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Posted: 9/15/2004 6:08:32 PM EDT

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Posted: 9/15/2004 6:58:30 PM EDT

[#1]

Good job. Notice that you do not have to remove the selector usually to install the RR NM2 stage trigger. I say usually as I have installed 5 of these triggers, and only on one lower did I need to remove the selector to put in the trigger. Now, this seems an odd thing to say because I did have to remove the selector to get the standard triggers out (obviously you do not need to do so on yours), if they were in, 3 were new builds and the RR NM trigger was the first to go in. However, never done tinkering, I have taken out and replaced the RR trigger several times in each one doing this and that but only on one lower do I need to remove the selector to put in or take out the RR trigger.

Posted: 9/15/2004 11:08:00 PM EDT

[#2]

Just finished installing my RRA NM trigger. The difference is amazing. The instructions and pictures in this thread were invaluable. This will vastly improve my Bushmaster V Match(20) groups. Thank you very much.

Posted: 9/16/2004 4:29:38 AM EDT

[#3]

Can we get this pinned?

Posted: 9/16/2004 5:22:51 AM EDT

[#4]

One of our stands work really well for trigger changeout. Kind of works as a 3rd hand.

For info, [email protected]

Posted: 9/16/2004 5:28:36 AM EDT

[#5]

Good job on step-by-step!

Posted: 9/16/2004 5:54:55 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
One of our stands work really well for trigger changeout. Kind of works as a 3rd hand.

For info, [email protected]

photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=29942

Mike - I just checked out your website, at www.plastixplustx.com/ar15/ar15.html

That is some COOL stuff you guys make!

Posted: 10/20/2004 9:15:37 PM EDT

[#7]

Thanks!!! Made my RRA trigger install a breeze.

Nick D.

Posted: 10/20/2004 9:52:52 PM EDT

[#8]

I keep this photo in my archive to illustrate what has to be done when an out of spec RRA two-stage trigger doesn't clear the selector when the trigger is pulled. You'll need to grind the portion below the arrow. I have had at least two RRA two-stage triggers that required this modification to work in Colt rifles. I hope the do-it-yourselfers find this valuable.

IMPORTANT: IF YOU GRIND TOO MUCH, YOU RISK THE RIFLE BEING ABLE TO FIRE WITH THE SAFETY ON!

Posted: 10/21/2004 5:26:41 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
I keep this photo in my archive to illustrate what has to be done when an out of spec RRA two-stage trigger doesn't clear the selector when the trigger is pulled. You'll need to grind the portion below the arrow. I have had at least two RRA two-stage triggers that required this modofication to work in Colt rifles. I hope the do-it-yourselfers find this valuable.

photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=27436

Neat! So, when you say, doesnt clear.... do you mean it wont be able to be installed, or does it have some sort of failure to work once installed?

Posted: 10/21/2004 6:52:00 AM EDT

[#10]

Installation works fine. The problem occurs after installation.

As the trigger is squeezed, the section under the arrow travels upwards and hits the selector, even with the selector in the FIRE position. The selector impedes further upward travel and the hammer cannot disengage the sear. The result: once the charging handle is pulled and the hammer is back, the rifle cannot be fired.

The triggers that gave me problems were both large pin types for Colt rifles.

Posted: 10/22/2004 8:05:22 AM EDT

[#11]

I'm sitting here looking at the RRA trigger set. In the hole for the hammer pin, there is a small wire (to keep pin in place?)
When I install the hammer pin does this wire lift out of the way as the pin drives past? The new hammer pin doesn't have a bevel on either end, I'm assuming when I begin to drive the pin thru, it'll want to hang there, when it hangs do I tap it on thru with force?
I wanted to ask before I end up with a gorilla build (If it don't fit MAKE it fit Thanks

Posted: 10/22/2004 8:24:09 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
I'm sitting here looking at the RRA trigger set. In the hole for the hammer pin, there is a small wire (to keep pin in place?)
When I install the hammer pin does this wire lift out of the way as the pin drives past? The new hammer pin doesn't have a bevel on either end, I'm assuming when I begin to drive the pin thru, it'll want to hang there, when it hangs do I tap it on thru with force?
I wanted to ask before I end up with a gorilla build (If it don't fit MAKE it fit )
Thanks

Yes, thats the "J pin" and holds the hammer pin in place. It easily pops out of the way when tapping the pin in, and does not require much force.

