Hello everyone

For those of you who don't know who I am:

I'm a Junior in a high school in California (17 years old) and have been designing/copying silencers for the last two years in AutoCAD and the last year in Solidworks.  I have never taken a tutorial in either program, and both were self taught.  Within a week on Solidworks, I was able to model my first can (reflex design).  I also design/model gun parts and accessories for some companies.  Mostly AR15, Sig 55X, and AK47 parts, and some Form 1 cans for people.

If you want to learn more, you can check out my thread on Silencer Talk: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11065

In this thread I would like to discuss some improvements to the Omega baffle I have been working on.

As you can see in the following pictures, I was trying to add as much surface area as I could to the baffles while maintaining strength.  These baffles are modeled after the SWR spectre, which I then modified to 9mm size.  The renders show a 1.375" OD can with a recoil booster minus spring and threads on the tube.  The front would be welded, and the rear will be removable for piston interchanging.  The part which contains the piston is welded to the tube via weld point holes, then ground down to match the OD of the can.  The baffles all have 2 ports on opposite side, one of which the slanted sidewall lines up with.  The spacer part of the tube is ribbed using 5 cuts per step to maintain strength.  The cones are stepped with 1/64" steps coming off of a 30 degree angle cone.  The part at the base of the cone which sticks out is uses to lock the baffles in place, and to make the next baffle face opposite of the previous one.  One of the spacers is shown without the ribs.  The ball nose cuts on the face of the baffle are in the secondary chambers when they are lined up (same with the 1/64" with 30 degree chamfers on the face of the baffle on the other picture).  The five angled holes on the outer sides of the baffle are to create a spin within the secondary chamber, using the primary chamber's gases.  Hopefully it would do enough to keep the gases from escaping to the next primary chamber prematurely.  The one with the ball nose cuts is more expensive to machine I think.  I think would be easy to do the other way on a lathe.  I probably forgot to mention something, but I'll probably remember it later tonight.

What do y'all think?

Pac,


Your work looks, as always, brilliant


I should preface my questions with an advisory: It's been awhile since I took a physics class.

Do you think the micro-steps/cuts/fluting in the baffles would eventually get caked up with lead and/or carbon? How much better would the new omega baffles perform, and would their surface-area advantage decrease as fouling increases?

Thanks Jordan hysics

Since it is for a 9mm I wouldn't be too worried about it getting caked up, unless it were to be used for F/A, but I still wouldn't be too worried.  If it turned out to be a problem, I could just make larger steps.

That looks neat, but that is a WHOLE lot of machining steps, even for a major CNC center.

And as noted by the precious poster, youll probably cake carbon in there, and then lose the improvements you worked hard for.


Im not even sure that those interior cuts are possible on the baffles.

Good job with solid works tho, Ive been trying to get familiar with it.

I learned CADKEY19, and now am having to teach myself Pro/Engineer and SolidWorks.

Looks like a neat idea, and I have only a little experence with actual machining of parts, but I would check with some one who knows that stuff (machining and CNC) and get their opinion.

Thanks,

I was thinking that the ribs could be cut with something like the 1911 rail cutter, but smaller in diameter and thickness. It would create larger fillets though.

Your Solidworks work looks good.

The inner fillets in the baffle will clog with carbon in a 9mm(we won't even talk .22lr.)

The dimples will most likely do hardly anything since they are in the coax area.

I have a coupe ideas for it, I will post again if I can get them to work.

-TS

I only put the dimples in because the gases would be swirling around in the secondary chamber because of the five angled holes.  I have some other ideas as well.  I will try to post them later today.

Nice work man, its awesome to find someone else interested in this as well. Im a JR in Mechanical engineering at the University of Illinois and im actually just teaching myself solid works for the same reason. I just ordered a few books on silencers by Alan Paulson so that i can figure out how they work and get some basic ideas. I figure with my understanding of thermo and fluid dynamics i can make up some pretty sweet silencer ideas.

Now i dont know much about silencers yet, but i will give my input from an engineeing standpoint and my basic knowledge. I belive you are trying to take as much energy out of the gas as possible before the projectile exits the barrel. Your cuts seem like they would do this well by causing turbulence, so i belive the dimples are great ideas. Infact that was my first though on the matter when i sat down and wanted to design a silencer. I am thinking golfball like dimples are a good idea, as well as the surface area adding cuts. I like the slant cuts as well as it causes a vortex motion in the gas which also eats away energy. All in all, it actually looks alot like the idea i had in mind man, so i say great work. Feel free to drop me and IM or something if u got any other ideas.

