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Posted: 4/18/2011 6:28:49 PM EDT
[#1]
Always a good idea to visually check your cases. 
A small price to pay for brass that looks like this. |
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Posted: 4/18/2011 7:27:36 PM EDT
[#2]
I'm generally happy with going old school, but I must say that that brass does look better than factory new.
For me, it's not worth getting a Thumlers and I don't know if I'd want to hassle with drying brass out (been there, done that) but there's no arguing with your picture and the fact that the stuff looks stellar, for lack of a better word. Congrats. Chris |
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Posted: 4/18/2011 8:10:31 PM EDT
[#3]
Rule of thumb is that when you tumble clean something, your media should be softer than the material being cleaned, harder material as a media has the potential to remove brass, this could be a potential to cause problems with multiple reloading cycles and cleaning cycles. Its probably going to be a bigger concern on pistol brass since its potential life is so much longer.
If you have watched any of the videos about large scale firearms manufacturers they often tumble them in a giant vibrating tumbler with a hard ceramic media because it removes material and smooths edges on the gun parts, they are intentionally using a harder material to remove metal from the parts. |
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Posted: 4/18/2011 9:53:17 PM EDT
[#4]
Ive had a handful that gets two pieces stuck side by side in the primer hole
No biggie, I inspect every case as I pull it out of the tumbler |
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Posted: 4/18/2011 11:20:36 PM EDT
[#5]
The primer takes more pressure to seat just because it's so clean, a vibrator tumbler does not remove all the residue(and may leave extra from polish as you said) and this acts as a lube to help ease the primer in seating. An US cleaner does the same thing, it cleans the brass so clean that the primers are harder to seat and the bullets are especially harder to seat, some people even use powdered graphite on the necks after US cleaning to help ease the seating pressure of the now clean necks.
I still prefer the US cleaner, it does the same job as the rotary tumbler but does it in less than half the time with a good unit and the proper cleaner(not home brew) and you don't have to worry about separating the pins from the brass when your through, just rinse, dry, & load.YMMV |
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Posted: 4/19/2011 4:41:42 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
The primer takes more pressure to seat just because it's so clean, a vibrator tumbler does not remove all the residue(and may leave extra from polish as you said) and this acts as a lube to help ease the primer in seating. An US cleaner does the same thing, it cleans the brass so clean that the primers are harder to seat and the bullets are especially harder to seat, some people even use powdered graphite on the necks after US cleaning to help ease the seating pressure of the now clean necks. I still prefer the US cleaner, it does the same job as the rotary tumbler but does it in less than half the time with a good unit and the proper cleaner(not home brew) and you don't have to worry about separating the pins from the brass when your through, just rinse, dry, & load.YMMV EWP, Looks like we have the same experience with the harder seating – good to know that my observation is real. Really not a complain as the only ones I had any sort of a problem was the new Win 308 brass I just brought and clean, but there it was just a matter of needing an extra bit of effort. I am a bit surprise to hear that you think the US cleaner can clean brass in “half the time”. How many pieces of brass, how dirty, and how long was your experience? Not challenging, just wondering. |
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Posted: 4/19/2011 5:16:37 AM EDT
[#7]
I don't use SS or ultrasonic brass cleaning methods, but I do have a possibly relevant observation.
Recently I've been working my way through 1000 brand spanking new Starline 10mm Auto cases. I've noticed that primer seating requires considerably more effort with the new brass than is required for much-used 10mm brass. I use a Hornady Lock-n-Load AP, and sometimes I really have to crank on the handle to get a primer seated properly in this new brass. Might be related to the thing noticed when cleaning brass with stainless steel. |
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Posted: 4/19/2011 6:14:55 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Rule of thumb is that when you tumble clean something, your media should be softer than the material being cleaned, harder material as a media has the potential to remove brass, this could be a potential to cause problems with multiple reloading cycles and cleaning cycles. Its probably going to be a bigger concern on pistol brass since its potential life is so much longer. If you have watched any of the videos about large scale firearms manufacturers they often tumble them in a giant vibrating tumbler with a hard ceramic media because it removes material and smooths edges on the gun parts, they are intentionally using a harder material to remove metal from the parts. On the surface that makes perfect sense. However I've been reloading some of my .45 acp so many times, (it's getting hard to read the head stamp anymore), and they have always been tumbled using the ss media method. Have yet to have a case split or have any issues that would indicate a possible removal of material. I don't make soft "target" loads either, more in the 900 fps or so range. Just my two cents...... PS - The more aggressive the "media separating" method the less chance of any of the ss media sticking in primer pocket, case necks, etc. Not always 100% but it often is. |
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Posted: 4/19/2011 6:17:57 AM EDT
[#9]
I clean ~100 cases at a time in about 15 mins for each batch, this is long enough to remove all the carbon from the insides of the case and clean the PP of all residue, so if the rotary tumbler takes an hour per batch of ??? in that time I can do 400 cases.
