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Posted: 7/30/2009 7:01:23 AM EDT
[#1]
....and so it begins...
edited to add something usefull......I have some Larue mounts and they are top notch....it seems you know they are top notch.....is that $26 in your pocket worth more to you than the confidence you will have in your gear? |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 7:06:44 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
....and so it begins... My spending is out of hand... I just picked up 2 Primary Arms clone sites but 2 weeks ago. Whoever said "you'll buy twice" was right!!! I decided to go for a real Aimpoint yesterday as I got a great price on it (under $400 for a CompML3) and was told that pricing was going to increase. Now, of course, I need a mount. Jesus... Anyone want to buy a Primary Arms CompML4? (beautiful site, actually... High quality, but I want a "real" one, also). I am going to keep the clone Primary Arms ML3 (multi reticle) I bought because I just love it and it's such a great value. But... I'm becoming a bit of a prude. Even though I'm pretty much just a businessman who likes to shoot black guns and go and do sporting clays (I had to have the $3200 Beretta Silver Pigeon V!!, too). Cheers, guys. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 7:08:10 AM EDT
[#3]
They're both good mounts. I prefer the LT but I'd have no problems using an ADM.
Here's a review I wrote. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=421924 |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 7:11:11 AM EDT
[#4]
If you decided to go for a real Aimpoint, get the best mount you can for it. Go with the LaRue. You won't regret it.
(I tried looking for the old LaRue vs ADM thread from the LaRue section, but couldn't find it. Maybe someone else can find it for you...) |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 7:23:18 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
If you decided to go for a real Aimpoint, get the best mount you can for it. Go with the LaRue. You won't regret it. (I tried looking for the old LaRue vs ADM thread from the LaRue section, but couldn't find it. Maybe someone else can find it for you...) Cheers!! If I buy the ADM, I would probably buy the LaRue a week later!! I have an Eotech 511, 3X magnifier, Primary Arms Comp3 (and Comp4), Aimpoint Comp ML3, DPMS Detachable rear site. Here's my setups... I'm looking to see how to best configure... I'm thinking RRA Lower/LMT 16" Carbine upper/YHM comp/NM 2 stage/6 pos. stock/Magpul MOE HGs - Detachable rear site + CompML3 w/LaRue Cowitness RRA Lower/M&A 20" bull barrel upper/A2 stock/NM 2 stage - 3X magnifier cowitness with Primary Arms Comp3 clone (cantilever mount) Stag Lower/Stag 16" Carbine upper/YHM comp/Magpul CTR/Magpul MOE/single stage - Eotech 511. What do you guys think? |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 7:29:43 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
If you decided to go for a real Aimpoint, get the best mount you can for it. Go with the LaRue. You won't regret it. (I tried looking for the old LaRue vs ADM thread from the LaRue section, but couldn't find it. Maybe someone else can find it for you...) Operative word being "old". Why even bring this up? ADM has fixed any issues they "may" have had, and Larues "old" thread was just him acting childish over competition. I'ts America and we have (or used to before the current administration) a capitalist market. Deal with it Larue. That thread was just chock full of Mark Larue acting like a baby and really has nothing to do with the current concerns (of which there aren't any). Don't get me wrong though. Larue makes a damn fine product (which is why I'm so confused about Marks behavior in this situation as his products really do speak for themselves), but i'd go with ADM just for the simple fact that I won't fund the paycheck of a guy who acts like Mark Larue does on an open forum. He really reminds me of toad baily sometimes which, if you're unfamiliar with the reference, is NOT a good thing. Conclusion, Both ADM and Larue make good product. I'd say that when comparing you get 6 of one and a half dozen of the other. I personally prefer the asthetics of Larue (the angles on ADM kinda suck), but in the end the behavior of the owner of Larue drives my principles and I steer towards ADM. YMMV. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 7:51:22 AM EDT
[#7]
I go larue.
