Quad Stack Project ** UPDATE WITH PHOTOS ***

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Quad Stack Project ** UPDATE WITH PHOTOS *** (Page 1 of 3)

Posted: 6/4/2008 4:57:21 AM EDT

Ok as some of you have seen in the other thread I have decided to try and see how far i can get with a US made version of the ever popular quad stack magazines. As of now I am going to work first on a design for the 5.45*39 round and then 5.56 and 7.62 if demand follows, and in whichever order is dictated by the end users.

To give you guys some background on myself I am a Sr. in mechanical engineering at the university of Illinois in Urbana champaign with a focus in materials. Ive been doing computer modeling work for a few months now and am what i would call competent in solidworks design software.

As far as the project goes, I started design work on the quad stack follower last night and I hope to have it finished up by the weekend. I will post up the screenshots of the part when i get it all finished up. To me this is simply a side project and as of now is nothing of top priority to me other than a few hours a night as i have a full time job doing solidworks modeling for a company and am hoping to get a part time job doing modeling for a local gunsmith who works heavily in HK products.

I also wanted to ask what you all thought a fair price for these would be once they are avalible? Im not sure how many runs would be made, if infact any. I know i would keep a few for myself and sell off the rest, hopefully to recoup my costs if nothing else.

I will keep you all informed and updated on the project for sure, wish me luck

Pat

PS Im also working on some Delrin handguards for Krinks similar to what was offered by autoburst only with a removable bottom rail to allow the user to decide if they would like a vert grip or not. So far i havent started a thread on that. Keep an eye out for that in the future

Posted: 6/4/2008 5:16:23 AM EDT

[#1]

Price it according to good business practices, not what a bunch of cheap bastards (like me....$50) want to pay.
Some of these folks would bitch if they were buried in a $5 solid gold coffin at a funeral run by The Pope.
Then again, some of them will pay $50 for a new Rooogler Mini-14 20 round mag. See 44mag.com.

How are you going to make normal capacity mags in Daley Land?
How does an HK smith function in Daley Land?

Posted: 6/4/2008 7:00:33 AM EDT

[#2]

Im outside of Daley land by a good distance. Im right across the river from St. Louis MO, so we arnt in chicago liberal anti gun issues. The town im from is Edwardsville IL. As far as i know there is no issue with producing magazines, such as no special licenses needed as there would be for Class 3 NFA things that the HK smith im working with has. However i am looking into getting my manufactuaring SOT stuff as well.

Pat

Posted: 6/4/2008 6:37:09 PM EDT

[#3]

I guess I was under a misconception with regards to the current legal climate in IL.
If you get these mags working then I'm in for at least two.

Posted: 6/4/2008 7:43:58 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

As of now I am going to work first on a design for the 5.45*39 round and then 5.56 and 7.62 if demand follows, and in whichever order is dictated by the end users.

If you get the 5.45x39 working, I think you shold jump to the 7.62 next, and then the 5.56 last.

I also wanted to ask what you all thought a fair price for these would be once they are avalible?

Assuming they'd be painted black like the standard Bulgy 74 mags, I'd say maybe somewhere in the $50 - $60 range. Maybe $60 - $70 for some snazy bakelite's. It's hard to gauge, as most of us have no idae as to just how much work really goes into design & manufacture of them.

PS Im also working on some Delrin handguards for Krinks similar to what was offered by autoburst only with a removable bottom rail to allow the user to decide if they would like a vert grip or not.

I say do them with the permanently integrated bottom rail, just like Autoburst, but make two short "removeable" rails at the front/sides of each lower handguard to allow for tac light attachments such as the M3.

Posted: 6/4/2008 10:36:54 PM EDT

[#5]

I would think that $50.00 sounds like a good fair price, I would be willing to try a couple at that price

I think that the 5.45 mag would move the fastest

Posted: 6/5/2008 8:24:44 AM EDT

[#6]

yeah you get a working one sign me up too

Posted: 6/5/2008 2:04:30 PM EDT

[#7]

Ok update time.

I have one of the follower parts finished, another almost done, and the third may get started tonight. Ill post up the images of the parts and the assembly later tonight if i can figure out how to post pictures

Pat

Posted: 6/5/2008 2:22:44 PM EDT

[#8]

if you need a beta tester lmk!

