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Posted: 2/12/2007 8:45:44 PM EDT
[#1]
100% pure bull shit. There is no such law as you quote the magistrate stating. I very, very highly doubt he read the riot act to the trooper. I would have laughed at the magistrate and asked him to show where he is getting his motor vehicle knowledge from because he obviously doesn't know it. All that is required is the lanes to be marked and or signs posted. Double yellow lines means no passing, period.
§3307. No-passing zones. (a) Establishment and marking.—The department and local authorities may determine those portions of any highway under their respective jurisdictions where overtaking and passing or driving on the left side of the roadway would be especially hazardous and shall by appropriate signs or markings on the roadway indicate the beginning and end of such zones and when the signs or markings are in place and clearly visible to an ordinarily observant person every driver of a vehicle shall obey the directions of the signs or markings. Signs shall be placed to indicate the beginning and end of each no-passing zone. (b) Compliance by drivers.—Where signs and markings are in place to define a no-passing zone as set forth in subsection (a), no driver shall at any time drive on the left side of the roadway within the no-passing zone or on the left side of any pavement striping designed to mark a no-passing zone throughout its length. (c) Application of section.—This section does not apply under the conditions described in section 3301(a)(2) and (5) relating to driving on right side of roadway). |
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Posted: 2/12/2007 8:47:56 PM EDT
[#2]
The only law that has anything to do with clear distance is turning around or u-turns.
§3332. Limitations on turning around. (a) General rule.—The driver of any vehicle shall not turn the vehicle so as to proceed in the opposite direction unless the movement can be made in safety and without interfering with other traffic. (b) Turns on curves or grades.—No vehicle shall be turned so as to proceed in the opposite direction upon any curve, or upon the approach to or near the crest of a grade, where the vehicle cannot be seen by the driver of any other vehicle approaching from either direction within 500 feet. |
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Posted: 2/12/2007 9:16:41 PM EDT
[#3]
Just in case you still aren't convinced, here is the link to the online PENNDOT driving manual. Pay special attention to Chapter #2, Signs, Signals and Pavement Markings. It is in PDF so in case you canot open it..............
To quote; "A double, solid yellow centerline shows the center of a twoway road. Even if it is not marked with a NO PASSING sign, passing by traffic traveling in either direction is not allowed on roads marked in this manner." PA Driver's Manual |
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Posted: 2/13/2007 2:52:07 AM EDT
[#4]
100% BS. The double Solid yellow line is No Passing period. Not only in PA, is in CA also and may be the rest of the states. One's can makes a passing if there's double yellow line which has one solid and other dotted line with a safe and clear, One can makes a pass on a double Solid yellow lines if chosen but that's Not legal. |
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Posted: 2/13/2007 3:14:33 AM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 2/13/2007 8:41:24 AM EDT
[#6]
Listen I suggest any one who doubts what I have said call your local state trooper barracks and they will clear it up.
Before I wrote this second post I called the honesdale barracks and they confirmed what I said. Now before anyone calls me a liar or calls BS on my post. Call LT Degman at the blooming grove state trooper barracks ,I just got off the phone with him. He will verify it is legal to pass on a double yellow if a "no passing" sign is not present, if it is not through an intersection, if it is not a blind curve or hill with in 200 feet. Lt. Degman 570 226-5718 |
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Posted: 2/13/2007 8:49:29 AM EDT
[#7]
By the way , the trooper also said the staute is what dictates the law, The driving manual is wrong when it states that.
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Posted: 2/13/2007 8:53:59 AM EDT
[#8]
This is where you went wrong. You see the staute requires both markins and a posted sign for their to be a totally no passing zone. The "and" defines what is required for a total no passing zone. Don't believe me call pendot. |
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Posted: 2/13/2007 9:14:42 AM EDT
[#9]
Well a 20 min hold with Penndot and I have a suprivisor agreeing with me, I'm on hold he's calling the state police Lt and next he's calling the state AG's office.
