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Posted: 3/14/2010 6:36:08 AM EDT
[#1]
Use whatever Small Rifle primers you can find( NOT Rem 6 1/2). Use whatever bullet you choose as well, as long as it is of the same weight and similar in design and construction as your load data. After all you are not using the same firearms used in your data either, just start low and work up. Best to get data from several sources as well. All of the powder manufacturers have free online data.
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Posted: 3/14/2010 6:46:12 AM EDT
[#2]
As far as I know, .223 doesn't have the same differences in case capacity with civilian vs military cases. So the start 2 grains below listing if using military cases doesn't apply.
If you weigh a few of them, they'll be close enough to use interchangeably as far as starting/mid pressure loads go. If you are going to try to get military velocities, then I would have a different load for each head stamp. With that being said, there is at least one brand of civilian ammo that IS really heavy, but for the life of me, I can't remember which one. Those you want to have a different load too. |
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Posted: 3/14/2010 6:54:11 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Good morning… I've been lurking here for months as I research and assemble the materials and knowledge necessary for reloading. I've settled on the hardware (RCBS press is on a UPS truck and should be here Wednesday). My questions concern gathering the right consumables to get started safely, while using different groups of brass. I'll be reloading .223 and .38/.357; here's my hang-up, using .223 as my example: The availability of primer / powders is making component selection difficult, as well as ambiguity between sources. Using .223 (to be shot in my AR; 16" M4 profile barrel with 5.56 chamber). I understand the concept of starting with a min starting load and working the load up (and frankly I'm not interested in pushing the limits, so stopped at 10% less than max is fine). Purpose for now is plinking / learning to reload. I have roughly 800 cartridge cases that I've collected; about 20% of them are LC (most of which were mine); about 50% are Winchesters and about 30% of them are FC. Read up on FC brass, some are bad, some ok. (top of the page) There are small quantities of other headstamps that I'm not using yet. My research tells me that all other things being equal, I need to work up loads for each different cartridge (accounting for differences in capacity, etc). Notice in your reloading manual that there is a "start" load. This is where you can change the brand of bullets (has to be the same weight), change the headstamp of case, and brand of primers. Use the powder specified and work up your load watching for pressure signs. Reloading manual has info about pressure signs. I'm at the point where I'm ready to purchase bullets, primers and powder. Using the Lyman Reloading Handbook (49th edition) as a reference (p. 137), they use a Remington 7 1/2 primer (not the hard CCI #41 that is often talked about for the AR). Ok - I can't find them for sale, yet I can find the CCI #41's (Powder Valley). I don't know what I don't know yet, so are the two equivalent enough to continue to use Lyman's load data? Answered above. If so, I continue to selection of bullets and powder. I've been shooting 55 gr. XM193, so I'm considering the Hornady HOR2267B100 .224 55GR FMJ-BT W/C from Powder Valley - The Lyman manual doesn't have this bullet (a FMJ-BT W/C), only a .55 GR Jacketed SPT. GTG? Yes. My concern, is at this point, I'm two deviations from the manual (different primer than the Remington 7 1/2 and a different bullet design). I can get a powder that's listed with the 55 GR Jacketed SPT in the Lyman manual (H335). It is entirely possible that I'm over thinking this, but since my face will be close to the gun I want to make good decisions here… Advice? Rick Welcome to Arfcom, read all the info at the top of the page, you will learn a lot. Lyman 49 is a great reloading manual, and the "how to reload" section is a good one. |
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Posted: 3/14/2010 10:28:15 AM EDT
[#4]
All - thanks for the input. Summarizing what I've taken from your comments:
- Check the FC brass per http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=276154&page=1 - With any of the inspected and polished brass I've got (de-crimped LC, Win or good FC), pick a small rifle primer (other than Rem 6 1/2), pick a bullet and load to the "starting load" ("suggested starting grains" in the Lyman Manual) for the selected bullet and listed powder. - Will be cross referencing this starting load between Lyman, the powder mfg.'s load data and other available sources (the press comes with a Speer manual, I'll likely purchase the Hornady manual). - If you would, double check my thought process: From my example above, given any of my brass, the Hornady 55GR FMJ-BT W/C, CCI #41 primers and H335 powder, I'm finding a 23.0 GR starting load from the Hodgdon site (a 55GT SPR SP bullet) and 24.3 GR starting load from Lyman for the 55 GR jacketed SPT. - Max load from Hodgdon is 25.3; max load from Lyman is 27.0. So, my max would be the lessor of the two. I'd load increments between 23.0 (the lower of the two starting loads) and 25.3 (the lower of the two max loads) for each different type of brass (10 each of 23.0, 23.5, 24, 24.5 and 25??). I'll be watching for the pressure signs as I test from lowest to highest. At this point, I'm still 2 GR lower than Lyman's max. - I'd take the same approach with .38/.357, using a small pistol primer of my choice, bullet of my choice and appropriate powder, noting that the margin between min & max is much less (.7 GR in one example I'm looking at). Thank you for the advice and for being a sounding board! Rick |
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Posted: 3/14/2010 12:46:21 PM EDT
[#5]
I can't think of much else to add, about the only thing I would mention is that IF you have to trim your rifle brass, Trim AFTER you resize the brass. Keep an eye out for crimped primers in the rifle brass if the crimp is not removed then it will be diffcult to seat a new primer. The last thing would be that 38/357 you should never have to trim pistol brass, there is the odd time you will find crimped pistol like 9mm but not sure on other calibers. other than that pistol is a breeze to load.
