Guys,

Regarding my G19:

Forgive the question, but I had a pistol instructor tell me not to use the slide stop lever to send the slide forward after a mag change. Instead, he said I should rack the slide with my left hand.

Thoughts?

I always sling shot the slide to put the pistol into battery. In every pistol I fire.

That's his opinion. I personally use it. under stress its what I naturally do, and it works. Honestly I do both methods, but your not wrong if you use it. Support hand racking is a gross motor function, thats why he wants you to use it, because when your heart rate rises (under stress) your complex motor skills diminish. I never have a problem with using the slide stop lever though.

Listen to your instructor.  The Glock is not designed to use the slide lock lever to slam the slide home.  It's too small and wet/bloody fingers could slide off to easily.

I too use the lever, mine is extended though. I never thought of it but what if your other hand is tied up doing something else or hurt? Wouldn't hurt to practice both.

It depends, I go about half and half.

Sometimes I use the release, other times (gloves, wet, etc.) I grab the slide.  When shooting left-handed, I usually grab the slide also.

ETA:  sometimes, I don't have to do either.  You guys know what I'm talkin about!  Gotta love Glocks.

Even though I have the extended slide stop lever, I never you it. I prefer to use my left hand to pull the slide back then release.

That's interesting.

Witch!   please explain.

with some glocks, not all, you can smack the mag in just right and it'll make the slide drop closed. my 17 and 22 do it but my 36 doesn't and my 27 didn't either. its great when it happens cause its ultra fast, however don't depend on it cause its unintentional and doesn't happen 100% of the time.

Yep!!  My 19 goes into battery every time I do a reload.  Can't beat that –– I don't know if Glock engineered it that way, or if it's just a side effect, but it kind of eliminates the whole debate, at least for that gun.

I basically always use the sling-shot method otherwise –– it's how I was trained.

If you take a Glock course, they will tell you the lever was never designed to be used to release the slide.  A friend of mine was in a Glock instructor's course and another shooter was using the lever.  The Glock instructor told him not to because it will eventually break the tiny wire Glock uses for a spring.  He didn't listen.  The next day, the rep was replacing the lever due to a broken spring.  Talk about perfect timing!

The student started slingshotting the slide, like it should be done with any pistol anyway.

I took the Glock course years ago, and I think I heard something along the same line.  We were taught to rip the slide back (I suppose it's the same thing as slingshot) after inserting a fresh mag.  I only use the slide stop to manually lock the slide back when necessary, but I don't use it to release it.  



 

I trained at Blackwater and Valhalla. Both teach the "over hand" technique. Never use the slide catch because it is not located on the same spot on different pistols. Train using the over hand and muscle memory will help you run any pistol more efficiently. Consistency is efficiency.

Also using the slide stop lever will slowly round it and the sharp edge it contacts on the slide. Before I got formal training I used the slide stop lever on my Sig 229 and after a couple thousand reloads my slide would not lock back any longer. It was because the mating edges rounded off and it ruined the slide. Sig could not machine the notch because it removed to much steel. I had to buy a new slide since I wanted my pistol to lock back and function properly. In short, don't use it to slam home a round. It's  designed to function as a slide stop not a release and it's not considered proper to train using it as a release.

Good point –– never thought of that one.

I seem to recall the slingshot technique being taught at Blackwater when I went.  They may teach differently based on which classes they're teaching.  "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."

I haven't used the slide stop to release the slide on a Glock in years. I slingshot every time; it's ingrained in my now.

IMO, there is a lot of either incorrect, misleading or incomplete information posted in this thread

That is only partly true. If your Glock has the standard factory slide lock lever (which is flat) then yes, it was not designed to be used as a slide release. Glock also sells a slide release lever which replaces the standard slide lock (and comes standard on the G34\35 models) and it is in fact designed to be used as a slide release lever. I have that part installed on all my Glocks and find its size and function perfect. I have no problems using it with wet\sweaty hands to release the slide but it's still small enough to work well for IWB CCW.

