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Posted: 8/23/2005 9:10:47 PM EDT
[#1]
Man that's nasty. I'd accept nothing less than full replacement value of the weapon.
Sorry that happened to you. I'll not be trying any of that cleaning method however, thanks for the warning..... |
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Posted: 8/23/2005 9:12:59 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 8/23/2005 9:13:46 PM EDT
[#3]
I know the Ultrasound clenaing system uses a liquid, but do they use a water based liquid??
Seems like it would be better to use alcohol or motor oil or something like that. |
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Posted: 8/23/2005 9:17:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Pics now working
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Posted: 8/23/2005 11:38:05 PM EDT
[#5]
That is totaly unexceptable!!!!!!!!!!
The shop that did that to your gun has to pay for it. You can bet the bore is rusted and that will probibly kill your accuracy. This is no way to treat a customer and the guy who did this should offer to replace the weapon right off the bat before you could even ask for compensation! Ask for a new gun or full value of the gun and nothing less! NEVER EVER let someone you don't know clean your gun or work on it. This is a classic example of if you need it done right do it yourself! Good luck and I hope you get this fixed up fast! |
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Posted: 8/24/2005 1:51:54 AM EDT
[#6]
Yep....I even told the guy when I dropped it off "this is the first time I've ever let anyone else work on any of my weapons." Heh, jokes on me. It's a bit strange though. I've seen and handled two or three other rifles and SMG's that have gone to the same guy for the ultrasonic cleaning and it was amazing, the cleanest weapons I've ever held. I think mine just got overlooked somewhere in the process. Live and learn. |
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Posted: 8/24/2005 3:28:21 AM EDT
[#7]
He forgot to lubricate it right after the cleaning.
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Posted: 8/24/2005 3:50:10 AM EDT
[#8]
That would make me sick.
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Posted: 8/24/2005 4:05:56 AM EDT
[#9]
i would expect full cash value or equal replacement and wouldnt have left without it.
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Posted: 8/24/2005 4:42:44 AM EDT
[#10]
Man, what ever he used it must have been some caustic shit! That looks terrible, and such service is unacceptable..........take the weapon back to them and demand replacement!
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Posted: 8/24/2005 4:58:22 AM EDT
[#11]
I'm not impressed with those ultrasonic cleaners. That's just me.
I'd also ask for replacement of the rifle. I'd love to see pictures of the goo that comes out of the barrel. |
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Posted: 8/24/2005 5:07:18 AM EDT
[#12]
He probably has a hired hand in the back doing the more mundane tasks, like running the ultrasound tank. Equadorian from the jungle, judging by the look of that rifle.
Take it back and let the owner help you decide if you need refinishing, or 'all new'. {Apologies to any former jungle dwellers -- Pix of the bore patch?} |
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Posted: 8/24/2005 8:58:49 PM EDT
[#13]
Given that choice, what do you think the owner will say? Go for full replacement. Nothing less. ETA You're correct, the owner may have no knowledge of what happened and will want to uphold the reputation of his shop. |
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Posted: 8/24/2005 10:30:42 PM EDT
[#14]
Since this is ARFCom you are about 4 posts away from the guy who says, "It's your fault - you should have cleaned it yourself."
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Posted: 8/24/2005 11:03:26 PM EDT
[#15]
Any update? Hope things are working out well for you!
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Posted: 8/25/2005 4:32:44 AM EDT
[#16]
should have. |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 10:25:01 AM EDT
[#17]
Tagged for update.
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Posted: 8/25/2005 5:40:07 PM EDT
[#18]
Monty,
Before you clean off the rust etc. take it back to the shop and explain/show the damage. It was obviously removed from the sonic tank and not relubed as stated by someone else above. It also wasn't completely dried off after coming out of the tank using compressed air. In addition I would ask what was used as a tank solution, as there is obviously no rust inhibitor in the mix  I have a couple of Tanks I use regularly at work. The sort of damage you have, ain't normal, unless someone did something really negligent. The shop owner may very well be tasking a subordinate with the mundane tasks, and If the shop were mine, I'd like to know about the flunkie jacking up a Cops Patrol rifle before he jacks up any more! The bore of your rifle might be OK if it is chromed, but the finish of the other parts is pretty much toast. GEEEEZ! I hate to see stuff like this! Best of luck in the matter! S-28 |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 9:50:18 PM EDT
[#19]
Took the rifle back right away, didn't clean it at all so the shop owner could see the damage. Gave me a brand new A2 Govt carbine as a loaner rifle and stated he will do all he can to make it right. Right now the shop owner is saying that it is only surface rust and wants to refinish the barrel. He said the bore is fine with no rust damage. I told him I wasn't too happy about that being the solution and thought that a refinish would simply be covering up the remainder of the damage. In fairness to the shop owner, he is bending over backwards to take care of me. Once I mentioned that refinishing didn't thrill me he immediately asked me how I fealt about a complete new Colt upper and what type of barrel configuration I would like to have. I have the department armorer all lined out to check out the rifle if something other than a replacement upper is done.
I'll keep everyone up to speed. I should know more on Tuesday or Wednesday of next week. Monty |
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Posted: 8/25/2005 11:31:50 PM EDT
[#20]
Sounds like he will take care of you. That is good to know! What part of Colorado are you in?
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Posted: 8/26/2005 7:19:23 AM EDT
[#21]
Ok, new update. My department armorer went out to the shop and went through the rifle with the shop owner. The good news is that the bore is absolutely perfect, no damage at all. The shop owner is replacing the delta ring and re-parkerizing the barrel. When that's done he'll give it back to the armorer for another check and test firing. Then I get it and will go shoot the hell out of it. Shop owner says he'll still do whatever it takes to make me happy. If I don't like anything about the re-park he'll take the next step.
