Ok bear with me while I get this thread worked on.  See below, still working on it as of 2/26/10.

I am no legal expert but have SBR'd a Draco and thought this info may help first time NFA applicant's, specifically Draco owners looking to go that route.  ALWAYS CHECK YOUR CURRENT LOCAL, STATE, and FEDERAL LAWS to stay in compliance.  Luckily I'm in OK so things are a lot easier for us here to get through NFA, at least for now.

If you guys have more info feel free to add  

Some great links for the time being:

General SBR FAQ thread

Completing a Form 1

ATF Form 1 PDF

Certification of Compliance - "Citizenship Form"

ATF Fingerprint Cards
The card you are looking for is listed all the way down on the right column.  It is listed as "FBI FD-258LE - NFA, Imports ORI WVATF0800".  Follow the instructions to order and submit.  I have found that the ATF is very prompt in getting the materials to you.  If you like you can also order the above listed forms to be filled out in pen instead of printed out.

ATF NFA Owners Handbook

What is the Definition of a Short Barreled Rifle:

A short barreled rifle is defined in the US Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter, Sec. 921. as follows...
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(8) The term ''short-barreled rifle'' means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

Vertical Foregrips:

I've seen it asked in another thread so I'll answer it here also. Since a factory Draco is a pistol adding a foregrip of any kind is illegal as it throws it into a AOW (Any Other Weapon) configuration.  As cited from the 2009 version of NFA Owners handbook (pg 9):

"However, certain alterations to a pistol or revolver, such as the addition of a second vertical handgrip, create a weapon that no longer meets the definition of pistol or revolver.  A pistol or revolver modified as described is an “any other weapon” subject to the NFA because the weapon is not designed to be fired when held in one hand."

As I understand it a SOT can manafactuer and register an AOW and then transfer it to the buyer through a transfer via Form 4 for a $5 transfer tax (NFA Handbook section 4.1.2).  However if you manafactuer a AOW via Form 1 as an individual, then stamp is $200.  Some choose to go this route as some states do not allow SBR's but allow AOW's.  Bottom line is DO NOT ADD A FOREGRIP TO A DRACO PISTOL UNLESS PROPER TAXES ARE PAID.

Got my project done finally, had a ton of other stuff pop up.

Specs here

Very nice, I look forward to seeing your thread completed.

More topics I think you should add to the FAQ:

1.LEO signoff vs. Trust
2.How to go the Trust route
3.How to fill out 5320.20
4.Link to which states allow SBR
5.And then some particulars like once converted to an SBR, always an SBR; engraving ins and outs, who can shoot your NFA weapons, etc.

Or maybe much of this is covered in the 31 page post on SBRs.  I dunno, I was thinking of commonly asked questions.

Yeah I was going to briefly hit on some of those but really the main pages cover it quite well.  Going to pop in info for the Form 1 here shortly specific to the Draco such as length and such.  Good call.

I will IM GoatBoy to get this tacked.

Great work OP. Anymore info your going to add

Yeah sorry, was on vacation, then blasted at work the week I got back, and then caught the flu this week.  Not a good couple weeks after vacation.  Going to try to get some more info posted here real soon, nothing fancy but maybe a scanned Form 1 as an example and such.  

If you guys have ideas post them up.  Guys that have SBR's post up anything you want related to the process also.  I'm trying not to duplicate the great threads in the Armory section so much as point in the direction or help first time guys out.  When I looked there wasn't a whole lot of info out there specific to SBRing the Draco so I thought this might be a good place to tie it all together.

Stock options for the Draco SBR:

VZ58:


ACE- Metal/Aluminum:



Tromix.  Polymer? (Middle and lower in pic) :


DPH Arms- Solid Billet:



Bulgarian Triangle Stock:

Outside of the Bulgi, the VZ58 is the "right" looking folding stock for the Draco, IMHO

And easier to install than the Bulgi. AND much, much cheaper.

The VZ58 is a rock solid folder. When I look at folding stocks for AK, AR, whatever. I like to think to myself, "would I / can I it hit someone with this without fear of breaking it?" I would have zero issue using the VZ58 stock as a teeth hammer. The long part of the stock is in a "I" beam shape, very strong.

