User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 1/10/2006 3:54:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: photoman]
[#1]
My resurected tacpoint is going to go out for some range time this next weekend here if I can fit it in. This should really be interesting. I'm curious to see how bad the electronics got screwed up and if it will even zero again or hold a zero.
I'll also fix the pics some time this weekend too. |
|
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 1/18/2006 2:49:15 PM EDT
[#2]
|
|
|
WA, USA
|
Posted: 2/9/2006 12:37:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Luke77]
[#3]
Okay, I bought a Tacpoint to see what all the hype was. I haven't made a trip to the range yet, but so far, I like it. Here are some pictures I took of it. I came up with an interesting way to mount it. Take a look.
Threw the Glock in there just cause http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/thehois/IM000931.jpg BUIS down http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/thehois/IM000934.jpg BUIS up http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/thehois/IM000935.jpg through the scope http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/thehois/IM000936.jpg and if you look real carefully, you can just BARELY see the front sight post. It's not a perfect cowitness, but it works http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/thehois/IM000939.jpg |
|
|
UT, USA
|
Posted: 2/12/2006 5:10:45 AM EDT
[#4]
Okay, it's 3 am and after 23 pages of opinion nad observation I still don't have what I am looking for.
I am wondering if anyone can conclusively say that there is any real difference between the SPOT, the TacPoint Japan, TacPoint China, the "special build spec" at NVW, or the ones coming off ebay?? If not I think I'll experiment with a $75 one from ebay vs the $150 SPOT. Interesting note by the way on top shelf vs knock-off. My cousin was in Hong Kong for his business recently and came home with a set of high end knock-off golf clubs that he paid ~$150 for. Genuine thing in the US would have cost him ~$800. I gave him a bad time about buying cheap copies from China. He said the factory that makes his company's equipment also makes the golf clubs he bought... and also makes the Genuine ones sold here in the US. He said that about half the clubs out of this factory get put in pretty boxes and shipped to the US to be sold for $800. The other half of the clubs go out the back door, get put on a truck and go to brokers to be distributed off market for $175. $$$ doesn't always tell the truth. |
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 2/13/2006 3:22:54 PM EDT
[#5]
Where can one get a Tacpoint blue ring?
|
|
|
IL, USA
|
Posted: 2/13/2006 4:33:08 PM EDT
[#6]
Agreed! Folks who have had the opportunity to travel to China, Singapore, Japan can see that many of the knock offs are the same as the name brands. The knockoffs are in different packaging. But once opened and utilized, that difference is hard to tell. Once you see it with your own eyes it's amazing how many folks are getting porked by name brand pricing. I include myself as one getting porked too....until I opened my eyes. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/15/2006 12:49:32 AM EDT
[#7]
the ones I mounted on my AC556 and Mac-10 still work fine.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2006 12:44:55 PM EDT
[#8]
Damn, I can't belive this thread is still alive. I guess it was worth all the BS I took for starting it in the first place.
 Ok, here are the updates for 2006. I talked to Hakko at the SHOT show and asked them what was up with the Tacpoint and will it ever be imported again. You want to hear something funny? The had NEVER heard of it.  There were four VERY polite reps from Japan that knew less about their products than I did. That is very scary as I sell nothing they make. They had wireless internet, so I showed them the sight on-line. After five minutes of talking back in forth, they told me that they would be happy to build me 5000 if I would give them my Tacpoint for them to copy.  It was pretty obvious that anyone assocciated with the old project was not known to the reps here at SHOT. So, don't hold your breath on more Tacpoints. In fact, Hakko did not have a single non-magnified optic on display. It seems to me that all they want to make are scopes. A quick note on all the other clones out there: There were at least 10 Asian companies selling clones. One thing I noticed on every single one of them was how light they were. My Tacpoint blue ring (pictured on page one of this thread) weighs almost as much as my Aimpoints do. Every sight I saw at SHOT was less than half the weight of my Tacpoint! I never looked at the Tacpoint as "high quality" before that.  Question for you clone owners of sights other than the SPOT or Tacpoint: Can one of you weigh the sight without a mount and let us know what it is? I am thinking that some or even most of the Ebay clones must be these lightweight sights. The company that makes the SPOT and the Burris Speed Dot was there. They also make the ADCO sight. They were good about explaining the diffrences. FYI, all are made in Korea. The Burris is made with higher quality glass and seals so it is waterproof (10 meters) and it has a better quality shock isolation for the LED. I asked if it had double lenses in the front like Aimpoint and he said that he did not think that it did. He seemed to think that double lenses in the front were covered by an Aimpoint patent. (for those of you who do not know, the double lens guarantees point of aim and point of impact are the same when the sight is zeroed. Single lens sights will angle the reflection of the LED and will not match up exactly. Basicly, it is impossible to zero a single lens sight exactly because every time you look through the sight, it will be different) The ADCO sight and the SPOT are exactly the same. the ADCO sight is sold through Dillon (Blue Press) and the SPOT is sold through Mounting Solutions Plus. Neither of these sights are listed as waterproof as they do not use the higher quality seals. They are both considered water resistant. Basicly, you won't kill your sight if you get caught in the rain, but don't go swimming with it.  