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Posted: 2/27/2014 7:29:11 PM EDT
I bought SKU #39593 from you guys and it says the barrel is treated with Melonite. However, Hoppe's #9 bore cleaner takes the black finish right off. In a different thread, there are currently two other users fighting as to whether the black is the actual Melonite, or if it's just a residue that comes off.
This is what I was able to do to mine: So is this really a Melonite barrel, or was it mislabeled? I don't care if it's black or stainless, I care that it's Melonite. |
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I have no idea what that coating is... I will say its NOTHING like my melonite PTAC barrel.
The melonite finish on my barrel is a nice dark grey/black color that is super smooth almost slick, it does not look like or feel like a coating... feels like its part of the metal to the touch unlike a regular phosphate finished barrel that feels like a coating. As a comparison. My melonite PTAC barrel looks very much like the tenifer finish on my Glock barrels and slides, from what I understand they are very similar processes. I don't use #9 or any other bore "cleaner" on the outside of the barrel normally... CLP on the outside for me. Anyway, just to see, I put some #9 and hoppe's bore scrubber on a Q-tip and rubbed a small area of my barrel... as expected it did nothing to the melonite. I wiped both cleaners off with a white paper towel... no color transfer. I hope PSA makes this right for you. |
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Holy crap... that is NOT melonite. Melonite can loose it's luster or black with wear, but is impervious to solvents (Glocks use the same treatment under their name of "Tenifer", and you won't see one of THOSE fade like that). Tennifer/Melonite is a treatment (not a coating) which goes INTO the metal (changes it's properties). A solvent would NOT be able to strip it. If Hoppe's did that... that's NOT melonite.
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My understanding of melonite is that it is not a coating its a (chemical)change in the surface of the metal that makes it harder etc.. You just dont/cant simply wipe it off with solvent. That looks like Krylon for christ sake.
AL |
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My understanding of melonite is that it is not a coating its a (chemical)change in the surface of the metal that makes it harder etc.. You just dont/cant simply wipe it off with solvent. That looks like Krylon for christ sake. AL View Quote Or maybe it's just the bore that is melonite. The outside is coated like any other....In phosphate IDK |
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That is not melonite. Melonite does not come off, the entire barrel is dunked in the solution and the solution changes the properties of the steel and becomes part of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferritic_nitrocarburizing |
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That is not melonite. Melonite does not come off, the entire barrel is dunked in the solution and the solution changes the properties of the steel and becomes part of it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferritic_nitrocarburizing View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
That is not melonite. Melonite does not come off, the entire barrel is dunked in the solution and the solution changes the properties of the steel and becomes part of it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferritic_nitrocarburizing Interesting from the wiki After the Tenifer process, a black Parkerized finish is applied and the slide is protected even if the finish were to wear off. |
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That is not melonite. Melonite does not come off, the entire barrel is dunked in the solution and the solution changes the properties of the steel and becomes part of it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferritic_nitrocarburizing View Quote this. |
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OP, are you positive that isn't battery acid in that Hoppe's bottle? ;)
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I noticed the description on this product states 4140 melonite finish.
Others just say melonite finish... Wonder what thay is about... |
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I was also unable to get a clean bore patch through the barrel with the same cleaner. It would always come out a little black.
EDIT: My hope is that the black is just an iron oxide residue. I honestly don't care that the barrel is stainless. |
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I was also unable to get a clean bore patch through the barrel with the same cleaner. It would always come out a little black. View Quote How many did you run through? A dirty patch or two is normal. I've never gotten a new barrel that wasn't a little dirty. Also, I think PSA test fires them for gas function too. However, if multiple patches come out black....oh lawd. lol Edit: If the barrel was stainless, they wouldn't have coated it with anything bud. They would usually keep the finish stainless if it was a stainless barrel. The 4140 in the description would indicate a 4140 steel barrel, which is a pretty common grade of steel for barrels. |
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The chamber makes it look like it wasn't test fired. Absolutely no carbon residue in there when I got it. I put several patches through after running a plastic bore brush through several times.
EDIT: I don't care if the barrel is black or shiny. I care that it has Melonite's qualities. |
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If thats what Hoppe's does try some Butch's Bore Shine, it may eat right through the barrel.
