M14 Battlesight Zero (posted by request)

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - M14 Battlesight Zero (posted by request)

Posted: 1/28/2003 3:18:08 PM EDT

The standard US Army battlesight zero for the M14 is 250 meters achieved with the zeroing target at 25 meters. Aiming point is the little white square. The bullets group at the upper X which is 4.6cm above the base of the zeroing target. See FM23-8.

Once the rifle is zeroed reposition the rear sight range knob without moving the sights so the 250 meter line between the numbers 2 and 4 on the elevation knob) is opposite the
index line on the receiver.

Shooting point of aim at 25 yards will give you a 200 yard zero assuming GI ammo. This may be a more useful zero especially if you have M1
sights (marked 12) rather than M14 (marked 11).

-- Chuck
Edited as noted above.

Posted: 1/28/2003 3:23:54 PM EDT

[#1]

Chuck,

You read my mind as i was just about to ask the exact same question. Out of curiosity, is the BZO the same for the M1A Scout?

Posted: 1/29/2003 6:17:35 AM EDT

[#2]

Thank you, Chuck. Wanted everyone to benefit from your knowledge.

I picked up a copy of FM 23-8 out of the Armory dumpster years ago.

But my rifle club has a berm @ 25 YARDS, so I can't do meters. They require the target stand to be close to the berm, for safety.

So, the info on YARDS, 25 to zero for 200, should be very helpful. Thanks again!

Posted: 1/29/2003 3:14:24 PM EDT

[#3]

Chris --

The Bush/Scout model has a lower muzzle velocity than the m14 and the front sight is a bit higher. (Surprising as sights on my M1 and T26E1 [7.62mm M1 Tanker] are identical).

There are also some wide variations in 7.62mm cartridges.

But a 25 yard zero is only about an inch low at 200 yards on mine and only abour 2.5" low at 200 meters. Not to cut it too fine, but I zero at 25, move it up a click and reset the sight to 200 and leave it there. Shoot at 200 yards when you get the chance and truly fine tune.

I've started shooting this rifle quite a bit at fun "plate shoots" because the lightweight 5.56mm bullet lacks the momentum to consistently topple 1"-1.5" thick track plates at 100 - 150 meters.

Same zero works for me with both the M1A Bush and T26E1.

-- Chuck

Posted: 1/29/2003 3:41:16 PM EDT

[#4]

Chuck,

Thanks again. For what its worth we shoot at plastic frisbees randomly thrown about on a berm at 300 yrds. They're light enough that, when hit by a 5.56 round, they flip when you hit them. Try it some day.

Safe tour, Chris

Posted: 2/2/2003 7:51:45 PM EDT

[#5]

Hey Thanx Chuck. I've been looking for BZO for my SA CMP Garand. I'm gonna try your method out using M2 ammo.

Posted: 2/24/2003 3:44:03 AM EDT

[#6]

What if your only choices are 50 and 100 yards?

Posted: 2/26/2003 2:32:26 AM EDT

[#7]

Assuming USGI M80 Ball, or other NATO loaded military cartridge:

For a 200 yard downrange zero the bullet is 1.1" high at 50 yards and 2.4" high at 100 yards.

For a 200 meter downrange zero the bullet is 1.4" high at 50 yards and 3 high at 100 yards.

Note the very small differences in trajectory in the two above. Always zero at the longest range you can.

Even if you zero at a yard meassured range use whichever zero is appropriate to your rear sight markings. Many M1A rifles use M1 sights calibrated in yards. This sight has the number 12 on it. M14 sight has the number 11 on it and is calibrated in meters.

-- Chuck

Posted: 7/23/2004 11:15:55 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
What if your only choices are 50 and 100 yards?

How you hold on the bull probably matters, but when I was rezeroing the irons on my SA Scout recently, it seemed that when I was "dead on"(poa = poi) at 50 yards, I was also dead on at 100 yards, using Aussie F4 ball. The rear sight was bottomed out, and I adjusted the elevation wheel so the "1" was set next to the index mark on the receiver. I know, I know, the "manual" says do it differently.

Then when I went to shoot laundry soap jugs at 200 yards, I hit the first jug in 2 shots. The only elevation change I had dialed in was from "1" to "2". I know, yards ain't meters. But I was shooting soap jugs, not apples. I still need to shoot some careful 200 yard groups, and maybe readjust the elevation wheel a click or two.

If all you have is 50 yards, setting your elevation wheel to "1" after sighting in will get you pretty close in calibration out to at least 200 yards, at least until you can test group it well at 100 or 200 yards and further refine your zero. HTH.

