I'm looking for a small light recoiling pistol for my wife for concealed carry. It will be something that will be carried in her purse and she is hellbent on a semi auto. she likes the beretta tomcat/bobcat pistols and I was thinking that a bobcat in .22 would be best for her considering the little to no recoil but if she likes the .32 then that would be what she would get instead. other than beretta what other pistols out there are about the same size, weight, and reliability as these?

dose anyone hate or love these pistols and why? thanks

Really the Beretta Tomcat would not be a bad choice, if we're stuck to sub .380 guns.

The real nice thing about it is the tip up barrel design which means she does not have to rack the slide.

Another good choice would be a S&W Airweight J-frame revolver in .22lr, .22mag, .32mag or .38special.

Something like this S&W 351PD in .22mag would not be a terrible choice....



Technical Specs:

SKU: 160228
Model: 351PD
Caliber: .22MAG
Capacity: 7 Rounds
Barrel Length: 1 7/8"
Front Sight: HI-VIZ Front
Rear Sight: Fixed
Grip: Wood Grips
Frame: Small - Chiefs Special Style
Finish: Black Matte
Overall Length: 6 1/4"
Material: Aluminum Alloy
Weight Empty: 10.6 oz.

i would go .380, only because i do not think .32 or .22 is sufficient, i do have a Beretta Bobcat, i love it, but it would be a last resort kind of thing. I would look at Makarovs, Sphinx AT-380, Keltec, CZ-82/83, or a Walther. Yes you are going to get a little more recoil with bigger calibers with straight blow back, but i do not think it would be too much for her, and certainly nothing a little training couldn't fix.

Quoted: i would go .380, only because i do not think .32 or .22 is sufficient, i do have a Beretta Bobcat, i love it, but it would be a last resort kind of thing. I would look at Makarovs, Sphinx AT-380, Keltec, CZ-82/83, or a Walther. Yes you are going to get a little more recoil with bigger calibers with straight blow back, but i do not think it would be too much for her, and certainly nothing a little training couldn't fix.

I totally agree however when we looked at pistols like the sig p230 or walther ppk in 380 she decided that the extra weight  for her to carry in her purse would make it more of a burden than she would care for. also I would think that the recoil of an ultra light 380 like the keltec would be possibly too painfull to promote frequent practice. honestly I have noticed after about 100- 150 rounds of 380 in a PPK it starts to become a painful affair. I would like her to carry at least the tomcat in 32 acp but even a 22lr is better than no gun at all. beside some .22 loads have more muzzle energy than some .32 acp loads. I think it will comedown to 1. what she is most accurate with and 2. what she is most willing to carry.

I would get her a Bersa .380 handgun. Reliable, Inexpensive and Effective.

I agree with above, a Sig 230 or Walther PPK are about perfect (and damn sexy on a woman).  A bersa or Astra constable (PPK clone) if money is a little tight.  Don't have her shoot 100-150 rnds at a time if it bothers her, maybe shorten her shoots to 25-50 rnds, but focus on defensive style drills.  Emptying mags at a target doesn't really hone defensive skills as much as holster drills firing 1-2 rounds.  Or go from purse to low-ready with an empty gun, then load and practice from low ready to target/fire.  Until she's safe, then she can try it with a loaded gun for the whole sequence. It develops muscle memory, and it's fun. Just my opinion.

Recoil in the airweights in .38 can sting quite a bit, so I wouldn't go that route.

If money is no issue at all, find a Colt mustang Pocketlite.  But it'll cost ya, really light, like a mini 1911 in .380.

The .380 is going to have more recoil than you think in a blowback gun.  Having owned a PPK/S and Makarov in .380, I would recommend a small 9mm.  If you load it with 115 gr or 124 gr bullets, it'll be a very mild shooter.

Sig P232

Quoted: I would get her a Bersa .380 handgun. Reliable, Inexpensive and Effective.

Try the Bersa first. If the blowback of the Bersa is too much, Walther p22.

Quoted: I agree with above, a Sig 230 or Walther PPK are about perfect (and damn sexy on a woman).  A bersa or Astra constable (PPK clone) if money is a little tight.  Don't have her shoot 100-150 rnds at a time if it bothers her, maybe shorten her shoots to 25-50 rnds, but focus on defensive style drills.  Emptying mags at a target doesn't really hone defensive skills as much as holster drills firing 1-2 rounds.  Or go from purse to low-ready with an empty gun, then load and practice from low ready to target/fire.  Until she's safe, then she can try it with a loaded gun for the whole sequence. It develops muscle memory, and it's fun. Just my opinion. Recoil in the airweights in .38 can sting quite a bit, so I wouldn't go that route. If money is no issue at all, find a Colt mustang Pocketlite.  But it'll cost ya, really light, like a mini 1911 in .380.

