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Posted: 6/11/2010 4:06:34 PM EDT
[#1]
Nobody?
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Posted: 6/11/2010 4:21:17 PM EDT
[#2]
I don't have the parts laying around, but I'm pretty sure the bolts are similar but not quite the same. A great place to check out would be Kel-Tec Owners Group, a good Kel-Tec forum. They should be able to lead you in the right direction. By the way, what's your crazy idea? (If you don't mind me asking
 )
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Posted: 6/11/2010 4:35:30 PM EDT
[#3]
something loosely resembling the Magpul PDR.
Since they're not making it, i'll make my own Build it with a 16-18" barrel (>26" OAL) Then Form1 it into an SBR. Sourcing some good polymer stock material right now, just gonna CNC it from solid... But don't tell anybody...  Magpul's non-functioning prototype. SLA/rapid prototyped.  |
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Posted: 6/11/2010 5:47:56 PM EDT
[#4]
Sounds cool. Why the KT SU/PLR-16 bolt though? Have parts from a KT you want to use?
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Posted: 6/11/2010 5:58:14 PM EDT
[#5]
no, just relatively low cost and pre-existing. Every other crazy firearm project i've gotten into ends up with tons of proprietary parts, such as the forward cocking, bufferless AR pistol in my avatar.
If anything critical breaks, i want to be able to grab an off-the-shelf replacement |
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Posted: 6/11/2010 6:06:02 PM EDT
[#6]
That Magpul bullpup looks SWEET!
Ive always liked the idea of a bullpup rifle but they all look terrible. Dont like the AUG, the Brit's army rifle is blah, even the mini 14s in a pup config were ugly. That Magpul one looks very nice... |
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Posted: 6/11/2010 7:23:58 PM EDT
[#7]
are you sure you want to use something from Kel Tec? I've seen A LOT of failures for them with parts.
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Posted: 6/11/2010 9:41:36 PM EDT
[#8]
Well it would be a functional "proof of concept" prototype.
If the bolt gave me problems, and if the geometry is close enough i would probably take a good AR bolt and turn the tail off of it to replace the kel-tec piece, only using the kel-tec carrier and piston. Only other thing on the market that's similar is an ACR bolt.....good luck  the Kel-Tec carriers are well designed and easy to disassemble, but we'll see... Quoted: are you sure you want to use something from Kel Tec? I've seen A LOT of failures for them with parts. |
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Posted: 6/12/2010 12:55:34 PM EDT
[#9]
I see where you're going with this. I just have seen a lot of problems with Kel tecs in general, especially when I was managing a gun store and had to send 'em back regularly. Had a friend with one of the .223 pistols and be basically wore the upper receiver out completely, but then again, there weren't any problems with the bolt per se. . .
I like your work so far on your other thread. Looking forward to seeing it finished. |
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Posted: 6/13/2010 7:20:33 PM EDT
[#10]
I can't say that I've seen as many as southerncross, but my own Kel-Tec, an SU-16C, has always functioned flawlessly. Of course, I did the break-ins they recommend on the KTOG forum, which I think helped a lot. Keep us updated if you decide to carry this project forward.
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Posted: 6/18/2010 2:57:59 PM EDT
[#11]
bump?
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Posted: 6/18/2010 3:04:36 PM EDT
[#12]
RDTCU, got any design drawings or anything visual you could show us yet?
I can take the bolt out of my SU-16 and take some side-by-side photos of it with an AR bolt, but it'll probably be Sunday night before I can take and post them (I'll be away from home for the weekend...) |
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Posted: 6/18/2010 3:10:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Thanks,RDTCU, got any design drawings or anything visual you could show us yet? I can take the bolt out of my SU-16 and take some side-by-side photos of it with an AR bolt, but it'll probably be Sunday night before I can take and post them (I'll be away from home for the weekend...) That would be great, and if you have some calipers to measure things that would be even better Mostly concerned with lug/bolt face dimensions, and whether or not it will lock up and headspace properly in an AR barrel extension. Right now i just have a rough outer model of the body, i need some dimensions on the internals i would use before i get much further. RDTCU |
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Posted: 6/19/2010 1:39:12 AM EDT
[#14]
We're not headed for the in-laws until the morning, so I took some pics. I didn't get any measurements this time, though - I'll save that for Sunday. Here are my bolts (I know, they need some cleaning
 ):
Bolts end to end 
Side by side 
Side by side again 
Bolt faces (AR on left, SU-16 on right) 
Bolt faces again (AR on left, SU-16 on right) 
Hope this helps a little
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Posted: 6/19/2010 8:54:20 AM EDT
[#15]
Wow, I didn't realize they were that similar. It almost makes me respect the Keltec a little.
