Well after  2 days of shooting and 440 rounds, I took my rifle appart to clean it.   I was looking at the bolt and and lining up the gaps in the gas rings when I noticed that one ring has about 3/8" gap in it now.  It's huge and appears to be where some metal snaged and was torn away.  I can't find any sign of the sheared away section in the rifle, so that's good. Now I need to find a new set of rings.  

Do they just pull off?  Anything I need to know about them before I start?

Just pull/pry them off. Make sure when you replace them to keep them well lubed. It also pays to keep an extra set handy as the shipping will be more than the rings if you have to order them.

Get a McFarland one piece gas ring and you will never have that problem again

Quoted: Just pull/pry them off. Make sure when you replace them to keep them well lubed. It also pays to keep an extra set handy as the shipping will be more than the rings if you have to order them.

Yes, this I am aware of.  I hate having to order a $2.00 parts set and end up paying more than double that in shipping.  I'm going to look at Denny's Guns and see if they sell them since I can just stop in and not pay shipping.

I JUST REPLACED,MYGAS RINGS ON MY BUSHMASTER.I REPLACED WITH ONE PIECE
MCFARLINE RING.IT TOOK ABOUT 200 ROUNDS TO BRAKE IN.THE STOCK GAS RINGS ARE
SOFTER METAL THAN ON MCFARLINE.BE PREPAIRED FOR A COUPLE MALFUNCTIONS BEFORE IT GETS WORKED IN.THE ONE METAL HAS VERY LITTLE PLAY,LIKE STOCK RINGS.
GREASE IT UP GOOD.AND CLEAN OUT ASSEMBLY,AFTER TO AVOID METAL FLAKING.
GOOD LUCK,OH ITS A BITCH TO GET ON WITH OUT STRECTHING IT TO FAR.

Can't hear ya..........can you speak up a bit?

Should we change the gas rings regularly, or does the rifle start short-stroking when they need to be replaced?

It will short stroke when they are past there operational life. just try the bolt test every know and then. hold the bolt and carrier assy buy the bolt alone in the vertical postion. If the carrier falls off rings are worn.

I think mine got dry and friction took one of thier lives.  The rifle funtioned perfectly although I did notice brass was starting to go all over the place.  Got it home and 1/3 of one of the rings was MIA.  Was a shame really, cut down in its prime  :)  Kinda cool that the rifle kept tickin.

I'll pay more attention to making sure they are WELL lubed from now on.  Local store wanted way to much, but it was still less than having it shipped mail order.

Georgia Percision has a small parts shipping charge of like $1 or $2  . He has all the AR small parts normally.Tommy's  a good guy , and normally ships fast.  GPSS . , WarDawg

ADCO has a small parts policy, don't know if its official but every time I order small parts they throw them taped to their card in a .32c stamped envelope and never charge any s/h.  Good guys to deal w/ too, timely responses.

/S2

ADCO is another great sponcer and place to get parts. When you order , get yourself a spare extractor spring or two, a extractor, a fireing pin retainer pin, and two sets of gas rings. Have alittle spare parts for the occassion. WarDawg

Interestingly, I can find no bolt parts on ADCOs web site other than the extractor O rings.  A little help, please?

Grunteled and ALL;
The problem with the gas ring that ended up MIA, IMHO it was most likely put on and fractured by some IDIOT with a crowbar! I have the the orginal standard gas rings on my old bre-ban Colt after nearly 18,000 rounds and three barrels. If you would care to read my post on this site, over on (general) Competition Shooting and the Accurate AR, I have a thread going there titled "the AR parts that I have replaced" .
No B.S. advice.
I want to add the following quote too!
SFC Murray, (RET) head armorer of the Army Marksmanship Unit, once told  others and myself at a small arms firing school clinic, during the National Matches at Camp Perry, Ohio, that the GAS RINGS were blamed or replaced by the "unknowing"for nearly 80% of all the problems encountered with the M16/AR15 rifle.  The weakest link to problems was the extractor spring. Up-dated parts have since ended this "weak " part.

Dave McGrath

I to have put thousands of rounds down range with the M16 and AR15 . I have never replaced anything. No gas rings or extractor  & spring.  I do have all the replacement parts which cost really nothing  on hand  for the one day something goes south. Very durable rifles if built correctly. Eiother the gas ring was flawed or bent really bad during install. I agree with Wrangler. ,,WD

Interesting growth on this topic!!!

My gang ain't the kindest to our M4's, and they often get to malfunctioning due to extractor springs going bad/ taking a set/ crapping out...whatever.
This is exacerbated by our use of an ECI during administrative use and storage.
(Can't prove but I just KNOW the damn things are to blame!)

Been using Bushamaster extractor springs and "Smurf" and still run into the Faux "Short cycling" caused by the extractor spring lacking the nads to get a grip now and then.

Besides the "D" ring(Can't use 'em) anybody got a preferred spring and source??

As for gas rings.....
I gotta agree with that they are too often blamed.

Usually if they are going to crap out, they will crap out during or close after break in.

If they don't, they take forever to get sloppy.

Have a couple of Old Colts that have seen 20-30,000 rounds and still on the original rings.
My own rifles have been the same.

Beware of over lubing the gas rings.
Lube attracts mung, and the rings then act as mung wipers.
You're gonna get some crud of course, but a slurry of oil and filth can cause them to bind a bit and be even more stressed.

To be honest, the majority of broken gas rings I find are AFTER some Ham fisted idjit  jammed the bolt back in the carrier and it gets found AFTER the next firing.

Also must make mention of the latest rage in rifle blame.
"Clogged Gas tube syndrome".

If you're running ammo that uses Kingsford for a propellant, I might buy into it.

Check the gas key for tightness, and the gas key/ gas tube alignment first......
Then toss the extractor spring on the heap and replace it.

