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Posted: 1/29/2011 8:23:16 PM EDT
[#1]
NO, but you might manualy cycle it and give yourself a headache.
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Posted: 1/29/2011 8:35:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
NO, but you might manualy cycle it and give yourself a headache. So are my thoughts on this correct, I really want an answer as this is a serious safety concern.I have wondered about it for a while. |
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Posted: 1/29/2011 9:07:12 PM EDT
[#3]
I haven't squibbed in an AR, but have seen two in FAL's. I believe both those came out of an iffy box of primers. One of them happened today at the LCR and the next chambered round wouldn't feed when it hit the squib. I thought the 1st was a possible issue of contamination and maybe the second was, too. The takeaway from that is to know that what you shoot hit something which isn't easy when there are twenty other people shooting off the same line. The rest of that batch will be carefully used making sure that each one goes downrange.
Both times there was a lot of powder pouring out of the chamber and the shot felt "weird" when it went off. |
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Posted: 1/29/2011 9:18:31 PM EDT
[#4]
OK that makes sense. But lets say you are shooting fast or bump firing, the split second "feeling" of something weird wont work. So, mechanically speaking, can it happen?
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Posted: 1/29/2011 9:23:22 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: Quoted: NO, but you might manualy cycle it and give yourself a headache. So are my thoughts on this correct, I really want an answer as this is a serious safety concern.I have wondered about it for a while. OK..."Squib Load". Can I see your specs or data for that? You don't have any? Huh. Imagine that...   Listen... if you're referring to an underloaded cartridge, MOST likely it will not cycle the bolt. Generally speaking an underpowered cartridge will cause you some headaches, in the form of getting the bullet out. At the most it's potentially hazardous to your continued breathing. In the military, during Basic Rifle Marksmanship it's referred to as a "POP with no kick". What can happen? If there's no powder in the case, and the primer only, there will be a very soft muted "POP" and the bullet will be lodged the throat of the barrel. You won't feel any recoil, the bolt will short-stroke, the casing will not eject and the trigger will not reset. (ETA- Any amount of powder up to around 80% of the lightest loading for that particular powders will propel the bullet down the barrel, (Whatever indeterminate distance that will be), however it will feel weird, and definetly "off") If the shooter operates the charging handle, chambers a new round, and squeezes the trigger the new bullet *may* propel the first 4" or so, then because of the massive amount of friction, it will most likely get wedged around the 6" mark. The casing itself will have started it's rearward travel, but due to the massive backpressure, it will fail, and rupture, the force seeking the path of least resistance. The extractor could be ripped from the bolt, shrapnel from the casing spraying out thru the ejection port, the receiver itself could be damaged, the gas will blow out the bottom of magazine and the "BANG" will be less-than-subtle. If you catch the problem, the best way I know of to remove the bullet is to use a USGI cleaning rod set. Start by dropping the cleaning rod into the barrel from the muzzle end, solid THREADED end first, not the hollow end. Once inserted raise the rod 6-8" and give it a downwards flick of the wrist, Rinse/Repeat a couple of hundred times until the bullet drops out. Light tapping with a mallet is "Ok", but DO NOT get real agressive or you chance ruining the corners of the lands and grooves. Did I make that complicated enough? Good...I'm sure Tweak will be along after the LCR to correct me if I'm wrong anywhere. |
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Posted: 1/29/2011 9:29:55 PM EDT
[#6]
You must be bored Matt, said the same thing I did, only used 200 more words!
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Posted: 1/29/2011 9:35:21 PM EDT
[#7]
Yeah.
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Posted: 1/29/2011 9:37:43 PM EDT
[#8]
Matt summed it up nicely.
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Posted: 1/29/2011 9:41:27 PM EDT
[#9]
OK..."Squib Load". Can I see your specs or data for that? You don't have any? Huh. it will short-stroke, the casing will not eject and the trigger will not reset. Uhhh, gee thanks, for the question. Sorry for not giving the exact load data on what I meant by "squib" Sometimes a question here is just like asking for a slap in the face. |
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Posted: 1/29/2011 9:44:59 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Sometimes a question here is just like asking for a slap in the face. Fixt. 
There are tech forums for gun questions. We don't talk about guns in here. |
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Posted: 1/29/2011 10:00:11 PM EDT
[#11]
account locked
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Posted: 1/29/2011 10:34:23 PM EDT
[#12]
Pop no kick............haven't heard that term for years..........fuck now I'm old
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Posted: 1/29/2011 10:40:30 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Let's compare....