Posted: 10/22/2004 12:00:18 PM EDT

[#13]

Saw a neat Helpful Hint the other day, wish I could remember where so I could give the credit:

When ready to install the trigger-sear group, use the safety detent to hold them together. (place the safety detent into the hole where the retaining pin will eventually go, this holds them together in proper orientation) Place the combined unit into the lower and use the trigger retaining pin to drive out the safety detent. All installed.

Is that clear? Works really well.

Posted: 11/10/2004 4:17:15 PM EDT

[#14]

I just received a new RRA 2-stage trigger group. The holes are slightly out of alignment on my Grizzly (LAR) lower. Has anyone ever encountered this before?

TIA

Posted: 11/10/2004 5:48:50 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
I just received a new RRA 2-stage trigger group. The holes are slightly out of alignment on my Grizzly (LAR) lower. Has anyone ever encountered this before?

What does "out of alignment" mean? Be more specific.... What exactly is the problem?

Posted: 11/10/2004 5:58:20 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I just received a new RRA 2-stage trigger group. The holes are slightly out of alignment on my Grizzly (LAR) lower. Has anyone ever encountered this before?

What does "out of alignment" mean? Be more specific.... What exactly is the problem?

When I get the RRA trigger into position, the hole in the trigger is not aligned with the hole in the lower. The trigger needs to go further down into the lower. It is clearly visible looking through the hole in the lower. THink of it as this: take two circles and superimpose one atop the other. All you see is one circle. Move one of them upwards a tad and that's what I see looking through the hole. Not by much, but enough to prevent the pin from going through.

The Griz lower ("Multi-Caliber" and "Pistol" marked - I got a blue card for it!) is very nice. Fits perfectly onto my FN upper. All the standard lower parts went in smoothly without a hitch. I installed the stock trigger group in about 2 minutes - no prob at all.

Posted: 11/10/2004 6:17:42 PM EDT

[#17]

Hmmm, and you are sure that it is not hanging up on the safety selector, or the springs are not hanging and getting in the way? Might try removing the trigger spring and safety and see if the problem still exists.... and where you might have metal contact.

Posted: 11/10/2004 6:25:24 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Hmmm, and you are sure that it is not hanging up on the safety selector, or the springs are not hanging and getting in the way? Might try removing the trigger spring and safety and see if the problem still exists.... and where you might have metal contact.

Good idea. I'll give that a try and report back. Thanks again for your advice.

Posted: 11/10/2004 6:28:52 PM EDT

[#19]

Good job FALARAK. I did my Accuracy Speaks single stage the same way.

Posted: 11/11/2004 8:53:44 AM EDT

[#20]

Can this be tacked to the top of the build section?

Posted: 11/11/2004 4:27:18 PM EDT

[#21]

Ok - here's what I found. I took out the stock hammer and trigger. I removed the spring from the RRA trigger and the holes lined up with plenty of wiggle room. I put the RRA spring back on and no go. No matter what I did, those holes were would not line up. So I compared the two springs (stock vs RRA) and the RRA one was a little thicker wire. I didn't mike them. I took the stock spring and put it on the RRA trigger and it all went in nicely. The RRA hammer was no problem.

The spring sits against the bottom of the receiver and the little bit of extra diameter on the RRA spring wouldn't let the trigger sit low enough for it's hole to line up with those in the receiver.