I currently have some other ideas im trying to figure out how to get working, one of which i think could be awesome. Its a type of self wetting can, basically rewets it self every few shots so that you continually get the benifit of a wet can without having to remove it to spit or put oil in it.


Pat

Quoted: Nice work man, its awesome to find someone else interested in this as well. Im a JR in Mechanical engineering at the University of Illinois and im actually just teaching myself solid works for the same reason. I just ordered a few books on silencers by Alan Paulson so that i can figure out how they work and get some basic ideas. I figure with my understanding of thermo and fluid dynamics i can make up some pretty sweet silencer ideas. Now i dont know much about silencers yet, but i will give my input from an engineeing standpoint and my basic knowledge. I belive you are trying to take as much energy out of the gas as possible before the projectile exits the barrel. Your cuts seem like they would do this well by causing turbulence, so i belive the dimples are great ideas. Infact that was my first though on the matter when i sat down and wanted to design a silencer. I am thinking golfball like dimples are a good idea, as well as the surface area adding cuts. I like the slant cuts as well as it causes a vortex motion in the gas which also eats away energy. All in all, it actually looks alot like the idea i had in mind man, so i say great work. Feel free to drop me and IM or something if u got any other ideas. I currently have some other ideas im trying to figure out how to get working, one of which i think could be awesome. Its a type of self wetting can, basically rewets it self every few shots so that you continually get the benifit of a wet can without having to remove it to spit or put oil in it. Pat

If someone could ever figure out how to purge a suppressor with nitrogen right before every shot is fired, or at least the first shot; that might eliminate first round pop, and maybe the flash that comes out of the can every few shots.  That would be a neat concept.

You should run that through Floworks. I think you will find that with turbulent flow the ribs and dimples won't be effective enough to justify their cost.

Quoted: You should run that through Floworks. I think you will find that with turbulent flow the ribs and dimples won't be effective enough to justify their cost.

I have to agree, run these files through any decent moldflow analyzer and you will find the added machine work will not offset the cost in machine time.  I can definitely appreciate your enthusiasm, but there is no reason to recreate the wheel.  Even for a form 1 build, I am afraid your extra machine code will be be clogged and carbonized within the first mag of 9mm.  

     

Also, after studying your images more in depth, you are looking at more complicated machining than the standard Mastercam.  If you really wanted the abbreviated negative bore path as you have designed, you will probably be better off starting with either investment casting or sand casting of AL to get your basic baffles and then either cleaning them up using CNC, or manual machining.  

The odd benefit of using various casting methods could actually benefit you by flow analysis with the added flash.  The problem with being dependent on manufacturing flash is that it is completely random, and could possibly be in the bullet's path unless you use a reamer instead of trying to clean up the work by using CNC.  Of course the added flash will be negated within the first mag of 9mm because the blast radius will shot peen the flash out of the can.  Which means the first round fired through the can would benefit from the thin walled flash, but the more you shoot it, the louder it gets, and you have just spent a fortune on a metallic wiped can that has no possibility of reproducing the same effects.  

Chaos is a bitch.  

Where is the best place to get floworks? Ive been looking for a modler like that, i mean im guessing it just simulates a flow through a body. Like you place in a starting pressure and volume and it spits out how the flow comes out at the end? I havent gotten around to asking my fluids professors yet but i really doubt that the university will let me use any of thier things.

Pat

Damnit Paco, first GreenO's can got copied/ripped off by Gemtech, now that you post this, I can only imagine they will be releasing a new can soon.  Don't give it up for free!

The 2008 version of Solidworks has the express version of Floworks included. We use CosmosFloXpress to model valves at work.

For a suppressor you could set the inlet pressure around 8-9kpsi and the outlet at 1atm. It will then show you the flow velocity vectors throughout the cavity. I would try and make the outlet velocity as low as possible. I could run a sample on my home PC for you but it crashes a lot when using the 2008 version of the software (not enough computer...)

