I don't think I have enough fingers and toes to count all the different optics I've tried (or seriously considered trying) on my STG's in search of my "perfect" setup. I've tried at least one model from each of the "Big 3" (Aimpoint, Eotech, Trijicon) and none of them are "perfect" for my particular needs (YMMV).
    Since my perfect optic doesn't exist I have to compromise somewhere, whether it be features, flexibility, battery life, ruggedness, reliability, etc. (It sux being a perfectionist 'cause I don't want to compromise on *anything*! )
    Now, I'm a big fan of KISS (no, not the band, stupid! ) so my "perfect" optic would ideally need no attention from me w/no adjustments, switches, or batteries to worry about yet still be capable of rapid target engagement.
    I ran Eotechs at the recent carbine classes I attended and loved the circle-dot reticle (very fast/easy to locate the reticle when shooting from unconventional positions & eye alignment behind the optic isn't precise) but the buttons aren't as fast/easy to use as the Aimpoint's rotary switch and Eotechs have relatively poor battery life w/more reported problems than Aimpoint or Trijicon. Under stress I don't want to be fumbling w/on-off buttons or find my optic DOA due to battery or electronics failure.
    When I first tried the Trijicon RX30 months ago on my STG w/the std optic rail it was with the ARMS QD mount. This was a mistake because the non-reversible QD levers are on the left where they would snag fingers when working the STG's charging handle and the mount sits high enough to make BUIS very difficult to use (less than 1/4 cowitness) not to mention the difficulty of mounting an optic & BUIS on the STG's relatively short optic rail.
    Fast forward to today where I've just finished testing the RX30 w/the ACOG TA51 mount vs the Eotech 517 I'd been using on my STG's w/the new longer/lower optic rail:

    Eotech pros: Adjustable intensity so reticle can be made visible under all lighting conditions, excellent circle-dot reticle (1moa center dot great for precision shots), uses common AA batteries, optical glass is very clear.
    Eotech cons: Uses batteries, battery life poor at highest settings (appx 1,000hrs at medium setting, appx 100hrs at highest setting), relatively slow to turn on & adjust intensity (anti-KISS), intensity must be adjusted when transiting areas w/varying levels of ambient light, many more reported problems than Trijicon (most common problems are draining batteries when turned off, sudden electronics failure requiring removal of batteries to "reset" the electronics & reticle turning off when firing due to battery contact compression over time), too long to allow front sight to be folded down even on the E4 optic rail, mount clamp doesn't grasp as much rail as the Trjicon's TA51 ACOG mount.
    RX30 pros: Very KISS (nothing to turn on or adjust), huge FOV through the 42mm objective allows reticle to be picked up quickly (again, especially when shooting from unconventional positions), large 6.5moa dot very well suited for CQB, self-adjusting for varying levels of ambient light, tritium clearly visible even when transiting from bright daylight to total darkness w/unadjusted eyes, no batteries to worry about, few reported problems (simple design, not much to go wrong), short enough to allow front sight to be folded down if desired (on the E4 optic rail), dual-bolt rail clamp TA51 mount from their combat-proven ACOG is extremely rugged & durable and sits low enough for a nice 1/3 cowitness.
    RX30 cons: Intensity is not user-adjustable*, bluish tint to objective lens (doesn't bother me when shooting but YMMV), under certain lighting conditions reticle will "wash out" (ex: shooting from a very dark area into a very light area against a very light-colored target**), the open emitter tunnel could allow snow, mud, dirt, etc to block the reticle until cleared, 6.5moa dot not well-suited for precision/distance shots (good to at least 200m as per my own earlier tests).
* = Reticle can be artificially dimmed if too bright by partially covering the fiber optics.
** = Use of irons sights or even just the front sight goes a good way towards relieving this problem.

    With the Eotech you're more likely to need BUIS in case of battery/optics failure whereas w/the RX30 you're more likely to need BUIS for reticle washout conditions.