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Perhaps it is the bore that is melonite. View Quote that would be rather difficult when you watch how melonite treatment is applied. The entire barrel is submerged. would not make sense to take the extra step to seal the outer barrel from the melonite process. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjbOZAx2mw |
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I did some Googling on the topic of hoppes 9 and melonite.
Here is a short thread where the guy had a problem getting a clean patch. http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=544476 After a lot of reading, I am led to believe that it is impossible to remove the melonite... Your barrel seems strange. |
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Here is another hhowever that may disagree.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/210198-hoppes-9-will-damage-governor.html |
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I bought SKU #39593 from you guys and it says the barrel is treated with Melonite. However, Hoppe's #9 bore cleaner takes the black finish right off. In a different thread, there are currently two other users fighting as to whether the black is the actual Melonite, or if it's just a residue that comes off. This is what I was able to do to mine: http://www.wswartzendruber.name/images/removing-melonite-black.jpg So is this really a Melonite barrel, or was it mislabeled? I don't care if it's black or stainless, I care that it's Melonite. View Quote The PTAC upper receivers advertised as such are melonite treated and to my knowledge, Hoppe's #9 shouldn't wipe the finish off of the upper as the process of meloniting a barrel changes the chemical properties of the barrel to enhance its durability. However, one of the active ingredients in Hoppe's #9 is ammonia and it's known to have a somewhat corrosive effect on melonite. In any case, we are currently looking into the issue and if you can, please send a message to my inbox containing your order number. Thank you. Update by PSA: We took a melonite 300 Blackout upper off the shelf and soaked the end of the barrel in Hoppes Bore solvent for 2 hours with no effect on the color of the finish. We are not sure of the difference in our bore solvent from OP's. As there are warnings about using Hoppes on melonite due to the ammonia content, we recommend using another cleaner to be safe. |
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I tried reaching out to Burlington Engineering, Inc. about this, but their info e-mail address is kicking back messages as undeliverable.
EDIT: I also tried using the support form from their website, but submitting an inquiry like that results in a HTTP 404 error. Those guys are all sorts of jacked up.
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I had case foam melted onto my melonited barrel, soaked in Hoppe's #9 then cleaned the foam off. No damage what so ever. Soaked bore with Hoppes same result.
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The answer is obvious, OP. I can tell just by looking at the picture... that's a 300 BLACKOUT barrel. You've just taken the BLACKOUT.
Ba-dump-tsss But in all seriousness, is there any possibility that you "cleaned" that barrel using steel wool? |
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I tried reaching out to Burlington Engineering, Inc. about this, but their info e-mail address is kicking back messages as undeliverable. EDIT: I also tried using the support form from their website, but submitting an inquiry like that results in a HTTP 404 error. Those guys are all sorts of jacked up. View Quote The thread I linked earlier shows an announcement from S&W about hoppes 9 not being safe for many of their firearms. Particulary it mentions the governor. Apparently it is a melonite finish. |
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If not Hoppes then what should people use? I've used Hoppes for years without issues and now use Butch's Bore Shine (which has way more ammonia).
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White vinegar will do that to melonite. I've seen folks over at mp-pistol.com use it to their advantage when they want to turn parts silver. No idea why hoppes would do it though. I've never had hoppes strip melonite.
ETA: PTAC is killing the PSA brand slowly but surely. This is just a sub-par finish and part no matter what it is. |
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White vinegar will do that to melonite. I've seen folks over at mp-pistol.com use it to their advantage when they want to turn parts silver. No idea why hoppes would do it though. I've never had hoppes strip melonite. ETA: PTAC is killing the PSA brand slowly but surely. This is just a sub-par finish and part no matter what it is. View Quote this is what im afraid of. the hard won quality reputation that PSA has, is dwindling fast among some. all because of PTAC QC. While ive had no issues with Ptac at all, others have had issues that there are no excuses for. |
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I am starting to think that PTAC might be a new name change for Hesse and Vulcan.
AL |
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I used Hoppes and Shooters Choice for years on my Glock Barrels and never seen this issue. I am interested in the explanation. It does not make sense to me that Melonite is so fragile to the most readily available gun care products on the market.