He said it's very important for this manual to be correct and exact. I'll update this when they get back to me. |
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Posted: 2/13/2007 9:24:27 AM EDT
[#10]
Sorry, my first posting IS the statute and there is no provision for passing with double yellow lines. End of story.
And the statute says signs AND markings, indicating the BEGINNING and END of the no passing zone. It says nothing about the signs in between. And just because the signs are not there doesn't mean you can pass. The signs may have been knocked down, stolen, etc. I don't care who you call because I am also a PA LEO and there is no provision for passing in a no passing zone. |
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Posted: 2/13/2007 9:31:12 AM EDT
[#11]
You're dead wrong. Call the state police and ask, you afraid you might learn something? A no passing zone to be a complete no passing zone must have both road markings (double yellow) and a sign posted saying "no passing" and thats by state statute my friend, you are 100 percent wrong on this. |
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Posted: 2/13/2007 9:36:52 AM EDT
[#12]
Where in the statute do you see an exception? There isn't any! I've written a ton of no passing citations. If there was a provision it would have to be written into the statute. Its not, so there isn't one.
In order for your story to even be believable, the exception you are trying to claim would have to be in writing somewhere, either in the statute or as an exception. I can back up everything I've posted about. In fact I did. You cannot back up anything, other than claiming someone is saying it can be done. BS. Tell them to cite the section that allows it. Better luck next time. |
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Posted: 2/13/2007 9:53:46 AM EDT
[#13]
Here is what you don't understand or you are being intentionally obtuse. The State police Lt said this is what defines the law:
The no passing zone to be a complete and unequivocal no passing zone must be marked by both double yellow lines and no passing signs in it's entire length. That little word "and" means a great deal in law , you better study up cause you're wrong on this one. |
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Posted: 2/13/2007 1:45:41 PM EDT
[#14]
From my limited (but personal) experience in a PA court traffic case, I was sure that lines alone were not enough - signs needed to be there or there was no passing violation. If the statute states signs shall be present at both ends of a no passing zone and they are not, the posting/marking in not adequate. There has to be PA court cases where this was clarified - I'm not a lawyer but maybe one will chime in.
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Posted: 2/13/2007 3:44:36 PM EDT
[#15]
Most "city or town" cops don't know the law on this. The more professional state police get their cues directly from the State AG's office. Ask any Pa State Trooper this and you should hear the right answer. I offered up the Lt's name and the number for the State police barracks but I guess that wasn't good enough for some here. I didn't make this up. Any one who has been through a "big city" court and a magistrates court will tell you it's a breath of fresh air. Magistrates are pretty fair from all I have seen and heard. |
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Posted: 2/13/2007 3:48:00 PM EDT
[#16]
You sure you're a LEO? I only ask because I highly doubt you would laugh in the face of a magistrate. You would get suspended and maybe jailed for contempt. It would be funny watching you back pedal after the magistrate got pissed. |
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Posted: 2/14/2007 3:58:01 AM EDT
[#17]
I video taped the road I got my ticket on and there were no signs ANYWHERE. I brought this up to the magistrate and she said pavement markings are all that is needed to mark a no passing zone. $100 fine and 3 points on my license.
So, unless the magistrate and the cop were total idiots, YOU are wrong. |
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Posted: 2/14/2007 4:20:26 AM EDT
[#18]
I don't know if you're right or wrong on this issue -- but I hope your wrong. When I watch some of the dingbats out there on the road--juggling cigarette, coffee mug and cell phone simultaneously while behind the wheel -- I would really rather that the average driver viewed the "double yellow" as a clear indication that no passing is allowed. 
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Posted: 2/14/2007 10:28:44 AM EDT
[#19]
The statute does NOT say what you said (highlighted in red). It says "beginning and end," not "it's entire length." So right off the bad you're arguing a logical fallacy because the statute says nothing of the sort and a plain English reading of it backs this up. Here is the statute, from Steve's post:
The text in red above clearly states that signs are only required to indicate the beginning and end of a no passing zone. The text in blue is the word "or," which has a significantly different meaning than the word "and." Beyond that, you two can resume your pissing contest. |
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Posted: 2/14/2007 11:05:12 AM EDT
[#20]
In the compliance section quoted below it tells what is needed to be a full and complete "no passing zone. The word "and" used here denotes what must be present to ensure It is a complete no passing zone.
