I just had a friend of mine give me six brand new 30 round M16/AR-15 mags.  He is active duty Army and he said the armorer issued them to him last month for him to take to an infantry school at Ft Hood.  He managed to "forget" to turn them in when he returned the rest of his gear.  

They are all black with green followers.  They appear to be Teflon coated.  They have six welds on the front & back of the mags.  The mystery to me is the complete lack of identifying markings.  There is nothing on the magazine base plate & there is  nothing on the sides of the mags.  I have run across some LE/Mil only mags in the past that had the date of manufacture and the LE/Mil stamp on the side of the mag.

Is this something new?  I haven't heard of any USGI mags with no markings at all on them.

Here are some photos:

they look kind of like the CMMG replacement mag bodies they had. Could be wrong though

1.  Those aren't legit GI mags from any real armory.  
 a.  Theirs no Teflon, I've heard of in circulation.  
 b.  They would be marked w/ Proper Identifying Info.
      ie. a manufacture date, a cage code, a manufacturer, and manufacturer's location.

They do not appear to be CMMG replacement bodies either.  The "drip" marks in the finish visible on the image of the side of the magazine, display a lower quality finish/finishing process than CMMG's manufacturer used.

Based on the above observations I'd give you "even money" they are "R-Guns" "pre-ban GI Teflons".

/S2

Look like the replacement mag floor plates as well ..... they are unmarked DPMS makes them unmarked.

Thanks for the comments.

I can assure you the mags came from an armory at Ft Carson.  My friend is a gunner on a Bradley assigned to a unit in the 3rd ACR there.  I don't want to get into much more detail - you never know who is cruising these forums.

He doesn't own an AR and has never really even been interested in shooting any of mine, so I don't think he obtained the mags elsewhere.  I am absolutely certain they were issued to him.

He said he has access to many more of these and he would be happy to hook me up with some more if I wanted them.

I am hoping to get out to the range today to see how they function.  They fit in my rifles perfectly and the mag catch works just fine.  They certainly appear to be USGI.  I have loaded them full and then unloaded with my LULA.  No problems found with either process.

It was (and is) a little odd not seeing any identifying marks anywhere on the mags or floorplates.

Here are two more photos if it might help:

They look to be the black teflons like Rguns has. Would not suprise me the gov. would have lots of unmarked mags. I can imagine they have uses for items like that

Look exactly like the USA metal mags.

Quoted: Thanks for the comments. I can assure you the mags came from an armory at Ft Carson.  My friend is a gunner on a Bradley assigned to a unit in the 3rd ACR there.  I don't want to get into much more detail - you never know who is cruising these forums. He doesn't own an AR and has never really even been interested in shooting any of mine, so I don't think he obtained the mags elsewhere.  I am absolutely certain they were issued to him. He said he has access to many more of these and he would be happy to hook me up with some more if I wanted them. I am hoping to get out to the range today to see how they function.  They fit in my rifles perfectly and the mag catch works just fine.  They certainly DO NOT APPEAR to be USGI.  I have loaded them full and then unloaded with my LULA.  No problems found with either process. It was (and is) a little odd not seeing any identifying marks anywhere on the mags or floorplates. Here are two more photos if it might help: img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/TennVol/Mag-4.jpg img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/TennVol/Mag-5.jpg

there fixed it for ya. Are these steel or aluminum? damn man if they work and he can get you more, go for it.

DPMS mags are really Labelle Mags, with " Defence Procurement .... " on the floor plate.

Those arent DPMS.

-Matt

Poor looking mags.
The unit "may" have purchased with discretionary funds......
They're definitely not USGI...

Whoever spotwelded those seams should have changed it out for a new one,or at least dressed his spotweld tip.   That looks really tacky

Quoted: Look exactly like the USA metal mags.

Not really.  These are stamped on the same as GI mags.  But aren't.  Maybe a manufacturer of GI mags but these are definitely not a GI run.  In theire defense, nor are they USAs.  If these are R-Guns Teflons, they aren't pretty but will run.

/S2

Don't know if it matters, but they are aluminum mags.

Took them to range yesterday and they worked great.  

I think I will have him bring me another 20 or so.

They will make nice range mags, if nothing else.

The mags that came with my DPMS M4 look like this. Those mags are black teflon w/ green follower. They were made by D&H industries not Labelle (according to the CAGE code on the mag). They were marked with a date and 'Export Only'. My mags have those big spotwelds on them too. These mags look just like mine. They work and look great.

Isn't anyone else a bit concerned that the topic of this thread is really "Theft of Government Property"?

