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Posted: 11/10/2013 8:33:17 AM EDT
[#1]
No more laws thanks.
Legislation doesn't grant freedom, it removes it. |
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Posted: 11/10/2013 8:34:02 AM EDT
[#2]
mmmmmmmmkay..........good luck with that
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Posted: 11/10/2013 9:40:56 AM EDT
[#3]
There were some guys one time who tried to get the Cleo signature removed. They said one had to use trusts to own NRA in states with unfriendly Cleo. Shortly thereafter the dictator from on high slapped an executive order down to help make laws that forced Cleo sign off on all trusts and members of trusts.
You CAN NOT play by their rules to win their rigged game. |
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Posted: 11/10/2013 9:47:04 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No more laws thanks. Legislation doesn't grant freedom, it removes it. Word. |
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Posted: 11/10/2013 10:08:28 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Word. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No more laws thanks. Legislation doesn't grant freedom, it removes it. Word. |
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Posted: 11/10/2013 10:10:18 AM EDT
[#6]
GTFO with more Gun Control.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 10:14:10 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GTFO with more Gun Control. There is NO new gun control in his proposition..... it actually removes some gun laws
I know I know..... Reading is for faggots |
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Posted: 11/10/2013 10:16:19 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: GTFO with more Gun Control. There is NO new gun control in his proposition..... it actually removes some gun laws I know I know..... Reading is for faggots |
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Posted: 11/10/2013 10:23:07 AM EDT
[#9]
It sounds great until they do what they are attempting to RFN!
One of the proposed "reforms" is to adjust the tax for 1930's inflation and therefore, fuck us. All of the sudden that $200 becomes a cost prohibitive defacto-ban all thanks to your freedom giving law and you gave them the tools to do it....Unless of course you don't mind paying an extra $4000 for your guns. |
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Posted: 11/10/2013 10:26:52 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It sounds great until they do what they are attempting to RFN! One of the proposed "reforms" is to adjust the tax for 1930's inflation and therefore, fuck us. All of the sudden that $200 becomes a cost prohibitive defacto-ban all thanks to your freedom giving law and you gave them the tools to do it....Unless of course you don't mind paying an extra $4000 for your guns. It gets SBR, SBS and suppressors OFF the register, Increases the tax to $1000 on MG's , but makes it a $1000 penalty for not having paid the tax I would support this (oh yeah, 24 month amnesty to register machine guns) |
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Posted: 11/10/2013 10:31:35 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It sounds great until they do what they are attempting to RFN! One of the proposed "reforms" is to adjust the tax for 1930's inflation and therefore, fuck us. All of the sudden that $200 becomes a cost prohibitive defacto-ban all thanks to your freedom giving law and you gave them the tools to do it....Unless of course you don't mind paying an extra $4000 for your guns. It gets SBR, SBS and suppressors OFF the register, Increases the tax to $1000 on MG's , but makes it a $1000 penalty for not having paid the tax I would support this (oh yeah, 24 month amnesty to register machine guns) |
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Posted: 11/10/2013 11:36:21 AM EDT
[#12]
Just throw the entire NFA law, and it's registration requirements, in the trash.
It's none of the government's damn business if someone wants to own a machine gun, suppressor or a SBR. |
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Posted: 11/10/2013 12:13:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Lol
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Posted: 11/10/2013 1:01:19 PM EDT
[#14]
Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 1:25:58 PM EDT
[#15]
A man can dream.... lol
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Posted: 11/10/2013 1:42:09 PM EDT
[#16]
While you're dreaming, how about a $0 tax on a fundamental civil right, kthnx.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 2:00:17 PM EDT
[#17]
How about a $1000 tax on BS? No more new laws, social programs, or taxes. The land of the free is regulated, legislated, and taxed out the a...
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Posted: 11/10/2013 2:50:22 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about a $1000 tax on BS? No more new laws, social programs, or taxes. The land of the free is regulated, legislated, and taxed out the a... |
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Posted: 11/10/2013 4:11:45 PM EDT
[#19]
Why would you be willing to tax new AWs? Why not just omit that?