    I just got back from an O Dark-Thirty test of the RX30 w/the Fenix TK11 60 lumen/240 lumen switchable taclight I use.
Basically, anything past 10yds and you're good to go w/the RX30 regardless of the target's contrast (the darker the color, the better for the RX30) or whether you've got the TK11 set for 60 lumens or 240 lumens.
    Closer than that and you start experiencing reticle washout depending upon the color of the target. Black is good at any distance, plenty of reticle contrast. Battleship gray or green foliage is good at 10yds+ at 240 lumens, 5yds+ at 80 lumens. Light-colored dirt or white paint is 15yds+ at 240 lumens, 10yds+ at 80 lumens. This for a reticle bright enough for fast shooting, not just bright enough to be seen.
    Max effective range w/the TK11 at 240 lumens is at least 100yds, the RX30's dot at night is limited only by the range of the TK11 or your target's visibility.
    Conclusion: The RX30 w/the TA51 mount is the best KISS optic currently available but I would not run it as a stand-alone optic on the STG. IMHO BUIS are a *must* w/the RX30 to cover those situations where reticle washout is a possibility. For indoor use I plan on setting the TK11 at 60 lumens to minimize the possiblity of reticle washout at close range and will run my front sight up at all times (and I may even keep the rear sight up 24/7 as well).
Tomac
STG w/E4 optic rail, Trijicon RX30 & Fenix TK11 taclight:

Thanks Tomac.  I really want to like the RX30.  I have never even held one, I may have to check it out.

Have you tried using any variable power optics? I wouldn't mind reading a Tomac review of the Burris XTR-14 on an STG.

You're welcome. I have another new RX30 for my 2nd STG that I haven't mounted yet that I could loan you if you want to check it out, all you'd have to do is pay shipping both ways.
I've thought long and hard about a variable but the bottom line for me is that the STG is a CQB platform and any variable scope is prismatic w/eye relief & head postion being more critical while shooting than with a 1x RDS like an Aimpoint, Eotech or Trijicon Reflex. I'd rather have the unlimited eye relief than magnification (YMMV).
Tomac

Right on.  Thanks for the offer to let me borrow an optic, that's very kind of you.  I have to decline however for the simple fact that I can't afford one right now.

If I play with yours I will be living of of Ramen Noodles because I spent this months food budget on a new optic.  

Anyone seen the new Insight MRDS?

http://www.insightlights.com/products-mrds.htm

Battery life sucks, but the environmental ratings are superior to similar sights, look very ruggid, and it has an "auto adjustment" for the light intensity. Pretty cool feature. So it's only a matter of time before other optic companies could bring us the same .

I'm still waiting for when the sights can be placed in some type of goggles or glasses like the helmet on the  F-35 JSF has for their heads up display.

I seriously considered that for my FN57 but the price doesn't include the required Doctor mount. Too pricey, IMHO, for what you get.
Tomac

What was wrong with the micro Aimpoints?  I'd think a one of those in a HK Larue mount would work great and leave lots of room for the BUIS'.

I was thinking about running a T1 or H1 when I get my E4.

The Micros are great; typical Aimpoint ruggedness coupled w/insane battery life. However, they have two fatal flaws for my needs:
1) They don't use AA batteries (my ideal optic uses AA batteries or none at all), and
2) The small 20mm tube requires fairly precise eye alignment making it more difficult to quickly acquire the reticle when shooting from unconventional positions w/poor eye alignment.

With that being said, just because it doesn't work for my needs doesn't mean it won't work for yours (and I have a Micro H1 on the wife's PS90 to keep weight at a minimum). If I were going to get an Aimpoint for my needs it would be the CompM4.
Tomac

Tomac, What is the width of the RX30?

I am in the same boat as you on the KISS thinking on our STG's. I once had a RX06 with the 12moa triangle. I had it on my COLT R0635 9MM smg. It was a sweet little sight. I traded it off and then bought the Eotech 512 which I do love but want to make the rifle lighter and do away with batterys as well.

I seen the RX30 in the shop the other day but did not handle it. What made me not want to mess with it was the huge size of it. I really want to keep my STG streamlined as much as I can. The Eotech is a tad "fat" for my taste for the STG. The Reflex as I remember was slim and a little over 4.5" long and about half the weight of the RX30. I was thinking about the ARMS #15 mount for it but when you said the levers hung out too much, I may just use a standard flattop mount for the Reflex.

I was first thinking of one of the new mini ACOG's TA26SG10  that are about the same size of the Reflex. But it is hard to dish out almost $900 for one and not be for sure I would like it. So I am back to the Reflex as the price is about right.

Kind of kicking around the RX30 now that you are talking about it. Damn you! ToooooooooooooooMAAAAACCCCCCCCCCCC!

Another question. On the standard STG rail if I mounted the ARMS #15 all the way to the rear of the rail. Would the levers or any part of the sight or mount hang up on the charging handle in the locked up position? It barely cleared the bottom of the Eotech, Actually the top of the handle was touching the bottom of the Eotech but, it cleared just enough to lock up.