I use Shooters Choice Aqua Clean in my US cleaner and it works wonders with no acid that needs neutralizing after cleaning, so just run the US, rinse, & dry and your done. |
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Posted: 4/19/2011 6:40:35 AM EDT
[#10]
Objekt – Yes, you are probably seeing the same thing.
Wingman26 – yes that does make sense, but the key here is the degree of cleaning. When we use SS media, it is only used under conditions that allow it to remove only the very top tarnish surface layer of the brass. In fact, you have to tumble it for at least three hours to do a thorough job. So there is no chance that it would remove enough brass to cause problems. People actually have been using this for many years without problem. EWP – yes, if you can clean 100 cases in 15 min - that is fast. Depending on how dirty the brass is, about 400 pieces of 9 mm brass will take between 2-3 hours to clean. The only potential drawback I see with the US clean would be the need to do the cleaning in smaller batches and the cost of the Shooters Choice Aqua Clean (depending on how much would be needed since I see at Midway a 4 OZ concentrate cost $8.29). |
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Posted: 4/19/2011 7:22:46 PM EDT
[#11]
Stuck media in flasholes. When you push one out, the other falls out also. 
Or needle nose will also take them out . |
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Posted: 4/20/2011 3:30:50 AM EDT
[#12]
Wow! I have not noticed any SS media in the flash hole of my de-primed rifle brass but I will have to look again. I see some 30-30 brass in the photos, which I would guess is large rifle primer-based, have you see any in 223 brass? If I remember correctly, we are also using SS media from different source – would be useful to compare diameters. Will measure and report later today.
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Posted: 4/20/2011 4:46:50 AM EDT
[#13]
Here is a photo of a sample of the rods I got from SS Media.com, to me the ends looks a little bit more regular, of course this could be because they have been more polished by my brass
 . I also measured the rod diameters, and they are all between 0.0390 to 0.040”.
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Posted: 4/20/2011 6:31:02 AM EDT
[#14]
I checked the Buffalo Arms Co site and it appears that their media may be slightly thicker – 0.041”. Perhaps this accounts for the difference?
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Posted: 4/20/2011 11:02:08 AM EDT
[#15]
I am using the media from Buffalo arms.
Look again at my top pic, that's 223 brass next to the 30-30 cases. The stuck media in the flashole is a sometimes thing. Doesn't happen too often, but something to check for. Some headstamps more than others. |
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Posted: 4/20/2011 11:55:57 AM EDT
[#16]
Could be many things apart from the size of the SS media.
I have done lots of rifle brass but have not see any media in the flash hole. However, I only use LC09 (223) and Win (308) brass that I brought new and I use the Sinclair Gen II Universal FlashHole Deburing Tool on all my brass so that may mean that my flash hole is pretty uniform and too large to trap the SS media. All my media in flash hole is with pistol brass with the primer still attached. |
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Posted: 4/20/2011 6:17:12 PM EDT
[#17]
I'm doing a large batch of 30 cal right now, about 4 tumbler loads.