Me telling you that you're a fucking pussy, with little pussy fears, and you need to have the shit slapped out of you would be a slap in the face fuck-o. And now we'll contrast. The answer I already gave you, where I bothered to take the time to explain to you in full the how, what, why and remedy.
For the record, a "Squib load" is specific type of explosive charge used to simulate bullet hits in the pyrotechnic industry. It's classically misused in the exact manner in which you did. Now here's the part where I tell you, in all sincerety, that you need a much tougher skin. Fucking Fairy. 
I have rhino hide, that's why I ask questions. I need answers, and I get them here. As far as being a "fairy" Check my real name around, I cage fight @ the 180lb class locally. And I do not take kindly to name calling. But for now my question is pretty much answered. Jeeeeezus fucking Christ, it's like pulling teeth here. |
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Posted: 1/29/2011 10:52:45 PM EDT
[#14]
The bullet has to pass the gas port for the rifle to function.
If the bullet does pass the gas port but does not exit the barrel then the chances of the rifle functioning depend on how much gas made it into the gas tube and at what pressure.
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Posted: 1/30/2011 12:01:26 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
account locked looks like our airborne friend has paid us a visit... Ive only had one squib load and it was in an Springfield 45 I had for a short while, and it was pretty obvious when it happened. NEVER trust someone's "match" reloads... lesson learned.
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Posted: 1/30/2011 3:02:25 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
The bullet has to pass the gas port for the rifle to function cycle. If the bullet does pass the gas port but does not exit the barrel then the chances of the rifle functioning depend on how much gas made it into the gas tube and at what pressure the rifle will most likely cycle a new round as normal since all excess gasses (that usually follow the round out of the barrel) have only one place to go (the gas port). . . If this happens on round number two of your three round burst then your barrel will peel like a banana from the muzzle and send sharp metal into the shooters direction. Eye protection is advised at this point so I hope you were thinking ahead. The source of the detonation will be past the gas port so damage to the shooter will be minimized especially with longer gas systems. This scenario has probably happened a handful of times in the weapon's history. If the "squib" as you call it, had enough energy to make it past the gas port, it'll likely make the other couple inches out the tube and fall to the ground well short of the target. |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 8:49:48 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
account locked "You people" need to get a life... I've studied the unlocking sequence of the M16 extensively by watching YouTube videos. It looks to me that the bolt will not unlock unless there is gas pressure from the gas port. To unlock the bolt there must be sufficient gas pressure inside the bolt carrier to force the bolt carrier aft with the bolt "fixed" against the locking lugs. When the bolt carrier moves aft, the cam makes the bolt rotate and unlock from the barrel extension and the inertia of the bolt carrier is what actually extracts the spent case. (I think of this gas expansion as sort of a backward engine cylinder where the piston is fixed and the engine block moves.) If there is no gas pressure applied to the bolt carrier chamber, the bolt itself will have no tendency to unlock so no chambering of another round. The gas pressure from the underpowered load will find the path of least resistance to bleed off. There is no reason to think that the gas port would be the path of least resistance. How'd I do?. |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 9:51:34 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: looks like some got their feelings hurt, pushed the report button, and invited the man into the HTF. Quoted: account locked looks like our airborne friend has paid us a visit...    |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 10:05:46 AM EDT
[#19]
Saw that too.
Hopefully it won't be to long of a vacation for him.
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Posted: 1/30/2011 10:19:01 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
looks like some got their feelings hurt, pushed the report button, and invited the man into the HTF. Quoted:
account locked looks like our airborne friend has paid us a visit...
Matt is a big boy...he knows what the COC's are, he crossed that line all by himself. I hope it is a temp lock..be sorry to lose him here....but again, he posted what he posted. |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 10:27:32 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Ain't nobody denying that fact (that I know of, anyhow).Quoted: looks like some got their feelings hurt, pushed the report button, and invited the man into the HTF. Matt is a big boy...he knows what the COC's are, he crossed that line all by himself. I hope it is a temp lock..be sorry to lose him here....but again, he posted what he posted. It's the 'run and tell the teacher' part that I was commenting on.... |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 10:51:38 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ain't nobody denying that fact (that I know of, anyhow).
Quoted:
looks like some got their feelings hurt, pushed the report button, and invited the man into the HTF.
