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Posted: 11/2/2008 4:32:45 PM EDT
[#1]
No pics to share with you but the 1/3 co-witness is in the bottom one third of the optic picture. Works well IMHO especially with a fixed front sight. The Larue tall mount is very well made, locks on tightly and the repeatability when taken on and off is excellent. Just remember that when shooting close targets, <25 yards, your point of impact will be a tad low due to the difference between line of sight with the red dot and the barrel centerline.
stumo |
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Posted: 11/2/2008 5:46:18 PM EDT
[#2]
It has ZERO relation to the dot. The dot is ALWAYS on the top of your front sight post if your using the irons and can be anywhere if you are not with either mounting height. Lower 1/3 has to do with where the IRONS are in relation to the OPTIC TUBE. The irons will be in the lower third of the tube vs dead in the middle of the tube, blocking much of it. I am pretty sure this explantion is self explanatory and does not need a pic for you to understand.
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Posted: 11/2/2008 5:51:18 PM EDT
[#3]
Get the LaRue.
Lower 1/3 is optimal. |
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Posted: 11/2/2008 5:53:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Larue all the way
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Posted: 11/2/2008 6:36:22 PM EDT
[#5]
I would pick Larue over any of the others... that being said,
With fixed front sights I like lower 1/3 co-witness With folding front sights I like true co-witness Just my .02 |
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Posted: 11/2/2008 7:02:47 PM EDT
[#6]
LaRue is the best , in my book... I would not own anything else ..
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Posted: 11/2/2008 8:18:59 PM EDT
[#7]
If you go with LaRue you can still get an absolute cowitness and the Aimpoint T1 by using the mount made for HK on your AR.
MadDog 
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Posted: 11/2/2008 8:35:29 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
If you go with LaRue you can still get an absolute cowitness and the Aimpoint T1 by using the mount made for HK on your AR. MadDog hmmm interesting anyone else confirm this? I have fixed front sight |
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Posted: 11/2/2008 8:49:22 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you go with LaRue you can still get an absolute cowitness and the Aimpoint T1 by using the mount made for HK on your AR.MadDog hmmm interesting anyone else confirm this? I have fixed front sight False. I have the LaRue "HK" T1 mount and it won't work correctly with a fixed front sight base. The "HK" mount places the dot below the top of the front sight post of a fixed front sight base. It works well with a fold down front sight though. 
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Posted: 11/2/2008 9:51:57 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you go with LaRue you can still get an absolute cowitness and the Aimpoint T1 by using the mount made for HK on your AR.MadDog hmmm interesting anyone else confirm this? I have fixed front sight False. I have the LaRue "HK" T1 mount and it won't work correctly with a fixed front sight base. The "HK" mount places the dot below the top of the front sight post of a fixed front sight base. It works well with a fold down front sight though. <a href="http://www.box.net/shared/static/6u616ingz0.jpg[/url" target="_blank"> http://www.box.net/shared/static/6u616ingz0.jpg]http://www.box.net/shared/static/ntnvz47ell.jpg]http://www.box.net/shared/static/6u616ingz0.jpg [url]http://www.box.net/shared/static/ntnvz47ell.jpg</a> Got to disagree. The irons may be higher in the tube than dead center, but the dot MUST be on top of the front sight post if both are zeroed at the same distance. It cannot be any other way. The dot will just be higher in the tube when the irons are being used. Again there is no relation to where the dot is in the slightly modifiied mount heights and only a very minute difference in trajectories at normal ranges. If you have a target at 50 yards, irons sighted in at 50 yards, and an Aimpoint sighted in at 50 yards the dot will ALWAYS be right on top of your front sight post when using the irons whether you use a low, dead center, or lower 1/3 type mount. If that were not the case the Aimpoint would be suffering from a lot of parallax. |
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Posted: 11/3/2008 5:02:12 AM EDT
[#11]
I have my T-1 mounted on a LaRue 660 tall mount, and it works great. However, I miss the flip-up covers on my previous Comp M2. The GG&G Mountfor the T-1 provides integral flip-up covers. I have no experience with this mount, but it does have the covers, so I would consider it if I had it to do over and didn't get such a great deal on the T-1/660 combo on the EE.