Listen the State police Lt is right as far as I'm concerned, when I asked him if he was sure he said the state police get all the interpretations of statutes for the States AG's office. It amazes me that I posted two phone numbers to two separate state police units and no one called them? Do any of you think that two separate state police units are wrong? These guys pride themselves on being professional. You know the funny thing is both said they don't advise or like the law as it stands but told me the truth that it is a fact under the right cond, where it is not posted "no passing " on a sign you can pass on a double yellow. |
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Posted: 2/14/2007 11:28:39 AM EDT
[#21]
How's this , pass at your own risk !
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Posted: 2/14/2007 1:48:14 PM EDT
[#22]
So, if I get a ticket, can I walk into the court, and say "But Your Honor, some guy on the internet is SURE that it's OK, and he said some cop said it was OK too"? Cause as far as YOU are concerned is much different than what the COURT is concerned with. Much more credible than saying "I talked to some officer on the phone", would be to get that officer to get you a reference, IN WRITING, that clarifies it. Anything less than that in court is useless. So call your buddy at the police barracks, get him to give you a solid written reference, the one from the state's AG office that he apparently has experience with, and has probably had to provide in court, and report back. Not just "He said it's OK". OK? |
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Posted: 2/15/2007 9:26:01 AM EDT
[#23]
Jesus H. Christ, can you read? It says "begining and end" and nothing, at all, about signs along its length. NOTHING. NOT ONE WORD. So your contention that it has to have signs ALONG ITS ENTIRE LENGTH is not shown anywhere in the statute. Since your arguement has been based upon this "entire length" bullshit, your entire arguement is built upon a fiction and it collapses as a result. You can argue all you want and it won't make it any more true. There is no legal requirement for signs along the entire length of the no passing zone. None. They are only legally required at the beginning and the end. Find me where it says "along its entire length" in the statute. Beyond that, a telephone call to a State Trooper is about useless unless he's also offering to be an expert witness for every defendant in the state cited under the conditions you mention. If you're going to continue to argue this, I'd appreciate it if you'd actually address the things that are written instead of argueing against whatever you feel like. It makes a lot more sense to everyone else that way. |
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Posted: 2/15/2007 10:35:21 AM EDT
[#24]
Anyone KNOW the law about passing on a road with NO markings. A lot of the country road around my house have no white or yellow lines.
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Posted: 2/15/2007 10:39:57 AM EDT
[#25]
well all i can say is that i lost $100.00 bet on this subject about 4 years ago because i thought that you could not pass on the double yellow line, I was proven wrong and dumbfounded , yes you can if it is not marked provided your not going up a hill, around a corner, aproching a bridge, and other such things. so i heard it from the judge, and officer and went to the Dublin State police because i still did not belive it and the kind officer took time out of the bussy night and explaned it all or i think he did
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Posted: 2/15/2007 2:52:59 PM EDT
[#26]
Hey spanky, first, if you're going to post names and numbers on the internet, GET THE FUCKING NAME RIGHT. Second, why don't you consult with an attorney instead of wasting PSP time. Third, on a TECHNICAL note, I will agree with you about the signs as will half or so of the MDJ's in PA. The other half would most likely find you guilty FOR DOING SOMETHING STUPID as the SPIRIT of the law is don't pass on double lines, where the LETTER of the law implies that signs should be, or should have been, posted. As for an officer getting suspended or held in contempt by a MDJ in PA for this issue, it isn't going to happen. |
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Posted: 2/15/2007 4:37:48 PM EDT
[#27]
Why all the hostility, is that you Lt.? I didn't say the officer was suspended or held in contempt. I said if you laughed in a magistrates face you might get one or the other or both. I said my buddy said the officer was read the riot act. I questioned my friend about this today and it turns out he overstated the facts. He was found not guilty for passing on the double yellow. The so called "riot act' was one lone comment to the officer as he was leaving, the magistrate said. "Bob you know better than that" Well I agree it's not a good idea to pass on the double yellow unless you have some dumb ass going 10 miles an hour and you know for sure you have clear rd way ahead. |
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Posted: 2/15/2007 5:34:33 PM EDT
[#28]
Why all the hostility, is that you Lt.?
