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Posted: 12/11/2003 4:31:23 AM EDT
[#1]
No expert here, but I've had better luck with a lighter hammer. It gives more "hammerspeed" or whatever and doesn't try to "push" the pins out.
What kind of a punch were you using that was hard enough to mushroom the pins? I ruined several punches getting those damn things out and still haven't found the "right" punch. |
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Posted: 12/11/2003 4:55:14 AM EDT
[#2]
I have found that when driving out such items you need to use a big hammer and heavy blows. Pecking at it will surely mushroom the heads without driving the pin out. I have only removed the tower from one rifle using taper pins and other than making sure you drive them out in the correct direction, a proper sized punch and a heavy hammer was all it took on mine. They were out in two blows on the Colt.
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Posted: 12/11/2003 4:55:20 AM EDT
[#3]
Damn that sucks.
it should not have been that hard. i am thinking the factory installed pins that were oversized and out of spec. they pressed them in and all you could do was tear it up getting them out. |
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Posted: 12/11/2003 4:58:20 AM EDT
[#4]
Can't remember the brand name, but I was using some plain old pin punches. The punches themselves ended up mushrooming slightly and required a light stroke of a file to take off the rough endges around the head. After using these punches for a few strong hits, I switched to a nail punch. I think that made it even worse.
Good thought regarding the hammer though. Thanks for the input. |
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Posted: 12/11/2003 5:01:36 AM EDT
[#5]
I'll post a picture later tonight of the sight tower (or what's left of it). I'm also wondering if those pins were oversized or something. My buddy who was helping me has removed sight towers from several rifles and said he's never seen any of them that tight.
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Posted: 12/11/2003 6:01:00 AM EDT
[#6]
If I recall you have to drive them out from the Left side, the left being opposite the ejection port. Brownells sells a punch for these pins, it has a slight cup. I have seen Locktite used so warming with a heatgun is neccessary in those cases. HTH
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Posted: 12/11/2003 6:03:32 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: If I recall you have to drive them out from the Left side, the left being opposite the ejection port. [red]Brownells sells a punch for these pins, it has a slight cup.[/red] HTH Thanks! That's what I need. I was told some guys used a punch with a cup or indention to it. I think that will help in the future. Yes, the pins were tapered with the small part on the left. |
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Posted: 12/11/2003 11:00:19 AM EDT
[#8]
to fix the aftermath, look for:
Armalite cross-bolt mounted front sight base: part # EU0240MPKIT $43.50 retail. or Fulton Armory set-screw front sight base, located here [url]fulton-armory.com[/url]: FA-AR-300-297 Front Sight Base, Forged, PowerWedge w/set screws, Pre-ban, w/bayo lug $60. Both look just like A2, but are much less hassle to move. edited to add: DPMS' solution is oversize taper pins: [url]dpmsinc.com[/url] parts BL-18 & FS-06L |
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Posted: 12/11/2003 11:13:57 AM EDT
[#9]
Thanks, buddy. I'll check them out.
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Posted: 12/11/2003 11:48:09 AM EDT
[#10]
This seems to be almost normal for BM front sights/barrels. You might want to try some penetrating oil/lube next time. People have recommended Kroil (sp?), but I've never tried it. Let it seep in for a good 1/2 hour. Good old WD40 seemed to work for me. (or it might have been all the swearing and 20 minutes of hammer blows.)
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Posted: 12/11/2003 2:06:02 PM EDT
[#11]
Yea, I'm starting to hear a lot about Kroil.
It looks like it isn't exactly so easy to just throw another front sight base on this rifle and have the holes line up correctly. Looks like I'll be buying a gas block that attaches with set screws. The one I'm leaning towards is made by Armalite. I'll post more info when I figure this all out. |
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Posted: 12/11/2003 3:57:33 PM EDT
[#12]
Bookhound, sorry for your frustration. I think I know what may have made it so difficult.
There was a thread about 6 weeks ago discussing mil-spec and how Bushie barrels are not true mil-spec according to Tweak. The BFI rep tried to tell Tweak he was wrong, but Tweak was right. Mil-spec calls for the barrel to be Phoshated then the front sight tower installed. Bushmaster installs the front sight tower, THEN phosphate treats the assembly. I would imagine those chemicals will tend to bind up the taper pins somewhat, and as you found, they are not hard enough to resist peening when "push comes to shove". Next time get a Colt, they are done like the spec says. |
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Posted: 12/11/2003 5:38:21 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: I had the front sight braced on some wood on top of a workbench. A friend held the barrel firmly. The next time secure the sight upside down on a heavy vise. When holding it on wood, much of the impact is absorbed by the wood. On a vise you have a firm setup and all the energy of the blow is absorbed by the pin. |
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Posted: 12/11/2003 6:17:58 PM EDT
[#14]
The first Bushy I tried to take apart ended with exactly the same results.