I have been lurking on this forum for some time, but decided to register when I saw that this discussion has been going on for some time, and nobody seems bothered by the fact that we are talking about the theft of property paid for by our tax dollars.  I don't care if this military unit was issued these mags or purchased them with discretionary funds, if the original story is true, then these are STOLEN.

Magazines are actually categorized as consumable items...  they are only designed to be used once in as far as the army's inventory is concerned.

as long as he didn't sign for them, they don't exist.

Labelle made aluminum mags in both gray and black teflon, under their own label, and for others (such as DPMS).

I personally have several each black and gray Labelle mags with unmarked floorplates.

So Gackman, you are telling me that just because nobody has signed for them that it is permissible  for them to walk off?

As a taxpayer who is actually paying the freight this is an abomination.

Let's call it what it is:  Theft from the pockets of all Americans, and theft from the capability of our Armed Services to defend this nation.  (Don't think so?  What would it do to our defense budget if every soldier "liberated" six or more magazines for a friend?)

It is pretty bizzare that I am the only one who sees this.

well...  call the Ft Carson PMO and report the 'crime'

Quoted: It is pretty bizzare that I am the only one who sees this.

Uptight AND deluded.  Go live some actual life then come back and we'll talk.

"Abomination."  laff

I have a great life.

I just don't find it necessary to steal, or to defend those who do.

It is a sad commentary when respect for the law is considered "uptight" and "deluded".

Maybe the framers were wrong.  Maybe we cannot be trusted with the implements of freedom if we have become a nation of thieves.  

I'm just saying that the point isn't visible from where you're standing.  

Go put on a uniform then spend a few years shedding blood, sweat and tears.  Your perspective will change, trust me.  Understanding will follow.  Up until that point, please quietly enjoy the freedom which has been provided to you.

What the hell was this thread about, anyway?!?  

King of smug there Hal9K.

US Army 1980-1984.  TXARNG 1984-1986 before being medically retired following an accident involving an M60A1 at Ft. Hood.

I paid my dues, and if you think that putting on a uniform gives you the right to steal, then you dishonor your uniform and the oath you took.

Quoted: I have a great life. I just don't find it necessary to steal, or to defend those who do. It is a sad commentary when respect for the law is considered "uptight" and "deluded". Maybe the framers were wrong.  Maybe we cannot be trusted with the implements of freedom if we have become a nation of thieves.

Hey You go get back under you bridge you bitch ass troll

The welds make them appear to be some refinished crappy Cooper mags.

Quoted: Quoted: I have a great life. I just don't find it necessary to steal, or to defend those who do. It is a sad commentary when respect for the law is considered "uptight" and "deluded". Maybe the framers were wrong.  Maybe we cannot be trusted with the implements of freedom if we have become a nation of thieves.   Hey You go get back under you bridge you bitch ass trollhr

It is a sad day indeed when one is considered to be a "b*t*h a** troll" for pointing out that free men shouldn't be thieves.  Did you bother to read the entire thread prior to posting your words of wisdom?  Do you believe that one has a right to steal from the pockets of the American people?

Or, do you believe as I do, that American gun owners should be good citizens, and should demonstrate that they are worthy of the trust that is placed in them by being exemplary in their conduct?  Guess what, your conduct, as well as that of all the rest of those who defend theivery, does far more damage to the cause of freedom than any "troll".  Plenty of ammunition (pardon the pun) in this thread for those who hate freedom to demonstrate that we cannot be trusted with firearms.  After all, if you can't be trusted not to steal (so their logic goes), why should you be trusted with a deadly implement?

I guess I touched on a raw nerve here.  So far I have been mocked, told that I don't have a life, told that I would understand theft if I had served in uniform (gosh, I have carried a tan, green, red, and now blue military ID card for most of my life, and still don't condone theft), and now called a "b*t*h a** troll".  All for denouncing stealing.

What does serving in the military have to do with theft? I would hope TennVol would have some little voice in the back of his head that says it isn't cool to have stolen government property or any property for that matter. As much as I would love for a friend to give me a bunch of USGI M14 mags. right is right and wrong is wrong. Getting free mags from the US Government is wrong. Dice it up any way you want, it is wrong.

When I think of gun owners, I think of people I can leave my car unlock at the range with all of my guns and accessories in it. I think of national match highpower and the vast majority of guys shooting there that are veterans. I think of honesty and integrity and doing the right thing. I trust those guys.

Now I am going to have to watch out for Hal9k who will be out lurking for his freebies for the day because veterans deserve a free handout now and then. Real good representation of the veterans who have fought and died for this country.

