User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 1/5/2005 8:12:01 AM EDT
[#1]
I saw one at a gun show recently for the first time as well. I am pretty intrigued with those pistols myself (have been for a while) but I haven't convinced myself to drop the money on one just yet. Regarding the armor penetrating capabilities - I am not 100% sure that the hollow point ammo (the only type available to civilians right now) will in fact penetrate body armor. You may have been saying that tongue in cheek, but I thought I'd point it out anyway. All of the people I have talked to tell me that not only is it an accurate pistol, but it is incredibly easy to shoot and follow up shots are amazingly fast. I am holding on buying one to see if the P90 is actually going to be a reality. I would rather save my pennies for one of those.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/5/2005 8:40:00 AM EDT
[#2]
I forgot, are there any reloading supplies out yet for the 5.7x28? I couldn't find any so I assume no. Is it just a really light bullet with a .224 diameter? Thanks. MJD
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/5/2005 8:52:43 AM EDT
[#3]
I saw one last night while at a range picking up a load of brass. It was the SA and ME LIKE. It is so simple and the mag capacity is sweet (20 rnds) plus you get 3 of them. The only draw back that I saw was the price, $965.00+tax
 .
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/5/2005 9:14:01 AM EDT
[#4]
KY Imports has a couple that are priced at $799.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/5/2005 9:30:28 AM EDT
[#5]
As it has been noted, it's a hefty chunk of change for one of these, that's why I've been hesitating. Plus, it's not exactly the most practical piece of hardware. I'm almost wondering whether it would be better to get an LE trade-in Sig, put some upgrades into it and spend the rest on ammo and a good pistol course. MJD
By the way, Poll added. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/5/2005 10:15:05 AM EDT
[#6]
I have one andI now carry it as my main CCW weapon. Not because of the body armor penetration capabilities but because it fits my hands perfectly, it's very light weight, powerful round (2,350 fps. @ 350 ft/lbs.), very little recoil (less than any 9mm I have tried), very fast follow-up shots, and I like having 20 rounds without a reload at my disposal. I am having a pouch made so I can carry one spare mag. Ammo at my local shop costs me $18.95 per 50 rounds. When more ammo manufacturers come out with 5.7 rounds the price will go down. Someone on these boards found SS192 ammo for $15.50 per 50 rounds. Lee makes a die set, and I am collecting my brass but I have not found loading data or bullets yet. The 5.7 round uses small rifle primers.
The Five-seveN is a good deal for me, but that's just my .02 MadDog 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/5/2005 10:31:25 AM EDT
[#7]
   BTW price is harldy an issue for me. I was at a gun show and I saw 3 different pistols, all came with 3 to 6 20 round mags and sold from $700-$800. Hell of a deal if you ask me. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/5/2005 11:08:32 AM EDT
[#8]
Where did you find this die set? I looked on Lee's website and midwayusa and found nothing. MJD |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/5/2005 11:37:42 AM EDT
[#9]
RCBS makes dies also. Winchester is produceing factory ammo. I dont know where you would get bullets yet.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/5/2005 11:54:42 AM EDT
[#10]
Heh I was gonna say get the Five seven, when I took my dad to the gun store he saw it and fell in love with it.
But then I saw the option for booze.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/5/2005 12:01:53 PM EDT
[#11]
I'd love to have one if it came in a serious caliber like .40, .45 or 10mm.
As it stands now, it's the Gyrojet of the 21st century as far as I'm concerned. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/5/2005 12:05:22 PM EDT
[#12]
Just make sure you know that the only ammo you can buy is JHP used for practice. Only LEO/Mil can buy the AP rounds. You probably won't be able to penetrate decent armor. YMMV
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/5/2005 12:21:01 PM EDT
[#13]
The only difference between the SS192 HP civillian rounds and the SS190 LEO round is the solid core. They both travel at the same fps. and have the same amount ft/lbs. For kicks a guy at our local club took two older Level II vests his department was going to trash and set them both in front of a phone book. The civillian HP round went through all four layers of the vests and came to rest in the middle of the phone book shot at about 50' out. FN says this civillian HP round will not however exit the body of a BG. Once it enters a body cavity it is designed to start tumbling and schread internals, and if it does exit it won't have much velocity and will probably travel at an odd angle.
