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Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 6/4/2010 1:31:13 PM EDT
Hello everyone,
After having read through the FAQs, troubleshooting guides, and all 9 pages on the troubleshooting forums here, I figured I would give this a go.  I own a new olympic arms 16" 5.56 plinker plus AR, with a collapsable stock and it is about one year old.  I have been firing 55 grain 5.56 made by Federal, with new magazines made by CP products the rifle itself has fired around 800 to 900 rounds, the vast majority of it either Federal or American Eagle 55 grain.  Recently the weapon has been sporadically stovepiping; sometimes I can get through an entire magazine of 30 without any problems, and then sometimes I will have a stovepipe every six or seven rounds.  I feel confident that the weapon is not short stroking as the bolt locks to the rear after the last round is expelled; and I also know that my magazines are in good condition.  When stovepiping, it appears that spent casing is getting caught by the new round that is being pushed into the chamber by the bolt.
 After reading other stovepiping/failure to eject threads, I am not sure what action to take with my weapon.  I clean and maintain my weapon very well, but I also realize the quality of the weapon may not be the best as I believe it was modded post-factory completion (possibly a non-olympic arms upper).  Because many of the threads pointed to a bad extractor/spring assembly I will post pictures of mine:

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3152/img1487ss.jpg

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/2496/img1488copy.jpg

Something I have noticed on my weapon that differs from other ARs I have seen here is the massive O-ring that sits on my extractor spring.  The claw on my extractor lip seems to be pretty solid and in good condition; the ejector is also very stiff and seems to be in good condition.  Could the extractor spring assembly be the culprit?
I have also read that stovepiping/failure to eject problems come from a light buffer/buffer spring.  In that case, would it be smart to buy a heavier buffer (h2 or h3) and try that?
Thank you to anyone who may have a suggestion or idea,
Finity1





Link Posted: 6/4/2010 4:32:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Sir,
A few more checks to get you going.
1) Check the extractor groove. The groove that grabs the case rim should be sharp and not deformed. If you lightly draw it across your finger, it should feel sharp, not dull.
2) The extractor spring should be hard to compress. It should have a small insert inside the spring (blue for rifles, black for carbines). I don't see an insert in your photo, it must be missing? Black insert is best as it helps clamp down on the casing for extraction. The o ring around the extractor spring is often not required unless you have a really hard running/short barreled rifle.
3) The ejector, in the bolt face, should move freely under spring tension. If the spring is tired or rusty, it will have a hard time pushing out the expended casing.

In the other thread, your gas key bolt broke off. Get an "easy out" from your local hardware store and you will be able to unscrew the damaged bolt. You will drill a shallow hole into the broken bolt, allowing the easy out to grab onto the thing so that it can be unscrewed. Get replacement carrier key bolts from Bravo Company, they will be hardened and strong enough to get the key torqued down properly again. Once you replace and tighten, stake those bolts in place so they don't back out and cause a leak.

The broken gas key bolt may have been cracked and leaking gas from your bolt carrier, causing a loss of gas and making the rifle choke.

The heavier buffer can be swapped into the rifle once it is running well. If you put one in now, its just something else in the mix to try and get the rifle running well. (Go with an H buffer when ready, checking for malfunctions when you swap it in.)

Since you are getting two replacement bolts for your carrier key, add a set (3) of gas rings for your bolt and an upgraded extractor set (spring,insert). Those issues should fix your rifle and not break the bank getting it running again. The gas rings and extractor spring can wear out, so starting with new parts is a good thing.
Link Posted: 6/4/2010 5:04:55 PM EDT
[#2]
Thank you again for your suggestions, a308garand.  The extractor on my current bolt does have a crisp edge, that is 'sharp' to the touch, not worn.  The extractor spring is pretty stiff as well.  And good catch on the insert for the extractor spring, the weapon never had one and I do recall seeing them on other extractor assemblies I've seen around the site, as well as on military M16s/M4s.

And right now I am debating if I want to buy multiple parts (gas rings, new extractor set, new bolts for gas key) for my current bolt or just buy a new bolt.  Looking at bravo company, I could get a bcm bcg for 140.00, which is in my price range.  Although it is the easy way out, I have no experience/lack the needed equipment for staking gas keys, and I am worried that I would damage the gas key assembly/break another bolt (again) when I could get a bcg that was staked properly to begin with.  And because it is an olympic arms bcg that I have, would adding multiple new parts to hardware with a bad reputation be a good idea?



Link Posted: 6/4/2010 6:08:35 PM EDT
[#3]
A complete bolt carrier group from Bravo Company or Spikes Tactical are both great ideas. Each company has a very good reputation.  