30 Carbine, 308, 30-06, and a few 32 Auto. Will report back in this thread if I get more media stuck in the flasholes. |
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Posted: 4/20/2011 6:56:09 PM EDT
[#18]
I wonder if the media people purchase from the guy over on Sniper's Hide has the same problems. Seems like I remember reading somewhere that the media he sells is different from the media people order from the websites that popped up after the cleaning method became popular.
jonblack |
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Posted: 4/20/2011 8:27:15 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
I wonder if the media people purchase from the guy over on Sniper's Hide has the same problems. Seems like I remember reading somewhere that the media he sells is different from the media people order from the websites that popped up after the cleaning method became popular. jonblack ive tumbled thousands of rounds of .45 acp using the snipers hide media and i havent had any get stuck in the flash hole or get wedged sideways across the primer pocket. Truthfully i havent had any problems with the media to date. |
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Posted: 4/20/2011 10:36:50 PM EDT
[#20]
I have the same results after a few thousand cases tumbled ive had one with media stuck in the flash hole. The media the guy on the hide sells has been tinkered with to find the best size. Buy it from him and you wont have problems.
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Posted: 4/20/2011 11:14:05 PM EDT
[#21]
New to this idea of shine and clean as I am a walnut and corncob old school type...but here on this stainless method do you have to use a liquid cleaner with it also and not just the small steel needles?
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Posted: 4/21/2011 2:50:06 AM EDT
[#22]
As I understand it, yes, there is soap & water involved in addition to the steel media.
Lots of water in this tutorial video: Stainlesstumblingmedia.com tutorial videos link (second video down) For that reason among others, I'm not rushing out to replace my dry tumbling setup with the steel method. |
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Posted: 4/21/2011 6:26:28 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
New to this idea of shine and clean as I am a walnut and corncob old school type...but here on this stainless method do you have to use a liquid cleaner with it also and not just the small steel needles? Typically a teaspoon of regular ol' dawn dish soap, and the same measure of lemi-shine in hot water along with the ss media. Nothing special at all. I like it because it cleans so well and not one bit of dust..... |
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Posted: 4/21/2011 11:53:39 AM EDT
[#24]
I'm using SS media and have had a few pins stuck in the flash hole. No big deal to poke them out.
As far as the comment above regarding pins stuck in cases with primers still in them- why would you run any case in a wet solution with fired primers in place? - you'll not clean the pocket of burnt carbon depoisits - you'll invite corrosion from moisture trapped if you're not imediately going to remove the primer. I purchased a batch of .30 M1 LC brass from a surplus dealer and got brass that was obviously liquid cleaned with primers in place. What a F'ing mess! Lots of green corrosion under the primers, primers were difficult to remove. It certainly made the purchase much less of a bargain. In fact I would have passed on them if I knew the hidden condition. ETA- So in my opinion if you're wet tumbling brass with (spent) primers in them, you're doing it wrong! |
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Posted: 4/21/2011 1:26:31 PM EDT
[#25]
It seems as if you'd have to maintain a dry tumbling setup in addition to the steel "wet" method. Am I right?
From the discussion so far, I gather you'd need to use a "dry" method to get the cases clean enough to size/deprime. Then you run them through the wet stainless steel process to get them super-clean. So, all brass gets two cleanings per reloading cycle. |
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Posted: 4/21/2011 2:24:18 PM EDT
[#26]
I will start off by saying that I have not used the SS method but it looks like a cool idea.
On my 223 brass I wash them, with fired primers in place, in a solution of laundry detergent, vinegar, and lemon juice to get the crud off. After washing I rinse in clean water, dry them on a towel overnight, tumble in a corncob polish, lube and size. I have never seen any signs of corrosion when doing it this way. Most of the time there is a white film in the primer pocket that comes off when I wash and tumble them to get the lube off the cases. While my primer pockets don't come out as nice as the SS method, they look perfectly fine and I have had no issues in the 15 years I have been doing it this way. |
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Posted: 4/21/2011 2:49:11 PM EDT
[#27]
I have been using brass media and it is a little longer. I haven't had any problems.