I also agree with the lower number of rounds and defensive drills. I do this myself with all my 9mm's weekly. mostly because it makes the ammo last longer and I have to get the most out of my shooting to make it worth my money. I like to do 3 shot groups from verious positions and tactical reloads from the knee. how ever I was more refering to just doing a day of target practice/ familiarization. even 50 rounds starts to make my palm ache. I may look into some light weight single stack 9mm's like Kahr makes for a larger size weapon but then in lies the issue of it being more of a hassle for her and get's left at home. I think having her try more than just my own guns will give her a little more to decide on. all of my stuff is combat size. my smallest piece is my glock 19.

I checked out the pm9 it's actually not much heavier than the tomcat in 32 acp

Subcompact Glock

this is one of those delemas...main, 1st rule of a gunfight is to have a gun and know how to use it

problem now becomes, just what is "good" enough; starting w/ caliber selection, then to the firearm it self and comfort level with it, and so on

for any carry, i'd consider a .380 at least; 9mm or .38spl would be my personal prefered minimum

h/w, as the calibers get 'bigger', in general recoil becomes greater/more felt; compound that with the weight and size of the firearm and how well it recoils in each indivdual's hand and a mild shooting .380 can become a handful in those really compact autos....

so i got several questions...why is your wife intent on an auto? why on the really small size handgun (which tends to limit caliber)? moreover, smaller autos tend to be less user friendly, less reliable w/ most loads, etc? i guess what i'm asking is why your wife would prefer a pocket sized, minimal caliber auto if she has the space for something more efficient...

since she is primarily concealing it in her purse, i'd think that a larger HG can be stored in the purse; a larger framed HG tends to take recoil better, be available in more suited cailbers, and tend to be more user friendly when shooting (therefore easier to control, manipulate, and tends to be practiced with)

to fit your criteria though, i'd consider a SW J-frame (non lightweight) or Ruger SP101 sized snubnose over those really small autos, esp due to its increased reliability; if an auto is what you are looking for,  khar, keltec, the berettas, and seecamps are some to look at...

other ideas:


this topic might help: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=4&t=48588&page=1

honestly I would like to have her try out a kahr pm9 as well as some others like the sig p230 and p232 another would be the glock 26. I like the idea with the glock 26 because then she would also be familiar with my glock 19. I don't think size is as much of an issue as weight. but the kahr dosn't weigh very much and neither dose the sig. and personally I'd prefer the sig since I like their products and I like how the only safety is the heavy double action and the hammer is lowered with a downward push on the decocking lever instead of the upward movement on the ppk. also I don't believe the ppk is safe to carry with the safety off since it dosn't have a firing pin block.

my main concern with the glock is that if she carries it locked and cocked like I do in my holster but for her it's in her purse then I would be afraid of he trigger catching on something. that's why I would tend to lean tword the sig since I feel the only way to carry is locked and cocked.

Hard to beat a 38spl
my wife loves the 640

Quoted: honestly I would like to have her try out a kahr pm9 as well as some others like the sig p230 and p232 another would be the glock 26. I like the idea with the glock 26 because then she would also be familiar with my glock 19. I don't think size is as much of an issue as weight. but the kahr dosn't weigh very much and neither dose the sig. and personally I'd prefer the sig since I like their products and I like how the only safety is the heavy double action and the hammer is lowered with a downward push on the decocking lever instead of the upward movement on the ppk. also I don't believe the ppk is safe to carry with the safety off since it dosn't have a firing pin block. my main concern with the glock is that if she carries it locked and cocked like I do in my holster but for her it's in her purse then I would be afraid of he trigger catching on something. that's why I would tend to lean tword the sig since I feel the only way to carry is locked and cocked.

easily solved: i'd go for the Glock (26), since a snubnose is not really considered

get a pocket holster either sewn into the lining of the purse; if the firearm is to be placed into  a seperate pouch of the purse thats large enough to accomidate the pocket holstered glock, that could work also

another 'safeguard': you can add on a NY trigger spring to raise the trigger weight to 8lb+
you can also opt for a safety block