That use to be what almost all instructors taught but lately a lot of trainers have been teaching both techniques and some even recommend using the slide release over the sling shot method. The main reason being, you may not always have 2 hands to over hand the slide with and the whole, hook the rear sight to your belt is problematic at best. Also from an efficiency in motion perspective, the slide release method is superior.

And I would say who cares? I do not train on multiple platforms nor do I see any reason too as I feel it’s counter productive. Don’t get me wrong, I do see the benefit in being familiar with different platforms but from a muscle memory perspective, I only worry about the platform I use.

That is highly debatable if not flat out wrong. From an efficiency POV, using the slide release involves much less movement then the overhand technique so hence it is more efficient. I bet there are very few people (if anybody?) that can over hand a release quicker then I or anybody else can use the slide release.

This is one of those times I wish we were all FTF so I could demonstrate what I’m talking about but I can say without a doubt that using the slide release is a much quicker and more fluid action then over handing.

This is very misleading IMO. This may be an issue with the Sigs and may not be the way Sigs are designed to be used but that is not true for all pistols. In short, you need to know how your pistol was designed to be used, understand the pros and cons of both methods and proceed from there. Even then, I do think it would be wise to become familiar and at least some what proficient with both methods. I am because IMO, no matter which one you do most, you never know when the other one might just save your life.

no matter what the platform i do not use the slide lock/ release unless i am locking the slide back after dropping the magazine to clear the weapon to clean do dry fire etc.

the logic is that in a dynamic critical incident you will loose fine motor skills, and hitting the slide lock is considered a fine motor skill/ function, therefore you should use gross motor skills ie manually releasing the slide with your hand when you train so when you are in that sittuation you will revert back to the training that you have mastered.

there are lots of people that use the slide release and it works for them, i choose not to use it.

My 92FS is the same way.  Honestly, haven't tried it on my G19 or G30 but will next time I'm out.  

With my two, I mix it up.  Having that little release can make it a pita sometimes, especially on my G30.  I wish it had come with the extended slide release from the factory.

Activating a slide release is no more of a fine motor skill then doing a mag change or activating the mag release or bolt release on a rifle. Do you really think that properly trigger manipulation is not a fine motor skill? Either way, you actually debunked the first part of your argument with the last part. As you say, when the heat is on, you will default to your training. If you trained using the slide release, you will have no problems using when it counts.

Take it as you will. I stated all the above based on training I revieved from some of the best instructors in the country as late as last month (August). These guys train SEAL teams and know what they are doing. I'll keep training off what they taught me. You can do can train how ever you like.

Skag,

What benefits do they claim the overhand has over the slingshot? Just curious.

They say it is a basic function(over hand) that is much easy to perform during a critical incident then trying to hit a small lever. They also stress to train consistently using the over hand method because it applies to all semi-autos and enables you to run any gun consistently under stress.

I reread you post. I though you meant over hand vs. slide lock lever......using the over hand method is faster then the slingshot in a high compressed ready position. You don't have to change the position of your strong had to grab the slide serrations. You can keep on target, reload and over hand the slide and fire. Read Rob Pincus' book on Combat Focus, it has a ton of good info in it. I wish I knew how to post a video and I could show you what I mean. It's kind of hard to describe as I'm not good with words. I'll see if I can find a video link some where.

I've attended TDI twice. They teach slingshot as opposed to overhand. I previously used overhand exclusively. At this point, I can't say that I remember all of the benefits they profess that the slingshot has over the overhand.

I think their main concern is that if your hand/fingers get in the way of the ejection port (using overhand) during a double feed malfuction drill, you may not end up clearing your weapon as the shell case may wind up back inside the ejection port. Their main goal is for you to manipulate the weapon the same way for your tap/rack/assess drill and your reload drill as you do for the double feed drill. This ends up with you using slingshot for all three drills as opposed to the overhand method.

I've considered going back to overhand, but it would be tough at this point after all the practice/training I've done with slingshot. I've noticed that you have a little more strength using the overhand method. When inserting a tight, full mag with the slide in battery (as opposed to locked back) it can be a bit tougher to rack the slide using the slingshot method than the overhand method.