Posted: 6/5/2008 2:53:07 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Price it according to good business practices, not what a bunch of cheap bastards (like me....$50) want to pay.
Some of these folks would bitch if they were buried in a $5 solid gold coffin at a funeral run by The Pope.
Then again, some of them will pay $50 for a new Rooogler Mini-14 20 round mag. See 44mag.com.

How are you going to make normal capacity mags in Daley Land?
How does an HK smith function in Daley Land?

Daley land is Chicago.

Why dont you ask these guys how they survive in our state...

Armalite
Les Baer
Robert Miller
DAarms
Rock River Arms
Springfield
Lewis Machine and Tool

...the list goes on

Oh, also...I'd be in for a few. I'd assume these would be 60 round capacity or close to it?

Would sure be nice to have some of these for my RPK.

Posted: 6/5/2008 3:25:49 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Price it according to good business practices, not what a bunch of cheap bastards (like me....$50) want to pay.
Some of these folks would bitch if they were buried in a $5 solid gold coffin at a funeral run by The Pope.
Then again, some of them will pay $50 for a new Rooogler Mini-14 20 round mag. See 44mag.com.

How are you going to make normal capacity mags in Daley Land?
How does an HK smith function in Daley Land?

Daley land is Chicago.

Why dont you ask these guys how they survive in our state...

Armalite
Les Baer
Robert Miller
DAarms
Rock River Arms
Springfield
Lewis Machine and Tool

...the list goes on

Oh, also...I'd be in for a few. I'd assume these would be 60 round capacity or close to it?

Would sure be nice to have some of these for my RPK.

I thought the tards were doing there best to run out all gun manufacturers? Thought Les Baer left Illinois?

Posted: 6/5/2008 3:32:32 PM EDT

[#11]

Make this work and you will have a nice starting point for a business. Look into Quad-AR mags too.

Posted: 6/5/2008 3:34:19 PM EDT

[#12]

OST

Posted: 6/5/2008 3:37:55 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Price it according to good business practices, not what a bunch of cheap bastards (like me....$50) want to pay.
Some of these folks would bitch if they were buried in a $5 solid gold coffin at a funeral run by The Pope.
Then again, some of them will pay $50 for a new Rooogler Mini-14 20 round mag. See 44mag.com.

How are you going to make normal capacity mags in Daley Land?
How does an HK smith function in Daley Land?

Daley land is Chicago.

Why dont you ask these guys how they survive in our state...

Armalite
Les Baer
Robert Miller
DAarms
Rock River Arms
Springfield
Lewis Machine and Tool

...the list goes on

Oh, also...I'd be in for a few. I'd assume these would be 60 round capacity or close to it?

Would sure be nice to have some of these for my RPK.

Are many of them not looking to leave or am I woefully misinformed?

I'm still down for two mags.

Posted: 6/5/2008 4:19:54 PM EDT

[#14]

I'd place the price somewhere between mags of similar capacity, so anywhere from $20 for 40 rounders to $120 for 75 round drums. So I'd probably stick the price at $80-90 if the capacity is between 60-70 rounds.

ETA: If they're reliable and look good I'd take one.

Posted: 6/5/2008 5:27:36 PM EDT

[#15]

well im planing that they will look exactly like the quad stacks you see in the pics from russia. I may try making them out of similar material as PMags though as they seem as robust as any.

This project is going to take several months to get off the ground, so i hope everyone realizes that these arnt going to be finished up and ready next week. The modeling is only one part of it but then i have to see about molds and costs of materials and stuff. Not to mention someone to mold them.

They will get done, just not tommaro lol.

Pat

Posted: 6/5/2008 5:31:01 PM EDT

[#16]

Put me down for two! Good luck, you could make this a full time job if you get a working design.

Posted: 6/5/2008 6:27:39 PM EDT

[#17]

go ahead and put me down for one too. If you do other calibers, put me down for one of them too.

Posted: 6/5/2008 7:21:03 PM EDT

[#18]

Also wanted to say that im not going to be taking pre-orders for these at all, atleast not untill i have a working prototype that i am confident works, and have spoken with a shop about production.

I will be sure to keep everyone in the thread in mind when they are released, and perhaps a few in mind for testing. I have two 74 krinks to test fit with, but it never hurts to have lots more.