Edit to add: I have the Primary Arms T1 look alike on the STG now. while I like it, it is just not for me on this weapons platform. I guess I will put it back on my AR57 later. It's a great little sight and cheaper. It holds zero very well and the glass is nice and clear. the red dot is nice and sharp as well.

I say measure both if you don't mind.

I seen the pic. It is shorter.

Actually I did want a QD mount for it. I am toying around on getting a 24"barrel and the new carbon fiber hammer pack, along with one of 2020's new lower rail for a QD bipod. When using the 16" I would use a Tango down stubby QD grip (not that I use the front grip much anyway). So, I am kinda still set on a QD mount for the Reflex as I would need to have a longer range scope and QD ring setup as well. Does the TA51 mount retain zero after taking it off?

Dark side? hell.....now where is my Surefire?


Yea, I thought the CH would have some clearance problems. I ordered a new (use) Gen3 stock sans FA from Dave, it will have another CH coming with it. I may get out the dremel and do some minor work on the top of the CH. That is "if" I get the Reflex with the ARMS mount.

I'm sure I will have more questions but it's late and can't think of any yet.......I need COFFEE!

Thanks for your help!

Tomac,

Have you used your RX-30 and looked at  anything orange or red? I have the RX01-23 sight, and it turns everything red or orange to brown. What is the light loss of RX-30 compared to the RX01-23?  Recently I was with some friends and they brought out the clay pigeons. And they just disappeared, as if someone turned on the Klingon cloaking device. They were no more than 70 yards away.
I would be willing to take up that offer, if you are willing to offer it to me?


I have the RX01-23 that has the ARMS mount. And I put it on my friends AUG A3. And it too interfered with the CH. Just need to change the angle of the CH.

I just now finished looking at everything orange & red in the house and while everything looks to be a darker shade of its original color it doesn't look brown to me (the RX30 is advertised as having better color rendition).
Sure, I could loan you an RX30 as long as it's not for too long.
Tomac

two weeks, ok?

Thanks T.

Any chance of getting a few reticle pics, say at midday and in mid evening (low light but not dark) conditions?

Sure, just IM your address to me.
Tomac

I'll see what I can do!
Tomac

Here 'ya go, best I could do on short notice:

8am, rainy & overcast taken from a shaded dock:


12:45pm, still overcast and again from the shaded dock:


Indoors in a well-lit room against a light-colored wall:


Taken from a completely dark basement (it's 25' to the open doors) towards a lit corridor, you can still see the dot in the upper left quadrant of the blue door:


2:45pm with a little direct sun on the RX30's fiber optic collector:


2:45pm again from the shaded dock:


Note: The lens looks much bluer in the pics than w/the human eye.
Tomac

Needs a polarizing filter to turn it into an OEG for when the reticle washes out.

Got a Reflex NSN that works like a champ but you got to turn the filter down to OEG for certain shooting situations.

I think a polarizing filter is a great idea but I'm afraid to ask how much it might cost (the ARD killflash for the RX30 is $125! ).
Tomac

Great pics. That's what I was looking for.
Thanks T.

You're welcome!...
Tomac

For those of you w/std STG's, my son's decided he wants to keep his std STG optic rail instead of replacing it w/an E4 optic rail. So, here's his STG w/an RX30 & Magpul MBUS installed. It's not much of a sight radius and you can't fold down the front sight (which I wouldn't do w/the RX30 anyway) but it fits!...
Tomac

Hi, I'm new here

I recently purchased a used Rx30 with the arms mount for a very fair price. I was planning to put it on my AXR. So I busted my knuckles up pretty good at the range Then I found this thread and saw how Tomac was using the TA51. So I have a TA51 in my hand, but there is obviously another piece required to attach the TA51 and RX30.


Does anyone know what is needed to attach the RX30 to TA51 mount?


Thanks in advance,

Will

Hi Will,
What piece do you think you're missing? The RX30 connects directly to the TA51 mount via 2 screws w/nothing else in between.
Tomac

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/6832/ta51.jpg


Thank you for the speedy reply. The screw holes are in completely different places and do not match up in any combination.

Wow, that's strange. I suggest you contact Trijicon directly or IM bullitt5172 (tell him Tomac sent you) to get this resolved.
HTH, keep us posted!...
Tomac

Thanks for your help, I will post the solution when I find it.

