Greetings.  Can anyone recommend a good gunsmith to work on ARs in the LV / Henderson area?

Pls list the type of work you've had, quality of work, satisfaction with the end result, and what type of work you'd recommend.

Mike over at Citadel did a great job on my Bushmaster M4. The gas tube was sheared off and it has Yankee Hill free float tube. He had the correct tools to remove the handguards, has all the correct tools/vices/holders and finished it while I waited.

thanks,
Ron

Quoted: Greetings.  Can anyone recommend a good gunsmith to work on ARs in the LV / Henderson area? Pls list the type of work you've had, quality of work, satisfaction with the end result, and what type of work you'd recommend.

f2,

I have not personally had work done at Black Rifle Armory (as of yet), but I do know that many people I have sent there who are extremely satisfied with BRA.

I do have some personal M4 work that I would like to get done soon, and I am going to drop-off that work to Martin.

Give him a try.

BLACK RIFLE ARMORY
141 Industrial Park Road
Martin Barger, Owner/Operator
07/SOT
Unit #303
Henderson, Nevada 89015
(702) 558-4140

Black Rifle Armory (BRA) is located off of US 95 and LAKE MEAD BLVD., just east of the Fiesta Hotel and Casino in Henderson, Nevada, on INDUSTRIAL PARK ROAD.

Martin is easy to find, easy to deal with, and his wares are easy on the pocket.

Hope this helps.

Be Safe.

Joe

Quoted: Black Rifle Armory (BRA) is located off of US 95 and LAKE MEAD BLVD., just east of the Fiesta Hotel and Casino in Henderson, Nevada, on INDUSTRIAL PARK ROAD. Martin is easy to find, easy to deal with, and his wares are easy on the pocket. Hope this helps. Be Safe. Joe

 Man, that's just down the road.  Thanks.  

Maybe I'll swing by that BRA in the next couple days to check the place out.  Sure is a lot of talk about the place.

f2, what kind of work are you looking to have done?

TO ADD TO MARTINS EXPIERIENCE WITH AR15'S AND M16'S, I HAVE BEEN GUNSMITHING HERE FOR ABOUT 11 YEARS NOW. VERY FEW MISTAKES MADE AND I WILL HONE UP TO MY MISTAKES. I WON'T TELL YOU I CAN DO THE WORK IF I HONESTLY CAN'T. IF I WASN'T ANY GOOD I WOULDN'T BE AT BRA, THOSE WHO KNOW MARTIN WILL TELL YOU HE DOESN'T DEAL WITH HACKS AND HE'S SEEN EVERYONE ELSE'S WORK IN TOWN, I AM THANKFULL HE ASKED ME TO WORK WITH HIM.
WE'D BE GLAD TO TAKE ON ANY WORK YOU MAY HAVE FOR US, AT A FAIR PRICE WITH TOP QUALITY CRAFTSMANSHIP.

Quoted: Quoted: TO ADD TO MARTINS EXPIERIENCE WITH AR15'S AND M16'S, I HAVE BEEN GUNSMITHING HERE FOR ABOUT 11 YEARS NOW. VERY FEW MISTAKES MADE AND I WILL HONE UP TO MY MISTAKES. I WON'T TELL YOU I CAN DO THE WORK IF I HONESTLY CAN'T. IF I WASN'T ANY GOOD I WOULDN'T BE AT BRA, THOSE WHO KNOW MARTIN WILL TELL YOU HE DOESN'T DEAL WITH HACKS AND HE'S SEEN EVERYONE ELSE'S WORK IN TOWN, I AM THANKFULL HE ASKED ME TO WORK WITH HIM. WE'D BE GLAD TO TAKE ON ANY WORK YOU MAY HAVE FOR US, AT A FAIR PRICE WITH TOP QUALITY CRAFTSMANSHIP. C'mon, take off the cap lock....seriously.

+1, My Fuckin' eyes are twitchin'.

hope this is better

I know lots of people like Citadel, but frankly, I've had two experiences with their gunsmith and both have been bad.