unparalleled support. unparalleled quality. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 7:51:47 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you decided to go for a real Aimpoint, get the best mount you can for it. Go with the LaRue. You won't regret it. (I tried looking for the old LaRue vs ADM thread from the LaRue section, but couldn't find it. Maybe someone else can find it for you...) Operative word being "old". Why even bring this up? ADM has fixed any issues they "may" have had, and Larues "old" thread was just him acting childish over competition. I'ts America and we have (or used to before the current administration) a capitalist market. Deal with it Larue. That thread was just chock full of Mark Larue acting like a baby and really has nothing to do with the current concerns (of which there aren't any). Don't get me wrong though. Larue makes a damn fine product (which is why I'm so confused about Marks behavior in this situation as his products really do speak for themselves), but i'd go with ADM just for the simple fact that I won't fund the paycheck of a guy who acts like Mark Larue does on an open forum. He really reminds me of toad baily sometimes which, if you're unfamiliar with the reference, is NOT a good thing. Conclusion, Both ADM and Larue make good product. I'd say that when comparing you get 6 of one and a half dozen of the other. I personally prefer the asthetics of Larue (the angles on ADM kinda suck), but in the end the behavior of the owner of Larue drives my principles and I steer towards ADM. YMMV. There was a bit more to that thread than that, but I digress. My point was that I'd rather spend my money with somebody who innovates, rather than copies. And for all of the antics ML shows in these forums, his customer service is second-to-none. Let alone the fact that, as you said, his products speak for themselves. OP, if you've never owned a LaRue product, I'd go ahead and just buy the LaRue. Try them out. Once you've got it in your hand, I highly doubt you'll be thinking about the $26 difference. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 7:52:20 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Don't get me wrong though. Larue makes a damn fine product (which is why I'm so confused about Marks behavior in this situation as his products really do speak for themselves), but i'd go with ADM just for the simple fact that I won't fund the paycheck of a guy who acts like Mark Larue does on an open forum. He really reminds me of toad baily sometimes which, if you're unfamiliar with the reference, is NOT a good thing. Comparing Mark to Todd tells us more about you than him. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 8:01:47 AM EDT
[#10]
American who? ?
never heard of them 297 |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 8:08:46 AM EDT
[#11]
ADM or LaRue will serve the purpose just fine. So will the Aimpoint QRP mount, the KAC mount, the GG&G, etc. In a pinch you could use a 30mm Badger ring to mount it too.
I'm just about over my infatuation with QD optics mounts. The reality is my old GG&G cantilever mount was a perfect mount for keeping my Aimpoint rock solid on the carbine. I've seen broken, and broken them myself, ARMS levers so I bypass them completely. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 8:13:02 AM EDT
[#12]
My point was that I'd rather spend my money with somebody who innovates, rather than copies
Yup. Innovation over immitation. For $26.00 you'll have to guess if you bought the right product or not. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 8:49:34 AM EDT
[#13]
I've never witnessed a principal American Defense representative show up here and stick his neck out,
whether it was "acting like a baby" or fixing problems, or supporting the "the cause", or bullshitting with his customers, or giving $1000 of free shit away every single month... Just sayin. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 8:54:20 AM EDT
[#14]
+1 for LaRue, you just can't go wrong with 'em.
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Posted: 7/30/2009 9:01:52 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
I've never witnessed a principal American Defense representative show up here and stick his neck out, whether it was "acting like a baby" or fixing problems, or supporting the "the cause", or bullshitting with his customers, or giving $1000 of free shit away every single month... Just sayin. Well...They applied to be on the site, but they were turned down. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 9:06:31 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
I've never witnessed a principal American Defense representative show up here and stick his neck out, whether it was "acting like a baby" or fixing problems, or supporting the "the cause", or bullshitting with his customers, or giving $1000 of free shit away every single month... Just sayin. +1 I forgot to mention all that LaRue does for our trrops, and the fact that he gives away a Stealth upper along with a bunch of other gear to a Team member every month. Some people may not like the way he acts, but LaRue knows how to treat his customers, and potential customers right. All of that aside, let's not forget the fact that his products stand on their own. Every now and then a thread pops up looking for pictures of broken LaRue gear, and the best anyone can come up with is a shattered FUG that was obviously intentionally destroyed. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 9:10:11 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
My point was that I'd rather spend my money with somebody who innovates, rather than copies
Yup. Innovation over immitation. For $26.00 you'll have to guess if you bought the right product or not. This. Plus if you get a Larue freebie hat its a awesome bonus |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 9:33:34 AM EDT
[#18]
AGNTSA
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Posted: 7/30/2009 9:37:51 AM EDT
[#19]
My optics are mounted using LaRue mounts.