I'm not being hostile, nor am I the Lt, but I have known him for many years. He is a good guy. If you are going to post info, just get things right. I didn't say the officer was suspended or held in contempt. Agreed I said if you laughed in a magistrates face you might get one or the other or both. Anything is possible, but again VERY unlikely in PA I said my buddy said the officer was read the riot act. Agreed I questioned my friend about this today and it turns out he overstated the facts. He was found not guilty for passing on the double yellow. As I stated earlier, I can accept and understand that verdict. It is the letter of the law The so called "riot act' was one lone comment to the officer as he was leaving, the magistrate said. "Bob you know better than that" Well I agree it's not a good idea to pass on the double yellow unless you have some dumb ass going 10 miles an hour and you know for sure you have clear rd way ahead. Agreed to both points. I don't like following leaf peepers, blue heads etc either  I have dealt with many DJ's (now MDJ's) over the years and have encountered all types of people. You have the occasional simpletons and supreme court justice mentalities, but for the most part, I have found them to be fair. I've never taken verdicts personally, my job is to present facts and the MDJ decides if a violation has occurred, not me. I have not ever cited someone for the OP offense without signs and markings being in place. I'm actually on your side of this.  |
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Posted: 2/16/2007 12:34:06 PM EDT
[#29]
Good , now lets convince Steve I'm not nuts (on this issue) LOL |
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Posted: 2/22/2007 6:32:02 PM EDT
[#30]
My God, can you two please get along.
In any event, jrzy is correct ... "we note that the sole Pennsylvania court to construe section 3307 held that this statute does not prohibit passing in a no-passing zone unless there are markings on the highway and signs placed to indicate the beginning and end of each no-passing zone. In Commonwealth v. Yorty, 11 D. & C. 3d 206, 207 (1979), the court stated that "passing in a 'no-passing zone' is a violation only when both 'signs and highway markings are in place." "Defendant did, however, pass in an area marked as a "no passing zone" by yellow hatchmarks on the roadway. Nonetheless, passing in a "no passing zone" is a violation only when both "signs and highway markings are in place." 75 Pa.C.S.A. § 3307(b). (Emphasis supplied.) In the instant case, there were no signs in place. Even if there had been signs, defendant would have been violating section 3307, rather than section 3306 as charged." Cite: Comm. v. Yorty, 11 Pa. D&C 3d 206 |
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Posted: 2/23/2007 9:44:22 AM EDT
[#31]
OOOOOOOOOOOOh Steve |
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Posted: 2/25/2007 9:53:36 AM EDT
[#32]
I was reading through this when someone finally pulled out the correct case law. Comm Vs Yorty has been in effect since my academy days(1989). It has been said that Magistrates will do what Magistrates will do. Some abide by case law, some don't. Remember a Magistrate is not a true Judge.(think Common Pleas). They are in truth elected officals. Though some think that they wield more knowledge and authority that what they are truly granted. In so much as contempt. I do believe the only time that a Mag. can charge someone with contempt is when someone who has been served a subpoena fails to appear. And then it is only a fine. I seem to remember it being about $100.00. But then again I never recall a Mag. enforcing it. |
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Posted: 2/27/2007 8:53:37 AM EDT
[#33]
You know what I like about ARFCOM?
Even though someone might not care for my posting style the truth is more important around here. That is evidenced by the two or three members who came out with the truth in my defense. You know what I don't like about ARFCOM sometimes? When proven wrong after practically calling me a liar no one who took the position you can't pass on a double yellow had much to say, like "gee jrzy sorry I called BS , you are right after all" Not one , not even the adamant LEO from Pa Steve who first called me a liar. Sorry for the mini rant, I think i might be justified on this one. |
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