Posted: 11/11/2004 4:36:24 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Ok - here's what I found. I took out the stock hammer and trigger. I removed the spring from the RRA trigger and the holes lined up with plenty of wiggle room. I put the RRA spring back on and no go. No matter what I did, those holes were would not line up. So I compared the two springs (stock vs RRA) and the RRA one was a little thicker wire. I didn't mike them. I took the stock spring and put it on the RRA trigger and it all went in nicely. The RRA hammer was no problem.

The spring sits against the bottom of the receiver and the little bit of extra diameter on the RRA spring wouldn't let the trigger sit low enough for it's hole to line up with those in the receiver.

Im not gonna say this is bad.... but I would recommend againt doing that. Trigger spring tension is designed to work with hammer spring tension.... and having too light a trigger spring can make an unsafe weapon. I think you would probably be ok, but just understand the risks.

As far as what you found out.... I have seen several RRA triggers hard to install, simply because the trigger spring ends need to be curved just a tad more (only at the very end of the wire!!!) because when you go to install them, they will hang up on the receiver and not slide all the way forward. It doesnt have to do with the size of the wire, just the sharp end of the spring hangs up when you try to install it. This is especially true of WOA tuned triggers, because those guys bend the trigger spring to be heavier (first stage) and this points the spring down. I had a hell of a time getting my WOA trigger installed until I figured out what was happening, and just use a tiny screwdriver to pop the spring legs forward when I installed it.

Posted: 11/11/2004 4:51:50 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Im not gonna say this is bad.... but I would recommend againt doing that. Trigger spring tension is designed to work with hammer spring tension.... and having too light a trigger spring can make an unsafe weapon. I think you would probably be ok, but just understand the risks.

As far as what you found out.... I have seen several RRA triggers hard to install, simply because the trigger spring ends need to be curved just a tad more (only at the very end of the wire!!!) because when you go to install them, they will hang up on the receiver and not slide all the way forward. It doesnt have to do with the size of the wire, just the sharp end of the spring hangs up when you try to install it. This is especially true of WOA tuned triggers, because those guys bend the trigger spring to be heavier (first stage) and this points the spring down. I had a hell of a time getting my WOA trigger installed until I figured out what was happening, and just use a tiny screwdriver to pop the spring legs forward when I installed it.

Hmm . . . I should look at all this again, I think. I don't like that it might be a bad thing. More to come . . .

Posted: 11/11/2004 5:23:50 PM EDT

[#24]

It's me. I didn't have the spring on the trigger properly. It was strictly luck that had me get it on there properly the one time it did go in. The center portion of the spring was not fully upward into the trigger.

I miked (digital Mitutoyo 6" calipers) both springs and they are identical. About .0350" thick each. Side-by-side comparison yielded no difference. It was all me.

Idiot Alert.

Posted: 11/11/2004 5:25:35 PM EDT

[#25]

Have White Oak tune it!
Much better than stock, second to a Jewell 2-stage

Posted: 11/11/2004 5:44:50 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Have White Oak tune it!
Much better than stock, second to a Jewell 2-stage

I have shot Jewels and WOA tuned RRA's.... and personally, I wasnt that impressed with the WOA. Too heavy first stage.... NOTHING near as sweet as a Jewel, to me.

Posted: 11/25/2004 11:52:42 PM EDT

[#27]

I have shot Jewels and WOA tuned RRA's.... and personally, I wasnt that impressed with the WOA. Too heavy first stage.... NOTHING near as sweet as a Jewel, to me.

You need to let John know how you want the trigger set up. He is mostly setting them up for Service Rifle Competitors that usually like them with more of the weight bias on the first stage (so that just a tad more pressure on the 2nd stage will break the shot), but can easily set them up for nearly any other preference within reason.

I have a Jewell and have played with a bunch of others and find the opposite to you. In my experience, they're typically not nearly as consistent in feel from pull to pull. Plus half of them had mush that wouldn't tune out (my guess was it was due to the slop in the disconnector/trigger boss fit.) I am a self admitted trigger freak and like crispy, consistent triggers, so the above comments may not be relevant to all.