I finished up the second part tonight, and modeled up some 5.45*39 rounds to check for fit issues. So far it looks good. I cant figure out how to put up screen shots yet though.

Pat

Posted: 6/5/2008 7:35:06 PM EDT

[#19]

Ungawa.

Must TAG.

Put me down for 2 mags also.

Some of the manufacturers you listed have already moved out. I think Les Baer has already moved out of Illinois (to Iowa) and closed their operations in Ill. No loss of employees and the move actually reduced the drive time for many of the folks who already lived on the "other side of the line"

Armalite is also looking to move.

Posted: 6/7/2008 5:21:12 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Ungawa.

Must TAG.
Put me down for 2 mags also.

Some of the manufacturers you listed have already moved out. I think Les Baer has already moved out of Illinois (to Iowa) and closed their operations in Ill. No loss of employees and the move actually reduced the drive time for many of the folks who already lived on the "other side of the line"

Armalite is also looking to move.

+1

Posted: 6/8/2008 5:09:46 PM EDT

[#21]

put me down for 2

Posted: 6/8/2008 6:14:28 PM EDT

[#22]

Just got home from a weekend with my girlfriend and her family, so just wanted to give you guys another update.

I will have the follower finished early this week and would like some help hosting photos/screenshots from my computer.

Other than that trying to find springs that will work with the quad design.

Also picked up two mega reciever from my gfs aunt who does all my FFL transfers. Just built one up tonight actually.

Pat

Posted: 6/9/2008 6:26:13 AM EDT

[#23]

IMHO for the 7.62x39 you'd be competting with the 75/100 rnd drums that range in price from ~$125-$200. 40 round mags are a lot cheaper but too long to be very useful.

I'd think if you can get a ~60+ rnd mag with a length less than or equal to the 30rnd length, and a price less than $100 you'd have a niche.

ETA: others may think a "40-rnd length" may be acceptable, and then yours would be in the ~80rnd range. Your price would have to be significatnly less than the $125 for people to not get the drums in favor of yours. Just MHO.

Posted: 6/9/2008 9:33:20 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Just got home from a weekend with my girlfriend and her family, so just wanted to give you guys another update.

I will have the follower finished early this week and would like some help hosting photos/screenshots from my computer.

Other than that trying to find springs that will work with the quad design.

Also picked up two mega reciever from my gfs aunt who does all my FFL transfers. Just built one up tonight actually.

Pat

You need a service like Photobucket to host the images or you need to mooch some space for someone that gets some space with their ISP account like Cox Cable subscribers. I think Comcast users get a small space as well.

Posted: 6/9/2008 1:49:15 PM EDT

[#25]

I'll definitely buy two if you can make them work. Very exciting project. I wish you the best of luck and imagine that if you can make them reliable and durable, you'll have a serious money maker on your hands!

Posted: 6/9/2008 3:56:55 PM EDT

[#26]

Remember us little people when you're famous!!

And please use an obscure date coding system with numbers enclosed in shapes!

I would have owned page two if I could simultaneously count and give a crap about owning page two.

Posted: 6/9/2008 7:22:45 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
.

I will have the follower finished early this week and would like some help hosting photos/screenshots from my computer.

Pat

I just sent you a IM with my email address, I can host the pics for you if you email them to me

Posted: 6/9/2008 7:49:53 PM EDT

[#28]

I am in for a couple 5.45 mags. I would also be in for Delrin krink handguards!

Posted: 6/10/2008 4:01:00 AM EDT

[#29]

Make them cheap and in 7.62x39mm.

Posted: 6/10/2008 5:07:42 PM EDT

[#30]

dpmm-

got your message when i got home, the files are on my work computer so ill have to wait till tommaro to send you the screen shots.

So far today i redid the geometery of the folower to something i think works better. Its a bitch trying to get all the arcs and distances to work out for quad stacking.

Its going slowly and surely guys.

Pat

Posted: 6/11/2008 7:43:10 AM EDT

[#31]

Have you looked at the Suomi "coffin" mags?

Posted: 6/11/2008 8:06:43 AM EDT

[#32]

I just checked out the suomi mags, very interesting to say the least. Ill keep that idea in mind for sure.

As far as other updates, screenshots of models have been taken and emailed to dpmmn who was nice enough to offer to host them. Hopefully he can post them up shortly.