Will

Hello Guys,

About 7 months ago I purchased the Aimpoint M4. The unit is designed for installation on most types of weapons like the STG-556 which have a MIL-Std 1913 Picatinny Rail available. For me, the use of the sight alone without the spacer gave me a perfect cheek weld and optical line of sight. The optical axis of the sight alone (without the spacer) is 1.2” or 30mm. Again this worked out well for me, may not be for everyone!

Keep in mind the mounting knob is ambidextrous and needs to be installed on the right side of the weapon as not to interfere with the manipulation of the charging handle.

Additionally, the M4s models with the lower battery compartment, would not work in conjunction with the torque knob mounted on the right side of the weapon.

I use this system on a regular basis at work and find (for me) it’s an outstanding combination for CQB and quick target acquisition.


http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af360/milder1/DSCF2573.jpg

I've used the Aimpoint CompM4 on the STG exactly as pictured above and it's my 2nd choice for the STG/E4 right after the RX30 (it would probably be my 1st choice if it didn't cost $200+ more than the RX30).
Tomac

Tomac,

I originally was going that same route, however during an instructors course I was told that after a period of time the Trijicon Tritium-Phosphor Lamp fades. What do you know?

Tritium has a half-life of a little more than 12yrs so 12yrs from now the tritium in my RX30's should be appx half as bright as they are now and in 24yrs they'll be appx 1/4 as bright as they are now. Trijicon guarantees the tritium on the RX30 for 15yrs. Of course, this doesn't affect daytime performance as fiber optics provide reticle illumination from ambient light.
Battery-powered sights can change batteries when the batteries go dead but the illumination device (whether it be laser, LED or whatever) also has a service life. I've asked Aimpoint several times what the service life is on their LED's and I've yet to receive an answer and I don't know the service life is on the Eotech's laser.
Both types of illumination have their strengths & weaknesses but I prefer the RX30's KISS-setup (no switches to turn on or adjust, no batteries or electronics to go bad), huge FOV that makes acquiring the reticle very fast from any shooting position and I have BUIS to deal w/those lighting situations where the reticle might wash out.
Twelve years from now (or whenever), I'm sure there will be available some other new super-dooper ultra-modern feature-loaded optic that I can't live without () so I'm not worried about the eventual tritium decay and if by some miracle I decide at that time that I *still* want the RX30 I can have Trijicon recharge the tritium or just purchase another new RX30 (YMMV).
Tomac

Nice.... and thanks for the information!

Follow up

I called Trijicon today and confirmed what I had already deduced.


There are 2 different models of RX30

RX30A- has sequential screw holes intended for TA51 mount.

RX30- has 3 screw holes in Scalene triangle formation intended for RX11, RX14, RX17, RX23 (ARMS), and RX25 carry handle mount.

-Will

I just got one of the STG556's on sale and am eagerly awaiting it's arrival.  Earlier this year, I picked up one of the Aimpoint CS models when they were available.  The price was too good to pass up.  I know that the issue of not being able to replace the battery is cited as a drawback.  However, once you do the math, the sight will be obsolete before the battery dies (8 yrs constant on).  By then, there will be something better and cheaper.  I figure it out to be perfect on the new STG.

That sux. What are your options now?
Tomac

The CS is a good sight for the std STG optic rail as the low integral mount provides excellent cheekweld when coupled w/the STG's higher/shorter optic rail. However, you have to be careful of the mounting bolts on the leftside of the CS' mount or you'll snag your fingers working the charging handle (been there, done that...). The CS' 26mm tube is also a little small for my taste, making it more difficult to pick up the dot quickly when shooting from unconventional positions w/imprecise cheekweld/eye alignment. Yes, battery life is 8yrs+ on the medium setting but when on the max setting it's only about a year.
Tomac

A. I could try the RX11 weaver mount. I am under the impression weaver and picatinny are interchangeable for the most part. If anyone has firsthand knowledge I'd love to hear it.

http://www.trijicon.com/parts/RX30-11web.jpg

B. Sell the RX30 + ARMS mount on gunbroker, then buy a RX30A.

C. Buy RX30A, buy new gun for the current RX30

Hmmm.... tough call. The RX11 Weaver mount *should* work but I can't swear to it and if it does fit just be sure to press the RX30 forward against the rail before locking it down to ensure it doesn't shift forward due to recoil and risk changing your POI.
"B" would be the safest bet, that way you're sure to get a working setup but if you've got the $$$ then "C" is the way to go!
Tomac

What's the cheapest price for the RX30, and what mount would I need to put it on an optic rail for a PS90?