Hi again,

I don't remember getting this many replies since I last checked on this thread, so I'm going to take some time to sift through them, and I'll post again soon with another idea or two.

height=8

Quoted: Nice work man, its awesome to find someone else interested in this as well. Im a JR in Mechanical engineering at the University of Illinois and im actually just teaching myself solid works for the same reason. I just ordered a few books on silencers by Alan Paulson so that i can figure out how they work and get some basic ideas. I figure with my understanding of thermo and fluid dynamics i can make up some pretty sweet silencer ideas. Now i dont know much about silencers yet, but i will give my input from an engineeing standpoint and my basic knowledge. I belive you are trying to take as much energy out of the gas as possible before the projectile exits the barrel. Your cuts seem like they would do this well by causing turbulence, so i belive the dimples are great ideas. Infact that was my first though on the matter when i sat down and wanted to design a silencer. I am thinking golfball like dimples are a good idea, as well as the surface area adding cuts. I like the slant cuts as well as it causes a vortex motion in the gas which also eats away energy. All in all, it actually looks alot like the idea i had in mind man, so i say great work. Feel free to drop me and IM or something if u got any other ideas. I currently have some other ideas im trying to figure out how to get working, one of which i think could be awesome. Its a type of self wetting can, basically rewets it self every few shots so that you continually get the benifit of a wet can without having to remove it to spit or put oil in it. Pat

Thanks, Pat.

Thats actually a REALLY good idea.  I have some things in mind, so I'll let you know.

I'll try to run it through FloWorks, but I don't really know how to use it very well.

I'll give up those ribs in favor of something else I have in mind.  I don't think Gemtech would steal these designs, because SWR would probably not be very happy if they did.

Right now, the piston assembly is just there to show a piston will be there.  It's nothing final, but I'm going to make it more like the KAC booster assembly (O ring, metal buffer, ratchet plate retainer, etc).  Maybe some simpler features will work better.  I'll see what I come up with hange

I think you should move to a free state, and submit a Form 1. Then post results.

At some point, there is a marginal performance return on time/money spent in upgrading a concept.
I'm pretty sure you blew right by it!

Nevertheless, without a rework of the omega concept itself I'd have to imagine that's as quiet as it gets.
Good work as always Paco!

Quoted: Quoted: I think you should move to a free state, and submit a Form 1. Then post results. I think he would need to ask SWR FIRST before making a something that violates the Omega Patent.

SUE HIS ASS!!!

height=8

Quoted: I'm sorry, did you say that both ends of this can are to be welded shut?  Why?

Only the front is welded shut.  The rear is able to unscrew for piston changes, lubing, etc.

I don't have any lathes, so I wouldn't worry about trying to F1 a can just yet.  I do have a mill though.... Here


http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1773/pacomegabaffle13751cj5.jpg




http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1798/pacomegabaffle1375eq6.jpg



http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/1719/pacarcanecan13752vq7.jpg

Swiss Cheese Omegas.  That looks real easy to manufacture too.  

Well, after I while, I decided to make a Trident look alike so I could see what I was going to be able to work with (and it looks great on a 1911 model).

I made the OD of the LCD 1.375" because by the time I finished modeling it  I remembered it's also used with the 1.25" OD Shadow9 making the OD of the real LCD 1.25" as well.  Oh, well.  The can is the same length and width as the Trident based on OD and length dimensions from the SWR website and 1928A1's website.

I based the insides on the Spectre because I have no idea what the inside actually looks like.  I think the part that looks the best is the LCD because of the knurling I was able to model on it.  I also modeled the other version of the LCD's body which is shown last, but I can't get the color to change correctly for some reason.  I used the pictures from 1928A1's website to help in the modeling process.  I can now make improvements on the stack and see what it would look like if used on a Trident.

Here is what it ended up looking like.


And NO ONE can have this model, since I can't control what you do with it.  Sorry.




http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/8646/swrtridentbasemodelah3.jpg

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/8018/swrtridentbasemodel1jp9.jpg

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/3453/swrtridentbasemodel2go6.jpg

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/9245/swrtridentbasemodel3jd1.jpg

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/1081/swrtridentbasemodel4xm7.jpg

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/5833/swrtridentbasemodel5nh2.jpg

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/3993/tridentbasefrontplate1ar0.jpg

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/4648/tridentbasefrontplatema5.jpg

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/4114/tridentbaseomegabaffle1oe3.jpg

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/5812/tridentbaseomegabaffle2mc7.jpg

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/6400/tridentbaseomegabafflezn9.jpg

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/5492/swrtridentbasemodel6px9.jpg

Thanks Green0,

I'm working on different stuff to put in it, and a three lug version.  I'm still working on modeling threads to spec, but it's coming along.