His customer service is outstanding, the hats and dillos are cool too 
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Posted: 7/30/2009 10:56:29 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've never witnessed a principal American Defense representative show up here and stick his neck out, whether it was "acting like a baby" or fixing problems, or supporting the "the cause", or bullshitting with his customers, or giving $1000 of free shit away every single month... Just sayin. Well...They applied to be on the site, but they were turned down. Who turned them down? Also, which one of the mystery patent holders would step up and represent the product with his good name? |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 11:10:06 AM EDT
[#21]
"If LaRue is an option, then LaRue is the answer."
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Posted: 7/30/2009 11:13:40 AM EDT
[#22]
I vote LaRue... But I'm one of the fanboys so I will add this.......
LaRue gives you thirty days to decide if you like thier products. If you don't you can send it back and get a refund. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 11:21:54 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've never witnessed a principal American Defense representative show up here and stick his neck out, whether it was "acting like a baby" or fixing problems, or supporting the "the cause", or bullshitting with his customers, or giving $1000 of free shit away every single month... Just sayin. Well...They applied to be on the site, but they were turned down. Who turned them down? Also, which one of the mystery patent holders would step up and represent the product with his good name? Aimless, because he felt that they were too similar to LT stuff. As I explained in my comparison, Eric Kincel of Vltor is on the patent, but he was a technical advisor only, and didn't receive any $$$ for his advice. He received a prototype mount and went to ADM with suggestions. They blew him off, then started having problems with their Gen 1 stuff. They realized his suggestions were good ideas and called him back. Hence, ADM Gen 2. And his name on the patent. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 11:22:31 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
............... which one of the mystery patent holders would step up and represent the product with his good name?....... +1 maybe its the one that was just helping out, but not really a partner. or the manufacturer whose not really another manufacturer. or the cook in the library with the candlesticks! |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 11:26:56 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
............... which one of the mystery patent holders would step up and represent the product with his good name?....... +1 maybe its the one that was just helping out, but not really a partner. or the manufacturer whose not really another manufacturer. or the cook in the library with the candlesticks! I explained it above. You can believe what you want, but it's the truth. He offered some unsolicited advice and was initially rejected. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 11:39:24 AM EDT
[#26]
Buy a KAC mount and bypass the internet BS.
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Posted: 7/30/2009 11:46:17 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
............... which one of the mystery patent holders would step up and represent the product with his good name?....... +1 maybe its the one that was just helping out, but not really a partner. or the manufacturer whose not really another manufacturer. or the cook in the library with the candlesticks! I explained it above. You can believe what you want, but it's the truth. He offered some unsolicited advice and was initially rejected. I believe you, but my whole point is that none of those who ARE involved, have put themselves out there to represent the brand; to take the heat and the praise. I can understand why none of them have done this (aside from within a guaranteed friendly audience from another website(s) ). I can also understand why they were rejected - their designs, offerings, and even promotional material were very....eh...similar. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 11:51:40 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
............... which one of the mystery patent holders would step up and represent the product with his good name?....... +1 maybe its the one that was just helping out, but not really a partner. or the manufacturer whose not really another manufacturer. or the cook in the library with the candlesticks! I explained it above. You can believe what you want, but it's the truth. He offered some unsolicited advice and was initially rejected. He would've made just as much money saying: 'you know, this is really unethical at best, and I don't want to have anything to do with it.' |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 11:52:55 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Buy a KAC mount and bypass the internet BS. Can't go wrong with KAC, but holy hell are they expensive. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 12:55:54 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Can't go wrong with KAC, but holy hell are they expensive. Price you pay for avoiding internet drama. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 1:01:38 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Can't go wrong with KAC, but holy hell are they expensive. Price you pay for avoiding internet drama. Uncle Sam gave me mine, but then didn't want it back. So I kept it. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 1:02:08 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
