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Posted: 2/23/2017 9:52:07 PM EDT
[#1]
I just placed an order for the NCS blue filters this week. I'll let you know what I think of them when they show up. I will say as far as the amber filters I really like NCS the best. I have used both the Wilcox and Orion filters before and find the NCS to work better for me.
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Posted: 2/25/2017 8:57:37 PM EDT
[#2]
Yes, with a green-cutting filter, you get whitish light from P43. Theoretically, you could get any color of white.
See that red line? That's P43. Notice you got blue, green and red emissions in that red line ( ignore the blue and green lines )? If you cut them with a filter, in just the right way, you get white light. I suggest you don't bother - you'll only degrade performance significantly under all circumstances. Regards David |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 3:28:37 AM EDT
[#3]
What are you guys specifically trying to achieve with filters on the output side? Better contrast? Reduced eye strain? Is this desire to filter the output an indicator that white phosphor is not all up side and that there are also some down sides to it?
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Posted: 2/26/2017 3:30:26 AM EDT
[#4]
I was mostly curious what all the hype over white phosphor was about.
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Posted: 2/26/2017 4:16:10 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was mostly curious what all the hype over white phosphor was about. I'm hearing claims that the new white phosphor provides better contrast. I was under the impression from the beginning that a green output was chosen because a human eye could distinguish contrast better with a green screen. I suspect that the issue lies not in the fact that the phosphor is white but that the specific white phosphor that was chosen has enhanced properties. Maybe David can chime again. |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 8:34:37 AM EDT
[#6]
I haven't actually had much of a chance to try WP over green, but everything I see suggests P43 is superior - Also, post-purkinje-shift, the eye can't see color anyway. At some point, the image will always appear B&W regardless of color - but when it does, green is a pretty good color to start with.
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Posted: 2/26/2017 9:58:05 AM EDT
[#7]
Every study I have ever read said the human eye can distinguish more shades of green than any other color. Which makes it a great phosphor color.
That being said the difference between black and white is more pronounced. Having looked through a few filmless WP tubes i was impressed. They are amazing tubes. I am just not sold they are worth 1K more over the same green phosphor tube. Some guys swear by WP tubes. I still use green phosphor. I think it is a personal choice. The TNVC folks love WP tubes. |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 12:37:00 PM EDT
[#8]
Doesn't P45 have a quite substantial amount of green in it too though?
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Posted: 2/27/2017 10:39:11 AM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 2/28/2017 1:26:38 AM EDT
[#10]
Is that P43 with a filter to remove a lot of the green and balance the colors?
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Posted: 2/28/2017 1:38:10 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOk im slow. Tell me what I'm looking at here. This is just a filter one can put on the lense? Looks interesting enough to at least try if the price is right. |
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Posted: 2/28/2017 9:48:03 AM EDT
[#12]
Its an LIF filter screwed into the eyepiece. I was messing around a while back and tried it out. Just a plain 'ol MX10160 in a Pitbull housing with AVS 9 lens.
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Posted: 2/28/2017 10:24:53 AM EDT
[#13]
i have tried that before but i got a much more pink image than you seem to have , i am wondering how long it will be till people are wanting green filters to make the white tubes look like good old green nv.
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Posted: 2/28/2017 11:43:22 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i am wondering how long it will be till people are wanting green filters to make the white tubes look like good old green nv. ...I remember, back in my day, we had night vision images that were green and cars that rode on rubber wheels on the ground. |
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Posted: 2/28/2017 8:30:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its an LIF filter screwed into the eyepiece. I was messing around a while back and tried it out. Just a plain 'ol MX10160 in a Pitbull housing with AVS 9 lens. David. |
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Posted: 3/2/2017 12:25:01 AM EDT
[#17]
Spectrograph of wavelengths at eyepiece. Gen3 ITT tube
NOTE wavelength specified on chart is off by ~38nm so add 38nm to indicated wavelength. Color in top right is accurate, as well as levels, just spectrograph was not calibrated for wavelength when image was snapped by me. 