1.  Just after the ban ended I enquired about getting the muzzle of my SAR-1 threaded for the AKM slant brake.  He had the gall to tell me it would be $100 because he had to remove the barrel from the action and chuck it up in his lathe to make sure the threads were concentric with the bore.  Well that really pissed me off.  I rented the threading die and muzzle spud for $15 and did it myself.  Turned out perfect.

2.  A friend and I were looking around and the friend started to look at some knives.  Said gunsmith proceeded to tell him that the steel was a special titanium alloy and it would cut through other knives.  

Now I have no actual experience with his work and I must assume that it is good since several people have had work done and they were pleased enough to recommend him.  However, I need a certain amount of trust in a craftsman if I am to first trust his work and second, trust his price.  When I get industrial strength bullshit on 2 out of 2 occasions, I'm not going to give him any work.

Martin over at BRA is a good guy to work with.... Supports what we do in more ways than just his shop, if you know what I mean.  Great to deal with and HONEST.  Prices are very competitive also.
Bought a Gemtech Raptor (still waiting for that one) from him and he did my SBR engraving and it came out like if it were done at the factory.  

Ive yet to see the folks at Black Rifle Armory, but I know Mike the 'smith at Citadel isnt a bad guy.  I can tell he doesnt particularly like to work on AK's. Im no gunsmith but from just looking at those things, they look like a pain in the ass to deal with. I wouldnt want to work on them when there isnt a broad knowlege base on how to work on them unlike the million other shop manuals on other military weapons. Id also like to point out some 'smiths dont want to liability of screwing up someones gun. I think thats why some guys Ive seen turn down work on AK's. You can only polish a turd so much.  Mike has always done right by me. Thats why I keep going back to him.

Quoted: hope this is better

+1

Thanks, DKMKR.

Be Safe.

Joe

Quoted: 1.  Just after the ban ended I enquired about getting the muzzle of my SAR-1 threaded for the AKM slant brake.  He had the gall to tell me it would be $100 because he had to remove the barrel from the action and chuck it up in his lathe to make sure the threads were concentric with the bore.  Well that really pissed me off.  I rented the threading die and muzzle spud for $15 and did it myself.  Turned out perfect.

That's all well and good as long as all you want to do is put a short muzzle brake or flash suppressor on the end of the bore. Problems start whan you decide that you want to put a sound suppressor on the end of the barrel, and your $15 job turns out to be out of true. Then you end up with at best damage to your suppressor, or at worst a dangerous ka-boom.

The 'smith has no idea what you may do to the gun after it leaves his shop, so from a liability standpoint he's going to want to do the job right. Doing the job right takes expertise, and expertise costs money.

When I had my post-ban bushie outfitted with a flash suppressor, I had the job done right by DarkMaker ('zat you C?). Peace of mind is worth it.

I would most assuredly NOT recommend Mike, the Citadel smith.  Two (actually near three) incidents, one including the complete destruction of an NFA device.

Feel free to IM me if you'd like specifics and pictures.  It's a shame; I really liked Citadel, but the hack job done by their smith, and their inability to rectify the problem, has made it really uncomfortable to go there.  I haven't been in several months, and have no intention of going back.

Quoted: Quoted: 1.  Just after the ban ended I enquired about getting the muzzle of my SAR-1 threaded for the AKM slant brake.  He had the gall to tell me it would be $100 because he had to remove the barrel from the action and chuck it up in his lathe to make sure the threads were concentric with the bore.  Well that really pissed me off.  I rented the threading die and muzzle spud for $15 and did it myself.  Turned out perfect. That's all well and good as long as all you want to do is put a short muzzle brake or flash suppressor on the end of the bore. Problems start whan you decide that you want to put a sound suppressor on the end of the barrel, and your $15 job turns out to be out of true. Then you end up with at best damage to your suppressor, or at worst a dangerous ka-boom. The 'smith has no idea what you may do to the gun after it leaves his shop, so from a liability standpoint he's going to want to do the job right. Doing the job right takes expertise, and expertise costs money. When I had my post-ban bushie outfitted with a flash suppressor, I had the job done right by DarkMaker ('zat you C?). Peace of mind is worth it.