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Posted: 11/10/2013 4:27:49 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would you be willing to tax new AWs? Why not just omit that? I think he's trying to grease the wheels and back door a way for new machine guns to be produced. Because no liberal will ever go for reinstating MGs. Not that they would even if you have to pay $1000 for each one. |
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Posted: 11/10/2013 5:38:03 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think he's trying to grease the wheels and back door a way for new machine guns to be produced. Because no liberal will ever go for reinstating MGs. Not that they would even if you have to pay $1000 for each one. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why would you be willing to tax new AWs? Why not just omit that? I think he's trying to grease the wheels and back door a way for new machine guns to be produced. Because no liberal will ever go for reinstating MGs. Not that they would even if you have to pay $1000 for each one. |
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Posted: 11/10/2013 6:22:26 PM EDT
[#22]
No way. We cannot compromise with the gun prohibitionists. Ever. Look what happened when the NFATCA decided to "work" with ATF to try and end CLEO signatures. They brought the idea of including a NICS check for all trust/LLC/Corp transfers. Guess what, ATF decided they would expand CLEO signature to all transfers, including trust/LLC/corp.
You cannot trust, reason with, or come to terms with those who seek to take away our freedoms. |
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Posted: 11/10/2013 6:40:37 PM EDT
[#23]
Repeal the NFA of 1934, Section 922r of whatever law that was, and GCA of 1968 on the grounds they are unconstitutional under the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
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Posted: 11/10/2013 6:43:03 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No way. We cannot compromise with the gun prohibitionists. Ever. Look what happened when the NFATCA decided to "work" with ATF to try and end CLEO signatures. They brought the idea of including a NICS check for all trust/LLC/Corp transfers. Guess what, ATF decided they would expand CLEO signature to all transfers, including trust/LLC/corp. You cannot trust, reason with, or come to terms with those who seek to take away our freedoms. |
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Posted: 11/10/2013 6:46:45 PM EDT
[#25]
No just no
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Posted: 11/10/2013 6:47:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Read the proposal. This is not a real compromise. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No way. We cannot compromise with the gun prohibitionists. Ever. Look what happened when the NFATCA decided to "work" with ATF to try and end CLEO signatures. They brought the idea of including a NICS check for all trust/LLC/Corp transfers. Guess what, ATF decided they would expand CLEO signature to all transfers, including trust/LLC/corp. You cannot trust, reason with, or come to terms with those who seek to take away our freedoms. His point is, you cannot push a new law that isn't a full repeal. The libs are smart enough to turn around the law that you propose to their own benefit. They will take that $1,000 tax and say "Hey, lets just leave the NFA in place and charge a $1,000 tax." We can't play any kind of word game. |
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Posted: 11/10/2013 8:27:19 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Read the proposal. This is not a real compromise. I did read it. As for not a real compromise, I'm sure this is exactly what the NFATCA thought as well. |
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Posted: 11/10/2013 8:35:55 PM EDT
[#28]
This is getting good!
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Posted: 11/10/2013 8:36:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
His point is, you cannot push a new law that isn't a full repeal. The libs are smart enough to turn around the law that you propose to their own benefit. They will take that $1,000 tax and say "Hey, lets just leave the NFA in place and charge a $1,000 tax." We can't play any kind of word game. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No way. We cannot compromise with the gun prohibitionists. Ever. Look what happened when the NFATCA decided to "work" with ATF to try and end CLEO signatures. They brought the idea of including a NICS check for all trust/LLC/Corp transfers. Guess what, ATF decided they would expand CLEO signature to all transfers, including trust/LLC/corp. You cannot trust, reason with, or come to terms with those who seek to take away our freedoms. His point is, you cannot push a new law that isn't a full repeal. The libs are smart enough to turn around the law that you propose to their own benefit. They will take that $1,000 tax and say "Hey, lets just leave the NFA in place and charge a $1,000 tax." We can't play any kind of word game. Or they will adjust the $200 for inflation and according to this calculator here: http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ that would be $3,494.76 (using 1934 as the first year input). They would probably just round up to $4,000, given that the idea is to price the tax stamps out of reach of the average joe. Then instead of allowing new machine guns to be registered, they will simply add semiautomatic rifles such as AR's, AK's, HK's, FAL's, etc etc. to the list of NFA items, in it's own new category. Some people will say, but they can't do that, blah blah blah, but do you really put anything past them at this point? After the whole Trust CLEO fiasco that we are now experiencing, I'm surprised any thinking man believes it's a good idea to attempt to deal with the devil. |
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Posted: 11/10/2013 9:45:57 PM EDT
[#30]
you also gotta remember that it does NOT take an act of congress for the ATF to redeifne things. if the ATF decides tomorrow that ar's are nfa items, guess what they are nfa items and you will have to register it.