I asked what was up with the warning in the box with the SPOT (not for professional or personal defense). Because the basic sight does not have the better shock isolation in the LED they will not stand behind it if you get shot because it dies, or more importantly, you loose zero and end up shooting a bystander. FYI: One of my customers emailed me today and confirmed that the free mount with the ADCO/SPOT sight may not co-witness iron sights as it may be too low. He was told by the customer service rep that you may need a riser or a different mount. I think that the problem might be for those with the higher F marked FSB and not as much of an issue with a 20" barrel and standard FSB. Maybe one of you can answer this better. That is really all I have. I did see a few other things out there I am sure will pop up on AR15.com sooner or later. One thing that made me laugh out loud was a clone that had a laser on the side of it. I want to say the MSRP was right around $80 with a mount. I looked the guy dead in the eye and asked what the quality was like. His answer and I quote, "Who cares. You sell at gunshow or Ebay and you never see again."  I hope I still have his card......  |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2006 12:55:58 PM EDT
[#9]
Damn thanks for all the info, if you don't mind I'd like to copy some of that stuff on the spot for the sport torture test thread(with proper credit of course). You don't by any chance have any contact info for the SPOT folks do you?
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2006 1:37:56 PM EDT
[#10]
I wish I did. I talked to 5,000 people it seems like. I don't even remember the name of the company that was importing all the sights. I am sure I got a business card, but I left a folder full of stuff in my hotel room when I left.  I can tell you that they have no problem private labeling a sight for a 1000 unit minimum order! Because they have no problem making sights for anyone willing to buy a big order, I am guessing that Ned at MSP would rather I did not share that info even if I had it handy.  I would just stick with Ned as my SPOT information source. MSP is a great outfit and they stand behind everything the sell and distribute. They can get the answer for anything you might need. |
||
|
|
MI, USA
|
Posted: 2/16/2006 7:32:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Cuz]
[#11]
I thought I posted this once before. Hakko went bankrupt in early 2005... The name is now owned by one of the largest optics plants in China called Sams (the owners name is David Yin). You can varify this by searching the name Hakko at USTPO's website..... Te orginal Japan Hakko went off and formed a new company called Japan Optics... If you spoke to someone at a booth, that had the Hakko name on it, more than likely they were from China, not Japan and that's the reason they didnt know of it. |
|
|
|
OR, USA
|
Posted: 2/25/2006 10:54:41 PM EDT
[#12]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2006 2:44:51 AM EDT
[#13]
Funny you should say that, mine died today too.
|
|||
|
|
WI, USA
|
Posted: 3/27/2006 5:57:48 PM EDT
[#14]
I also have one of the Ebay sights. I cannot recomend it. First time using it on the gun some plastic inside broke free and bounces around when fired. It still works fine but ehh. Also the mount is no good, comes loose all the time. Yes only $50 but add another 30-40 for a good mount and depending on how long it lasts might not be worth it. If you can save or afford a good one get it, if not heck this one works
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/27/2006 7:37:00 PM EDT
[#15]
My "Sports Goods Perfect Red Dot" weighs approx. 6.5 oz or 180 grams:    Is light weight good or bad? The Aimpoint CompM2 weighs 7.1 oz or 200 grams. Not alot of difference. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/27/2006 8:25:34 PM EDT
[#16]
I weighed an M2 with battery and lens covers at 7.5oz.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/27/2006 8:51:18 PM EDT
[#17]
I got the Aimpoint M2 weight off their website: www.aimpoint.com/o.o.i.s?id=253&product_id=19 Weight 200 grams (7.1 oz) and both my "Aimpoint" and "Sports Goods Perfect Red Dot" came with battery installed. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/28/2006 6:25:44 AM EDT
[#18]
Back on topic (the TacPoint):
I've now had my Japanese non-blue ring for over a year. Classes/training shoots/hard use (rain, mud, etc) ~ once every 6 weeks. >5k, <10k rounds. While the unit still works, it's developed a funny issue: When it's first turned on, the dot is floating way above the zero (3" @ 25 yards). After the first shot, it's back to cowitness. It has gotten to the point that for that first shot I just use the irons, and use the dot thereafter. I'm fairly certian the next dot I'll get is an AimPoint, but I probably won't do so until the TP quits. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/29/2006 5:04:56 PM EDT
[#19]
I used my Tacpoint Blue Ring this weekend. Cowitnessed perfectly with my YHM BUIS. Held its zero after firing 700+ rounds and bouncing around in the back of a truck off road.