Overall, A+ on how this has been handled. Skagsig40 - I'm out in Parker |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 8:44:13 AM EDT
[#22]
Great news! The shop owner sounds like a real stand up guy.
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Posted: 8/26/2005 8:51:51 AM EDT
[#23]
Brownells sells good products for ultrasonic cleaning. First is a caustic cleaner. A water bath neutralizes it, and then there is an ultrasonically applied lube. I have never had rust problems.
The S.D. armorer recommended the stuff to our group. Sounds like the gunplumber is a frickin' idiot. Tell him to call brownells or sell his ultrasound tank!!! |
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Posted: 8/26/2005 9:54:42 AM EDT
[#24]
I often use an ultrasonic cleaner at my work for cleaning my gun parts and the most important thing to keep in mind is that it completely degreases the parts. I immediately rinse the parts in water after removing them from the tank and then dries them with a cloth. After that i use gun oil on a spray can and completely cover the parts and then removes excess oil with a cloth. I have never had any problems with rust on my gunparts but i know that they rust very fast if they are not protected with oil immediately after cleaning... Magnus |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 4:20:15 AM EDT
[#25]
HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What the hell do they use in those ultrasonic tanks? It looks like the finish has been worn through and then subjected to a salt-spray test. What a mess. The bright side is the shop owner seems to be making strides to get things right. In and of itself, that is saying a lot as most gun shops I've dealt with will start by accusing YOU, crooked bastards that they are. Good luck, sounds like you'll be taken care of. Keep us updated. |
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Posted: 8/28/2005 4:22:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Hi Monty0124. I was looking at the pictures of your Patrol AR15. I have been around guns for sometime. Let me comment on what I think is the source of your discoloration. I tend to believe that those red dried drops on the barrel and carrier are nothing but contaminated Ultra Sound Cleaning Fluid that dried on the surfaces of the rifle. Mind you, Ultrasound is great for losening rust. PROVIDED: That the user uses fresh Ultra Sound Cleaning Solution and I always insist on FRESH DISTILLED WATER to cut the cleaning solution. L&R Ultrasound recommends the ratio of water to Lubricant/Cleaner. However, I believe that Distilled Water and frequent tank changes are needed. Regarding Ultrasound cleaning in general. While this meathod (with fresh solution) works great on rusted/neglected guns to loosen surface rust. This meathod is not needed to clean a rifle. A bath of Mineral Spirits works best when followed up with a good lubricant/rust prventative. I would clean that rifle up in Mineral Spirits and hose it down with a good CLP like Break-Free or FP10. Looks like the owner tried to save money and not change his cleaning tank. Nick
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Posted: 8/28/2005 5:26:06 PM EDT
[#27]
I've seen rust before and what I see in the pics is RUST!!!!! Admittedly, I don't know anything about ultrasonic tanks but what I see there definately looks like rust!!! |
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Posted: 9/2/2005 7:42:41 AM EDT
[#28]
Hmm, then how do you explain the pits on the bolt and carrier where the "dried" fluid has been removed? Looks like rust to me. And I've been around guns for sometime too. |
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Posted: 9/2/2005 10:13:03 AM EDT
[#29]
Still no word on my rifle. Getting a little anxious about the progress. I'll update the post if I hear anything.
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Posted: 9/2/2005 8:33:52 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 9/3/2005 7:11:26 PM EDT
[#31]
20 years ago, use to us solvents in the ultrasonic cleaners, however, between enviromental issues and saftey issues (i.e. fluid gets warm from the ultrasonic energy - which can cause fire with some fluids) this is nearly a thing of the past and many/most ultrasonic cleaner fluids are water based and buffered to prevent rusting while being used ... but have to clean and lube after the ultrasonic cleaning.
Best option is to do the lubing in the ultransonc so get all the tiny spots. |
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Posted: 10/2/2005 11:27:02 PM EDT
[#32]
did you remove the cleaning solution and relube the rifle?
if the shop won't fix it there is always 0000 steel wool and CLP. Why is your COLT carrier white? |
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Posted: 10/5/2005 8:31:35 AM EDT
[#33]
The sonic washer did its job just fine. They are designed to remove all the impurities in the metal, including lube. The result was to be expected. Unless the gun is immediatley lubed after the sonic washer, you will acquire some surface rust.
I have no idea why your armorer would recommend that you go there. Every armorer school I have gone to quickly discourages the use of sonic washers. In the case of sonmic washers, you can use the old phrase "if you want it doen right, you have to do it yourself." |
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Posted: 10/10/2005 11:36:06 AM EDT
[#34]
Wow......
I've seen guns that went through the sonic cleaners and they NEVER looked like that. Granted, when my buddy did it, he took off the "furniture". Granted, I don't think he ever tanked an AR upper..... not sure though... |
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Posted: 10/13/2005 4:13:31 PM EDT
[#35]
Looks more like it was hot tanked , lol
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Posted: 10/13/2005 4:19:19 PM EDT
[#36]
sloppy work
ETA I've used ultrasonic cleaning baths and vapour/dip baths too that's shoddy work |
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Posted: 10/30/2005 5:13:29 PM EDT
[#37]
update?
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Posted: 10/30/2005 5:28:00 PM EDT
[#38]
Looks like he used battery acid cut with salt water as the solution.
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Posted: 10/30/2005 8:19:56 PM EDT
[#39]
holy shiet!!! it takes alot to f-up a gun like that, what kind of cleaning fluid was it...acid??? they better give you replacement value for that thing.
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