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I used Hoppes and Shooters Choice for years on my Glock Barrels and never seen this issue. I am interested in the explanation. It does not make sense to me that Melonite is so fragile to the most readily available gun care products on the market. View Quote I agree. Hoppes is perhaps the most widely used product on the planet. folks love the stuff. if melonite is that fragile, tis a bad deal . I am concerned with how PTAC is still so problematic. its not good signs for PSA at all. |
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I agree. Hoppes is perhaps the most widely used product on the planet. folks love the stuff. if melonite is that fragile, tis a bad deal . I am concerned with how PTAC is still so problematic. its not good signs for PSA at all. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I used Hoppes and Shooters Choice for years on my Glock Barrels and never seen this issue. I am interested in the explanation. It does not make sense to me that Melonite is so fragile to the most readily available gun care products on the market. I agree. Hoppes is perhaps the most widely used product on the planet. folks love the stuff. if melonite is that fragile, tis a bad deal . I am concerned with how PTAC is still so problematic. its not good signs for PSA at all. I really think they should kill off the PTAC line. I am guessing it is one of the owner's family members who is making these things in their garage or small rented workspace. It makes no sense why they would sell ghetto uppers when they sell so many good ones at affordable prices that get purchased within hours of them being listed on the website. And for the people comparing SW firearm finishes: SW should also not be cited as any sort of standard on modern sporting rifles or defensive handguns. SW is not the same company it used to be and there are good reasons people pay a premium for older SW revolvers over newer production ones. |
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Also not a PTAC fan and agree with JoeJeeps, looks like a poor finish application. Unfortunately PTAC stuff now makes me second guess any future PSA orders. I carefully read their descriptions on Items and if the price seems really good.... I automatically assume they've cut a corner with some PTAC parts. I hate it, I miss the unquestionable quality I used to have for PSA stuff. I know others had complaints back then too, but most had to do with shipping screw ups and not quality issues.
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The PTAC upper receivers advertised as such are melonite treated and to my knowledge, Hoppe's #9 shouldn't wipe the finish off of the upper as the process of meloniting a barrel changes the chemical properties of the barrel to enhance its durability. However, one of the active ingredients in Hoppe's #9 is ammonia and it's known to have a somewhat corrosive effect on melonite. In any case, we are currently looking into the issue and if you can, please send a message to my inbox containing your order number. Thank you. Update by PSA: We took a melonite 300 Blackout upper off the shelf and soaked the end of the barrel in Hoppes Bore solvent for 2 hours with no effect on the color of the finish. We are not sure of the difference in our bore solvent from OP's. As there are warnings about using Hoppes on melonite due to the ammonia content, we recommend using another cleaner to be safe. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I bought SKU #39593 from you guys and it says the barrel is treated with Melonite. However, Hoppe's #9 bore cleaner takes the black finish right off. In a different thread, there are currently two other users fighting as to whether the black is the actual Melonite, or if it's just a residue that comes off. This is what I was able to do to mine: http://www.wswartzendruber.name/images/removing-melonite-black.jpg So is this really a Melonite barrel, or was it mislabeled? I don't care if it's black or stainless, I care that it's Melonite. The PTAC upper receivers advertised as such are melonite treated and to my knowledge, Hoppe's #9 shouldn't wipe the finish off of the upper as the process of meloniting a barrel changes the chemical properties of the barrel to enhance its durability. However, one of the active ingredients in Hoppe's #9 is ammonia and it's known to have a somewhat corrosive effect on melonite. In any case, we are currently looking into the issue and if you can, please send a message to my inbox containing your order number. Thank you. Update by PSA: We took a melonite 300 Blackout upper off the shelf and soaked the end of the barrel in Hoppes Bore solvent for 2 hours with no effect on the color of the finish. We are not sure of the difference in our bore solvent from OP's. As there are warnings about using Hoppes on melonite due to the ammonia content, we recommend using another cleaner to be safe. Sure hope you make your mistake right for the OP, considering you posted no warning against using Hoppes and its probably the most popular solvent on the market. |
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The compound layer of the Melonite treatment is just really week. With a green plastic scouring pad, I've gotten the outer black layer to come off with alcohol and WD-40.