Just what I have seen with my own eyes, MadDog 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/5/2005 3:09:59 PM EDT
[#14]
No, unless someone comes up with reliable data showing its better than a 9mm or .45.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/5/2005 4:37:04 PM EDT
[#15]
The restriction on the SS190 ammo is about as idiotic as banning a bayonet lug, the S192 (civie legal) outperforms the SS190 in just about every aspect yet the SS190 AP is restricted because it was designed to defeat armor. A guy I work with was asking me about it the other day since his dad and dad's cop buddies around Houston are throwing a fit over its ability to penetrate vests; he was shocked to find out that a CZ-52 ($100-$200 max) will do the same exact thing and has been around for years. Ill shoot my Five seveN until the ammo supply dries up, then Ill reload with the lightest .224 bullet I can find. Dies can be ordered through midwayusa and are made by RCBS if anyone is looking, they go for over $100 but would eventually pay themselves off when you consider how light of a powder charge they take and how cheap regular .223 bullets cost.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/5/2005 9:15:58 PM EDT
[#16]
It's a good gun for it's intended purpose and is pretty neat just to have if your a collector, but personally I could never pay $700 bucks for one when that money could buy a Kimber or Glock .45, plus the mags aernt cheap either. And also, I dont think I've ever seen a holster for it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2005 3:49:42 AM EDT
[#17]
44magnum -
I can get new original 20 round mags for $29.00, that's not much more than new Wilson 1911 mags. My gun came with three mags so I am only going to buy a couple more. My holster is made by Blade-Tech and cost me $59.00 The quality of the Blade-Tech is excellent and has served me well over the years for my Kimber Ultra Carry and two of my Glocks. My Five-seveN is built as well as my Glocks and functions also as well if not better. I would consider it worth the price. Just my .02 MadDog 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2005 12:53:54 PM EDT
[#18]
Everyone must remember that civilians are limited to the SS192 HP round. SS190 AP........31 grain bullet....MV (4.8" FiveseveN barrel) is 2133 fps.....ME is 313 ft-lbs. SS192 HP........28 grain bullet....MV (4.8" FiveseveN barrel) is 2034 fps.....ME is 257 ft-lbs. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2005 1:15:43 PM EDT
[#19]
The SS-192 projectile is 35 grain, that is why it travels slower than the 31 gr. SS-190. I heard this from IOM owners. EDIT: Are you sure the ME figures above are correct? The ME for the P-90 when using SS-190 is 379 ft/lbs and the P-90 is 200 fps higher than the Five-seveN. Source for P-90 ME: www.trmagonline.com/Spring2003TR/spring2003experienceswiththefnp90.htm |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2005 1:25:42 PM EDT
[#20]
Got the bullet weights from FN's own website: http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/tw_57x28system.htm Did these other IOM owners pulled some SS192 bullets and weigh them on a calibrated scale accurate down to 1 grain ? |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2005 1:38:58 PM EDT
[#21]
I read that article....their calculations are correct: From a P90, a 31 grain bullet exiting the muzzle at 2350 fps generates 379 ft-lbs. of kinetic energy. However, from the FiveseveN's shorter 4.8" barrel, the SS190 31-grain bullet exits the muzzle at around 2133 fps. Using the classic kinetic energy formula, you get only 313 ft-lbs. of muzzle energy. If the published bullet weights from FN's own website is correct, then the SS192 should have a bullet weight of 28 grains. Likewise, if their published MVs are correct, then the SS192 bullet exits the FiveseveN muzzle @ 2034 fps. Then, using the KE formula yields a ME of 257 ft-lbs. for the SS192 bullet. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2005 4:20:08 PM EDT
[#22]
Here are the two comments I found from IOM owners: I have the fiveseven IOM pistol and I'm quite enthralled with it. It fits my hand very well and is very light for a service size pistol. I chrono'd the 35 gr HP at 2150 fps, recoil is very light, muzzle report is very loud. I havn't tested for flash at night or indoors yet but I suspect that it will be quite festive. I was able to ring (well, tink anyway) 1 foot gongs at 200-300 yards with hardly any holdover. It's incredibly accurate, group sizes are limited only by the operator's ability. Sub 1" groups are possible when you're in a stable position. The safety takes a little getting used to but it's nothing I'd call a design flaw. I tested the HP on some retired armor panels and found it easily punched level II panels, and the occasional IIIA at point blank range. My penetration results might be exaggerated due to the age of the material involved, but I'm doing this on the cheap, cant afford to destroy a brand new vest. I'll be doing some testing on how far it gets on wet phone books after penetrating an armor panel as well. It's not ballistic gelatin but it's better than nothing. I'd like to see a good dedicated holster made for it, as well as more sources of ammunition. Even some reloading dies would be great but I havnt seen any for a realistic price yet. -------------------------------------------------------- SS192 is a lead core (instead of 4 types of ammo like in the early propaganda, there is 5) SS192 is several grains heavier than SS190 AP which is why its approx 100fps slower out of a 57(2036 VS 2150 for the SS190AP) If the velocity of 2,050 fps is correct (and indeed it is, according to chronograph figures I've heard), the bullet must be heavier. If the weight of the bullet was reduced from 31 grains, you wouldn't lose velocity. It would be the opposite. I'm therefore assuming the weight numbers on FN's website are what the SS-192 formerly weighed. I believe FN upped the weight on the SS-192 projectile as they did with the SS-190, which was formerly 23 grains. I can dig up the sources for the quotes if you want them. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2005 4:20:13 PM EDT