The project has a long way to go as far as geometry and what not, but its getting there

Pat

Posted: 6/11/2008 9:27:15 AM EDT

[#33]

Here they are

Posted: 6/13/2008 2:37:18 AM EDT

[#34]

The design looks real good. Can't wait.

Posted: 6/13/2008 6:32:29 PM EDT

[#35]

dont know if your trying to make an exact copy, or just using the original drawings as inspiration, but if its the former, than the follower has the channel in it because there should be a couple of diamond shaped plateaus on the front and back of the inside mag body to shape the quad stack into two single stacks before they come together as a double stack. (Breath) Follow me?hing

Posted: 6/14/2008 7:44:55 AM EDT

[#36]

Yes, i know what you are talking about. The diamond shapes are up at the top where it splits from quad stack to quasi quad so that i can be filed back down to a double stack. These photos are of just a work in progress. The hardest part was getting the geometry and dimensions of the follower arms correct so that they are in the proper positions for quad stack movement. I have done several other things to the follower since these photos were posted, just wanted to show everyone how the work was going.

Pat

Posted: 6/20/2008 9:20:36 PM EDT

[#37]

Bump to keep it on the first page

Posted: 6/23/2008 5:21:36 PM EDT

[#38]

Alrighty, i know this seems to have gotten pushed to the side, but i have been swamped at work and have also picked up another part time job doing cad modeling. Im actually doing cad parts for michaelsmachine who makes the HK beltfeds. Thats a fun a rewarding thing in itself, but as you can imagine doing cad for a full time job as well as part time leaves me with little room to breath at nights and thats hard to stick more cad into.

For the time being i have turned my power to looking into tool and die makers to see what molds cost and how long the lead time is to get them produced. So while i might not be doing model work i am still on the project. Hope no one is loosing faith.

Pat

Posted: 6/23/2008 6:46:13 PM EDT

[#39]

I'm in for 2 once you get them made.

Posted: 6/25/2008 8:56:56 PM EDT

[#40]

I'm in for 2-4 as well. If successful, this has major potential for you getting to quit your real job.

scottMO

Posted: 6/25/2008 9:13:08 PM EDT

[#41]

I'm in for 2. I hope this gets off the ground.

Posted: 6/28/2008 11:35:11 AM EDT

[#42]

I want at least 2. 545x39 preferred, but any other caliber as well.

Posted: 6/28/2008 7:16:04 PM EDT

[#43]

Sounds interesting. If you can actually get working quad mags to the masses then I think you've got yourself a nice market niche.
I be interested in 1 in each caliber(5.45x39, 5.56x45 & 7.62x39).

Posted: 7/3/2008 9:32:37 AM EDT

[#44]

I am in for 2 or more, 5.45x39.

Posted: 7/5/2008 3:48:47 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
I'm in for 2-4 as well. If successful, this has major potential for you getting to quit your real job.

scottMO

Very true.

Posted: 7/6/2008 11:27:38 AM EDT

[#46]

In for 2-4

Thanks for putting this project together!

Posted: 7/6/2008 3:37:15 PM EDT

[#47]

Hey guys,

Sorry there have been no updates lately, just been totally swamped at work and dealing with other issues.

Right now i think i have everything drawn up and working. Im in talks with a company to do some rapid prototypes of the parts so i can do a physical fit check. Im also in talks with a small company to do the full production of the parts once i get the real molds made. Progress is still going on these, just slower than i could have though.

Im glad you all think its a great idea, cant wait to get them made and out.

Pat

Posted: 7/6/2008 4:07:36 PM EDT

[#48]

not that you would, but for god sake do not skimp on the polymer material for the mag body! I fear that "small" shops won't have access or experience with modern plastics that now dominate the AR accessory/parts world.

Posted: 7/6/2008 4:11:32 PM EDT

[#49]

Sounds like the proje

ct is going well, Good Luck

Posted: 7/7/2008 3:18:24 PM EDT

[#50]

the shop i intend to go with isnt "small" but they arnt large either. Fear not im not going to skip and use the wrong materials for these things. Im gona make something that i myself would pay full price for, so im not going to cut corners trying to make a quick buck. Ive already invested more time into this than i thought it would take, but ive enjoyed every second of it. Hopefully it all works out and we all get some sweet mags.

Pat

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Quad Stack Project ** UPDATE WITH PHOTOS *** (Page 1 of 3)

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