Quoted: Quoted: honestly I would like to have her try out a kahr pm9 as well as some others like the sig p230 and p232 another would be the glock 26. I like the idea with the glock 26 because then she would also be familiar with my glock 19. I don't think size is as much of an issue as weight. but the kahr dosn't weigh very much and neither dose the sig. and personally I'd prefer the sig since I like their products and I like how the only safety is the heavy double action and the hammer is lowered with a downward push on the decocking lever instead of the upward movement on the ppk. also I don't believe the ppk is safe to carry with the safety off since it dosn't have a firing pin block. my main concern with the glock is that if she carries it locked and cocked like I do in my holster but for her it's in her purse then I would be afraid of he trigger catching on something. that's why I would tend to lean tword the sig since I feel the only way to carry is locked and cocked. easily solved: i'd go for the Glock (26), since a snubnose is not really considered get a pocket holster either sewn into the lining of the purse; if the firearm is to be placed into  a seperate pouch of the purse thats large enough to accomidate the pocket holstered glock, that could work also another 'safeguard': you can add on a NY trigger spring to raise the trigger weight to 8lb+ you can also opt for a safety block

I actually have the NY setup for the glock I took it out of my glock 19 becasue i couldn't shoot well with it. I replaced it with a 5.5lb disconnector and a .5 lb reduction spring and it shoots great now. I guess I need to hit the range with her so she can try a bunch of stuff out and see what she likes. man this was easier when I was just looking at the tomcat in .32 lol

From numbers that I've seen, there is not much difference between a 32 and 380.  And if she is sensitive to recoil, the Tomcat's recoil is sharp enough to sting your palm even though there is not enough power to move your hand much.
I'm all for a light bullet 9mm load and there are lots of choices of good pistols.  A larger gun will be easier to shoot but if she is intent on small and light, look at a Kel-Tec P-11.  For as small and light as it is, the recoil from the wide grip is surprisingly mild.

Quoted: From numbers that I've seen, there is not much difference between a 32 and 380.  And if she is sensitive to recoil, the Tomcat's recoil is sharp enough to sting your palm even though there is not enough power to move your hand much. I'm all for a light bullet 9mm load and there are lots of choices of good pistols.  A larger gun will be easier to shoot but if she is intent on small and light, look at a Kel-Tec P-11.  For as small and light as it is, the recoil from the wide grip is surprisingly mild.

p11 is a nice looking gun and the specs and price look good too. but the trigger pull is a bit high at 9lbs don't you think?  

HK P2000SK

Quoted: Quoted: From numbers that I've seen, there is not much difference between a 32 and 380.  And if she is sensitive to recoil, the Tomcat's recoil is sharp enough to sting your palm even though there is not enough power to move your hand much. I'm all for a light bullet 9mm load and there are lots of choices of good pistols.  A larger gun will be easier to shoot but if she is intent on small and light, look at a Kel-Tec P-11.  For as small and light as it is, the recoil from the wide grip is surprisingly mild. p11 is a nice looking gun and the specs and price look good too. but the trigger pull is a bit high at 9lbs don't you think?

It is fairly heavy but it is also fairly smooth.  There are fixes to lighten the trigger but that would make it less safe to carry loaded.  I think that if does't shoot more than 50 roounds at one time, the trigger will not be too heavy.

I would buy a .38special revolver of some sort. Its easy to use and has little recoil.

cant beat a 38....look at smith and wesson lightweight or the scandium models

Mine carries a S&W 642 in her purse.  She practices with 125 standard pressure 38s and is fine for a box or so.  Of course she carries +p Gold Dots though.

Using the proper push-pull technique, recoil can really be mitigated to moot regardless of the size of the shooter (to a point of course).

I would reccomend a revolver any day over an auto for a non-gun type person.

I'd go for the Gock 19,26.You can also get mag extensions for 2 extra rounds as well as a finger grip extension.There are a great many to choose from.But for my money I'd go with the Gocks or Hkuspc in9mm or40.I've found my wife more adept at handling a 9 as opposed to a more snappy 40.I've also owned a Keltec p119mm.No complaints.But for quality and customer service,I'd go with the above mentioned.Just my own 2 cents.Good luck.Also Taurus and Baretta tip ups are a good choice especially because racking the slide is hard for some people.Also don't forget practice,practice and practice.Good luck.

Personally the smallest self defense caliber that I am comfortable to trusting my life is the 9mm/38 special and something like the Glock 19 or SIG 239 would be ideal for a small and light self defense handgun.  However a .380 is not a bad choice if you only other alternative is not carrying a handgun at all.  I like the SIG232 because of the full grip that allows me to grasp using all my fingers and distributes recoil across my entire palm.