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Posted: 6/19/2010 12:03:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Wow, I didn't realize they were that similar. It almost makes me respect the Keltec a little. As I said, mine works well. It's a fun gun to shoot, and you wanna talk about light
And the folding stock is nice too on the SU-16C. Theyr'e novel guns... ...but I still like my ARs better
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Posted: 7/6/2010 11:05:17 PM EDT
[#17]
I too have thought about this same exact thing. Good luck with your project!
Brad |
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Posted: 7/7/2010 7:27:09 PM EDT
[#18]
When you start moving on this project, please update this thread with a link to the new one.
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Posted: 7/7/2010 11:35:05 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
When you start moving on this project, please update this thread with a link to the new one. Or if you had any details on how the project is coming along? I realllllly like this idea, since I'm no big fan of the PS90! |
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Posted: 7/8/2010 1:55:00 AM EDT
[#20]
Slowly but surely. Been kinda busy, and bought an RFB (my first bullpup), so i've had other things on my mind recently
 Working on the model/packaging at the moment  |
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Posted: 7/8/2010 10:19:54 AM EDT
[#21]
this is going to be amazing! |
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Posted: 7/8/2010 11:35:27 AM EDT
[#22]
One thing to consider is keeping the mag well no longer than an AR's. This should allow the new Magpul 50 rd mags to fit
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Posted: 7/8/2010 11:42:16 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
One thing to consider is keeping the mag well no longer than an AR's. This should allow the new Magpul 50 rd mags to fit Truth. One of the earmarks of a PDW is high capacity to keep the enemy at bay longer until help arrives. Can anyone think of a better grip style/arrangement? The Magpul prototype is obviously somewhat P90 inspired, but I wonder one can't do even better. |
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Posted: 7/8/2010 12:17:13 PM EDT
[#24]
Originally Good point, i believe i'm right at the same length right now...Posted By Bretshooter: One thing to consider is keeping the mag well no longer than an AR's. This should allow the new Magpul 50 rd mags to fit Magpul had two designs originally, but i think they only made the one prototype. The other one had a flat and rail section instead of the funky front grip. I'm not sure which i would go with if i get this off the ground.... |
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Posted: 7/13/2010 2:17:33 PM EDT
[#25]
Looks good. How's it going to eject brass? Going to push them out the front like your RFB to make it southpaw-friendly?
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Posted: 7/13/2010 3:00:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: Looks good. How's it going to eject brass? Going to push them out the front like your RFB to make it southpaw-friendly? Thought about just an AUG style port, and i'm right-handed... But the juices are flowing on some sort of case stripper that directs them forward. I think the intention of the prototype was that the brass would fly forwards out the side chute next to the rail halfway up the weapon. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 2:48:11 PM EDT
[#27]
this was the railed version if anybody was wondering. using an MP5-K style front grip on the rail.
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Posted: 7/22/2010 12:28:29 AM EDT
[#28]
Holy Shit! I want two!
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Posted: 7/22/2010 11:51:44 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
this was the railed version if anybody was wondering. using an MP5-K style front grip on the rail. http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/3/3f/MagpulpdrD.jpg/400px-MagpulpdrD.jpg I like it, but I'm geuss you would have to have a tax stamp for it? |
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Posted: 7/22/2010 11:54:12 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: I like it, but I'm geuss you would have to have a tax stamp for it? Yup. My intention would be to build it to 16" barrel/ 26" overall minimum, test it out, then Form-1 it as an SBR, open the gas port and chop/replace the barrel... |
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Posted: 7/23/2010 7:45:37 PM EDT
[#31]
I miss my Kel-Tec SU16c it was a great rifle and would have been a perfect backpacking gun for the hiking i do now.
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Posted: 7/23/2010 8:16:21 PM EDT
[#32]
I'm going to visit someone who owns a SU in a day or so. Pester me and I'll take some calipers and give you some measurements.
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Posted: 7/23/2010 9:01:47 PM EDT
[#33]
I am no engineer, but after looking at an exploded diagram for a su16, it looks like something that one may be able to transplant with minimal effort into a stock that was cnc'd out for the receiver. i love the idea, its like all the people that put a 10-22 in the airsoft bodies, but on the 100th level. looks like an amazing idea. i may just try something like this someday. creativity is not my strong suit, but i am a big admirer. Keep at it, let us know how it works out, and put up a vid on youtube when you're done so i can drool some more.