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Posted: 11/3/2008 5:11:16 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
It has ZERO relation to the dot. The dot is ALWAYS on the top of your front sight post if your using the irons and can be anywhere if you are not with either mounting height. Lower 1/3 has to do with where the IRONS are in relation to the OPTIC TUBE. The irons will be in the lower third of the tube vs dead in the middle of the tube, blocking much of it. I am pretty sure this explantion is self explanatory and does not need a pic for you to understand. This is only true in a parallax free setup. If the scope is 6" tall, and you use standard iron sights, they can both be lined up with the target, but the dot will not be over the irons - in fact, you would not be able to see the irons, since their line of sight would be through the scope mount. I think this is the case with the HK example above. |
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Posted: 11/3/2008 7:57:22 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you go with LaRue you can still get an absolute cowitness and the Aimpoint T1 by using the mount made for HK on your AR.MadDog hmmm interesting anyone else confirm this? I have fixed front sight False. I have the LaRue "HK" T1 mount and it won't work correctly with a fixed front sight base. The "HK" mount places the dot below the top of the front sight post of a fixed front sight base. It works well with a fold down front sight though. <a href="http://www.box.net/shared/static/6u616ingz0.jpg[/url" target="_blank"> http://www.box.net/shared/static/6u616ingz0.jpg]http://www.box.net/shared/static/ntnvz47ell.jpg]http://www.box.net/shared/static/6u616ingz0.jpg [url]http://www.box.net/shared/static/ntnvz47ell.jpg</a> Got to disagree. The irons may be higher in the tube than dead center, but the dot MUST be on top of the front sight post if both are zeroed at the same distance. It cannot be any other way. The dot will just be higher in the tube when the irons are being used. Again there is no relation to where the dot is in the slightly modifiied mount heights and only a very minute difference in trajectories at normal ranges. If you have a target at 50 yards, irons sighted in at 50 yards, and an Aimpoint sighted in at 50 yards the dot will ALWAYS be right on top of your front sight post when using the irons whether you use a low, dead center, or lower 1/3 type mount. If that were not the case the Aimpoint would be suffering from a lot of parallax. Your own words in highlights above contradict the very definition of "absolute cowitness."  Of course the dot will be on top of the iron post "when using the iron sights". When using the iron sights with an Aimpoint T1 in a LaRue LT660HK mounted on a standard AR-15 flat-top receiver the tip of the front sight post and the red dot are visualized approximately 5/8 of the way up from the bottom of the Aimpoint field of view. You could call this an "upper 5/8 cowitness" which again contradicts the very definition of absolute cowitness.
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Posted: 11/3/2008 8:13:50 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
I have my T-1 mounted on a LaRue 660 tall mount, and it works great. However, I miss the flip-up covers on my previous Comp M2. The GG&G Mountfor the T-1 provides integral flip-up covers. I have no experience with this mount, but it does have the covers, so I would consider it if I had it to do over and didn't get such a great deal on the T-1/660 combo on the EE. The GG&G mount for the T1 is a fine mount, although it does weigh a little more than the LaRue mounts. The GG&G mount positions the T1 slightly lower than the LT660 mount and slightly higher than the LT660HK mount. 
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Posted: 11/3/2008 1:24:54 PM EDT
[#15]
Damn you guys have lost me LOL ok here lets ask this question this way.......I like the Larue mounts the Tall to me looks a little goofy and would rather have the HK mount I think......if I go with the Tall or the HK mount(I have a standard fixed front sight) will this set up work? specifically with the HK sight....will the dot sit to low or high on the front sight post?