It was examined by my friends who have used Aimpoints in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they didn't notice an appreciable difference in the sight picture. It's not an Aimpoint. But it's not worthless, either. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2006 8:48:56 AM EDT
[#20]
Had one come into the shop a few weeks ago that was busted...the guy said it got dropped in a puddle and stopped working. The puddle was in the grass so its not like it hit the ground hard... My advice...save your money by and Aimpoint or and Eotech |
||
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 5/9/2006 8:56:19 PM EDT
[#21]
I think this has to be one of the longest threads to run i've ever tried to read.
Asside from the "STILL TYPICAL"mudslinging this is a great info source. My bushnell lost 11inch's (only down thank god)at Bill Rogers rifle class.At the end of 600 rounds i aimed at the target stand for a hit at 112 yards on a 8x11 steel plate. I just got one of the blue ring jobs ,used at a show ,in the box with all the stuff and batteries(and extras)for $35. I'm a 3 gunner so if the dot dies ,lost stage ,so what. I'll subscribe to this and post updates if the thread still lives on. My wife and i plan to shoot a steel Challenge type match at the end of the month with my BM 9mm cheapy(not price but i wont own another plastic rifle). I mounted it with a knights copy and it zeroed in 10 shots .Should have been less but i'm dislex?????ic. Many thanks to the guy who started this and those who constructivly added thereafter. |
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 5/9/2006 9:15:00 PM EDT
[#22]
OH,just one more thing............
There was a Aimpoint copy for sale at the gunshow i was at that was marked AIMPOINT for $100 and now i'm sorry i did'nt get one. Another thing! Being short of attention i did not read all of 23 pages so this may be back there allready but.................. When my Bushnell lost zero and worst yet Bill warned us (i was one of more than 3 that eotec or bushnell let down)"We haven't seen too many of those make through our course"(just shooting,mind you) More about that whole thing upon request......... He was using a pride fowler optic,whitch looks suspiciously like a spot. Of course there is a price difference but also option difference. I wonder if these guys don't start with a cheapy and then soup-em-up. i hope so ,cause i don't own any nvg nore want to at this time. I want a dot that won't send me into devource for buying it or drive to insanity for lost shots. I have a close friend in the reserves that is not a shooter but may get deployed.I want to send him the best I can afford and hope to god he will mount the damn thing when it comes down it. |
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 5/13/2006 6:06:26 PM EDT
[#23]
I am not sure anyone else has had this problem so I am going to post the problem and "fix". I had not used The Tacpoint in about 6 months and upon turning it on discovered the dot was very dim and was totally useless near a window much less outdoors. I replaced the batteries which had no effect on the dot brightness. I replaced with another set of batteries from a higher turnover vendor with still no joy. Wondering if this might be a dampness problem I left the Tacpoint on over night at the highest setting and was rewarded with a normal and bright dot this morning. Hope this is of help to someone else.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/13/2006 6:25:35 PM EDT
[#24]
So, the scope is ok now? |
||
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 5/14/2006 10:21:46 PM EDT
[#25]
It is still working at this time. I am going to turn it off and try it again tomorrow. I wouldn't bet my life on its reliability at this point. Gil
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/14/2006 10:49:02 PM EDT
[#26]
Anyone still selling these? I have the Japan one, and I like it.
|
|
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 5/17/2006 11:42:32 AM EDT
[#27]
The Tacpoint still works, after a several hour warmup. I think I will install it on my unreliable M1 carbine. It should be a perfect match, a carbine that doesn't want to shoot with a reddot that idoesn't want to show. Sorry for the bad info. Gil
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 5/20/2006 9:14:05 PM EDT
[#28]
Curious, is Sports Goods the company's name? Where did you pick it up at? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/20/2006 11:12:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Ebay. One of those Hong Kong sellers Ebay member: "nothingtobid". Do a search under "Aimpoint Comp M2" or "Red Dot Scope" etc. and you'll find items like the one I bought here: cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSAA:US:11&Item=7216716364 |
|||
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 6/1/2006 4:48:22 PM EDT
[#30]
Anyone had any experience with one of these? Looks a lot like a TacPoint to me.