Paladin

Posted: 8/1/2004 8:19:54 PM EDT

[#9]

How many inches is 4.6cm?

Also, I fire on NRA high power targets at 100 meters. I aim at the bottom of the circle and my bullets impact in the center (about 3 inches above point of aim). What type of battle sight zero would that give me? Thanks!

Posted: 8/15/2004 1:28:18 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
How many inches is 4.6cm?

Also, I fire on NRA high power targets at 100 meters. I aim at the bottom of the circle and my bullets impact in the center (about 3 inches above point of aim). What type of battle sight zero would that give me? Thanks!

4.6cm=1.9 inches.

Posted: 9/2/2004 11:52:44 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:
What if your only choices are 50 and 100 yards?

How you hold on the bull probably matters, but when I was rezeroing the irons on my SA Scout recently, it seemed that when I was "dead on"(poa = poi) at 50 yards, I was also dead on at 100 yards, using Aussie F4 ball. The rear sight was bottomed out, and I adjusted the elevation wheel so the "1" was set next to the index mark on the receiver. I know, I know, the "manual" says do it differently.

Then when I went to shoot laundry soap jugs at 200 yards, I hit the first jug in 2 shots. The only elevation change I had dialed in was from "1" to "2". I know, yards ain't meters. But I was shooting soap jugs, not apples. I still need to shoot some careful 200 yard groups, and maybe readjust the elevation wheel a click or two.

If all you have is 50 yards, setting your elevation wheel to "1" after sighting in will get you pretty close in calibration out to at least 200 yards, at least until you can test group it well at 100 or 200 yards and further refine your zero. HTH.

Paladin

I've also found that shooting 50 gives an approximate 100 yd zero (shooting surplus port ammo). I've spoken to someone else at my local range and he said the same thing. I guess I'm not just crazy.

Posted: 9/4/2004 4:33:58 AM EDT

[#12]

50 yard zero has a computed impact point of less than a bullet diameter high at 100 yards with this rifle and ammo. Good enough for government work.

-- Chuck

Posted: 10/22/2004 1:42:01 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
The standard US Army battlesight zero for the M14 is 250 meters achieved with the zeroing target at 25 meters. Aiming point is the little white square. The bullets group at the upper X which is 4.6cm above the base of the zeroing target. See FM23-8.

OK so does this mean for a regular 10 ring target POA is the center and POI is 4.6 cm above that and thats the 250 meter zero? I dont know which target it is you are speaking about here..would this apply for zeroing either the scout squad or M1A Socom 16?

Once the rifle is zeroed reposition the rear sight range knob without moving the sights so the 250 meter line between the numbers 2 and 4 on the elevation knob) is opposite the
index line on the receiver.

Shooting point of aim at 25 yards will give you a 200 yard zero assuming GI ammo. This may be a more useful zero especially if you have M1
sights (marked 12) rather than M14 (marked 11).

-- Chuck
Edited as noted above.

Posted: 11/10/2004 3:42:51 PM EDT

[#14]

Sorry I missed this message (by three weeks!). I don't think "Sticky" messages show in "My Active Topics" but we'll soon see!

The bullet should strike 4.6cm above the point of aim at 25 meters for it to strike point of aim at 250 meters. If it strikes point of aim at 25 yards it'll strike point of aim at 200 meters (mixed measurements I know!).

If you're using a lollipop sight picture the bullet should strike 4.6cm above the bottom edge of the black. What "ring" that may be I've no clue.

See page 96, FM23-8 (Apr 74). Still the best M14 reference.

-- Chuck

Posted: 11/11/2004 6:16:37 AM EDT

[#15]

See page 96, FM23-8 (Apr 74)

i am not in the military or LE

where can i find thie reference?
See page 96, FM23-8 (Apr 74)

Posted: 11/11/2004 3:51:59 PM EDT

[#16]

Try a Google search, you should be able do download a copy from the web.

-- Chuck

Posted: 11/11/2004 7:32:07 PM EDT

[#17]

Try page 97 (Adobe page) of this document. You may be able to Right Click and Save-As.

Username: manuals
Password: chipin

www.subguns.com/biggerhammer/manuals/pdfs/m14_m14a1_rifle_marksmanship.pdf

-- Chuck

Posted: 12/17/2004 1:56:56 PM EDT

[#18]

that's it! Hey I got through the firewall @ work!

Posted: 12/25/2004 8:12:07 PM EDT

[#19]

In case anybody needs a visual of the target. This is the thousand inch target used to zero both M1 and M14 rifles.

HTH
-Bryan

PS if anybody wants it, I can scan this and email it to you. You can print it on regular copy paper. IM me.