Matt is a big boy...he knows what the COC's are, he crossed that line all by himself. I hope it is a temp lock..be sorry to lose him here....but again, he posted what he posted. It's the 'run and tell the teacher' part that I was commenting on.... If the implication is that I ran and told the teacher then you are wrong. I had enough of this bullshit last night and closed my computer while the topic was still active. Thanks to those who answered my question without the drama. |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 10:51:43 AM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 1/30/2011 10:53:56 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ain't nobody denying that fact (that I know of, anyhow).
Quoted:
looks like some got their feelings hurt, pushed the report button, and invited the man into the HTF.
Matt is a big boy...he knows what the COC's are, he crossed that line all by himself. I hope it is a temp lock..be sorry to lose him here....but again, he posted what he posted. It's the 'run and tell the teacher' part that I was commenting on.... You do understand that WaHTF is monitored by site staff because of a history of problems..it may well be that 82nd just happened upon that post...or maybe someone did hit the report button...if you really wanna know..IM 82nd. 
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Posted: 1/30/2011 10:58:41 AM EDT
[#25]
Why is it there are times that I feel I am the only one who KNOWS that when I post a serious question in here that it will get dog piled with only one or two serious responses if that?
Posting while knowing this, I would be disappointed if it didn't happen. I expect it to. There have been more than one or two times that I have posted serious questions on here and never received a serious response on the thread, but have been piled on by one individual publicly then to have the same individual IM me with a serious, helpful response... |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 10:59:23 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ain't nobody denying that fact (that I know of, anyhow).Quoted: looks like some got their feelings hurt, pushed the report button, and invited the man into the HTF. Matt is a big boy...he knows what the COC's are, he crossed that line all by himself. I hope it is a temp lock..be sorry to lose him here....but again, he posted what he posted. It's the 'run and tell the teacher' part that I was commenting on.... You do understand that WaHTF is monitored by site staff because of a history of problems..it may well be that 82nd just happened upon that post...or maybe someone did hit the report button...if you really wanna know..IM 82nd. I doubt he will provide specifics about another members account. Fuck, I hope it's just a temporary lock. I believe Mogwar when he says he didn't hit the report button but if someone else did that's pretty pathetic. |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 11:21:48 AM EDT
[#27]
What's that you say? Someone was blamed for hitting the report button and it wasn't true?
That doesn't really happen here, does it? Say it isn't so. |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 11:25:17 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ain't nobody denying that fact (that I know of, anyhow).
Quoted:
looks like some got their feelings hurt, pushed the report button, and invited the man into the HTF.
Matt is a big boy...he knows what the COC's are, he crossed that line all by himself. I hope it is a temp lock..be sorry to lose him here....but again, he posted what he posted. It's the 'run and tell the teacher' part that I was commenting on.... You do understand that WaHTF is monitored by site staff because of a history of problems..it may well be that 82nd just happened upon that post...or maybe someone did hit the report button...if you really wanna know..IM 82nd. Sorry I am going to call BS on that... Staph has said a number of tiems they don't have that type of time... So... 
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Posted: 1/30/2011 11:26:18 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: What's that you say? Someone was blamed for hitting the report button and it wasn't true? That doesn't really happen here, does it? Say it isn't so. Reported. |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 11:27:07 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ain't nobody denying that fact (that I know of, anyhow).Quoted: looks like some got their feelings hurt, pushed the report button, and invited the man into the HTF. Matt is a big boy...he knows what the COC's are, he crossed that line all by himself. I hope it is a temp lock..be sorry to lose him here....but again, he posted what he posted. It's the 'run and tell the teacher' part that I was commenting on.... You do understand that WaHTF is monitored by site staff because of a history of problems..it may well be that 82nd just happened upon that post...or maybe someone did hit the report button...if you really wanna know..IM 82nd. Sorry I am going to call BS on that... Staph has said a number of tiems they don't have that type of time... So... Also reported. |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 11:30:00 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ain't nobody denying that fact (that I know of, anyhow).
Quoted:
looks like some got their feelings hurt, pushed the report button, and invited the man into the HTF.
Matt is a big boy...he knows what the COC's are, he crossed that line all by himself. I hope it is a temp lock..be sorry to lose him here....but again, he posted what he posted. It's the 'run and tell the teacher' part that I was commenting on.... You do understand that WaHTF is monitored by site staff because of a history of problems..it may well be that 82nd just happened upon that post...or maybe someone did hit the report button...if you really wanna know..IM 82nd. Sorry I am going to call BS on that... Staph has said a number of tiems they don't have that type of time... So...
Also reported. Thank you... I needed that |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 11:50:13 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ain't nobody denying that fact (that I know of, anyhow).