Jim, I know what you're getting at, but if you go talk to Mike I think you'll understand why dorsai was bent out of shape.  It would be simple for a smith to say "look, I can do this two ways; one is the rough way which will work fine for your flash suppressor... that way is cheap and fast.  The other way is concentric to the bore and will work if you ever put a can on this thing.  That costs 1/3 the price of the gun."  Then at least he'd have the option.  

But mike isn't like that; he'll tell you at length about the quality of his work, talks about machinework tolerances he can achieve that are just one grade below what NASA requires for aerospace parts. But then turns around and does the worst hatchet job I have ever seen on a metal part.  Hell, I even thought that my problems with him might've been a fluke, so I gave him another shot at it, and it came back even worse! Honestly Jim, if I showed you what the guy worked on you'd be amazed.  The guy just has no idea what he's doing.

This is Mike the smith at Citadel. I have been here at Citadel for about a year now and worked on hundreds of firearms with excellent success. People bring firearms to a gunsmith to have things done to thier firearm they do not want to do themselves. Sometimes things do not turn out perfect. I have done everything to rectify these few instances. I no longer work on class 3 items and have promised to replace the item. That is the best I can do. I appreciate all the business you have given me and will continue to stand by my work.

Quoted: This is Mike the smith at Citadel. I have been here at Citadel for about a year now and worked on hundreds of firearms with excellent success. People bring firearms to a gunsmith to have things done to thier firearm they do not want to do themselves. Sometimes things do not turn out perfect. I have done everything to rectify these few instances. I no longer work on class 3 items and have promised to replace the item. That is the best I can do. I appreciate all the business you have given me and will continue to stand by my work.

Awesome, Mike!  Perhaps now is the time to discuss it publicly; I've tried to avoid doing so, but as time goes on it seems to get harder and harder.  And everyone here will be able to see how we resolve this issue.

Gentlemen, here is the situation.  A little over a year ago I brought in my Tactical Innovations Tac-67 .22 suppressor to Citadel to have it dunked in their ultrasonic cleaning tank.  While there it was decided that to really clean it it should be disassembled, which this can is designed for.  In the process of removing the baffles, sako1 hit the edge of the can with a hammer, putting a wrinkle in the tube and making it impossible to thread the rear endcap back on (not to mention completely ruining the concentricity of the can).  At least one of the baffles was warped by the dowel being used to hammer them out, as well.  But shit happens, and I don't generally get too pissed if someone makes an honest mistake.  Besides, sako1 said he could fix it.

So I gave him a shot to fix it.  I believe the end of the can was turned down a few thousanths and for some reason both the endcaps (not at all damaged prior) were also rethreaded, OVER the existing threads... the endcap mating surfaces are now closer to sawteeth than threads.  The rear endcap can literally be pushed flush into the can, without screwing it on at all.  Needless to say, if anything was salvageable before, it certainly isn't now.


Here's the real trouble with this whole incident:

I've talked to Craig Wheatly, the owner of Tactical Innovations, and he's all for making me another can with the same serial #; the problem is that I bought a special all-steel full auto rated .22 can, and he doesn't have any unmarked tubes laying around to replace mine with.  And since he's having so much success with his new Tac 16 cans, he has no idea when he's going to do another run of steel .22 cans.  I email every two months or so, and I always get the same polite response "sorry, don't have any plans for them in the immediate future..."  I really can't blame Craig, as this isn't his problem to resolve.  (Though I probably won't ever buy one of his cans again, sadly.)

So my issue is that I've been out this suppressor for over a year now, and I'm tired of waiting on other people to get it fixed.  I've tried to be patient and 'reasonable', but that only goes so far. I want another suppressor, or enough money to purchase an equivalent, tax stamp and all.