Gen 1 cascade tube varo 
Gen3 ITT NE220 not sure what omni class 
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Posted: 3/2/2017 5:07:13 AM EDT
[#18]
Gen3 P43 I assume?
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Posted: 3/2/2017 8:58:20 AM EDT
[#19]
Yes, it's my ITT pinnacle PVS-14.
P43 s/n:27.2 72lp/mm |
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Posted: 3/2/2017 10:10:56 AM EDT
[#20]
it would be intresting to see the white phos spectrograph and the p20/22 also , if you have those handy , looks like there is a bit of blue in the green but well defined peaks and nothing in between
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Posted: 3/2/2017 10:23:39 AM EDT
[#21]
I have a lif filter that should be delivered Monday.
This lif filter is used by pilots to lower the brightness of the green instrumentation lights when using night vision as it attenuates the green wavelength. I can post a spectrograph when it arrives, this will show the amount of attenuation of the green that is happening. I have a gen3 NE220 not sure which omni class tube I would like to hook up to my spectrograph as well. I don't have any WP tubes or others. With a xenon light source I can show the notch the LIF makes as it blocks the green wavelength. 
Ryobi 18v xenon spotlight 2500+ lumens I have one of those so I guess I have a xenon light source just need to make a light box for it. I guess I have a p20 as well, the 3 stage cascade tubes from back in the day. |
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Posted: 3/14/2017 10:53:04 PM EDT
[#22]
Led spectrum without LIF filter, the filter reduces green light.
LED spectrum with LIF filter 
PVS14 photo taken with Iphone 5se image was a little washed out but color is as seen by me 
PVS14 with LIF filter installed on eyepiece 
Poor man's white phosphor tube 
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Posted: 3/14/2017 11:09:55 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...I remember, back in my day, we had night vision images that were green and cars that rode on rubber wheels on the ground. A joke? Get the mods, someone hacked SOT's account! 
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Posted: 3/14/2017 11:11:30 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Led spectrum without LIF filter, the filter reduces green light. http://i.imgur.com/9eG16NT.jpg LED spectrum with LIF filter http://i.imgur.com/pIZylDY.jpg PVS14 photo taken with Iphone 5se image was a little washed out but color is as seen by me http://i.imgur.com/4Pge1VS.jpg PVS14 with LIF filter installed on eyepiece http://i.imgur.com/kpXoc6P.jpg Poor man's white phosphor tube Can I get one of these for a pvs-7? How much? For the right price it looks cool enough to try. Edit: Is this it: Lif filter linky linky |
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Posted: 3/14/2017 11:19:23 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Poor man's white phosphor tube This is interesting. I have experience with white phosphor outside of the NV arena and experience with NV but not the combination of the two. There are definitely some interesting effects in your image. Does anyone know how to disassemble an LIF so I could get it crammed into a demist frame or something similar so I could try this? I would not necessarily want it permanently affixed but I sure would like to try this. Apparently the color shift has a significant effect without the actual white phosphor in question being utilized. It appears we may be able to get enhanced contrast in some situations by using this technique. Thank you for doing this and for posting your results. |
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Posted: 3/14/2017 11:21:39 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can I get one of these for a pvs-7? How much? For the right price it looks cool enough to try. Edit: Is this it: Lif filter linky linky |
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Posted: 3/14/2017 11:28:37 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Poor man's white phosphor tube Huh... thats pretty cool, so the lif just screwed into the eyepiece? Got a pic of it installed? Where did you pick up the lif & which one is it? I always thought they were all the same, since I saw them on the bay & never really noticed anything marking one as different from another. |
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Posted: 3/14/2017 11:30:24 PM EDT
[#28]
The link looks like the filter I am using. I got it off ebay for $35 delivered.
LIF ebay I can't get my mount for the eye-guard off it's on nice and tight, but it should thread into the eyepiece like the demist I believe. I am going to order some lens wrenches as I have had trouble getting some filters on and off and do not want to mark up the housings. It's just pushed into my eye-guard for now. 