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Posted: 3/14/2010 7:25:14 PM EDT
[#6]
That's the thread. My first hijacked thread.
Your 223 plan is pretty good. Couple of things I would do different. Until you get to 24.0 grs, just load 5 at the level. 10 once you get to 24.0. In my rifle 25.5 is my max, I had pressure signs at 26.0 grs, so I dropped back .5 gr. Good luck. |
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Posted: 3/15/2010 6:23:08 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
That's the thread. My first hijacked thread.
Until you get to 24.0 grs, just load 5 at the level. 10 once you get to 24.0. In my rifle 25.5 is my max, I had pressure signs at 26.0 grs, so I dropped back .5 gr. Got it - thanks! Everything is lining up nicely... I may have even found a local, reasonably priced source for primer / powder that has both in stock! Should be executing the plan shortly 
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Posted: 3/15/2010 6:00:43 PM EDT
[#8]
Now don't you wish you had joined before you did?
Welcome aboard.
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Posted: 3/15/2010 9:18:03 PM EDT
[#9]
Welcome to the board and a new hobby. Most of your concerns have been pretty well addressed. I too would say to only load 5 rounds until a certain point. Dryflash has given you a good point to increase the number of test loads. I wouldn't stay on the bottom and don't be afraid to work up closer to max. Stay w/i your comfort level at first until you get the first few rounds down range and get the nervous feeling over with and realize just how fun it is to shoot your own reloads.
When you are ready work things up to what you are looking for in your loads. I have found my best accuracy in most of my rifles at the upper end. A couple have gone the other way. If you can get the CCI #41 primers I would. If not my next choice would still be a CCI primer. As stated stay away from 6 1/2's. 7 1/2's would also be a good choice. There is really little to no difference between them and others as far as pressure is concerned in most cases. Now that being said I always back off about 1 grain when changing primers just in case. If you wish you certainly can back off more. I have been doing this for a good many years so I have a good working knowledge of my guns and my technique. I would get a couple more load manuals for a cross reference of loads as well as more data. You will be surprised how much difference in some loads. Good luck. |
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Posted: 3/16/2010 4:22:00 AM EDT
[#10]
Great stuff guys - thanks for the feedback. And yes, I do wish I would have landed here sooner.
After I left the military / law enforcement in the early 90's, I stopped shooting for a good while (money was tight, new baby way back then, etc). I knew some day I'd pick it back up and since I'm also one to dive in deep, I always figured I'd get into reloading. It started slow (got a few of the guns out of the safe), accelerated with the AR, trips to the range became a weekly thing and - well - here we are  Already, its been a reason to reconnect regularly with a good friend of mine and start interacting with the fine folks here!
I'm sure I'll be back for more wisdom.... In the mean time, I'm off to check to see the progress of the brown truck and to find the elusive primers & powder! Rick |
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Posted: 3/16/2010 5:07:29 AM EDT
[#11]
I'll add one thought about starting loads.
If the published start load is more than 10% lower than the maximum charge, I would not start there with an eye of working my way to maximum. Instead, I would start at the 10% down load, and work my way to maximum with 0.5 grain charges. This will preserve components. For general plinking inside 100 yards or busting small game, there's not a thing wrong with loading at the low end of the charge weight range with charges that will cycle the rifle. Gunpowder and brass will last much longer. |
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Posted: 3/16/2010 5:37:09 AM EDT
[#12]
In my gun 23g is an accurate light load and 25.1g is also accurate...so for paper punching the 23g load wins. YMMV
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Posted: 3/16/2010 5:55:03 AM EDT
[#13]
If you pick a bullet and a powder that are compatible with your gun then you should have a good spread of powder charge that is accurate.
Buy in bulk. LC brass has been great for me. I've shot some WCC and FC but not enough times to see how many reloads it can handle. If these are plinkers and below max charge(say -2 gr), the difference between LC, WCC, and FC brass might not be noticeable. I really like Benchmark, it covers 36-75gr bullets pretty well. So does AA2230, it is cheaper than the short cut Hodgdon powders, and easier to measure, but the spent cases tend to come out hotter. |
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