One the second one, I laid the FBS and the barrel on a piece of steel that had 2 layers of duct tape and a towel on top. The steel was sitting right on the concrete floor. The barrel was fully supported so it won't move around, with just the pin I was driving out hanging over. I used a 3 pound hammer and a short punch. WHAM!!! on the first pin... it came right out. The punch was kinda hard to get out though...[B)] The second pin was removed without the punch getting stuck. I was wondering about the barrel not being parked under the FSB. Man, I really like the site.[>]:)] |
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Posted: 12/11/2003 7:43:57 PM EDT
[#15]
PICS PLEASE ? ... also .. what about pressing the pins out with a home made press .. aka .. large bench vise ? ... any luck there ? ..
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Posted: 12/11/2003 8:42:24 PM EDT
[#16]
The punch end doesn't have to be the same size as the taper pin end, it can be much larger since you only need to get the pin started, then light tapping with a smaller punch will push it the rest of the way out. I have only knocked taper pins out once on a Colt FSB. I used a 3/8" brass punch with a 1 lb hammer to get the pins moving (took about 5 blows each) and then a smaller steel punch to get them the rest of the way out of the upper.
I think the key as others have mentioned is to have the FSB resting on a solid surface, have a heavy enough hammer, and have a punch that is softer than the taper pin. |
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Posted: 12/11/2003 9:31:17 PM EDT
[#17]
Why didnt you just drill them out if the pins were destroyed?
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Posted: 12/12/2003 3:32:18 AM EDT
[#18]
I just took off a front sight last night using my brownells taper pin starter #827-530-320 and a moderate size hammer. The heads don't mushroom with this tool.
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Posted: 12/12/2003 3:34:04 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Why didnt you just drill them out if the pins were destroyed? I was afraid the drill might hit the channel cut in the barrel for the pins. I was trying to do whatever I could to not screw up the barrel. I took some pictures last night, but got distracted by some other stuff. I'll post them later today for sure. |
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Posted: 12/12/2003 9:16:07 AM EDT
[#20]
A starter punch and a drill are my friends in cases like these.
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Posted: 12/12/2003 2:41:49 PM EDT
[#21]
I had the same problem with bushy barrels...the last barrel I got was from RRA with a removable gas block.
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Posted: 12/12/2003 4:39:23 PM EDT
[#22]
Here's the remains of the sight assembly.
[img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=20495[/img] |
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Posted: 12/12/2003 4:43:29 PM EDT
[#23]
And one more pic:
[img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=20496[/img] |
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Posted: 12/13/2003 3:39:56 AM EDT
[#24]
Yeah..i don't think that front sight can be fixed.
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Posted: 12/13/2003 6:28:57 AM EDT
[#25]
slap it back on there with some jb weld. good as new.
sorry for your luck. i have seen some pins that looked tapered and may only be punched out in one direction. |
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Posted: 12/13/2003 10:58:45 AM EDT
[#26]
The pins were tapered and we were hitting them on the correct (left) side. I think the biggest problem was not having the sight base/barrel braced on a solid surface well enough. Oh well, live and learn.
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Posted: 12/20/2003 11:22:58 PM EDT
[#27]
While in the process of switching to the FIRSH on two rifles, both with Bushy barrels, I found the following technique very easily removed the pins, and actually pressed them back in as well.
Tools you will need: 1. A solid bench vice with a mouth that opens about 6 inches 2. An assortment of small but wellmade sockets 3. Several small hex head bits that you would use in a 1/4 driver socket. Technique: First figure out which end of the pin will be pushed and which will be "received". On the side where the pin will be coming out, place the smallest possible socket that will sourround the pin, without impeeding its travel. next with a 1/4 inch socket and a hex bit that is just smaller than the diameter of the pin, line the hex bit on the side of the pin to be pushed on, and the empty socket on the other. It helps to have an extra set of hands as you line all this up in the center of your vice. Begin closing the vice on the assembly. Once it is all squred up in your home made press, all it should take is a few turns on the vise bar / and at most a little coaxing from a helper bar to press out your pin. I found that it did such little damage to the pin that I was able to reverse the operation when I had to replace the gasblock. Feel free to improve upon this idea, but it worked really well for me! Good luck FC |
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Posted: 12/21/2003 12:07:06 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: [url]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=20496[/url] Ah, there's part of the problem. The taper pin holes are too far into the barrel. They should be no more than half diameter into the steel. The taper pin holes pictured are more than 1/2D. |
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Posted: 12/21/2003 12:13:42 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: The BFI rep tried to tell Tweak he was wrong, but Tweak was right. Yeah, but he got me on the bolt carrier material no thanks to my instructor and/or poor note taking.[:(] I use an 8 oz ball peen and a 3" long 1/4" diameter piece of tool steel as a starter punch. If the term "starter punch" doesn't sound familiar I suggest a Google search. [:)] I support the offside of the barrel on a 1/2"X3"X5" block of high density polyethylene that sits directly on my bench. The only times I have had trouble is when the pins (confirmed in the QC shop) were not properly hardened. |
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Posted: 12/21/2003 2:23:45 PM EDT
[#30]
Well, Armalite to the rescue. I got this sight base from Armalite. It was very easy to install (uses two screws under the barrel). So far, it seems like it will do the job. Seems very solid/tight to the barrel.