Do  you by any chance have a video of how you use the slingshot method? I'd like to see in in action as it's hard to picture it properly?

I never use it for reloading. Slingshot only.

Marine corps taught me that....... With a beretta M9 to boot.....

Lets look at it another way.....It is raining and it is dark..... How do I get the slide to go home? Do I look at the pistol? Feel around for the Slide stop and thumb it? NOOOOOO ! I grab the big ass slide and pull to the rear and let go.

I installed the Extended version and I always use it.



Unless your Instructor gave you the pros & cons of the different methods to use and why you should or should not use one over the other, I would say he was not a very good instructor.



 

Here we go again!  This internet BS has been around for forever.  The fact is that the Glock Slide Stop Lever was designed for use in dropping the slide (Glock's name for the slide lock lever). If it were not to be used, then why would they install an extended version on their practical pistol models; both the G34 and G35?



It is but one of the ways to drop the slide on a Glock.  The slide lock lever is located in reach of your right thumb and can be engaged without any movement of the pistol off target.  It doesn't require as radical manipulation of the pistol as rotating it to grab the slide to slingshot it with your left hand.



While I've not used my Glocks in combat, I have used a 1911 in combat in Viet Nam and I found that the  slide lock lever was vastly superior to the slingshot method for me.  It boils down to personal preference.  Slingshot or Slide Stop Lock lever; it's your choice and don't let a bunch of armchair commando tell you differently.



 

That said, I use the 'slap-the-magazine-in-firmly-so-it-drops-the-slide' method myself.  I've worked the Slide Stop Levers on all of my Glocks so that slapping in the magazine firmly drops the slide most of the time.  If it doesn't, then I use my thumb to drop it.

Neither is the trigger, safety or magazine release. There are good reasons not to use it, but that isn't one of them.



 

But the top of the slide is always there for an over hand method.

Not sure if I'm linking this correctly, I've never done it before. Watch the reload that Bowie does at 1:01 through 1:06 on the video. This is the slingshot as they teach it. The left hand thumb is on the right side of the slide and the left hand index finger on the right. With the overhand (as I call it) the left hand fingers are on the right side of the slide and the left hand palm is on the left side of the slide.

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Edit: Okay, that doesn't work. Watch video 3/3 talking about a demo of Bowie's weapons more than halfway down this page. At 1:01.

That is a reason to use overhand, not a reason to not use Slide lever.



Besides, slide is NOT always there - example if you have an rail/optic or something else on it.



The lesson here is there is no one correct way to do it. The important thing to know is the different methods and the pros & cons of each and use the one that works for you.





 

I fully agree.

That looks as efficent as the over hand. The only problem I see if they are concerned with using the over hand and you have a double feed or stuck shell your hand might block the ejection port. This sling shot technique has the port facing up and gravity may cause the same problems.

Very true. I may have to give the old overhand a try next time I'm doing some practice and see how it feels again.

Lets not turn this into a pissing match shall we? My responses were not meant in that way and I apologize if they came off that way.

I’ve read and heard all of the arguments for the over hand technique and I am not saying there is anything wrong with it and I can see why some feel it’s the "best" but I felt the need to express the other side of the story. You basically stated that “all” trainers recommend the overhand technique but in my experience, that is not true. A lot of them do. Most of them? Maybe but certainly not all.

When it comes to gunfighting techniques, there is never only one right solution. That’s why we talk about this stuff and go to training; to learn new ways of doing things and the pro and cons of those options so that we can make a logically decision as to which technique is best for us. I am not a Navy Seal or any other type of combat solider and factors that may be relevant to them may or may not be relevant to me. Having learned the pros and cons to the 3 methods discussed here and having tried them all myself, I am very comfortable with the slide release method on the weapons I use. YMMV?

That is cool. I did not mean to sound like it was the only way and everyone teaches it. I see where you and others are coming from and I see your points. What works for you and keeps you alive is the best technique to use. For a novis just starting out, what techniques he uses is debatable....what is the best to lean by?

i only use it for type III/IV malf and for clearing/admin/cleaning

i over hand for all reloads and manipulations

No problem. I think we all know the Internet is not the best comm device sometimes!