Quoted:
looks like some got their feelings hurt, pushed the report button, and invited the man into the HTF.
Matt is a big boy...he knows what the COC's are, he crossed that line all by himself. I hope it is a temp lock..be sorry to lose him here....but again, he posted what he posted. It's the 'run and tell the teacher' part that I was commenting on.... You do understand that WaHTF is monitored by site staff because of a history of problems..it may well be that 82nd just happened upon that post...or maybe someone did hit the report button...if you really wanna know..IM 82nd. Sorry I am going to call BS on that... Staph has said a number of tiems they don't have that type of time... So...
Also reported. Thank you... I needed that reported again....for overquoting |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 11:51:51 AM EDT
[#33]
There's going to be hell to pay when the dictator logs on and sees this overquoting.
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Posted: 1/30/2011 11:53:22 AM EDT
[#34]
The thing that scares me is that all of the sub-caliber bolts are simple blow back operation without the locking lug engagement. The sub-caliber bolt carriers don't sheild the firing pin and it is not at all hard to imagine that the hammer could fall and fire the round with the bolt out of battery.
That's why I don't like bump firing nines. |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 12:02:15 PM EDT
[#35]
The OP knew the answer, he must have just been looking for confirmation.
ETA: Matt got his pee pee slapped in the other thread too. Might have been cumulative. |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 12:05:43 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Why is it there are times that I feel I am the only one who KNOWS that when I post a serious question in here that it will get dog piled with only one or two serious responses if that? Posting while knowing this, I would be disappointed if it didn't happen. I expect it to. There have been more than one or two times that I have posted serious questions on here and never received a serious response on the thread, but have been piled on by one individual publicly then to have the same individual IM me with a serious, helpful response... I guess I don't understand why this place is so caustic, or why people are suprised that the site staff are in here nuking people. Dogpiling an unknown new guy who could be friends of the trail troll for asking "where are all the good shooting pits?" is one thing. Busting a guys nuts for asking a gun related question is another. This whole website is about guns. Not just the tech forums. If you don't like the thread, ignore it, or suggest a better place to post it. ...and no, I've never reported a thread. |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 12:49:06 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
The thing that scares me is that all of the sub-caliber bolts are simple blow back operation without the locking lug engagement. The sub-caliber bolt carriers don't sheild the firing pin and it is not at all hard to imagine that the hammer could fall and fire the round with the bolt out of battery. That's why I don't like bump firing nines. I had a 9mm AR fire out of battery on me once....just got my off hand all black and sooty...stung a bit too. |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 1:18:05 PM EDT
[#38]
OOB 9mm? One of mine? I did it about 5 times in one day
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Posted: 1/30/2011 1:23:50 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: How'd I do?.  |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 3:13:24 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
OOB 9mm? One of mine? I did it about 5 times in one day yeah...yours...
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Posted: 1/30/2011 4:10:15 PM EDT
[#41]
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Posted: 1/30/2011 7:27:02 PM EDT
[#42]
I've seen bullets stuck in all parts of AR barrels even past the gas port. The subsonic prototype EBR loads didn't have the oomph to fully unlock the bolt even when they did exit the barrel.
Hey charliez, you got an IM. |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 7:38:01 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Quoted: Why is it there are times that I feel I am the only one who KNOWS that when I post a serious question in here that it will get dog piled with only one or two serious responses if that? Posting while knowing this, I would be disappointed if it didn't happen. I expect it to. There have been more than one or two times that I have posted serious questions on here and never received a serious response on the thread, but have been piled on by one individual publicly then to have the same individual IM me with a serious, helpful response... I guess I don't understand why this place is so caustic, or why people are suprised that the site staff are in here nuking people. Dogpiling an unknown new guy who could be friends of the trail troll for asking "where are all the good shooting pits?" is one thing. Busting a guys nuts for asking a gun related question is another. This whole website is about guns. Not just the tech forums. If you don't like the thread, ignore it, or suggest a better place to post it. ...and no, I've never reported a thread. This whole website hasn't been about guns since GD became more important than the members that drew you here. People is what everything is about. I'll stake my oath on it. |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 8:06:36 PM EDT
[#44]
more importantly, if someone wants a technical answer or to start a technical discussion they should ask in the tech forums, the rules (and staph) are much stricter there.
When I post any place but the tech forums I expect a hijack. Many complain about the treatment of new people but if they pay attention they would see that we treat new folks exactly the same as members but since most of us have spent time together our jokes and jabs don't sound so extreme. Every culture has its rituals, whether those be circumcision or the towel in front of Spetsnaz barracks. Adhere to them and be accepted, ignore them and be shunned, flaunt them and be hated.