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Posted: 3/15/2017 12:02:16 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:It's just pushed into my eye-guard for now.
http://i.imgur.com/FN86YO2.jpg I'm imagining that this modification does not improve performance across the board - only under certain circumstances. I doubt that I will want it mounted any more permanently than you have already done provided it is relatively secure. |
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Posted: 3/15/2017 12:23:57 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Excellent. The PVS-7B uses the same eye-guard as the PVS-14, right? If so, they should be able to cover one eyepiece and compare the two images side by side. I'm imagining that this modification does not improve performance across the board - only under certain circumstances. I doubt that I will want it mounted any more permanently than you have already done provided it is relatively secure. May need some shrink tube or something to make it a tad larger diameter then it will be very snug. |
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Posted: 3/15/2017 1:15:58 AM EDT
[#31]
I did a cursory evaluation of using the LIF over the eyepiece. Here's what I found:
Use of the LIF slightly degraded resolution and/or contrast to the point that I was no longer able to see the seams in a brick wall that I can barely resolve without the LIF. I had an APPARENT increase in contrast but I believe it to be a false perception. It definitely has a different feel to it. Someone mentioned previously that people switching back and forth between I2 and thermal imaging may adjust to the transition between two different white screens better than between a white screen and a green screen. If I were in that position then I would definitely consider trying this - it may help. The LIF must be secure. If the lens plane becomes askew then the image becomes inconsistently pink. My Omni V image always looks sage grey to me. Immediately transitioning to use without the LIF after having used it, the image appeared vividly green. I don't think this is any kind of big win but it sure is interesting and is worth exploring further. |
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Posted: 3/15/2017 1:17:02 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have some that we can experiment with. The trick will be getting them mounted. Awesome. I've got something for you. Not sure if you'll want it but I think it's one of those things that's nice to have around for parts. |
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Posted: 3/15/2017 1:19:15 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Excellent. The PVS-7B uses the same eye-guard as the PVS-14, right? If so, they should be able to cover one eyepiece and compare the two images side by side. I'm imagining that this modification does not improve performance across the board - only under certain circumstances. I doubt that I will want it mounted any more permanently than you have already done provided it is relatively secure. Exactly what I was thinking. Be fun to mess around with and possibly a nice addition to have access to if need be and it's easily mountable/detachable. |
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Posted: 3/15/2017 9:23:47 AM EDT
[#34]
I go between PVS14 and IR hunter so the b/w images cause less eye adjustment.
But until I get some time behind the LIF filter in the field the jury is still out for me. It does remove the green very well. |
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Posted: 3/15/2017 10:31:28 AM EDT
[#35]
What a thoroughly interesting thread. I like the spectral analysis. Im going to try it, but im a green guy.
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Posted: 3/15/2017 2:58:39 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I go between PVS14 and IR hunter so the b/w images cause less eye adjustment. But until I get some time behind the LIF filter in the field the jury is still out for me. It does remove the green very well. |
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Posted: 3/15/2017 6:51:33 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The link looks like the filter I am using. I got it off ebay for $35 delivered. LIF ebay I can't get my mount for the eye-guard off it's on nice and tight, but it should thread into the eyepiece like the demist I believe. I am going to order some lens wrenches as I have had trouble getting some filters on and off and do not want to mark up the housings. It's just pushed into my eye-guard for now. http://i.imgur.com/FN86YO2.jpg I bought a LIF from that same listing the other day, I made an offer of $26 and they accepted it. They might even accept a lower offer. |
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Posted: 3/15/2017 7:52:12 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bought a LIF from that same listing the other day, I made an offer of $26 and they accepted it. They might even accept a lower offer. Interesting....Curious, are not LIF's (Light Interference Filter) still a restricted DOD only item? Did something change? We talking about the same filter units that have been restricted for a number of years that are still listed in the current GI issued PVS-14 manual, the same ones we get calls on from many customers even though they may not have purchased from us.... "Why is there no LIF filter included with my PVS-14 since the manual say so"? |
