Hi all,

We're considering making the following item available to the public and want your thoughts on it. This is a prototype and runs flawlessly. Kalashnikov himself has seen it and thought it was absolutely ingenious. We tend to agree.

This is an AK47 in 9mm, yes standard 9mm.

If you could have one, how would you like it set up?

As a Title 1 pistol?
As an NFA SBR?
As a rifle with 16+ inch barrel?
Side folder, underfolder, fixed stock?
Short PDW length gun as shown or longer fullsize gun, or both?

Or maybe you just hate the idea altogether.

Let us know your thoughts!

Drew
FFL/SOT
Heavy Metal Armory
www.MachineGun.com

http://www.machinegun.com/ads/9mmak.jpg

It would be a nice little pistol cal carbine SBR, but Im sure many people would buy it and use it like an mp5k and shoulder strap too.  Depending on the magazine reliability and price it might be a nice alternative to the 9mm AR as a full length rifle.

As a rifle with 16+ inch barrel?
yep

Side folder, underfolder, fixed stock?
this also

Good idea.

make some Pistol versions with no front grip, so that people can buy it w/ the short barrel.  Also having it in 7.62x25mm would rock the casbah.

SBR, same as in pic only with a folder, and where do I send a check?

Looks like a 9mm Krink AOW.  Interesting and innovative with it's MP5K-like style, but despite my living in an Class 3 state, I would definately pass on it chambered in a pistol caliber. Since I have to go semi-auto, a Glock-17 with 31-round mag just makes more sense to me. However, if it were chambered in 5.45 or 5.56, I would be very interested. I've actually been considering a Krink AOW pistol with mini quad rail. But keep up with the innovative ideas...!!!  

What does it do that the UZI, MAC, Glock 34 w/33 round mag, AR15/9mm, Calico, AT9, TEC, MP5, etc don't?

Give us a Bizon.  We'll (I'll) do all sorts of self deprecating, humiliating, embarassing, degrading things for you that I won't talk about here.

Interesting

I want the one in the picture, with the later possiblity of a stock.

What kind of mags does it use?  I love it in any form.

I would like in the configuration that doesn't cost $1200, like so many others.

The reason it doesn't look cobbled together from a mishmash of parts is that it isn't, this is all purpose built from the ground up.

SBR and I'll take a drive to pay you in cash.

Honest question................ Have you had a chance yet to fire a Bizon? You may possibly note some SERIOUS similarities between the Bizon and this particular gun..............but obviously no helical magazine.

Drew,
    I will take an SBR version with a krink side folding stock.  I need it to fit one of the Gemtech trinity mounts.  Let me know when and if they will be available.  Mark in Tampa.

Here's is one of the most innovative builds I hane ever seen.

www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?t=312162

I would be really impressed if you could make something like this. I wouldn't expect the barrels to change out but it would be really neat if you made a model in each caliber.

I would like one in a fixed stock to keep cost down and 16 inch barrel.
ETA I don't think you can see unless you are a member.
ETA I just figured out how to post pics and these are stolen.

Wow.....that looks really nice, whatever it is.  Is it a 9mm?  Who made it?

SBR with a fixed stock and a 16" version with sidefolder.

Not mine (I WISH)
I provided a link but you need to be a member to view.
It is a home build one of a kind from a very skilled man.

Quote:
my ol buddy steve in el paso "cntrailrider" sent me a uzi trunion and barrel nut.wanted to see if we could do a takedown model ak.so this is what we ended up with.modifyed uzi trunion with interchangeable barrels in 9mm and 7.62x25.
Thanks to everyone that replyed to this thread,here's the answers to your questions.
blacksmith:magwell is not detachable.
deth502:both calibers are blowback,uses the same recoil spring and mags are modifyed ppsh 41's.
nibbly:both barrels are 16.25 inches.
southern pride:eight hours every night.lol
dyi:mags are the same,ppsh 41's.they work with both calibers.
ky-ak:somsonite briefcase,bougth it on e-bay for $6.00 bucks.
smitty:lookin foreward to seeing your project.
don't think i missed anyone and thanks again for your replies.(azhonkey)
thanks again guys for the replys,i appreciate it.
SNIPER69:
rear sight base has to be modified,remove .375 inches for barrel nut clearance.no mod to ak trunion,uzi trunion needs to be shortened and turned,pressed into ak trunion and weld.don't think i would try this with rifle calibers and bolt will run both calibers.
GHOSTHUNTER:
i'am not a gunsmith,just a back yard hack.lol
DROBS:
7.62x25 is a modified romy barrel and the 9mm was turned from a 18 inch blank.magwell was made from a piece of 4130 rectangle tube.
thanks again guys for the replys,i appreciate it.