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Posted: 1/30/2011 8:40:32 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
more importantly, if someone wants a technical answer or to start a technical discussion they should ask in the tech forums, the rules (and staph) are much stricter there. When I post any place but the tech forums I expect a hijack. Many complain about the treatment of new people but if they pay attention they would see that we treat new folks exactly the same as members but since most of us have spent time together our jokes and jabs don't sound so extreme. Every culture has its rituals, whether those be circumcision or the towel in front of Spetsnaz barracks. Adhere to them and be accepted, ignore them and be shunned, flaunt them and be hated. A thread hijack is definitely to be expected outside the tech forums, and it's all ladybugs and hugs from grandma until it's starts drifting off into personal attacks. That's specifically what I meant by the caustic comment. It isn't like the WAHTF has a different COC from the rest of arfcom. I guess I was lucky (or maybe protected since I knew people before having an account) because I never seemed to get the harsh treatment others are getting when I was new here. It's not my hill to die on, and I'm not butthurt, I'm just kinda blown away with this place lately. |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 8:53:33 PM EDT
[#46]
Gotta agree with Skillets. A guy I know just got into AR's. Asked me about the WAHTF, I told him to just check in and see if it was to his liking. He watched for about a month and decided that it wasn't for him. Mainly he thought the Beer requirement was just fine but the "Application" was way over the top, it has to be responded to in just the right way and many of the questions were nobodys business but his.
His conclusion was some here were a bunch of jerks and he didn't want to join a forum that the first premise was you were a fed. He still looks in the tech forums and browses the others other than the WAHTF and GD. I have known him for 10 years and he (and I) wonder how many people we have chased off with the horse shit that some require to be considered are too cumbersome to bother with. |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 9:04:51 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Gotta agree with Skillets. A guy I know just got into AR's. Asked me about the WAHTF, I told him to just check in and see if it was to his liking. He watched for about a month and decided that it wasn't for him. Mainly he thought the Beer requirement was just fine but the "Application" was way over the top, it has to be responded to in just the right way and many of the questions were nobodys business but his. His conclusion was some here were a bunch of jerks and he didn't want to join a forum that the first premise was you were a fed. He still looks in the tech forums and browses the others other than the WAHTF and GD. I have known him for 10 years and he (and I) wonder how many people we have chased off with the horse shit that some require to be considered are too cumbersome to bother with. Understood. The rest of us just walked right in and said, "How do you like that?". It worked for you & I.  Dunno. Arfcom is certainly a tightrope for the timid. I have a cousin who joined recently, and he had no trouble building his first AR by studying the tech forums as I advised him to. GD & the WA HTF were temporary stops for him, as was the LCR. (he lives closer than I do) Go figure. We're speshul? |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 9:11:43 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ain't nobody denying that fact (that I know of, anyhow).
Quoted:
looks like some got their feelings hurt, pushed the report button, and invited the man into the HTF.
Matt is a big boy...he knows what the COC's are, he crossed that line all by himself. I hope it is a temp lock..be sorry to lose him here....but again, he posted what he posted. It's the 'run and tell the teacher' part that I was commenting on.... If the implication is that I ran and told the teacher then you are wrong. I had enough of this bullshit last night and closed my computer while the topic was still active. Thanks to those who answered my question without the drama. Go post in the tech forums next time instead. |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 9:19:39 PM EDT
[#49]
I agree with Dino on the application too.. it's kind of silly. At the same time though certain posters who do not do anything but get butt hurt over a little trash talk make this place suck. This is not a tech forum... though it's okay to ask but to get bent out of shape with some not so serious answers is silly. Same goes for people asking for places to shoot...
I think jumping on people is wrong still.. The folks here are what separate the HTF from the raging dumbasses over at northwestfirearms. |
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Posted: 1/30/2011 9:41:13 PM EDT
[#50]
I think the arfcom regulars (HTF & GD) are all looking to one up the last joke to get laughs, and inadvertently venture over the COC. It doesn't seem like a big deal to those who understand the context and history behind the jokes, but it comes across like "a slap in the face" to someone who is newer.
I'd hate to see the LULZ leave the WAHTF since that's what makes arfcom great, but it also is important to remember that the vast majority of new guys are "good guys" and that we as pro gun types need to stick together, and welcome new shooters into the fold. Or maybe it's not as big of a deal as I'm making it on my head...
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