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Posted: 9/2/2008 6:05:03 PM EDT
I know that I really like the look of the LaRue upper but the price is holding me back on my build.  Does anyone have experience with billet vs. forged flat top uppers and can advise if a monthly 3 gun shooter really needs the strength of billet?
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 6:13:40 PM EDT
[#1]
Billet is weaker than forging.
Only reason to go billet is if it has some features you want that are not available in a forged unit.
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 6:28:15 PM EDT
[#2]
Not sure if I follow on the billet weaker than forgings.  I've read somewhere that the LaRue flat top upper stiffens up the platform and improves accuracy.  What I'm not sure of is do I need to spend an extra 150$ for this feature or if a forged upper will meet my needs.  I'm not sure where I've read it but aren't there reports of forged flat top uppers flexing due to the lack of a carry handle?  
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 6:35:07 PM EDT
[#3]
Billet is "prettier" because there is no forge flashing and is precision machined in all aspects.  This isn't to imply that forged uppers aren't precise in the places that count.  Forging changes the metal on a micro level, making it slightly stronger and harder.  From what I have seen is that billet uppers usually have more "Meat" in certain places that forgings don't have which MIGHT contribute to strength, but I have no proof either way.  Billet strength can probably be described as somewhere between forging and casting so
Forged
Billet
Cast

Basically its an aesthetic and brand name thing.  If you want to impress other competitors then yes.  Do you need to "stiffen" anything up in the AR15 system?  No.

To really get your rifle to sing you need a good trigger, barrel, free-float rail, and trigger time.
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 7:17:01 PM EDT
[#4]
Off the top of my head I think the tinsel strength of forged 7075 aluminum is up around 80,000psi. And standard 6061 billet aluminum is about 40,000psi. Forged aluminum is much stronger than billet. This is why you see the billet uppers are usually much thicker, to make up for this. Long story short is there are a hell of a lot of AR's running forged uppers that shoot sub- 1/2moa groups all day long.
You may want to get it just because it's made by LaRue and you know it will be machined perfectly. The AR world is a wash in out of spec junk, and this would get you a good part. But really going with any good name brand should give you the same assurance. I would personally just buy a RRA upper can call it a day.

Link Posted: 9/2/2008 7:24:08 PM EDT
[#5]

Quoted:
Off the top of my head I think the tinsel strength of forged 7075 aluminum is up around 80,000psi. And standard 6061 billet aluminum is about 40,000psi. Forged aluminum is much stronger than billet. This is why you see the billet uppers are usually much thicker, to make up for this. Long story short is there are a hell of a lot of AR's running forged uppers that shoot sub- 1/2moa groups all day long.
You may want to get it just because it's made by LaRue and you know it will be machined perfectly. The AR world is a wash in out of spec junk, and this would get you a good part. But really going with any good name brand should give you the same assurance. I would personally just buy a RRA upper can call it a day.



Ouch I didn't know it was 2X
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 8:32:09 PM EDT
[#6]
I have been experimenting with the billet vs. forged uppers a little.  I have a Brownell's upper truing tool.  The kind that slips into the upper and trues the receiver face, the part that the barrel mates against.  I have only used this tool on about 7 forged uppers and 1 billet upper (Sun Devil).  The forged uppers were all from good manufactures, mainly LMT.  All the forged uppers were not perfectly flat and needed a bit of lapping to get them there.  The billet upper was perfectly flat.  I understand that this tool does not replace a lathe and is not the best method but I think it works if properly employed.  Starting with a perfectly flat face would be beneficial  if your building a weapon that you intend to be sub MOA.  I don't think I would worry to much if your building a M-4 clone or similar but for something a little more precise I would buy billet.  I think the strength issue is not actually an issue.  As mentioned before, billet uppers tend to be over built to compensate for it.  Guys that shoot long guns pay big bucks to get everything trued up before getting a great barrel screwed on.  Being able to buy a perfect billet upper is a nice option for the AR owner wanting to squeeze the most they can out of their gas gun instead of 200-400+ dollars to get your 700 blueprinted.  I would do it if you want the precision.  The billet upper weapon I screwed together out shoots all the other AR's I own (3 others).  It will  regularly shoot 10rds into a hole that measures just under .590 using a CL, 14.5'', heavy profile,  bushmaster barrel that I bought from the EE, used for a 100 dollars and handloaded ammo.  It would no doubt be better with a high quality barrel.  
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 9:41:58 PM EDT
[#7]
those stealth uppers are pretty damm sweet.
heres a link for ya to check out...
www.jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=345123
plus larues customer service is some of the best in the biz
Link Posted: 9/3/2008 12:14:51 AM EDT
[#8]
either billet or forged will be strong enough.  if the billet one is what you want for a certain feature, then get it, if the feature is not that important than a forged one is excellent and much cheaper.

you can also look at the billet pieces being meatier because it is easy to make them different than a forged mil-spec upper - think of the cost of the dies/molds for a forging than think of how quick a programmer can make a new billet upper w/ more meat here and there - much cheaper w/ the billet.  but you do sacrifice speed of production since there is a lot more machine work.

there is a place for each and each will serve you fine - get what you want for the reasons you want.

from everything i have ever read, if the same type of material used, in this case say 7075 Al, assuming t6/t651, the forging will be stronger than one cut from billet because in a forging the "grain" is made into the shape as it is pressed into the mold/die, where w/ a billet the grain is cut through since it goes through the piece of billet, not the part and then the part is cut from the billet.  so, as posted earlier - strength is forged->billet->cast
Link Posted: 9/3/2008 9:24:43 AM EDT
[#9]
Forging is basically taking a hunk of metal and smashing it between two dies.  If done properly, it will form a grain structure, and increase structural strength.

Billets have the advantage of having more precise outer dimensions, so they look nicer.  But outer dimensions are not as critical as inner dimensions, which are machined out conventionally anyway.

Save some cash, go with a standard forged receiver.  The military has been using forged receivers since the dawn of time, so you can't go wrong.
Hell, AKs use stamped receivers, and they seem to be doing ok too.

Smaller companies make billets because the tooling required for making a billet is cheaper (all you need is a milling machine, or CNC), but is more laborious and time consuming to make.  This is why they're generally more expensive than forged - but that doesn't mean they're better for all intents and purposes.
Link Posted: 9/3/2008 6:29:03 PM EDT
[#10]
thanks for the great information.  This was exactly the kinda of data that I was looking for.
Link Posted: 9/4/2008 4:51:07 AM EDT
[#11]
height=8
Quoted:
Off the top of my head I think the tinsel strength of forged 7075 aluminum is up around 80,000psi. And standard 6061 billet aluminum is about 40,000psi. Forged aluminum is much stronger than billet. This is why you see the billet uppers are usually much thicker, to make up for this. Long story short is there are a hell of a lot of AR's running forged uppers that shoot sub- 1/2moa groups all day long.
You may want to get it just because it's made by LaRue and you know it will be machined perfectly. The AR world is a wash in out of spec junk, and this would get you a good part. But really going with any good name brand should give you the same assurance. I would personally just buy a RRA upper can call it a day.



The top of your head is pretty close.
My handbook says 6061 T6 has a tensile strength of 45,000psi and 7075 T6 is 83,000psi. This is in the bar form from the mill and has nothing to do with forged or not forged. The T6 is the heat treat process used to harden and artificially age the material. Billet uppers will be machined in the T6 condition and forgingings will be formed in the "dead soft"  or O condition and then heat treated to the T6 condition. The O condition tensile strengths are 6061 18,000 and 7075 33,000 for what it's worth.

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