Unquote
That is all I know because I stole the pics
ETA sorry to sidetrack this thread I just really liked this configuration and thought I would share.

Quoted: Gas operated 7.62x25mm?

Sweet.....now I like it even more. A rare gun with a rare Soviet chambering. That would be sweet with some of the better Czech ammo.

Quoted: Quoted: Gas operated 7.62x25mm? Sweet.....now I like it even more. A rare gun with a rare Soviet chambering. That would be sweet with some of the better Czech ammo.

No
both calibers are blowback,uses the same recoil spring and mags are modifyed ppsh 41's.

Quoted: Here's is one of the most innovative builds I hane ever seen. www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?t=312162 I would be really impressed if you could make something like this. I wouldn't expect the barrels to change out but it would be really neat if you made a model in each caliber. I would like one in a fixed stock to keep cost down and 16 inch barrel. ETA I don't think you can see unless you are a member. ETA I just figured out how to post pics and these are stolen. i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb218/shootdaily/takedownak1.jpg i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb218/shootdaily/takedownak2.jpg i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb218/shootdaily/takedownak3.jpg i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb218/shootdaily/takedownak4.jpg

Nice, but I'd rather have the one in the original post.

Nice, but I'd rather have the one in the original post.

Yes Maybe But I envy the skill of a build like either of them.

i want a 9mm AK rifle with 16 inch barrel and a regular Ak rear trunion and furniture so i can put whatever stockset i want on it.

underfolder would work also.

edit: i have been waiting for someone to do a 9mm ak forever

As a Title 1 pistol? -sure, but I wouldn't buy one
As an NFA SBR? -sure, but I can't buy one. (Michigan = no SBR)
As a rifle with 16+ inch barrel? Yes, if it's cost competitive with AK- AR
Side folder, underfolder, fixed stock? -all of the aboveShort PDW length gun as shown or longer fullsize gun, or both? this is ARF- both.

i'll take one in 7.62x25 with 14.5 bbl and fixed flash suppressor, side,under folding or telescoping stock and a ultimak mount!!!

i want a 9mm AK rifle with 16 inch barrel and a regular Ak rear trunion and furniture so i can put whatever stockset i want on it. underfolder would work also.

Yeah, what he said.


I think you'd sell a lot more if it was a rifle that users in most states could buy.
Maybe make the SBR one available too, but in addition to the rifle.

One other poster mentioned mags.
Glock mags would would look strange, but are reasonably priced, and plentiful.

If you want to sell a TON of these, make them cost competitive, ($300-500), with mags that are reasonable too. ($20-30)

Do you think those prices are do-able?

Good luck!

I'm always excited to see new gun designs come out.  

Quoted: i want a 9mm AK rifle with 16 inch barrel and a regular Ak rear trunion and furniture so i can put whatever stockset i want on it. . Maybe make the SBR one available too, but in addition to the rifle. Glock mags would would look strange, but are reasonably priced, and plentiful. If you want to sell a TON of these, make them cost competitive, ($300-500), with mags that are reasonable too. ($20-30) Sten mags Good luck! I'm always excited to see new gun designs come out.

+1 a 9mm carbine is my holy grail right now.  I can't see the pic from work.  but if alot of the parts are interchangable with my AK's that would make it much more appealing.

Quoted: Hi all, We're considering making the following item available to the public and want your thoughts on it. This is a prototype and runs flawlessly. Kalashnikov himself has seen it and thought it was absolutely ingenious. We tend to agree. This is an AK47 in 9mm, yes standard 9mm. If you could have one, how would you like it set up? As a Title 1 pistol? As an NFA SBR? As a rifle with 16+ inch barrel? Side folder, underfolder, fixed stock? Short PDW length gun as shown or longer fullsize gun, or both? Or maybe you just hate the idea altogether. Let us know your thoughts! Drew FFL/SOT Heavy Metal Armory www.MachineGun.com www.machinegun.com/ads/9mmak.jpg

Well I suppose building prototypes of the above mentioned configurations would be cost prohibitive but I for one would like to SEE what they would look like. Any way to photoshop variations for viewing?