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Posted: 3/15/2017 8:18:42 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting....Curious, are not LIF's (Light Interference Filter) still a restricted DOD only item? Did something change? We talking about the same filter units that have been restricted for a number of years that are still listed in the current GI issued PVS-14 manual, the same ones we get calls on from many customers even though they may not have purchased from us.... "Why is there no LIF filter included with my PVS-14 since the manual say so"? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I bought a LIF from that same listing the other day, I made an offer of $26 and they accepted it. They might even accept a lower offer. Interesting....Curious, are not LIF's (Light Interference Filter) still a restricted DOD only item? Did something change? We talking about the same filter units that have been restricted for a number of years that are still listed in the current GI issued PVS-14 manual, the same ones we get calls on from many customers even though they may not have purchased from us.... "Why is there no LIF filter included with my PVS-14 since the manual say so"? |
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Posted: 3/15/2017 8:34:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting....Curious, are not LIF's (Light Interference Filter) still a restricted DOD only item? Did something change? We talking about the same filter units that have been restricted for a number of years that are still listed in the current GI issued PVS-14 manual, the same ones we get calls on from many customers even though they may not have purchased from us.... "Why is there no LIF filter included with my PVS-14 since the manual say so"? You should be the one here that knows the answer to your own question. I have no clue. |
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Posted: 3/15/2017 9:47:20 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You should be the one here that knows the answer to your own question. I have no clue. I do know the answer to my own question and they are atill restricted, thus curious why we see restricted DOD items out there. Last we were briefed from State Dept. folks and I know last year that these were indeed restricted. Thus, curious how all these restricted items are showing up...I guess we will inquire again. |
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Posted: 3/15/2017 10:22:42 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I do know the answer to my own question and they are atill restricted, thus curious why we see restricted DOD items out there. Last we were briefed from State Dept. folks and I know last year that these were indeed restricted. Thus, curious how all these restricted items are showing up...I guess we will inquire again. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You should be the one here that knows the answer to your own question. I have no clue. I do know the answer to my own question and they are atill restricted, thus curious why we see restricted DOD items out there. Last we were briefed from State Dept. folks and I know last year that these were indeed restricted. Thus, curious how all these restricted items are showing up...I guess we will inquire again. I talked to a DoD investigator and he implied how easy it was to keep up to date on this stuff. I challenged him and he gave me a URL for a database that could be used to cross-check. When I tried to use it the database required a DoD login. It's not as easy for us to keep in the correct lane as the government thinks. They need to give us a way to cross-check this information so we can stay on the straight and narrow. |
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Posted: 3/15/2017 11:43:27 PM EDT
[#43]
I thought LiF's were on the munitions list, commerce list, and ITAR controlled. If so, doesnt mean they cant be purchased and used here, just cant be sold and sent overseas without State Departments say. Who sells them legitly on their websites, because i just googled a few and it only mentioned ITAR restricted.
My only interest in these is to try this "trick" out, but not if I cant buy from a legit source. |
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Posted: 3/16/2017 1:03:21 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I do know the answer to my own question and they are atill restricted, thus curious why we see restricted DOD items out there. Last we were briefed from State Dept. folks and I know last year that these were indeed restricted. Thus, curious how all these restricted items are showing up...I guess we will inquire again. |
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Posted: 3/16/2017 5:36:59 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It never even crossed my mind that they might be restricted. They have always been really easy to find. 
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Posted: 3/20/2017 4:27:33 PM EDT
[#46]
The LIF is coded for local unit-level disposal in the Army/Navy TM. Ie. You throw them in the trash. No control of them, they are expendable replacement parts just like nuts and bolts.
The Army tracks spent brass, but not LIFs. In the Army many organizations routinely replace them during servicing because they are inexpensive (in aviation dollars) and considered a disposable objective lens protector. I have seen boxes full of used 6/14 parts (minus II and eye/obj lenses) floating around hangars, DRMOs, and surplus stores around Army bases. |
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