As best I can tell, the diffusion layer is holding steady. What would be really neat, though, is a way to thoroughly strip the compound layer now that it's mostly gone.
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I am more concerned if this is an isolated case or wide spread PTAC "Melonite" issue. I don't remember any other PTAC Melonite owner reports similar issue. I do have one, but still in the box and finish looks more like a dull Parkerizing finish not gloss black like this one in picture. It looks more like a spray paint job to me. A production reject and "rework" with spray paint? Another indication that PTAC line is cost driven and has no QC at all. Ever since I had the rough bore problem, I came to here to read if PTAC line quality is getting better and if I should buy another PTAC. I keep seeing problems. PSA either kill the PTAC line or fix it.
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My bore's been looking a little strange, too. I can never get the inside to be smooth and consistent. I was hoping that stripping the compound layer would also fix that.
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Wait a minute. You used a green scrub pad and Hoppes on the outside? Like a Scotch brite pad? Why? I strip blueing with scotch brite pads. They are way too abrasive for most finishes . I see it happening. Do you clean all your firearms with green scrub pads? This doesn't make sense to me.
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AR Performance barrels warn against bullfrog lube 'discoloring' their barrels.
From their website barrel store page: "Bullfrog products are known to cause discoloration of Melonite surfaces." My AR Performance barrel which has been soaked in CLP doesn't show any of what was in the picture or even suggesting it is going to come off. Anecdotal and CLP isn't part of this discussion but figured it could be used as a data point. I am going to guess AR Performance barrels are in a different league than PTAC though based on what I heard about PTAC. |
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this is what im afraid of. the hard won quality reputation that PSA has, is dwindling fast among some. all because of PTAC QC. While ive had no issues with Ptac at all, others have had issues that there are no excuses for. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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White vinegar will do that to melonite. I've seen folks over at mp-pistol.com use it to their advantage when they want to turn parts silver. No idea why hoppes would do it though. I've never had hoppes strip melonite. ETA: PTAC is killing the PSA brand slowly but surely. This is just a sub-par finish and part no matter what it is. this is what im afraid of. the hard won quality reputation that PSA has, is dwindling fast among some. all because of PTAC QC. While ive had no issues with Ptac at all, others have had issues that there are no excuses for. I agree. They really just need to kill the PTAC line. It's been nothing but problems. |
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Am I the only one that thinks it's crazy to judge the cq given the green pad treatment? Does PSA really need to tell people that a green scrub pad and cleaning solution could be detrimental to the finish of barrels?
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Am I the only one that thinks it's crazy to judge the cq given the green pad treatment? Does PSA really need to tell people that a green scrub pad and cleaning solution could be detrimental to the finish of barrels? View Quote People seem to be of the delusion that melonite finish is indestructible despite several other companies warning against certain products being used on their melonite. Please do not kill PTAC. It is affordable and mine is great. In fact I would like to see more options. |
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My bore's been looking a little strange, too. I can never get the inside to be smooth and consistent. I was hoping that stripping the compound layer would also fix that. View Quote Is yours melonite? Not all PTACS are and several from aroumd Christmas had what appeared to be bad machining in the bores. PSA exchanged them. |
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The scouring pad was used when I decided to remove the rest of the finish. I'm not asking for an exchange. I'm trying to get the rest of the black off.
I created this thread because people in a different thread were asserting that this really isn't Melonite. PSA says it is, so I'm happy.
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People seem to be of the delusion that melonite finish is indestructible despite several other companies warning against certain products being used on their melonite. Please do not kill PTAC. It is affordable and mine is great. In fact I would like to see more options. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Am I the only one that thinks it's crazy to judge the cq given the green pad treatment? Does PSA really need to tell people that a green scrub pad and cleaning solution could be detrimental to the finish of barrels? People seem to be of the delusion that melonite finish is indestructible despite several other companies warning against certain products being used on their melonite. Please do not kill PTAC. It is affordable and mine is great. In fact I would like to see more options. i agree. I am quite happy with my ptac plinkers. |
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