A few questions. What is it's overall size? Weight? Are those mags already available or do you make them? What is the capacity of the mags? (more rounds always makes me happier). You said it ran flawlessly. Effective range? How accurate is it? Can it be scoped or have a red dot attached?

A few suggestions. As many have pointed out the 7.62x25 cartridge is pretty nifty. Having a means to change out barrels would be sweet. Practice all day with cheaper 9mm but if you thought things were getting serious change out to the 7.62x25 barrel. The CZ-52 pistols will defeat soft body armor and slice through a Kevlar helmet like butter. I'm hearing more and more average bad guys are using body armor and it would nice to be able to put them down with the 7.62x25.

I own a pre ban Calico 950. It is a sweet gun in many ways. Has never jammed on me, accurate at personal engagement ranges (have not tried long shots with it). Muzzel flip is almost non existent and the you have 50 rounds on tap. Problems? Yeah its too big to carry concealed. I'm a big guy and with a loose Hawaiiian shirt open with a t shirt underneath I could probably get away with it except, to my knowledge, THEY NEVER MADE A HOLSTER FOR IT. Now your prototype there isn't as bulky, lacking the big helixal mag. Design a rig for those of us with concealed carry permits. You'll sell more. Hell I'd carry the Calico some of the time if I had a rig. Even something that had a nipple for the barrel and a few rip away velcro straps for quick draw. (I think the UZI may have had something like this)

Everyone may feel free to call me crazy for what I say next. I am getting a vibe in the general public for an almost nostalgia for the old USSR. I mean remember when the enemy was easily defined, we were pittied against an empire rather than a technique (terrorism). There is a lot of collecting of Soviet era stuff besides weapons. And lets face it they made some cool weapons. I am not a communist and we can see that the ideology didn't work. But give the devil his due. Call it something like the Compact Concealable Combat Pistol and then stamp C.C.C.P. on the side with a Hammer and Sickle. Comrade Doctor General Kalashnikov might even get a chuckle out of that. (you can use that idea if you just give me one or one at a drastically reduced price )

And that is the final question/suggestion. Price. What do you think this is going to cost at market? If its too expensive its only going to collectors and drug dealers. Can you produce it at a working man's price? And keep mags plentiful and relatively inexpensive? I love the idea of innovation. I'd really like to see it as a day to day use gun rather than a range only weapon or a collectors piece. Right now my carry is the CZ-52. You make this inexpensive enough and have a rig that fits under a big shirt or jacket and I am on board. My .02 cents.

Cheers,
RWB64

16" barrel with fixed stock please.

1. I think first product configuration should be a pistol with sling stud at rear trunnion.  Optic rail would be nice unless it would add significantly to cost.

2. 2nd option would be a provision to add stock for people who want to make it into NFA SBR, most probably a Romy side-folder.  Recoil from 9MM is pretty low and Romy side-folder are widely available and cheap.

3. 3rd option would be to sell it with stock and extended barrel or permanently attached fake can for people who are not able to have NFA SBR in their state.

--John

I vote for Pistol and Rifle.  Pistol for a truck gun.  Rifle for a plinking carbine.

youd probably sell the most by making it available as a carbine so most people could buy it. but you have to have the nfa and pistols too for fun factor

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Quoted: i'll take one in 7.62x25 with 14.5 bbl and fixed flash suppressor, side,under folding or telescoping stock and a ultimak mount!!!

Yeah, exactly what gdblair said. Given the low price of 7.62x25 right now, I now have more than I could every possibly shoot in my CZ52. For less than $500 I would not have to even think twice. For $600 I would have to think how to explain it to the wife as a grab my wallet. At $700+ I have to start comparing with competition (assuming that someone can finally get a PPSH41 to market that actually works As for 9mm, not really interested.

How about a mag well that can handle a Soumi 72 round drum as well as a stick mag? I have been waiting for a 9mm AK (I've got them in .22, 5.45, .223, 7.62x39, .308, and 20 gauge).

I'd be more interested in it if I didn't have to go the SBR route instead of just a AK 9mm pistol.

And how much would the mags be?

What type of magazine will it use?

I am interested.

FOR THE RECORD...............THESE ARE NOT FOR SALE YET!!!! PLEASE DO NOT CONTACT US TO PURCHASE ONE AS IF YOU LOOK AT THE ORIGINAL POST, WE ARE CONSIDERING THIS PROJECT AND WANT YOUR OPINIONS ON IT................AND SUGGESTIONS ON WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE WITH IT.