which one of the 2 will work for me |
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Posted: 11/3/2008 1:34:44 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Damn you guys have lost me LOL ok here lets ask this question this way.......I like the Larue mounts the Tall to me looks a little goofy and would rather have the HK mount I think......if I go with the Tall or the HK mount(I have a standard fixed front sight) will this set up work? specifically with the HK sight....will the dot sit to low or high on the front sight post? which one of the 2 will work for me You don't want to use the LT660HK mount if you have a fixed front sight base. The red dot will sit below the top of the front sight post when not using the rear BUIS. |
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Posted: 11/3/2008 1:35:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
It has ZERO relation to the dot. The dot is ALWAYS on the top of your front sight post if your using the irons and can be anywhere if you are not with either mounting height. Lower 1/3 has to do with where the IRONS are in relation to the OPTIC TUBE. The irons will be in the lower third of the tube vs dead in the middle of the tube, blocking much of it. I am pretty sure this explantion is self explanatory and does not need a pic for you to understand. +1, many people don't seem to understand this. |
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Posted: 11/3/2008 1:55:49 PM EDT
[#18]
I'll tell you this:
I was DEAD SURE I wanted an absolute co-witness, I laughed at the idea of another $50-$100 for a mount. When actually put everything together and shouldered it, it became clear. I could get way more use out of the Eotech if it was mounted higher and being mounted directly to the rail doesn't allow me take full advantage of the non-parallax ability of the sight. I'm almost thinking I want to go higher then .275"-.3" but it will mess up what I have going with my fixed BUIS. |
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Posted: 11/3/2008 2:26:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Molon,
As I said and is shown in your picture.... Its the location of the IRONS in relation to the tube. As you can see the dot clears the front sight. Even with a lower 1/3 cowitness you can make the dot go into the front sight base. Even with an HK set up you can make the dot clear the front sight base. It all depends on the height of your eye. Most people want the irons out of the way. Thus you want the Larue and lower 1/3. All I am saying is that its not necessarily true the dot will be obscured by the front sight. Since the optic is parallax free so long as the irons are usable through the tube, the dot CAN clear the front sight if you put your eye/head low enough. |
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Posted: 11/3/2008 3:05:17 PM EDT
[#20]
The LTHK416 mount for the Micro was designed for use with the HK416 uppers with HK Diopter sights. The HK416 uppers are approximately 9mm higher than a standard M4 upper. So as DevL was saying the LTHK416 mount sits too low for use with standard sights on a standard upper.
S/F |
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Posted: 3/4/2009 1:46:41 PM EDT
[#21]
Let's drag this back out.
It appears to me that I'm not the first person to have thought about mounting a red-dot optic lower than what would provide a "lower 1/3" or "absolute" cowitness, such as by using the LT660HK and a T-1 on an Ar-15 with Troy folding front and rear BUIS. I do not have a fixed front sight post, and I do not intend to run BUIS and red dot at the same time. I believe that I could zero my BUIS, zero the T-1, and co-witness the T-1's dot (which would be near the top of the relatively small "tube" of the T-1), through my BUIS, correct? The biggest problem that I see with this setup when used simultaneously to co-witness, is that most of the field of view seen through the T-1 would be below the top of the front sight post, and therefore would be obscured by the BUIS. By putting the BUIS and dot in the bottom third of the tube, a lower 1/3 cowitness provides a relative abundance of un-obscured field of view, however this is only important to those that want to co-witness, or those that train such that they maintain a constant cheek weld, no matter if the BUIS or red dot are used. Molon, and others that may have tried it- other than the issues I mention above, is there any other reason that a lower-mounted red dot would not be preferable? How did it feel compared to a standard height Aimpoint? |
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Posted: 3/4/2009 1:59:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
It has ZERO relation to the dot. The dot is ALWAYS on the top of your front sight post if your using the irons and can be anywhere if you are not with either mounting height. Lower 1/3 has to do with where the IRONS are in relation to the OPTIC TUBE. The irons will be in the lower third of the tube vs dead in the middle of the tube, blocking much of it. I am pretty sure this explantion is self explanatory and does not need a pic for you to understand. That is one of the best explanations I have seen in a long time. |
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Posted: 3/4/2009 3:00:32 PM EDT
[#23]
Maybe this will help with the lower 1/3 cowitness.
