 458 SOCOM Rifle with integral suppressor from TROMIX.
  
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Posted: 6/27/2006 4:21:24 PM EDT
[#49]
That thing is just plain slick IceHandLuke!
Also, for those of you 458 SOCOM owners who have YET TO SIGN UP, get your big bores over to this site 458 SOCOM Forums See ya there! Also, IceHandLuke, what round does that gun like the best? |
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