AGAIN, NOT FOR SALE YET AND WE ARE NOT TAKING ANY ORDERS YET.

Just DO WANT AND VALUE  your thoughts and opinions.

That said, we've had quite a few people suggest 7.62x25 caliber on this.....while we understand the reason for wanting the caliber, does anyone know the situation with 7.62x25 ammunition? There's a little left in the country, but not much. What would you do with it after the existing ammo supply is gone? To my knowledge nobody is currently importing it and nobody here in the US is making it.

If there is a long term ammo solution it would definately make sense to do it in 7.62x25, completely agreed. But "Jo-Bob's Gun Shop" having 2-3 dusty boxes sitting on the shelf right now does not constitute real ammo supply, nor does a few thousand rounds at one of the wholesalers..........there are some import issues with 7.62x25 as far as I know as well.

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Quoted: What type of magazine will it use? I am interested.

It is a proprietary magazine specific to this gun, not a converted anything, purpose built to run correctly.

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Quoted: How about a mag well that can handle a Soumi 72 round drum as well as a stick mag? I have been waiting for a 9mm AK (I've got them in .22, 5.45, .223, 7.62x39, .308, and 20 gauge).

Good idea...............we'll have to do some thinking on that. Easier to modify the mag than the gun though at this point.

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Quoted: height=8 Quoted: i'll take one in 7.62x25 with 14.5 bbl and fixed flash suppressor, side,under folding or telescoping stock and a ultimak mount!!! Yeah, exactly what gdblair said. Given the low price of 7.62x25 right now, I now have more than I could every possibly shoot in my CZ52. For less than $500 I would not have to even think twice. For $600 I would have to think how to explain it to the wife as a grab my wallet. At $700+ I have to start comparing with competition (assuming that someone can finally get a PPSH41 to market that actually works Our target price is in the $600 to sub-$600 range.

Quoted: That said, we've had quite a few people suggest 7.62x25 caliber on this.....while we understand the reason for wanting the caliber, does anyone know the situation with 7.62x25 ammunition? There's a little left in the country, but not much. What would you do with it after the existing ammo supply is gone? To my knowledge nobody is currently importing it and nobody here in the US is making it. If there is a long term ammo solution it would definately make sense to do it in 7.62x25, completely agreed. But "Jo-Bob's Gun Shop" having 2-3 dusty boxes sitting on the shelf right now does not constitute real ammo supply, nor does a few thousand rounds at one of the wholesalers..........there are some import issues with 7.62x25 as far as I know as well.

You are on the right track with 9mm.

+1 on a 16" carbine in 9mm.  Ammo is plentiful and on the cheap end of the scale.  

What an absolutely brilliant idea!  

That said, we've had quite a few people suggest 7.62x25 caliber on this.....while we understand the reason for wanting the caliber, does anyone know the situation with 7.62x25 ammunition? There's a little left in the country, but not much. What would you do with it after the existing ammo supply is gone? To my knowledge nobody is currently importing it and nobody here in the US is making it. If there is a long term ammo solution it would definately make sense to do it in 7.62x25, completely agreed. But "Jo-Bob's Gun Shop" having 2-3 dusty boxes sitting on the shelf right now does not constitute real ammo supply, nor does a few thousand rounds at one of the wholesalers..........there are some import issues with 7.62x25 as far as I know as well.

If you are talking about the corrosive mil surplus stuff that is around I haven't used any in my CZ-52s. Sellier & Bellot is manufacturing it new, boxer primed, non corrosive. Wolf also has it listed in their catalog. I have used the Wolf Gold as well and it is what my CZs prefer. I had planned to stock up on a few thousand rounds of FMJ and HP. If you know something about import restrictions please share because that is news to me. If that's the case I'm going to have to reprioritize my "gun projects" list and put "hoard Tokarev ammo" at the top. Damn they import these things at a good price and now we aren't going to be able to get any ammo for them?
Cheers,
RWB64

600 range huh

I wil take it

I would perfer at least a 6" threaded barrel in pistol form.

Pistol is alright by me. Rifle would be cool as well. I am thinking a 16" SD type config. I would be all over that.

For rifle purposes would std AK pattern stocks work?

TAG

Is this a copy of a Russian design or a new weapon you made?