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Posted: 7/23/2010 10:52:11 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: I am no engineer, but after looking at an exploded diagram for a su16, it looks like something that one may be able to transplant with minimal effort into a stock that was cnc'd out for the receiver. i love the idea, its like all the people that put a 10-22 in the airsoft bodies, but on the 100th level. looks like an amazing idea. i may just try something like this someday. creativity is not my strong suit, but i am a big admirer. Keep at it, let us know how it works out, and put up a vid on youtube when you're done so i can drool some more. Actually thinking: Kel-Tec bolt/carrier/piston/spring/gas tube Standard 11.5" AR barrel (once approved) with carbine gas system and integral gas block, front rail mount point Fire control group and bolt housed in billet aluminum pocket relieved into the stock. AR style split receiver with two pins and one pin up front over the barrel. I get further along with the design i'll upload some pics Bill, thanks for the offer, If you can get things like spring tube diameter/length, distance from bolt centerline to bottom of spring tube and bolt carrier (block) length that would be great |
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Posted: 8/4/2010 2:46:20 AM EDT
[#35]
looking forward to seeing this project come out
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Posted: 8/27/2010 3:05:13 PM EDT
[#36]
Edit for Title Change, and a bump.
More progress soon |
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Posted: 8/27/2010 3:15:32 PM EDT
[#37]
This is the coolest thing in a long time. I thought about building a bullpup also using the SU-16C as the donor action. If you want to use AR barrels, maybe the RRA PDS pistol will work?
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Posted: 8/27/2010 3:19:58 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: This is the coolest thing in a long time. I thought about building a bullpup also using the SU-16C as the donor action. If you want to use AR barrels, maybe the RRA PDS pistol will work? http://www.rockriverarms.com/images/products/rpds10.gif I'm just about ditching using un-modified pre-existing components, with the exception of the barrel and mag, in an effort to actually keep some of the distinguishing features, like the ambidextrous forward ejection. The bolt will start life as an AR bolt though... If i want spares, i'll just have to make at least two of all the important stuff  (then i'll want to build another one with the spares, i know... change barrel/bolt/case pickup and it'll be a 6.8 potentially just build the second upper in 6.8, once i get the lower half SBR'd... |
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Posted: 8/27/2010 4:25:57 PM EDT
[#39]
Cool project, tag.
Why don't you just buy a used Kel Tec rifle and machine a polymer housing for it? I bet it can fit in a PDR package since it doesn't have have a buffer tube, and can fold its stock. Mine was reliable, except for that one time it choked on Wolf ammo. |
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Posted: 8/27/2010 4:31:49 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Cool project, tag. Why don't you just buy a used Kel Tec rifle and machine a polymer housing for it? I bet it can fit in a PDR package since it doesn't have have a buffer tube, and can fold its stock. Mine was reliable, except for that one time it choked on Wolf ammo. Considered it originally, but i wanted to keep the forward selectable ejection (left or righthand, or it would have to have an MSAR swappable bolt/ejection design...) Also, the piston-over-barrel height of the KT bolt carrier was just too high to keep similar dimensions. I'm not wanting to just build a stock for an existing system that will function the same, i kinda wanted to start from scratch... |
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Posted: 8/27/2010 4:53:25 PM EDT
[#41]
Very ambitious, very cool. I wonder if you rounded off the end, if the ATF would allow you to classify it as a pistol and therefore no SBR mess?
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Posted: 8/27/2010 5:00:34 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Very ambitious, very cool. I wonder if you rounded off the end, if the ATF would allow you to classify it as a pistol and therefore no SBR mess? where's the fun in that? |
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Posted: 8/27/2010 6:29:28 PM EDT
[#43]
Do you have a website of your projects? I'd follow your blog.
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Posted: 8/28/2010 1:25:38 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Do you have a website of your projects? I'd follow your blog. Lol, no, i thought that's what ARF was for Maybe when i get bored |
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Posted: 8/28/2010 4:44:48 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Do you have a website of your projects? I'd follow your blog. +1 I would like to see how he did his AR in his profile pic. |
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Posted: 8/28/2010 5:18:53 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do you have a website of your projects? I'd follow your blog. +1 I would like to see how he did his AR in his profile pic. I remember seeing that thread .. that was pretty cool. I aspire to be able to accomplish something like this one day. Oh ya ... TAG.
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Posted: 8/28/2010 5:19:45 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=426271Quoted: +1Do you have a website of your projects? I'd follow your blog. I would like to see how he did his AR in his profile pic. not sure if you can see the archives... |
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Posted: 8/28/2010 9:08:04 PM EDT
[#48]
What about an ar 180 bolt set up? Would work out perfect imo.
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Posted: 8/28/2010 9:18:10 PM EDT
[#49]
My god, this'll be awesome
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Posted: 8/28/2010 10:53:27 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: That's kinda where i was going with this, but with vertical extraction, and an FS2000-style chute to eject over the barrel, with a chute that can be flipped left or right.What about an ar 180 bolt set up? Would work out perfect imo. |
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