[#23]
Now you have... 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2005 4:22:30 PM EDT
[#24]
If I had a scale handy Id pull one and measure; maybe someone who has current access to a powder scale can do it and post a pic. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2005 4:46:00 PM EDT
[#25]
Yes, I would like to see the source for the quotes. Interested in where the IOM owner got his bullet weights from. Did he get his info from a reputable source (FN ?) or did he weigh some SS192 bullets ? I also noticed the discrepancy in the bullet weight/velocity comparison. Assuming identical barrel lengths and powder load, a lighter bullet would normally exit the muzzle faster than a heavier bullet. However, I've came across a couple references on the internet which suggested that the SS192 round was designed as the official "training" round. The "training" round would be used by LEOs during shooting practice where they want to minimize backstop damage. In addition to the HP bullet design, it is possible that the SS192 is also loaded "milder" than the standard SS190 round. This combination would minimize backstop damage. The "milder" load behind the lighter SS192 projectile could explain the lower muzzle velocity as compared to the heavier SS190 bullet. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2005 4:53:25 PM EDT
[#26]
Blade-tech holster? |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2005 6:41:53 PM EDT
[#27]
At the moment I cannot find the source for the first quote. Here is the source for the second one and I will keep looking for the first:
www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2304&page=1&pp=25 On page 4 you will find the information. Here is the full quotation: The early so called practice ammo did contain aluminum....SS192 is a lead core (instead of 4 types of ammo like in the early propaganda, there is 5) SS192 is several grains heavier than SS190 AP which is why its approx 100fps slower out of a 57(2036 VS 2150 for the SS190AP) If you check on the fourth page, I had asked him if he knew the actual weight but I never got a reply. You could ask him about it via IM at AKFiles.com or TheFiringLine.com if you are interested; he is a member at both, but I believe his user name at TFL is p99Guy. If you get a response about where he got it and what the exact weight is, be sure to post it here, as I would like to know. Yes, I have heard the talk of it being a 'training' round, and I believe the training designation is the early/prototype version I was talking about. Note that FN's page lists it as having a green tip, but none of the SS192 I've seen have any coloring on the tip. If an IOM owner here could get the exact weight none of this would matter. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2005 7:06:21 PM EDT
[#28]
Thanks for the source. I read the thread. Mr. Lewis never did mention exactly how heavy the SS192 projectile is. He states it is a few grains heavier than the SS190 bullet. It could be true but then again it might not. You're right in that if there is an IOM/USG owner out there with a powder scale, please pull the SS192 bullet and weigh it.
In fact, if there's a member who reloads out there who's willing to pull the SS192 bullet from a live cartridge and weigh it on their powder scale, I'll be willing to donate the cartridge. I wonder if its legal to mail out a cartridge via the USPS ? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2005 7:33:23 PM EDT
[#29]
I dont think they mind as long as you specify ground mail only. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2005 7:34:05 PM EDT
[#30]
C. Rusty Sherrick, thats $100 worth of dead horse. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/6/2005 7:53:56 PM EDT
[#31]
I have an IOM Five seveN. It is very accurate with almost no recoil, which allows for rapid follow up shots. Extremely reliable with flawless feeding. Mine came with three 10rnders, however, I was able to pick up five 20rnders from this forum. Ammo is .35 cents per round, not as cheap as 9mm white box or aluminum cased blazer, but not even half as much as .50ae.
Should you buy it? Sure, why not. If for no other reason, because you can. It is a tool. As mentioned before, a CZ52 has similar characteristics and ability, but is also 50 years old technology without a modern mag or slide release and with a cheesy firing pin. The Five seveN was designed to be a pistol that defeats body armor. It is a success at that, regardless of whether you shoot the civilian hollow points, or the law enforcement armor piercing rounds. Both travel at more than 2000 fps and have no problem going through level 2 and then some. It is ergonomic, light, and does what it is supposed to do well. Would I like to own the Five seveN as my only pistol? The answer is no. I like a .45acp with 13+1 (for a fullsize) or a 9mm with 10+1 (for a subcompact). Go to Reed's Ammo for the .35 cents a round ammo. Try CDNN for the pistol - I paid about $700. Here are pics of my two "vestbusters":  
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2005 12:37:17 PM EDT
[#32]
Roentgen -
I don't have a digital camera but as soon as I get some more 35mm film, I will take pictures of my Blade-Tech Kydex holster ($59.00) have the pictures developed and post them. I just picked up a single mag pouch today at my local shop. It's black leather and originally made for a Desert Eagle 44 magazine (fits like a glove). I would have gone with Kydex but Blade-Tech doesn't make a mag pouch for the Five-seveN even though they make holsters for them. MadDog 
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