You are correct on that stomp, the VZ-58 folder is IMO the best fit for a side folder you can put on a Draco. The feel and comfort is there right along with functionality, the only thing the VZ stock could benefit from is a para cord job on the beam to create a little bit of a softer space to lay your cheek.

I agree. The para cord also looks cool, and if you find para cord in the same color as ones tacticool fore end rail system and grip...... GOLDEN!

Got a VZ-2008. That folder stock is really well built. The only thing is the large mounting screw needs loktite to keep it solid. The paracord is something I think I would like to do. You can get the folder stock at czechpointcom in the parts section. I also have an issue with the stock whacking the side of the reciever. They fix I found is a can of black Plasti dip spray. Just mask off the area that you don't want coated and you have a nice rubberized butt stock that will bounce off the reciever when you close it....nice. You can get it at Hom Depot for seven bucks.

I was leaning towards an ACE folder, and while I still feel it's the one U.S. folder that looks "right" on an AK/AKSU of any stripe, all these positives of the VZ58 folder have me curious.

Does anyone have pics of what the tapped hole and slot in the rear trunnion face look like? How comparable of a DIY job is it as compared to the two tapped screw holes for the ACE?

The only thing that has to be done is getting yourself an 11mm drill bit and drill a hole straight through the trunnion. Next use a 12x1.00 tap to do your threads. But before you do all this you need to find out how your going to get the index notch cut our of your trunnion, you can either mill a notch our which is the best way or you can cut a notch out at the top which does not look nearly as clean.

Once you do this some loctite is needed and if you do mill a slot out for the index notch when the stock is folded it will not touch the side of the receiver and won't affect the function of the safety either.

What about a Romanian underfolder stock? How hard of a project would that be?

Larry

My understanding is that the rear trunnion on a Draco is the right kind for an underfolder, which will save you some work, but you'll still have to cut the holes out of the actual sheet metal receiver sides.

Just ordered a VZ58  folder for mine from Czeckpoint arms 63.00 bucks with shipping complete... Vz folder looks clean and the install looks very simple.

If someone can show me what the tapped hole and the milled slot looks like, I still really want to see.

Well I looked at a VZ 58 rifle with the folder and it is really simple The stock end plate has a small raised tab that needs a relief cut in the rear of your reciever could be done with a small drill bit and a dremel. after that drill and tap a hole  for the LARGE screw or you could have a friend just run a quick weld on it to be extra sure. I may have the weld done...

Okay. I'd like a pic of a cut rear trunnion/receiver, or just the mating face of the stock.

But if a few carefully drilled holes and some careful work with needle files or a Dremel can produce the slot correctly, that does not sound too bad.

stock should ship this week and I'll get on it I have the 2 inch barrel extension in hand will be blind pinning that and brake on this week will work on the stock this weekend i'll get some before and after pics....I think with proper care this could work and be nice.
.

BBT on the way with stock will have a template cut out to glue on back of reciever tomorrow before cutting/drilling.

since finding a friggin 12x1.00 metric tap is HARD I will also be checking to see what other options there are locally for a screw,bolt ...

That's kind of pushing me back towards the ACE then...

I started out wanting a triangle folder, but I've decided on the ACE too..  Cheaper to buy, cheaper to build, and prob a more comfortable shooter in 762x39...

Ok milled the slot with a dremel and a grinding stone that was the easy part found that a 10mm coarse thread Allen screw fits in the stock hole  with some filing of the Allen head I used a 10.3mm drill as the last hole start small the steel is hard  once hole is drilled I used a locking nut  and red lock tite. I don't think I will scr3w with tapping the hole this is rock solid will post my pics tomorrow I. Had a friend help setting up the pilot hole

Ok here is my try with pics I also added a VLTOR emod rear pad minus the glass breaker. it is epoxed on and I will be using a black silicone to dress the edges where the epoxy is not uniform.


look close you can see the lock nut in receiver



unfolded



folded



placement

wtf why don't they post ARRRGGH\

pics here.
http://s766.photobucket.com/home/swatbwana/allalbums

Here... In photobucket you need to hover over the thumbnail and the links will pop out for you. You want the last one that says "IMG Code" that makes the [ IMG ] url&filename [ /IMG] tags that work here in the bulletin board. I'm not sure if I grabbed the right pics you wanted though.

thanks bro have to find the macro setting but yes ... the fastener I used was a grade 8, 10 mm hex head plenty strong I really like the butplate addition and the stock does not foul the safety lever when folded..