............... which one of the mystery patent holders would step up and represent the product with his good name?....... +1 maybe its the one that was just helping out, but not really a partner. or the manufacturer whose not really another manufacturer. or the cook in the library with the candlesticks! I explained it above. You can believe what you want, but it's the truth. He offered some unsolicited advice and was initially rejected. I believe you, but my whole point is that none of those who ARE involved, have put themselves out there to represent the brand; to take the heat and the praise. I can understand why none of them have done this (aside from within a guaranteed friendly audience from another website(s) ). I can also understand why they were rejected - their designs, offerings, and even promotional material were very....eh...similar. Actually, Kincel doesn't like to be involved with internet forums, his view is that manufacturers should have no involvement and that the forums should be a place of discussion for consumers only. I know this because I heard him reject an offer from one of the Avilas to be a site sponsor at the NRA show. So there are other reasons for his non-availability here. He also doesn't want his employees posting online either. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 1:03:28 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
He would've made just as much money saying: 'you know, this is really unethical at best, and I don't want to have anything to do with it.' FWIW, he did advise them to make other changes to the ring design so as to be a little more different than LT. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 1:21:02 PM EDT
[#34]
If you look back to the early 1900's, you can find quick release mounts back then. Used mainly on African game rifles. Having said that, BOTH are quality mounts, flip a coin.
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Posted: 7/30/2009 2:01:09 PM EDT
[#35]
I have switched from ARMS to Larue due to the ability to adjust the larue to any rail.
That isn't an issue with ADM, but I would choose Larue simply because I have had excellent experiences with those products. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 2:37:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you decided to go for a real Aimpoint, get the best mount you can for it. Go with the LaRue. You won't regret it. (I tried looking for the old LaRue vs ADM thread from the LaRue section, but couldn't find it. Maybe someone else can find it for you...) Operative word being "old". Why even bring this up? ADM has fixed any issues they "may" have had, and Larues "old" thread was just him acting childish over competition. I'ts America and we have (or used to before the current administration) a capitalist market. Deal with it Larue. That thread was just chock full of Mark Larue acting like a baby and really has nothing to do with the current concerns (of which there aren't any). Don't get me wrong though. Larue makes a damn fine product (which is why I'm so confused about Marks behavior in this situation as his products really do speak for themselves), but i'd go with ADM just for the simple fact that I won't fund the paycheck of a guy who acts like Mark Larue does on an open forum. He really reminds me of toad baily sometimes which, if you're unfamiliar with the reference, is NOT a good thing. Conclusion, Both ADM and Larue make good product. I'd say that when comparing you get 6 of one and a half dozen of the other. I personally prefer the asthetics of Larue (the angles on ADM kinda suck), but in the end the behavior of the owner of Larue drives my principles and I steer towards ADM. YMMV. I agree 100%. I've said my part on the matter many times here, as have others. I will spend my money with ADM/GG7G/Bobro/etc, regardless of whether they are here or not. Aimless made his decision and that's that, even though ADM has brought a new mount out like GG&G, etc... He runs it as he sees fit, as would I, although if ADM had ran different ad photos I'm sure things would be different. Mark makes a great mount, but I won't recommend him because there are other companies that make equal mounts (QD or not) that do more than get the job done. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 2:42:22 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: Aimless made his decision and that's that, What does this have to do with anything? |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 2:46:01 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Aimless made his decision and that's that, What does this have to do with anything? About whether or not to allow ADM on the site as an advertiser/sponsor. Since people were complaining that they aren't around to talk with customers. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 3:12:20 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Aimless made his decision and that's that, What does this have to do with anything? About whether or not to allow ADM on the site as an advertiser/sponsor. Since people were complaining that they aren't around to talk with customers. Exactly. Hard to have a god repertoire with your customer base when you can't advertise on the biggest AR site on the internet. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 3:31:21 PM EDT
[#40]
I evaluate products based upon their performance, but also tend to reverse engineer the design to get a better understanding, since that is my nature. The politcal BS in this industry is far above my pay grade, so I try my best to avoid it.