Posted: 12/26/2004 6:41:02 AM EDT

[#20]

Top X is for M14 and M1.

Bottom X is for M16A1. Or was. The Army soon found POA using the L(ong range) sight aperture at 25 meters turned into a 250 meter zero with the sight pulled back to the unmarked aperture.

I have this target available as a printable .PDF file, but have no place to post it. I can send it by return Email to anyone interested.

-- Chuck

Posted: 2/27/2005 7:01:29 AM EDT

[#21]

Thanks for the info - for all of us metrically challenged - 2.54 cm ='s 1 inch so just think of 5 cm as close to equalling the ever popular 2 inches high (give or take) setting at 100 and there is about a 10% difference in foot/yardage measurement between yards and meters - meters are longer so you have to adjust higher if you are playing on a metric range.

Posted: 3/25/2005 5:51:58 PM EDT

[#22]

If anyone's interested, I made a printable target for just this purpose. You can find it at www.notamd.com/misc/m1a.pdf.

The target consists of three aiming dots, with a line 4.6cm directly above it. Aim for the center of the dot, adjust sights until the group is on the line directly above the dot.

I used it to sight in my M1A, but I think there is something wrong with my rifle because although it shoots fine from the bench, when I shoot offhand the groups get much bigger. Have to have that looked at

Posted: 3/26/2005 3:10:12 PM EDT

[#23]

Just like golf: It's not you, it's your clubs!

-- Chuck

Posted: 5/23/2005 5:59:06 PM EDT

[#24]

How do you re-position the sight knobs w/o moving the sight. Do they unscrew so as to make them re-positionable (is that a word?)?
MB

Posted: 5/24/2005 2:13:07 PM EDT

[#25]

Could have sworn I posted the link

Try page 97 (Adobe page) of this document. You may be able to Right Click and Save-As.

Username: manuals
Password: chipin

www.subguns.com/biggerhammer/manuals/pdfs/m14_m14a1_rifle_marksmanship.pdf

For the link challenged:

1. Rotate the elevation knob forward until the sight is all the way down. Count the clicks as you do so. Write this number down for future reference.

2. Loosen the screw on the elevation knob until you can rotate the knob forward forward again. Still rotating forward stop when the 250 line (long line between 2 and 3) is aligned with the index on the receiver. Now continue to rotate forward the same number of clicks you counted in step 1.

3. Hold the elevation knob in position and tighten the the center screw. Don't let the sight move. Now turn the elevation knob to the rear and elevate the sight all the way. Tighten the center screw again.

4. Rotate the elevation knob all the way forward until it stops, then back the number of clicks in step 1. The 250 meter index should be aligned with the index line on the receiver. Leave it there.

-- Chuck

Posted: 6/8/2005 6:18:26 PM EDT

[#26]

Can anyone post some pictures or diagrams? I took an M1A out to the range today and couldn't get the thing sighted properly. All of my shots were going low. I had the rear sight as low as it would go. Am I able to raise the front sight post?

Posted: 6/9/2005 3:23:49 AM EDT

[#27]

Did you click on the link posted a couple of times above?

Standard M14 sight on the front? Standard or bush barrel? Standard flash suppressor?

Your rear sight may need a slight modification to allow it to go down all the way into the sight body.

-- Chuck

Posted: 10/26/2005 9:49:35 AM EDT

[#28]

How would you recommend going aobut modifying the sight aperture that way?

I could get access to the Mechanical engineering lab (I go to MSU) and clamp it in and use a surface grinder. Other wise all I have is a regular bench grinder at home.

Posted: 10/27/2005 5:35:15 PM EDT

[#29]

Just drag a file across the area. Don't cut into that bottom tooth if you can help it. You're just knocking that corner off so the sight can go down further.

-- Chuck

Posted: 10/28/2005 4:52:47 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
...couldn't get the thing sighted properly. All of my shots were going low. I had the rear sight as low as it would go.

To RAISE the POI, try turning the elevation knob to RAISE the rear aperture. IIRC about 8 or 10 clicks is normal. If your rear sight was "as low as it can go" there is probably nothing wrong with "all your shots" going low.

Paladin

Posted: 10/28/2005 2:23:33 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Quoted:
...couldn't get the thing sighted properly. All of my shots were going low. I had the rear sight as low as it would go.

To RAISE the POI, try turning the elevation knob to RAISE the rear aperture. IIRC about 8 or 10 clicks is normal. If your rear sight was "as low as it can go" there is probably nothing wrong with "all your shots" going low.

Paladin

Wait a second... why wouldn't raising the rear site lower the point of impact?