Y'all don't wanna know...it's sad.

Thanks and good luck guys!

S-28

Cool,

Thanks for the heads-up on the shipping issue, that will help me build a spare parts bag without getting raped by some of the dealers in the area.  I really don't like to have to haggle with someone over screws and springs.  Just assine.

As far as the installation of the previous rings... That could well be true.  I dont know the history of the rifle as I bought it used.  I don't know how many rounds it's seen (other than the 1400 I have put through it.).  I know it will drive tacks as long as I do my part so the barrel seems to be in it's prime.  As far as blaming things on the gas rings, I'd have to agree.  The rifle just kept spitting lead even with major damage done to them.  Hard to imagine they would cause malfunctions from being a little worn.

I am a little worried about the missing chunk and when it's going to surface.  I've broken the rifle down as far as I dare and the damned thing is nowhere to be seen.  I've shot since then with no issues, but it sticks in the back of your mind you know.

OK, time to pony up... just order

Extractor
Extractor Spring (oh, go on and get 3 or 4)
Extractor Pin (get a couple or three)
2 hammer springs
2 trigger springs
2 hammer/trigger pins
Disconnector
2 disconnector springs
Takedown and pivot pin detents and springs
Safety selector detent and spring
3 sets (or 9 rings) gas rings OR 3 McFarland rings
3 Firing pin retainer pins
firing pin
cam pin
gas tube roll pin

Might as well get a spare trigger and hammer, too.

(you might want to price this out as a complete lower parts kit, and some more spare parts)

When this all comes in, soak em down with CLP, and store in properly marked airtight containers.  I use some plastic 35mm film cans, a little tupperware type plastic box (for hammer, trigger, firing pin), and drop this all in a larger tupperware type plastic box.

Now, you have paid for the parts, and they all fit in one little box at the shippers.  You have paid shipping only once, and you can keep your AR-15 running for years.

Just do it and get it over with, and then you don't have to wait and worry and gripe about shipping.

When S-28 speaks............................listen !

WEB,

Thanks Dude!!!!

I appreciate the props!

However I mostly appreciate folks minding my spelling, Grammar(Or lack thereof!), and occaisional diction that causes confusion.

Having a bunch of ya minding my errors is a good feeling!

Never mind my grumpy and locked into the old world mentality sometimes getting the better of me.

I am humbled.

S-28

Both Wolff and Colt make stiffer extractor springs than the ones BM sells.  Can get Wolff springs at a number a places, pretty much stuck buying Colt M4 springs from SAW.  

Quoted: Been using Bushamaster extractor springs and "Smurf" and still run into the Faux "Short cycling" caused by the extractor spring lacking the nads to get a grip now and then. How is an extractor losing its grip on brass and the bolt pushing the next round into an area occupied by that brass that failed to clear ever be considered "Short cycling" ......since the bolt did go to the rear far enough to strip the next round out of the mag?   Besides the "D" ring(Can't use 'em) anybody got a preferred spring and source?? www.sawlesales.com   I like their SAW HD green extractor spring with black insert.  Why can't you use the d-Fender ring from MGI?

What ever your job is[that let's you play with kewl stuff and get paid for it   ]..........stay safe.

Dave S

Quoted: Should we change the gas rings regularly, or does the rifle start short-stroking when they need to be replaced?

Gas rings function like, and should be treated like, piston rings in a car engine...

Leave them alone & keep them well lubed, untill you see signs of wear...

FWIW, I had a fairly new set of rings "fall apart" in a Bushmaster bolt carrier assemply many years back.

They made it right, and stated there had been a "burr" inside where one of the vent holes was drilled.  So if you are chewing up rings, try cleaning the carrier well and look for a burr on the inside, where the rings rub.  HTH.

Paladin

ps, my 1982 Colt CAR15 is still running the original rings.

Quoted: Get a McFarland one piece gas ring and you will never have that problem again

Disagree, with all due respect, of course..

On my AR10 carbine upper which has a McFarland ring in it, I ran about 500 rounds through it at Bulletfest before it began short stroking. When I took it apart to find out why, the bolt/carrier fit was loose. After replacing the ring, it's fine again. I've been making a little noise directed at Armalite to at least make a three piece ring set available for the AR10 (AR15 won't fit). Knight's SR-25 rings will supposedly work, but they go for upwards of $30 a set (!) from what I've seen. A gapped ring must compress some to fit the bore and will therefore expand as it wears, resulting in a more consistant (if not as perfect) seal (IMHO). The McFarland ring may well seal a little better than the three piece set, but it can't have as much expansion by design as it wears. My ring was bad enough that the entire back side of the bolt and around the cam pin were crusty with powder residue after the failure.

FWIW, I'm hoping for now that the inside of the carrier might have broken in during the process so the next ring lasts a little longer. I'd feel a little better about things  if it could go a couple thousand rounds on a ring.

DaveS,

Stovepiping, incomplete extraction.

Often finding an empty casing in the action with a live round partially fed.

Replace extractor spring and smurf, and problem is most often cured.

Would blame extractors if it was just one or two, but it has been tracked enough that extractors have been eliminated.

It is not epidemic mind you. But just involving some of those that have had the extractor spring compressed by the ECI for several months.


As for being a "Kewl Job".....
Once in a while it gets to be what I imagine a Gynocologist  deals with.
Those are DARK days!!!!

I see your point on the cycling and timing issue.

Goofy thing is it goes back to the extractor spring in most cases.

As for the D-fender... it ain't authorized currently so I can't order the things.
Thanks for the link however, I might give the springs a try, and if they work out during the beta test, I might be able to build a case.
I'm stuck with having to documant and build a compelling case for everything I do, or face "Good enough is good enough".



I appreciate it!
S-28