just like back in 01 when they redefined street sweepers as DDs. |
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Posted: 11/11/2013 4:51:17 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: you also gotta remember that it does NOT take an act of congress for the ATF to redeifne things. if the ATF decides tomorrow that ar's are nfa items, guess what they are nfa items and you will have to register it. just like back in 01 when they redefined street sweepers as DDs. |
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Posted: 11/11/2013 5:24:12 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: you also gotta remember that it does NOT take an act of congress for the ATF to redeifne things. if the ATF decides tomorrow that ar's are nfa items, guess what they are nfa items and you will have to register it. just like back in 01 when they redefined street sweepers as DDs. That was A Clinton Executive order based on the fact that ALL guns over 1/2" diameter are , by codified law Destructive devices UNLESS the Attorney General finds is has a "sporting purpose" Clinton just removed the exception.... The same way they could legally make EVERY 12 Gauge in the country a Destructive Device, as legally they already are Were the street sweepers made in .410, he could not have done that.... The ATF CAN NOT "just change the rules" there is a codified rulemaking process they must follow (see 41P the change in CLEO requirement to trusts happening now).... Executive orders however , due to the way the NFA is written dont need to follow that rulemaking process. And finally, no matter how bad they wanted to "make a rule" , codified law trumps rulemaking every time. And the Codified National Firearms Act has very specific properties which it can regulate. ATF can not just "decree" a title 1 firearm is a title 2 firearm cause they want to, and NOTHING about a 16" Semi Automatic AR15 qualifies. I don't know where you guys are getting your information, but a collegiate civics class would do you wonders |
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Posted: 11/11/2013 5:27:31 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is true. Why there is never a pro-2nd Amendment guy appointed there to do the opposite is beyond me. Who has the power to declare an amnesty? Secretary of the Treasury? Attorney General? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: you also gotta remember that it does NOT take an act of congress for the ATF to redeifne things. if the ATF decides tomorrow that ar's are nfa items, guess what they are nfa items and you will have to register it. just like back in 01 when they redefined street sweepers as DDs. No one , Amnesty must be codified in the law, The Attorney General decides which guns over 1/2" bore diameter have a "sporting purpose" , But he can not "declare amnesty" |
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Posted: 11/11/2013 6:05:20 AM EDT
[#34]
The antigunners would see right through it as an attempt to dismantle the NFA. We need to be more subtle than this.
As a nitpick, what would it do for machine guns manufactured during the 24-month "amnesty" period? |
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Posted: 11/11/2013 7:28:43 AM EDT
[#35]
There's no way that would be passed.
Lib voters would hang any D voting for that. also imagine the headlines... "GOP legalizes machine guns to kill more babies" |
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Posted: 11/11/2013 7:50:27 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The antigunners would see right through it as an attempt to dismantle the NFA. We need to be more subtle than this. As a nitpick, what would it do for machine guns manufactured during the 24-month "amnesty" period? |
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Posted: 11/11/2013 9:24:46 AM EDT
[#37]
Have we not yet learned that we don't want this congress nor this administration anywhere near Gun Laws, especially to "improve" them?
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Posted: 11/11/2013 9:53:45 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is NO new gun control in his proposition..... it actually removes some gun laws I know I know..... Reading is for faggots Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
GTFO with more Gun Control. There is NO new gun control in his proposition..... it actually removes some gun laws I know I know..... Reading is for faggots Read My Lips, No New Taxes: 4) AWs manufactured after the amnesty period in section 3 above will be subject to $1,000 tax; Please show me where in the NFA law there is a $1000 tax on an NFA firearm. If you cannot do it, than who is the faggot who cannot read? |
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Posted: 11/11/2013 9:56:12 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Read My Lips, No New Taxes: 4) AWs manufactured after the amnesty period in section 3 above will be subject to $1,000 tax; Please show me where in the NFA law there is a $1000 tax on an NFA firearm. If you cannot do it, than who is the faggot who cannot read? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: GTFO with more Gun Control. There is NO new gun control in his proposition..... it actually removes some gun laws I know I know..... Reading is for faggots Read My Lips, No New Taxes: 4) AWs manufactured after the amnesty period in section 3 above will be subject to $1,000 tax; Please show me where in the NFA law there is a $1000 tax on an NFA firearm. If you cannot do it, than who is the faggot who cannot read? You? He is proposing a law CHANGE..... Show me in the NFA where there is a 24 month amnesty orwhere SBR's and Suppressors are off the registry |
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Posted: 11/11/2013 10:17:06 AM EDT
[#40]
How about a law that says something like:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, PERIOD. |
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Posted: 11/11/2013 10:19:43 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about a law that says something like: A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, PERIOD. Farrrrrrr too confusing
" the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" Would save a ration of shit |
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Posted: 11/11/2013 11:35:04 AM EDT
[#42]
If you want to start something start a drive to remove the "necessary for a free state" part of the second
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Posted: 11/11/2013 12:16:06 PM EDT
[#43]
Pass.