I'm guessing this setup with the rail that comes in the package?

http://www.opticsplanet.net/trijicon-rx30-42mm-reflex-scope-6-5-moa-amber-dot-sight-with-ta51-mount.html

B&H currently has the RX30 w/TA51 mount & free shipping for $382.50: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/562433-REG/Trijicon_RX30A_51_RX30A_51_Reflex_Sight.html
The included TA51 mount should work on the PS90 tri-rail or a PS90 w/the factory ringsight replaced w/an aftermarket Picatinny rail. However, IMHO the RX30 would sit too high on the PS90 for decent cheekweld.
HTH...
Tomac

I have an Eotech on my PS90 currently - Would it be any higher than an Eotech 511?

Wish I had seen this post earlier...

The weaver mount works fine on the STG's rail. Had an RX-30 w/weaver mounted on mine. Borrowed it from a friend so I could evaluate that optic.

Ended up getting a Aimpoint CompC3 instead from SWFA's Sample List.

Edit: This price cannot be beat on the RX30 w/weaver:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/562435-REG/Trijicon_RX30_11_RX30_11_Reflex_Sight.html

Is that their standard price, or just for christmas?

Is that their standard price, or just for christmas?

Probably a bit higher. IIRC the 511 has an absolute cowitness while the RX30 has a 1/3 cowitness.
Tomac

I believe that's their std price.
Tomac

I'm just debating buying another optic vs another rifle. The 6.5 MOA dot is all that is stopping me from ordering that reflex sight right now (because I'd love an optic that did not rely on batteries). I enjoy shooting my PS90 at 50 yards and trying to get decent groups. I do not know if I'd like a 6.5 MOA sight

I like the Aug that you have, Tomac. I have held an MSAR Aug recently, and I really like it. But, I really am not interested in stocking up on another caliber and on new mags. The PS90 is my only rifle, and I am mainly a handgun fan (right handed/left eye dominate).

I did see the 2 year old thread (on this site) that mentioned the eventual release of a 9mm version. Maybe after the next shot show?

I love my PS90, but due to my practicing with my carry gun and new handgun purchases, I haven't shot my PS90 in a year. So, I wonder how much I really need another rifle.

However, if I could get a 9mm rifle (a caliber I have rounds stored) and be able to use Glock mags - this would be pretty cool. Hence - me wanting a 9mm Aug if they ever release it. I'd also buy one with the factory optic to avoid having to deal with a battery powered optic...

Hmmm... decisions, decisions.

I know what you mean about not wanting to stock another caliber. A couple of years ago I was all over the PS90/FN57 combo (both rifle & pistol sharing the same ammo, how cool is that?) and I still have a PS90 for the wife & my FN57 (which I shoot faster & more accurately than any other handgun and that's earned it nightstand duty in my home).
But, I had to sell my PS90 stuff to help my son financially and when I finally got some discretionary cash I was going to replace my PS90's but started thinking hard about the relatively slow reloads, difficulty in finding quality web gear and the (compared to rifle cartridges) relatively low power of the cartridge.
Got to thinking "Gee, if only I could find what would be essentially a .223 version of the PS90!". Tried the FS2000 and didn't care for it. Saw the STG-556 and found myself more and more intrigued by the design (42rd mag, only 8rds less than the PS90 and it's full-power 5.56 w/decent web gear available & speedier reloads!).
Decided to take a chance on "the new kid on the block" and despite a couple of problems which MSAR fixed ASAP I've been *very* happy w/the STG.
Same story w/the RX30, improvements over the original Reflex series tempted me to try it despite the 6.5moa dot. Surprisingly, the 6.5moa is easily good out to 200m offhand and 300m is doable for me if I do my part (and that's all I ask of the STG since IMHO it's primarily a CQB platform). I would prefer their chevron or triangle (last I heard Trijicon is working on RX30's w/new reticle designs) but the 6.5moa dot is adequate for my needs (YMMV).
With all that being said, the current sale on STG's won't last forever (and the current $13.50 price for STG 42rd mags is a killer deal) while I don't see the price of optics changing much anytime soon. Personally (and yes, I'm biased), I'd go w/an STG now to take advantage of the current low prices then pick up another optic later as finances permit.
Regardless, be sure to keep us posted!...
Tomac