[img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=20788[/img] |
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Posted: 12/21/2003 2:56:30 PM EDT
[#31]
For firecop45acp:
I feel a special tool is in order, similiar to a front sight post adjuster you may use on a dovetail front sight post. I've got a few ideas swirling around in my head. I will work on this and let the people here know if I can get a functional, one hand operated tool. Thanks for the idea. |
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Posted: 12/22/2003 5:53:36 AM EDT
[#32]
By all means, Please take the idea and run with it, ya might even make some money off it! Let me know what you come up with!
FC |
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Posted: 12/28/2003 12:47:00 PM EDT
[#33]
The exact same thing happened to me this weekend when installing a FF RAS and PRI front sight.
Rear pin came out no problem. Front pin went fubar by mushrooming. Thank god for Dremel tools (and a 6" wheel grinder). I've removed front sights before, and normally you only need a solid surface, vise clamp, punch, heavy hammer, and a few serious blows to dislodge the taper pins. I hold the punch with a pair of vice grips so I never have to worry about smashed fingers or hands. This time around did not work. [V] |
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Posted: 12/28/2003 2:00:25 PM EDT
[#34]
Those Bushys can be a bitch, been there. I have been wanting a press for the shop, and think one of these would make jobs as above much easier. This thread made me start shopping around.
[img]http://mccoolsgarage.com/cgi-bin/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/36-980.jpg[/img] [url]http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=4006970&storeId=6970&langId=-1&productId=21029[/url] |
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Posted: 12/28/2003 3:18:14 PM EDT
[#35]
BallisticTip, glad my pain can help you in some small way. [:D]
So, FALbert, did your front sight assembly look anything remotely as bad as mine? Also, how do you like the FF RAS? All things considered, my Daniel Defense tube was worth the pain. |
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Posted: 12/29/2003 1:24:58 PM EDT
[#36]
Hey bookhound,
How much did that run you (the bolt on tower front site) and what was the shipping time. Im going to put a free float on mine and I rather have the parts in hand then go running around looking after the fact. Also Im looking to put an A3 upper on it and sell the A2, is that something you could help me out with? Just kicking ideas in my head as of now. Ill be back late on the 2nd. Going home for New Years! Im going to try to make the shoot but I will have to see! Thanks in Advance |
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Posted: 12/29/2003 1:46:07 PM EDT
[#37]
The Armalite sight base was $43.50, plus shipping. They had it to me in two days (I must have gotten real lucky on the shipping). The Armalite guys were great help, knowledgeable and friendly.
However, after this fiasco, I bought a special punch for removing the tapper pins, Kroil and a different hammer from Brownell's. I also now have a more solid platform for the barrel. Hopefully we won't need to replace your sight base. I'd love to help you out with the project. Have a good New Year and we'll talk soon. |
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Posted: 12/29/2003 3:22:22 PM EDT
[#38]
what rear site you you run on your A3 upper to work with your front site?
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Posted: 12/29/2003 3:41:57 PM EDT
[#39]
I've got a Bushmaster flip-up BUIS on that rifle. I've got an ARMS 40 on another rifle and they both work fine.
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Posted: 12/29/2003 3:57:26 PM EDT
[#40]
Thank you sir!
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Posted: 12/29/2003 8:36:57 PM EDT
[#41]
So, FALbert, did your front sight assembly look anything remotely as bad as mine? Also, how do you like the FF RAS? All things considered, my Daniel Defense tube was worth the pain. My front sight was wasted like yours. I am not losing sleep over it as I was not planning on reusing it. The FF RAS went together fairly easily. I'm sure the DD is a fine unit too. I just have a preference for KAC. |
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Posted: 12/30/2003 9:54:42 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Yeah..i don't think that front sight can be fixed. lmao! |
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Posted: 1/5/2004 12:23:45 AM EDT
[#43]
How about scaling up a bicycle chain pin pusher?
You might even be able to do it with basic hand tools and a drill press. Block of metal, cut a groove to fit/straddle on both sides, hacksaw and files can do this. Make the left side slightly deeper than pin length. Drill through slightly larger than pin diameter. On left side drill larger and tap for a standard bolt size. Turn threaded end of the bolt down to slightly under pin diameter. Probably would be best to make the pin pusher on the bolt about 1/16th or so. Just enough to get the pin started. thread it in and trun bolt head with wrench. You could probably make two pusher bolts one to get it started and one lonenough to finish and push all the way through. The Starter bolt extension would probably have to be short because you'ld probably bend and brake a long one. How you turn it down is problematic. You can chuck in some drills or drill presses but many can't handle the side stress. |
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