The fact that you think baboons who cannot balance a checkbook are competent to get this right is kind of sad. Shall not be infringed. |
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Posted: 11/11/2013 12:39:06 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No one , Amnesty must be codified in the law, The Attorney General decides which guns over 1/2" bore diameter have a "sporting purpose" , But he can not "declare amnesty" GCA 68, a codified law, gave the Secretary of the Treasury the authority to grant new amnesties at any time. That authority transferred to the Attorney General when ATF moved from Treasury to Justice. No SecTreas or AttyGen has authorized any additional amnesties to date. |
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Posted: 11/11/2013 12:42:29 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GCA 68, a codified law, gave the Secretary of the Treasury the authority to grant new amnesties at any time. That authority transferred to the Attorney General when ATF moved from Treasury to Justice. No SecTreas or AttyGen has authorized any additional amnesties to date. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No one , Amnesty must be codified in the law, The Attorney General decides which guns over 1/2" bore diameter have a "sporting purpose" , But he can not "declare amnesty" GCA 68, a codified law, gave the Secretary of the Treasury the authority to grant new amnesties at any time. That authority transferred to the Attorney General when ATF moved from Treasury to Justice. No SecTreas or AttyGen has authorized any additional amnesties to date. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting either. |
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Posted: 11/11/2013 12:42:43 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GCA 68, a codified law, gave the Secretary of the Treasury the authority to grant new amnesties at any time. That authority transferred to the Attorney General when ATF moved from Treasury to Justice. No SecTreas or AttyGen has authorized any additional amnesties to date. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No one , Amnesty must be codified in the law, The Attorney General decides which guns over 1/2" bore diameter have a "sporting purpose" , But he can not "declare amnesty" GCA 68, a codified law, gave the Secretary of the Treasury the authority to grant new amnesties at any time. That authority transferred to the Attorney General when ATF moved from Treasury to Justice. No SecTreas or AttyGen has authorized any additional amnesties to date. |
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Posted: 11/12/2013 4:55:02 PM EDT
[#47]
First, to the OP, I appreciate your enthusiasm. I also agree that the most likely way that we repeal "Hughes" is with trickery just like it was passed in the first place. I personally favor some retiring congressman dropping a single sentence in a 1,000 page bill that is a must pass piece of legislation. Second, to those that vehemently oppose trying to do something about Hughes similar to what the OP proposed basically means you are in favor of the status quo because a flat out open repeal of NFA ain't likely anytime soon if ever. And what does the status quo mean? It means when my son is my age an M16 will cost him $50,000 if not more. So while you are nay saying the OP's ideas you are basically saying, "I support M16s costing $50,000 in 35 years".
However, I think the OP's stated method is too convoluted and grand. We need a single sentence such as "18 USC Section 922 is amended to add 18 USC Section 922 (o)(2)(C) any firearm made or registered pursuant to Title 26, United States Code, Chapter 53" or whatever verbiage best defines the new making or manufacture of machine guns via a Form 1 or 2. The primary point being Hughes could be totally undone with the addition of about 25 words to 18 USC 922. |
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Posted: 11/12/2013 5:28:16 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How about a law that says something like: A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, PERIOD. And we have a winner! |
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Posted: 11/12/2013 5:41:34 PM EDT
[#49]
Lets look at the recent past and see what happened when a "Pro Gun" group suggested a change in the NFA process... Now what was that... Oh yeah. Lets remove the CLEO signature...
We all know how that turned out. KEEP the NFA out of the lime light and we can still work with a FUBAR system. NFA keeps popping up then we all get screwed... MAHA |
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Posted: 11/12/2013 5:54:07 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No more laws thanks. Legislation doesn't grant freedom, it removes it. |
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