Ultra Dot Strike Dot Thanks in advance. -Tuesday |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/2/2006 8:54:14 AM EDT
[#31]
Damn skippy it does. Tan ring instead of a blue one, and the ring even says "Hakko" on it. 
|
||
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 6/2/2006 12:56:11 PM EDT
[#32]
I could be wrong but it looks to me like that ring says "Houts Enterprises". Which would be the company who is selling the sight.
Is there anyone out there who has seen/puchased one of these and can speak to (or against) the quality of the sight? Thanks again, Tuesday |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/2/2006 2:31:16 PM EDT
[#33]
 Looks like you're right. I was seeing "Hakko" instead of "Houts"
FWIW, even the ring looks just like the one that comes with the TacPoint, so I'd say it's a safe bet to assume that it came off the same line, and will have the same or similar issues. |
|||
|
|
NC, USA
|
Posted: 6/3/2006 11:20:09 PM EDT
[#34]
I have one of these Strike Dot Gold Ring things. I got it on a whim. I have an Aimpoint that I took out of the Arms mount and put it into the Aimpoint QRP mount. I did not want to waste money on another Aimpoint and figured I would give the 80 dollar sight a try. It seems to work good and I will shoot it tomorrow to see how she fares.
Again I am not staking my life with this one, but it should be fine for range work and lending to someone to shoot. Max |
|
|
NC, USA
|
Posted: 6/4/2006 4:05:37 PM EDT
[#35]
Well I just got back from the range. The Strike Point actually worked fine. Obviously I had some reservations but once I got it sighted in at 25 yards all I had to do is raise it 10 clicks up and I was hitting the bullseye. This is 100 rounds down range before I left. This was in the heat of the day and the red dot did not wash out. I was thinking that I would have to get an Arms 40 BUIS but this thing is accurate so the BUIS can wait.
I think as long as you have a good mount and use it as a range gun, it is good to go. Even for home defense, I won't have any reservations using it. As I said before I have a real aimpoint and the fakepoint. I like them both of my M4s. Max |
|
|
IN, USA
|
Posted: 6/6/2006 6:53:10 PM EDT
[#36]
Saw one of these at the gun show this weekend on a table next to a TacPoint with the blue ring. The TP had an extra inch of tube at the back compared to this one. Otherwise they looked the same to me. The guy wanted $99 for the SD, and I think $139 for the TP. Dot looked nice and bright and the optics clear enough. UltraDot has a good rep with the pistol bullseye crowd so I almost bought one, but thought I'd check in here first. For the extra $50 would I be better off going with a SPOT? |
||
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 6/9/2006 5:53:24 PM EDT
[#37]
New to the board here, but have been following this thread...
From what I understand, Ultra Dot is the name of the company (or brand) that is picking up where the Hakko company/brand left off. Is supposed to be identical. |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 6/9/2006 5:55:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: akxx]
[#38]
On a related note, the Ultra Dot panorama (PAN-V) is supposed to be the old Hakko Bed-35 sight. This is similar to (but not direct copy) of EoTech. Any one with experience with this?
Since I'm new, not sure if it's kosher to post hotlinks, but do search on ebay for "ultra dot pana" |
|
|
WA, USA
|
Posted: 6/10/2006 2:03:14 AM EDT
[#39]
i wasted my money on the PANA-V. don't waste yours. spend the extra $100 and get a bushnell version of the eotech.
everytime i switch the sight type, dot, tee, circle ETC the POI changed. then the whole thing stopped working after 300 rounds. |
|
|
SD, USA
|
Posted: 6/12/2006 12:45:33 PM EDT
[#40]
O.K. This might sound like a stupid question. I got a hold of a Tacpoint to see if I like the Red Dot world. I have the std 30mm ring that came with the Tac. I also already have one of these:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=616939 My question is this. Does the extra height of the Tac on the top of the standard carry handle mount screw up the aiming if I zero the Irons at 50 yds, then zero the red dot? What about the angles out to 200 yards using the dot? Will it still be accurate? |
|
|
IN, USA
|
Posted: 6/12/2006 1:08:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Mike_L]
[#41]
Putting the dot on wouldn't change the zero for the irons, but the dot will have a different trajectory than the irons because it's so much higher. Since it'll have to rise up more/faster to meet line-of-sight it'll go higher at mid-range than the irons. I think you'll want to zero the dot farther out, maybe 100yds, to keep the mid-range peak lower.