M 
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Posted: 3/4/2009 6:09:29 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Maybe this will help with the lower 1/3 cowitness. Mhttp://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/mfingar/LaRue_Tactical/T-1SightPicture.jpg DevL's explanation and this picture are the best explanations of the difference between "absolute" and "lower third" co-witness i've ever seen. instead of using the term "absolute", "center" might be better to avoid confusion. it seems to me that if you use fold down front and rear sights, and keep them down while using the optic, the "center" co-witness would be best, as you can maintain a cheek weld. if you use fixed front and non-folding rear sights, co-witnessing at the lower third of the optic would allow you room in the optic to look over the top of the irons to use the optic. regardless of which method or style of sights used, when looking through the (properly zeroed) irons, the dot should always appear right on top of the front post. |
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Posted: 4/15/2009 5:26:52 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Maybe this will help with the lower 1/3 cowitness.  OK, is that photo shown on a standard height AR-15 or an HK rifle? If it's a standard AR, the HK mount looks like it'd do a decent job. |
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Posted: 4/15/2009 7:10:05 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Get the LaRue. Lower 1/3 is optimal. +1 |
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Posted: 5/18/2009 2:27:39 PM EDT
[#27]
Hey Guys,
Brand new here. I used the search function so I figured I would post on this topic. I want to go with the Eotech (probably the 512) on my Rock River Entry Tactical. I have a fixed front sight and will be getting a flip up extended rear. Do I need a mount if I don't want to use the front sight tip in my Eotech sight picture? I want to just be able to use the rear flip up along with the front sight tip if in case the batteries die (last resort). Thanks for the help..... 
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Posted: 5/18/2009 2:52:45 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Hey Guys, Brand new here. I used the search function so I figured I would post on this topic. I want to go with the Eotech (probably the 512) on my Rock River Entry Tactical. I have a fixed front sight and will be getting a flip up extended rear. Do I need a mount if I don't want to use the front sight tip in my Eotech sight picture? I want to just be able to use the rear flip up along with the front sight tip if in case the batteries die (last resort). Thanks for the help..... I would mount it directly on the top rail. Zero it, use it and then determine if you want a riser mount. No harm, no foul. 2¢ |
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Posted: 6/12/2009 5:50:59 PM EDT
[#29]
I am looking at the T1 with the Larue mount as well. I wish they would make one in the HK style but w/ either absolute or 1/3 co-witness for the M4. I just think the current one looks like a tall solid block of aluminum, doesn't look very nice.
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Posted: 6/12/2009 6:24:42 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Maybe this will help with the lower 1/3 cowitness. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/mfingar/LaRue_Tactical/T-1SightPicture.jpg]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/mfingar/LaRue_Tactical/T-1SightPicture.jpg]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/mfingar/LaRue_Tactical/T-1SightPicture.jpg OK, is that photo shown on a standard height AR-15 or an HK rifle? If it's a standard AR, the HK mount looks like it'd do a decent job. It's a standard M4 flat top. |
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Posted: 6/12/2009 6:33:56 PM EDT
[#31]
I wish Mark Larue would offer a mount like the GGG where you can mount lens covers! I have had the GGG combo ($605) on order for a month. First they were out of mounts, NOW they are out of T-1's and Aimpont USA is waiting on a shipment from Sweden. I do have the GGG spring loaded BUIS and they are NICE!
PursuitSS |
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Posted: 6/12/2009 6:47:59 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
I wish Mark Larue would offer a mount like the GGG where you can mount lens covers! I have had the GGG combo ($605) on order for a month. First they were out of mounts, NOW they are out of T-1's and Aimpont USA is waiting on a shipment from Sweden. I do have the GGG spring loaded BUIS and they are NICE! PursuitSS Each T-1 comes with a rubber bikini cover that works well with our mount. Our objective was to keep the package as small as possible. Just push the covers off the lenses, and you're in business. Some folks protect the light-setting dial with the larger cup (it fits right over it).. |
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Posted: 6/12/2009 7:10:26 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I wish Mark Larue would offer a mount like the GGG where you can mount lens covers! I have had the GGG combo ($605) on order for a month. First they were out of mounts, NOW they are out of T-1's and Aimpont USA is waiting on a shipment from Sweden. I do have the GGG spring loaded BUIS and they are NICE! PursuitSS Each T-1 comes with a rubber bikini cover that works well with our mount. Our objective was to keep the package as small as possible. Just push the covers off the lenses, and you're in business. Some folks protect the light-setting dial with the larger cup (it fits right over it).. At my age I don't want to relearn my drill for exiting the Patrol car with the carbine. As I exit I automatically reach down and flip the covers open on my Aimpoint M2. BTW, I love all of your products that I have. To state they are indestructible simply does not due them justice! I feel safe in saying that what ever you mount on a Larue mount will be destroyed LONG before the mount suffers any damage. PursuitSS |
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Posted: 10/13/2009 9:57:36 AM EDT
[#34]
I would like to debate which is better and why....