Quoted: Quoted: This is Mike the smith at Citadel. I have been here at Citadel for about a year now and worked on hundreds of firearms with excellent success. People bring firearms to a gunsmith to have things done to thier firearm they do not want to do themselves. Sometimes things do not turn out perfect. I have done everything to rectify these few instances. I no longer work on class 3 items and have promised to replace the item. That is the best I can do. I appreciate all the business you have given me and will continue to stand by my work. Awesome, Mike!  Perhaps now is the time to discuss it publicly; I've tried to avoid doing so, but as time goes on it seems to get harder and harder.  And everyone here will be able to see how we resolve this issue. Gentlemen, here is the situation.  A little over a year ago I brought in my Tactical Innovations Tac-67 .22 suppressor to Citadel to have it dunked in their ultrasonic cleaning tank.  While there it was decided that to really clean it it should be disassembled, which this can is designed for.  In the process of removing the baffles, sako1 hit the edge of the can with a hammer, putting a wrinkle in the tube and making it impossible to thread the rear endcap back on (not to mention completely ruining the concentricity of the can).  At least one of the baffles was warped by the dowel being used to hammer them out, as well.  But shit happens, and I don't generally get too pissed if someone makes an honest mistake.  Besides, sako1 said he could fix it. So I gave him a shot to fix it.  I believe the end of the can was turned down a few thousanths and for some reason both the endcaps (not at all damaged prior) were also rethreaded, OVER the existing threads... the endcap mating surfaces are now closer to sawteeth than threads.  The rear endcap can literally be pushed flush into the can, without screwing it on at all.  Needless to say, if anything was salvageable before, it certainly isn't now. Here's the real trouble with this whole incident: I've talked to Craig Wheatly, the owner of Tactical Innovations, and he's all for making me another can with the same serial #; the problem is that I bought a special all-steel full auto rated .22 can, and he doesn't have any unmarked tubes laying around to replace mine with.  And since he's having so much success with his new Tac 16 cans, he has no idea when he's going to do another run of steel .22 cans.  I email every two months or so, and I always get the same polite response "sorry, don't have any plans for them in the immediate future..."  I really can't blame Craig, as this isn't his problem to resolve.  (Though I probably won't ever buy one of his cans again, sadly.) So my issue is that I've been out this suppressor for over a year now, and I'm tired of waiting on other people to get it fixed.  I've tried to be patient and 'reasonable', but that only goes so far. I want another suppressor, or enough money to purchase an equivalent, tax stamp and all.

Geeze,

And I was thinkin' about getting suppressors for my 220 and M4.

All I can say is Fucking

Be Safe.

Joe

I thought we had taken care of this problem, I was and am willing to pay for the suppressor at the agreed upon price. You knew from taking with the manufacture that he wasn't going to build them for awhile. It is hard to know your concerns with no direct communication. If you need to have the money in your pocket, you could have picked it up at anytime. I am only human and we all mess up from time to time and have always been willing to make it right. This has been a nightmare for us both and needs to be put to rest.  I Talked to Lorin at Tactical innovations. He said to leave a message to Chris with all your information and they would see what they could do to resolve the issue asap. They may be able to upgrade you and still use your existing tax stamp. I will pay for the upgrade so you do not have to wait anymore. give him a call. hopefully we can get some good news.

Well I'm back from Black Rifle Armory and Martin hooked me up.  I only needed my Aimpoint CompM2 with LaRue QD and Troy BUIS  mounted.  He quoted $35.00 on the phone but ended up not charging me.  Also picked up a half dozen 165gr. Ranger T .40.  His BRA t-shirt is cool as shit.  Said I could have one for free, but is wasn't XL.  Very cool shop.  He's got a few Kimber Warriors, several Colt BRs from new to vintage.

Id like to hear the resolution of the gunbert/sako saga.

please keep us informed.  

Quoted: I thought we had taken care of this problem, I was and am willing to pay for the suppressor at the agreed upon price. You knew from taking with the manufacture that he wasn't going to build them for awhile. It is hard to know your concerns with no direct communication. If you need to have the money in your pocket, you could have picked it up at anytime. I am only human and we all mess up from time to time and have always been willing to make it right. This has been a nightmare for us both and needs to be put to rest.  I Talked to Lorin at Tactical innovations. He said to leave a message to Chris with all your information and they would see what they could do to resolve the issue asap. They may be able to upgrade you and still use your existing tax stamp. I will pay for the upgrade so you do not have to wait anymore. give him a call. hopefully we can get some good news.