You can use a ballistics calculator like this one to see how various zeros work. For Q3131 from a 20" barrel use 3270fps and BC=.266 (Winchester's numbers). Knock off 100-200fps for shorter barrel or non-M193 loads. Or check the fragmentation range chart if that's still around (I think in the ammo forum) for Vel & BC of many common loads from 20/16/14.5" barrels. Iron sights are 2.6" above bore, add whatever to that for the dot. Set the range increment down to about 5 yards so you can see what it's doing. ETA: Not sure what you mean by "angles out to 200 yds" but because the dot is higher any cant to the rifle will have more effect than it would when using the lower irons so it'll be more important to make sure you have the rifle vertical (bore directly under the dot). |
|
|
SD, USA
|
Posted: 6/12/2006 1:41:14 PM EDT
[#42]
Thanks. That answers my questions. I knew the trajectory arc would have to be significantly higher, but I wasn't sure how much of a difference there would be on the point of impact if I zeroed it the dot at say 100 yds, and fired at a target at say 30 yds. Thanks for the tip on keeping the rifle verticle also. I'll probably see about a gooseneck if I eventually get an aimpoint.
|
|
|
IN, USA
|
Posted: 6/12/2006 3:33:28 PM EDT
[#43]
Running the Q3131 numbers from Winchester and assuming 3.75" above bore it looks like 65yds would give you the closest trajectory to the 50yd IBSZ with the irons. 75yds would keep the mid-point peak a bit lower at the expense of the longer end. 100yds has the mid-point barely above the LOS so it gives away a lot on the long end. 50yds puts the mid-point more than 5" above LOS. It'll shoot low at 30 regardless. Even with the irons and a 50-yd zero it'll be quite a bit low. Not enough to matter for center-of-mass shots, but might be an issue for head shots.
Before buying a gooseneck price a flat-top receiver. If you ask on the Hometown forums you can probably find somebody who lives close to you that has the tools and can help you swap out your A2 receiver for a flat-top. Could end up being cheaper than the gooseneck mount, especially if you can re-sell the A2 receiver. |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 6/14/2006 6:03:05 PM EDT
[#44]
POWERWAGON, thanks for the review. Too bad Hakko's holo sight isn't as good as their Aimpoint clone! |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 6/21/2006 12:11:05 AM EDT
[#45]
So a buddy of mine recently bought an Aimpoint clone. The thing we noticed is that the dot shifts POA when you move your head around. A lot. My understanding of the strengths of the Aimpoint and other dot scopes is that the POA doesn't shift when viewpoint shifts due to double lens engineering. Anyone notice this with their clones?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2006 12:55:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: palerider]
[#46]
No, If that were the case, it wouldn't sell. I suggest doing a comparo with both mounted or unmounted for consistency. The basic internal design is the same. Only the chinese slave prison labor and warranty are different. |
||
|
|
IN, USA
|
Posted: 6/21/2006 10:22:03 AM EDT
[#47]
Are you sure the POA is shifting? The dot will move around in the view if you shift your head, but so does the target. The dot should move to stay on the target. Somebody posted an example picture on one of these threads that showed how the dot followed Osama to the various corners of the view.
There will probably be a little shift when you get near the edges of the view though. If you go back a page or two of this thread there's a long post where one of the dealers here talked to the manufacturers of the SPOT & XTS-135 at the SHOT show and they thought the double lens was an Aimpoint patent. So I would expect all non-Aimpoint dots to have some parallax. I've seen an article by bullseye pistol shooters where they checked the parallax on a couple of dots common in that game and both showed parallax errors that moved the dot out to the edges of the X ring at the edges of the view. |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 6/21/2006 10:31:36 AM EDT
[#48]
OK, we don't have an Aimpoint to compare it to but this dot seemed to shift noticably on across the room objects. Maybe without it mounted we were exceeding the design parameters.
This particular model also had the lower half of the ARMS mount copy permanently attached to the bottom of the scope. Only the top half of the rings came off. Glue? Weld? Loctite? Anyone seen anything like this? |
|
|
IN, USA
|
Posted: 6/21/2006 10:54:30 AM EDT
[#49]
I can't find the article--they compared at 2 distances--but I think the parallax effect is worst at close range. So your across-the-room test would be worst-case. You probably won't notice it on the range.
All of the dots I've seen come with either normal rings or a cantilever mount, except the ones like the $30 BSAs with a built-in mount. I guess jackyiscxd's on the EE is available with an ARMS mount, but it shouldn't be attached. If the bottom is attached, what purpose is there for the top to come off at all? |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 6/22/2006 12:00:48 AM EDT
[#50]
Yeah... That's kind of what we thought too. Must be a looks thing.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