The trunion steel is HARD and about 5/8 thick where you drill  so measure check and re measure, II covered everything in red locktite so it is not moving the dremeled slot is also full so not that the stock is indexed and torqued "bwana" tite it will not move.. overall this is an awesome stock ZERO play lightweight and strong.


Overall I   will shoot the crap out of it and decide if it's worth the 200 to sbr when I get my AR form back.... I can cut off that crappy 2 inch barrel extension and ak74 brake and go with a short Krink brake and I'm done...

Also thats a Brownells teflon Molycoat Coyote oven job and it really looks nice up close.

How did you wind up doing the extension? Blind pin?

Blind pin and spot weld over both extension and brake.. the extenstion steel is SOFT.

Looks really great and the SBR version will be even better once you get your paper work back.

Nice, permanent enough for the BATF, but you can hack on the extension steel when you go SBR.

Well last night I spent 2 hours sanding and filing the bolt carrier so it had no scraping on anything whether it be top cover, gas tube etc. and ran 300 rounds through it today very smooth cycling now still shoots little right soo I have to drift the front a tad... Prior to my smothing up the Bolt carrier was scraping the top cover and gas tube in a few areas now it just glides like it's on a cushion of air...Sweet.also that stock is awesome had  afriend just back from A'stan he wanted to use it for work he said the ones they see are so ratty it's amazing they hit anything...but they do.

Looking at doing this as my first SBR, but have a couple of questions.

Will the standard side optics mount work on the Draco or other ak-pistols?

How well/accurate do these things shoot?

I'm not really looking for outstanding accuracy, just able to hit a hog-sized object at maybe 50-75 yards on the outside. As an SBR, will it be able to do that?

The Draco does not have the side optics mount on it. However, you could add one if you wished. They sell them for non-railed AK's.

And they seem to be pretty accurate. It's possible the short barrel has less flex and whip when firing than full-length barrels do. I think with some kind of optic, magnified or not, and a stock because it's been SBR'ed, it should be able to do minute-of-hog's-vitals at 75 yards all day long, even with milsurp or Wolf ammo.

I know I can hit a 10"x10" steel plate at 30 yards and that was without a butt stock or ever touching the sights.  I still have not touched the sights and out to 25 I can hit soda bottles and paper plates.  One of these days I'll have to actually put her on paper to see how she does.

I bought a red dot for mine and mounted it to the top rail of my ATI hand guard. Sighted it in with my laser 7.62 cartridge but have not been back to see how it shoots. Using the iron sights on the last test fire, I was hitting the target frequently at 25 yards. My son and I will be constructing a 100M range at his place this Summer. My job is to build the shooting benches and target stands.

Because I don't really understand the legalese in the NFA laws I have one more question:

For and SBR, can I put the "Romy-G" hand guard on a SBR AK pistol?

Yes, the vertical fore-grip only applies to handguns making them an AOW. Once it's an SBR, you can put a VFG on it like any other rifle.

I put a Harris bipod on my Draco just to see what it would do at the range. With my 60 yr old eyes, I was doing 2 inch groups at 50 yds from prone. I'd really like to do the SBR on mine vs putting a dedicated can on, then the stock. BTW, with the bipod mounted ya got something to hold onto if ya wanna play Rambo.

                                                                                                             Cheers, A

This looks like fun!  I'll play...


Draco with ACE folder, Midwest rail, TG "stubby" vert grip, Eotech 512, AK74-type brake, Tapco SAW grip, Brownell's camo spray paint.  I call it the "M4ski"!

Sharp!!

Add this to the growing list of SBR'd Dracos.  Just got the stamp yesterday afternoon.

Draco, Modified Full-size Ultimak, Aimpoint Micro, Vltor QD Light Mount with Surefire G2L, K-Var Furniture, OSOE Two-point Sling, VZ-58 Folder

Anyone got pictures of the Yugo underfolder married to a draco?

so can you add a forward grip to an SBR sence its no longer a pistol?

thats funny the M4ski!