Sorry, I don't know who any of those people are.  I talk directly to the owner; I've tried to work something else out (different type can with same serial, etc) with no luck.  TI is unwilling to do it for liablility concerns.  Again, I've tried my arse off to find some simple resolution to this and I can't.   I welcome you to try and find a solution with them.  As far as I can see it, I will most likely have to replace the can with another offering, since TI's replacement turn around time on this suppressor is nonexistant.

Here is a link to the site with current pricing on my can:

www.tacticalinc.com/sup/suptac67.html  It's their highest end can with all stainless baffles.  It runs $360.

Then there is another tax stamp: $200

Add another $50 for fingerprints, miscellaneous fees and shipping and you get a total of around $610 that your mistake has cost me.  This is assuming my time is worth nothing.

Would you rather just write me a check for that amount?  I'd consider the issue resolved if you did.

sounds fair.

I guess this thread's off on a tangent.  

Btw, I met Chris (DARKMAKER) at Black Rifle Armory (he dosen't speak in caps).  

I finally got to handle an FN Five-seveN.  Martin has a black one, much better IMho than the grey.

Quoted: I guess this thread's off on a tangent.   Btw, I met Chris (DARKMAKER) at Black Rifle Armory (he dosen't speak in caps).   I finally got to handle an FN Five-seveN.  Martin has a black one, much better IMho than the grey.

I didn't know that color made a difference with a defensive weapon.

Am I missing something here or what?

Just wonderin'.

Be Safe.

Joe

the 5 7 seems to me at least, to be more of an OFFENSIVE weapon.  A specific tool for a specific offensive job.

i dont think i would want to defend myself with one.  Im still not sold on the "stopping power" of the round.

Quoted: I guess this thread's off on a tangent.   Btw, I met Chris (DARKMAKER) at Black Rifle Armory (he dosen't speak in caps).   I finally got to handle an FN Five-seveN.  Martin has a black one, much better IMho than the grey.

Sorry for the thread hijack!  

Tell you what... if this gets resolved because of your thread, I'll buy you dinner at the next 777 get together that I can attend.  

Quoted: the 5 7 seems to me at least, to be more of an OFFENSIVE weapon.  A specific tool for a specific offensive job. i dont think i would want to defend myself with one.  Im still not sold on the "stopping power" of the round.

Ok, I stand corrected on the Five-seveN.

I didn't know that color made a difference with an "OFFENSIVE" weapon.

Am I still missing something here or what?

Just wonderin'.

Be Safe.

Joe

ETA: In the words of Dr. Piazza: "Any gun will do — if you will do!"

Quoted: Quoted: the 5 7 seems to me at least, to be more of an OFFENSIVE weapon.  A specific tool for a specific offensive job. i dont think i would want to defend myself with one.  Im still not sold on the "stopping power" of the round. Ok, I stand corrected on the Five-seveN. I didn't know that color made a difference with an "OFFENSIVE" weapon. Am I still missing something here or what? Just wonderin'. Be Safe. Joe ETA: In the words of Dr. Piazza: "Any gun will do — if you will do!"

Joe, I think the guy was just mentioning that he liked the color better.  

Quoted: Quoted: I guess this thread's off on a tangent.   Btw, I met Chris (DARKMAKER) at Black Rifle Armory (he dosen't speak in caps).   I finally got to handle an FN Five-seveN.  Martin has a black one, much better IMho than the grey. Sorry for the thread hijack!   Tell you what... if this gets resolved because of your thread, I'll buy you dinner at the next 777 get together that I can attend.

 No worries here.    I believe dealers / company reps / vendors / sales reps should wander the forums and make their presense known.  My initial quesiton was answered pretty quick (I probably would never have run across BRA).

can this thread be split into its respective topics?  seems to me that this deserves its own thread...and possibly some attention from brasspile.


Citadel is an excellent establishment, and i respect the owners deeply....however, i think that this issue must be resolved...between gunbert and the smith.

the people i gave you work their and can do what u said. they can put your seriel number on another can. but u need to call them and talk to them. i didnt have all the info.

their is one thing that they didnt understand though, the alumium tube cam with alumium baffles not stainless. this is why u need to clearify with them what u have

I moved the hijack to here:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=22&t=206164&page=1

Would anyone from Citadel care to reply in the above posted thread?  I'd really like to work this out, amicably if possible.