Good question and one I don't really have an answer for? I will say one of the things I like about the guy I trained with was, when talking about different techniques, he never really "declared" a best option. He usually would discuss and demonstrate all of the methods he was aware of along with the pros and cons of each (as he knew them anyway) and then would explain which one he used and why? Then he would usually have the class try all of the methods (if time permitted) and then let us decide for ourselves which was right for us? I realize that not all guns have slide releases that are practical for quick slide releases under pressure. Not all people have the hand strength for the slingshot method. Some people find the overhand method unnatural and slow, especially at first.

One problem I do see with this conversation is I think we're all being a little too narrow focused here. We are all strictly focused on releasing the slide on a loaded mag in a properly functioning weapon as you would for a "run dry" mag reload drill. What if you have a malfunction? If your slide release it to small or hard to operate under stress to release the slide, how are you going to use it lock the slide open to clear the jam? OK now assuming you got that far, how are you going to rack the slide? You are going to have to use either the over hand or sling shot method now and that right there may be the best reason why you should always use the overhand or the sling shot method, so that you can have continuity of movements. Not a bad argument but my take on it is this, why be a one trick pony? Why not learn to be proficient with all 3 methods as they all have their merits. I typically use the slide release or overhand technique but can slingshot too if need be too. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to work for me.

Train with all the methods but do whatever works best for you.  FTMFW  Been in plenty of fire fights (mainly with M4) and sometimes shit fuckin happens.  I say train using any and all methods.  God forbid should you get injured and not be able to perform your SOP for pistol reloads.  BTW  I mainly use the overhand method.

Where do I start,  maybe by letting Gaston Glock know he's wrong.  Secondly Glock's have a slide lock, not a slide release.  The 1911's slide stop was designed to be used to release the slide like the one you used in combat in Viet Nam.  

 I do admit, the G34 and G35 levers are designed to act as a release at the request of competition shooters, but the original ones were not intended to be used the way you say.  Before you start picking apart a post, you should do your home work, otherwise you may continue to look silly.

I personally don't care what the "slide thingy" was designed for, that's what I use. Always. Probably. Mebbe.  I guess It's just the way I have grown up, been "taught"...

Personally, I always overhand. It is much faster for ME. Four fingers and hand provide more clamping force than slingshot method. As I insert a magazine, my hand is already moving in the right direction for the overhand.  I don't see any up side to inserting with weak hand, then removing weak hand, breaking grip with strong hand, disengaging slide stop, then regripping.  I guess you could hit the release with weak hand, but my grip involves not touching the slide lock (see below: caused me to lock open a time or two)

I DO have the extended slide lock/release for single hand reloading, although I can do it without it. The extended lever also is easier to use to lock open. I have had occasions where my grip conflicted and caused a slide lock on first round though. I trained around it.

My G17 slide releases every time I insert a loaded mag.   It's faster for me to do it this way but if I'm in a self defense situation and 18 rounds aren't enough.........I'd be better off running.

Or relading and shooting more!  Never give up the fight!

Gotta figure everyone posting so far is right handed.  Well guess what, stock, the slide release is absolutely usless to us southpaws.  Now it may be possible to fit an ambidextorous release, never looked into it myself.  But, The slingshot method works very well for lefties.  That said, the slide release is about the only thing that isn't lefty friendly on glocks.   Even the mag release is pretty easy to manipulate.

Did the slide stop leaver come on the gun? Then it was designed to be used on the gun.

Falure to use it only causes a slower reload.

It's called the slide stop not slide release.

+1

Hey, I got one for you too... Guess what? Nobody gives a fuck about you friggen lefties!. You wrong handed bastards deserve to loose any gun fight you might find yourselves in so that you can all go to hell where you all belong!

On a Glock? Not that I've ever seen.

That was pretty much my point... everybody needs to find what works for them. All 3 methods can be effective if done right and any of the 3 can become second nature if practiced enough. Find what works for you and practice the shit out of it and you should be GTG