LT stuff works really good, but so does the ARMS stuff that I have in existing inventory. I haven't found the need to try others, whether or not they have a presense on some random Internet forum either positive or negative. While feedback from users is generally a good thing, assuming that they are actually informed with firsthand knowledge, at some point one must decide for himself what works and what doesn't, rather than being a pure lemming |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 5:34:33 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Can't go wrong with KAC, but holy hell are they expensive. Price you pay for avoiding internet drama. 
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Posted: 7/30/2009 5:36:58 PM EDT
[#42]
Actually, Kincel doesn't like to be involved with internet forums, his view is that manufacturers should have no involvement and that the forums should be a place of discussion for consumers only.... So there are other reasons for his non-availability here. He also doesn't want his employees posting online either. that's definitely one smart option... nothing wrong with that. another one (it is a risk of course - see above!) is to totally engage the interweb ala mark. pros and cons to both. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 6:33:05 PM EDT
[#43]
I just got a bobro scope mount today. It's replacing my ADM mount (most likely throw another scope in it). Build quality is top notch and I love the auto adjusting lock.
I'll be buying another bobro for my aimpoint when the time comes. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 10:55:39 PM EDT
[#44]
I can not help but notice that no one has said a single bad thing about the LaRue equipment. Nearly every negative comment made is in regards to Mark's character.
Personally, if you choose not to buy LaRue products, that is no big deal; personal choice and all of that. But when you recommend someone away from those products becuase you, personally, don't like the man, that is not quite being fair. I will say that Mark rubs someone the wrong way. The man stands up for his products, and stands up to anyone he feels is not giving him or his products a fair shake. He take it very personally when he feels someone is trying to copy him. He does have principles about it; he started to market a product that was being received very favorably (a scope power lever, to quickly adjust magnification settings), but pulled it when he discovered someone else had made a similar design first. Maybe it is just an attitude thing, maybe it is a 'Texas thing,' but I actually respect Mark more because of what he does. |
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Posted: 7/30/2009 11:47:01 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Can't go wrong with KAC, but holy hell are they expensive. Price you pay for avoiding internet drama. What he said. |
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Posted: 7/31/2009 4:45:59 AM EDT
[#46]
Just bought a LT 129 on the EE for a very good price.
Thanks for all the feedback.... Not sure about all the drama.. 
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Posted: 7/31/2009 6:49:38 AM EDT
[#47]
Bobro
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Posted: 7/31/2009 7:11:26 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
I can not help but notice that no one has said a single bad thing about the LaRue equipment. Nearly every negative comment made is in regards to Mark's character. Personally, if you choose not to buy LaRue products, that is no big deal; personal choice and all of that. But when you recommend someone away from those products becuase you, personally, don't like the man, that is not quite being fair. I will say that Mark rubs someone the wrong way. The man stands up for his products, and stands up to anyone he feels is not giving him or his products a fair shake. He take it very personally when he feels someone is trying to copy him. He does have principles about it; he started to market a product that was being received very favorably (a scope power lever, to quickly adjust magnification settings), but pulled it when he discovered someone else had made a similar design first. Maybe it is just an attitude thing, maybe it is a 'Texas thing,' but I actually respect Mark more because of what he does. Mark doesn't just stand up for his products, he actively attacks people who disagree with him. I have never spoken ill of LaRue mounts or other products, and yet Mark has found it necessary on several occasions to insult me, my family, and belittle my military service. That's why I don't like the man. |
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Posted: 7/31/2009 7:19:00 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
<snip> Mark doesn't just stand up for his products, he actively attacks people who disagree with him. I have never spoken ill of LaRue mounts or other products, and yet Mark has found it necessary on several occasions to insult me, my family, and belittle my military service. That's why I don't like the man. The Stupid ... it burns. 
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Posted: 7/31/2009 7:28:49 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
... Probably shouldn't bring out the personal insults in the tech forums. |
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