I was sold on the SOCOM height due to popular opinion, and because it seemed as though you would have less iron in your optic to obstruct your view, (plus having SOCOM in the name is pretty cool too). Now that I have the thing mounted on my rifle, however, I am not so sure. To me it is not about how much iron you have in your optic because the damn things will be folded down anyway, (this may be another story if you have fixed irons). What it comes down to is cheek weld, and this is my biggest beef with the SOCOM height riser. You see, you have to have certain cheek weld to look through your iron sights. However, if you fold down your irons and use that same cheek weld to look through your T1 with the SOCOM riser, the dot will be lower 1/3. This forces you to use a different cheek weld if you want your red dot centered in your tube than you use for looking through irons. Having to use two different cheek welds seems more of a pain in the ass than having slightly more iron in your tube. Again, I don't see why you would have them up in the first place. The only time I can see that is if your dot goes down. Honestly, what are the chances of that happening? Now, in the rare chance that does happen, which is faster/easier, to flip up both your front and rear sights, or to just rip that damn T1 off of your gun, (it does have a quick release after all). With that said, it seems as though the regular height is superior to the SOCOM in every aspect. Thoughts?... |
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Posted: 10/13/2009 10:37:42 AM EDT
[#35]
For me it, the setup, boils down to using the irons with the Aimpoint still mounted.
I much prefer absolute if the Aimpoint is mounted, the irons are centered and easy to use. With lower 1/3 you don't get as good a view of the irons with the Aimpoint still mounted. However, I run flip sights, I'm not running a fixed front sight tower on anything but my 14.5" A2/TA31. With fixed sights, say a front sight tower and a cut off carry handle in the rear, you definitely want lower 1/3 to keep the irons out of the way of the dot. That way if the dot goes down, you just slide down to center the irons. With flip sights, you can go either way, absolute or lower 1/3 'cause the irons aren't in the way. I've tried it both ways with the MRP with lower 1/3, and the 14.5" Scout with absolute. If I have to flip the sights up and shoot with no dot Aimpoint mounted, the absolute, better sight picture. Sights up and dot working, the lower 1/3 'cause the irons aren't as much in the way More "combat ready" this way. 
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Posted: 10/14/2009 6:08:35 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
For me it, the setup, boils down to using the irons with the Aimpoint still mounted. I much prefer absolute if the Aimpoint is mounted, the irons are centered and easy to use. With lower 1/3 you don't get as good a view of the irons with the Aimpoint still mounted. However, I run flip sights, I'm not running a fixed front sight tower on anything but my 14.5" A2/TA31. With fixed sights, say a front sight tower and a cut off carry handle in the rear, you definitely want lower 1/3 to keep the irons out of the way of the dot. That way if the dot goes down, you just slide down to center the irons. With flip sights, you can go either way, absolute or lower 1/3 'cause the irons aren't in the way. I've tried it both ways with the MRP with lower 1/3, and the 14.5" Scout with absolute. If I have to flip the sights up and shoot with no dot Aimpoint mounted, the absolute, better sight picture. Sights up and dot working, the lower 1/3 'cause the irons aren't as much in the way More "combat ready" this way. http://bellsouthpwp.net/e/d/edwin907/042.jpg http://bellsouthpwp.net/e/d/edwin907/MRP.jpg I see the advantage if you are running "combat ready" like you said, much less iron in the way, but I am a little confused on why a person would want to run that way. Is it just in case your dot goes down you can drop down to your irons? A couple points there: You said your self in that situation you would prefer absolute because of the better sight picture, and the time it takes to flip them up seems insignificant. Does the 2 cheek weld thing bug you at all? It seems like the optimum cheek weld is how you would shoot your iron sights, but lower 1/3 makes you take a higher, "non-natural" cheek weld. |
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Posted: 10/14/2009 10:59:08 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
LaRue is the best , in my book... I would not own anything else .. this is the God's truth. |
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