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Posted: 4/21/2011 3:10:55 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
It seems as if you'd have to maintain a dry tumbling setup in addition to the steel "wet" method. Am I right? From the discussion so far, I gather you'd need to use a "dry" method to get the cases clean enough to size/deprime. Then you run them through the wet stainless steel process to get them super-clean. So, all brass gets two cleanings per reloading cycle. Nope. Decap first using lets say the Lee Universal Decapper, no sizing at that time. Then tumble in the SS media to get everything sparkly clean. After that they get sized, trimmed, etc. Then one more wet tumble to remove the lube. If you have a drying setup, or use a hairdryer on a smaller batch, drying time is fast. I counted about 350 of the .223 cases in a batch so not too shabby..... |
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Posted: 4/21/2011 4:30:12 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
It seems as if you'd have to maintain a dry tumbling setup in addition to the steel "wet" method. Am I right? From the discussion so far, I gather you'd need to use a "dry" method to get the cases clean enough to size/deprime. Then you run them through the wet stainless steel process to get them super-clean. So, all brass gets two cleanings per reloading cycle. I use both. I do everything but removing lube and tumbling finished rounds in Stainless. If I were to only use one method I would keep the Thumlers and toss the Vibratory. |
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Posted: 4/21/2011 5:19:07 PM EDT
[#30]
Yep, I also use both and depends what I'm doing and at what stage I'm at. Live ammo goes in walnut if there's a little lube left. If there's any appreciable lube on the exterior a capfull of paint thinner/mineral spirits will fix that.
Oh, and Objekt, I'm using a universal decapper as well before the first wet pin tumble. I was decapping prior to vibe tumbling too although it did very little to clean the pockets in walnut in the RCBS vibe. Just because I got a screw gun doesn't mean I tossed the hand screw driver away. Just different tools in the tool box. |
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Posted: 4/22/2011 2:22:07 PM EDT
[#31]
Beware the copper washed steel cased S&B 9MM
Its harder to pick out from a pile of brass than you would think, and you won't be happy with the results... ETA: I had a bag of S&B brass that has previously been tumbled, and would have swore up and down it was all brass cased... after running a magnet over it, over 1/3 of it appears to be steel cased... 
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Posted: 4/22/2011 3:02:30 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
As far as the comment above regarding pins stuck in cases with primers still in them- why would you run any case in a wet solution with fired primers in place? - you'll not clean the pocket of burnt carbon depoisits - you'll invite corrosion from moisture trapped if you're not imediately going to remove the primer. I purchased a batch of .30 M1 LC brass from a surplus dealer and got brass that was obviously liquid cleaned with primers in place. What a F'ing mess! Lots of green corrosion under the primers, primers were difficult to remove. It certainly made the purchase much less of a bargain. In fact I would have passed on them if I knew the hidden condition. ETA- So in my opinion if you're wet tumbling brass with (spent) primers in them, you're doing it wrong! I think you have not read my OP carefully. When I talk about "pins stuck in cases with primers still in them", I was talking about "pistol/revolver ammo" brass. Don't know about you, but most people only deprime pistol/revolver brass except they are doing the FLR/deprime step. It is not necessary to clean the primer pocket for pistol/revolver brass. I always dry my washed brass throughly and have never seen any corrosion. |
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Posted: 4/22/2011 3:06:43 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
I have been using brass media and it is a little longer. I haven't had any problems. http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af311/jimmym40a3/photo-2.jpg This is an interesting new twist to the idea! I wonder how efficient this method is compared to the SS media technique? Brass of softer but that does not necessary mean that it will be less effective. Would be interesting to see a head to head test with the two types of media. Durability would be another question. |
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Posted: 4/22/2011 6:40:41 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
New to this idea of shine and clean as I am a walnut and corncob old school type...but here on this stainless method do you have to use a liquid cleaner with it also and not just the small steel needles? Yes, I use a squirt of Dawn and a 45 ACP case full of Lemishine. 
Lemishine, get it from Walmart. This is all they had last time I made a run. It's in with the dish washing detergents. Old bottle on left, 5 new bottles on the right. Same price $3, just 3 oz's less. 
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Posted: 4/24/2011 6:32:22 PM EDT
[#35]
I finished my 4 batches ( 4 tumbler loads) of 30 cal brass and no media in the flasholes. Cases were 32 ACP, 30 Carbine, 7mm Rem Mag, 308, and 30-06. So I'm thinking the media in the flashole problem is due to larger flasholes in some brass. |
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Posted: 4/24/2011 6:35:32 PM EDT
[#36]
Nice! Yes, media in flash hole is most likely a function of the hole diameter.
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