Did you call Olymic Arms to see if they would fix or replace your bolt carrier? You may get lucky since the rifle is only a year old............
(((Toll Free:  1-800-228-3471       FAX:  1-360-491-3447  Store Hours:  Monday thru Friday 7:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m.  PST)))


If no go, you can always keep them as a spare or sell it on the equipment exchange to make up some of the difference. Be sure to let folks know the carrier gas key needs to be worked on :)
Link Posted: 6/5/2010 12:19:23 AM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 6/5/2010 3:36:29 AM EDT
[#5]
I would make sure I was cleaning the chamber well with a chamber brush as well as replacing the extractor parts and trying a new extractor.
Link Posted: 6/5/2010 4:48:41 AM EDT
[#6]

The depicted assembly appears to be factory OA.  They use a #60 Viton quad ring instead of a standard #60 Viton o-ring.  Their current extractor spring is fairly stout, but they lack any insert.
Link Posted: 6/5/2010 9:15:57 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/2496/img1488copy.jpg
The depicted assembly appears to be factory OA.  They use a #60 Viton quad ring instead of a standard #60 Viton o-ring.  Their current extractor spring is fairly stout, but they lack any insert.


My Olympic has the same style extractor and I have never had a feed or eject problem (unless my brass catcher messes things up, but that is not the gun's fault). Most rifle makers use the blue or black insert as was mentioned before. A few others use the o-ring style. Not a weekness IMO, just different. They even sell aftermarket o-rings: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=9949/Product/AR_15_M16_D_FENDER_D_RING

It appears your extractor is OK. What about your ejector? I know you said your mags are OK, but have you tried borrowing a buddy's magazine to see if the problems persists?
Link Posted: 6/5/2010 7:46:26 PM EDT
[#8]
I have a new extractor on the way from bravo company, will see if it helps at all.

@ Not_Infringed:  I did use a buddies mags, although I don't think I put enough rounds down range to be able to tell if they helped exactly, which is my fault.  Another variable to try to work more with once I have the rifle back together.

My ejector seems to be very stiff, the only way I can depress it is by applying a good deal of pressure with a very small allen wrenc/metal rod (which is normal, I believe?)

@Dano523:  Thanks for the input, considering I have no spent cases to use right now (hindsight is 20/20, should have kept a couple of 'em after firing) but I'll keep a few spares next time I shoot.  I'll also see about the o-ring, I thought mine was huge compared to other extractor assemblies that I have seen.  Although Not_Infringed didn't have any problems with his o-ring, similar in build?

I feel that there is an entire variable that I am missing out here.  Because I am going to be out of town for a few days early next week, I probably won't be able to test fire with new parts until Thursday or Friday, in the meantime thank you everyone for your input.  I've learned quite a bit about the operation of these parts in just a day or so of hanging around this site.

Link Posted: 6/7/2010 11:09:42 AM EDT
[#9]
Doesn't sound like it's an extraction problem to me. It's your brass deflector or ejector spring. A new extractor is not going to do any good. Check around the rear of the ejection port to see if you see any burrs. If you do see a burr, then that is the problem, you want to file/sand it until smooth again. Besides that, you'll want to buy a new ejector roll pin and ejector spring. You can only use the ejector roll pin once. Sorry they told you to buy a new extractor.
Link Posted: 6/7/2010 11:39:04 AM EDT
[#10]
I'd look at your ejector, possibly just go ahead and change the ejector spring to a quality replacement.  At least make sure it moves freely, is lubed, etc.  Put a drop of oil around the ejector and depress the ejector several times to work it in.

Another thing to try would be a heavier buffer.  Cycle time on carbine gas 16" barrels is extremely fast, if you can slow that time down the ejected case has more time to get out of the gun.  Something like a 9mm buffer or an H3 weight might well solve your problem, or at least mask it.

The reason for super-tension devices like rubber o rings on the extractor is because of the extremely fast cycle time on carbine gas barrels.
Link Posted: 6/7/2010 3:07:44 PM EDT
[#11]
I had to repair an OA that was doing the exact things some time ago.  It was resolved by stripping down the bolt and clearing out brass debris that had packed in the ejector channel.  Solvent and pipe cleaners work well.  Just remember that when reinstalling the ejector and spring, the ejector needs to be depressed to correctly align the relief slot in the ejector with the hole for the roll pin.  Failing to do so will cause the roll pin to smash into the ejector and get damaged.  It's almost a three-handed operation, but tools like this make it simple.
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