Perhaps you can convince John H to write the 2nd part to your great trigger installation guide. "How to Tune the RRA Trigger" where he could cover stoning the appropriate surfaces and bending/replacing the appropriate springs to create the "feel" you want in the trigger.

Posted: 1/4/2005 7:35:19 AM EDT

[#28]

Now I'm really glad I chose the Chip McCormick trigger assembly! Drive out a couple of pins, drop in the new trigger assembly, drive in new pins, and you're finished. Total time: 10 minutes.

Posted: 1/4/2005 12:04:06 PM EDT

[#29]

now I'm thinking I should get a new trigger, hmmmm

Posted: 1/18/2005 2:39:59 PM EDT

[#30]

Just did this following these instructions and it took all of about 5 minutes. Big thanks!

Posted: 1/31/2005 11:01:19 AM EDT

[#31]

Hi on rr match trigger can you feel first stage at all my trigger has about over 1/8 play till it hits second stage and it appears that it doesnt touch first stage and does disconnector touch hammer catch slightly when you pull trigger

Posted: 1/31/2005 12:11:42 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Hi on rr match trigger can you feel first stage at all my trigger has about over 1/8 play till it hits second stage and it appears that it doesnt touch first stage and does disconnector touch hammer catch slightly when you pull trigger

You got it.

The 1/8" take up is the first stage. It is light, but definied.... as in the trigger will spring back fully if you dont pull it all the way through.

The second stage is *created* by the disconnector pressing against the hammer.... until the hammer releases. This engagement is very short, by design.

Posted: 2/2/2005 5:08:47 PM EDT

[#33]

Can a RRA 2 stage be tuned by WOA or anyone else to 3lbs or less ?

Posted: 2/3/2005 5:39:30 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Can a RRA 2 stage be tuned by WOA or anyone else to 3lbs or less ?

I do not think that it is possible with the current RRA NM parts set.
Tommy

Posted: 2/5/2005 10:49:08 PM EDT

[#35]

Hello,
I'm a newbie, I have a bushie lower that I've had for ages, since about 1991, and now I'm finally gonna build a rifle, I'm still mulling my options but I'm a lefty so I'm gonna install an ambidextrous safety, I was just wondering if this type of safety will work with the above referenced triggers, jewell, RRA and mcCormick? Thanks for any help or insight.

Posted: 2/5/2005 10:52:12 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Hello,
I'm a newbie, I have a bushie lower that I've had for ages, since about 1991, and now I'm finally gonna build a rifle, I'm still mulling my options but I'm a lefty so I'm gonna install an ambidextrous safety, I was just wondering if this type of safety will work with the above referenced triggers, jewell, RRA and mcCormick? Thanks for any help or insight.

Yes. Ambi safeties are the same internally, they just add a part to the right side of the weapon.

I too am a lefty... I put an ambi safety on mine, and I hate it. If it was *only* on the right side it would be great.... but now when I use my thumb to activate it, the lever on the other side hits my hand. I am just going back to adapting to use the standard safety.

Posted: 2/6/2005 1:46:21 PM EDT

[#37]

Thanks for the insight Falarak, something to consider, also thanks for the great thread w/ clear pictures.

Posted: 2/11/2005 3:18:25 PM EDT

[#38]

I just installed two RRA two stage trigs. Total time less than 20 minutes. Brownell's wholesale $73.33 each. Pic:

Edit to say thanks for the how-to post. Anyone can do this simple install. In my PWA lower, the trig dropped right in under the safety selector, the Armalite was a touch tighter, but eased in. The grease on the sear and disconnector is very important!!! FYI, it appears that it does not matter which direction the pin detents go, correct me if I am wrong, before my rifle falls apart.

Posted: 2/12/2005 1:45:01 AM EDT

[#39]

Tuning out the 2nd stage creep. Same method for the RRA.
If you take too much or just lose 2nd stage from wear, you will have to take off the tail of the RRA disconnector to allow it too pivot forward more to contact hammer hook.