Does this mean I should stop using the equipment exchange here because no telling when a veteran seller is going to take my money from the new upper I want to buy and use it as part of his GI Bill?

You ladies leave your address at the door.  In 2-4 weeks, you'll receive a complimentary kleenex, kotex, and clue.

Quoted: What does serving in the military have to do with theft? I would hope TennVol would have some little voice in the back of his head that says it isn't cool to have stolen government property or any property for that matter. As much as I would love for a friend to give me a bunch of USGI M14 mags. right is right and wrong is wrong. Getting free mags from the US Government is wrong. Dice it up any way you want, it is wrong. When I think of gun owners, I think of people I can leave my car unlock at the range with all of my guns and accessories in it. I think of national match highpower and the vast majority of guys shooting there that are veterans. I think of honesty and integrity and doing the right thing. I trust those guys. Now I am going to have to watch out for Hal9k who will be out lurking for his freebies for the day because veterans deserve a free handout now and then. Real good representation of the veterans who have fought and died for this country. Does this mean I should stop using the equipment exchange here because no telling when a veteran seller is going to take my money from the new upper I want to buy and use it as part of his GI Bill?

just as bad as a welfare sucking scum bag in my book.

I just can't believe what I'm seeing here.

Honor and Integrity.  Go look them up.

dude we pay enough taxes, so what if 6 magazines were stolen.... that would cost the gubberment a whole $1.00 each?

anyway, who knows what they are.

For the people who say "oh its wrong to have stolen mags" a lot of the GI mags on the market were probably stolen.

Got to go with Sistema on this, though I doubt I would have made quite such a deal out of it

No, it's not cool to lift GI issue stuff and pass it on to a buddy. Hell, if you didn't pay for it, it's not even a real gift. That being said; can we just call it an error in judgement by a young man who maybe hasn't yet figured out some of his basic values, and considers halping out a friend more important than turning in a few mags?

I don't approve of the practice, but I also don't think it's worth the hoo-haw that the thread has turned into

I have lived long enough to figure out that if you can't be trusted in the little things, then you certainly can't be trusted in the big things.

If one will steal cheap government property, then they will steal from their buddies.  During my military service, if a man couldn't be trusted, then I didn't want him watching my back.

Why would one sacrifice their honor for a few cheap magazines.  (And I won't even justify the argument about how much we are paying in taxes with an answer.  It doesn't deserve one.)

Allot of units dont have enough weapon magazines to go around. This is why.....

I should add  that in allot of units magazines are kept track of and signed for on a 2062. God help a GI if he loses his.

Quoted: I have lived long enough to figure out that if you can't be trusted in the little things, then you certainly can't be trusted in the big things. If one will steal cheap government property, then they will steal from their buddies.  During my military service, if a man couldn't be trusted, then I didn't want him watching my back. Why would one sacrifice their honor for a few cheap magazines.  (And I won't even justify the argument about how much we are paying in taxes with an answer.  It doesn't deserve one.)

Puh-lease!!!

Sacrificing your honor?  What, did I miss something here?  This guy gave me some used mags he didn't sign for and the armorer didn't want back.  How is that sacrificing your honor?

He has offered to get me some more if I want them.  That also is sacrificing your honor?

Hmmmmmm……..

I would say the year my friend just spent in the wonderful paradise of Iraq should answer the honor question (at least for me anyway).  I guess the Purple Heart he received for wounds sustained when an RPG detonated inside his Bradley doesn’t count for anything either? How about the soldier  to whom he rendered first aid to keep him alive until the helo arrived to medevac him to safety?  Not only did he not “steal from his buddies”, his actions saved his buddy’s life.  Is that not honorable?  I have been on active duty with the USAF for almost 20 years and I have never seen combat.  I have no idea what combat is really like.  My friend has seen combat and has spilled his blood for our country.  I believe him to be a most honorable man.

Guys, sorry some of you have turned this thread into something it wasn't meant to be.

Everyone is entitled to voice his or her opinions on this or any other subject in this or any other forum (although I believed the initial subject I posted was helping me to ID a couple of mags - oh well).  That is one of the reasons our country is what it is today - a great place to live, where our military helps to protect our many freedoms.

If some of you took offense to one of my close friends "stealing" gov't property, so be it.  I am not going to enter into a debate of rightness or wrongness of the act.  I guess you would have just had to be there.  

As for me accepting more mags if he chooses to bring them, form your own opinions – some of you already have.

BUT, please don’t label my friend something he is not.  He has given his sweat, his heart, his soul and his blood for his comrades and his country.  If that is not honorable, I don’t know what is.

Thank God I am a pessimist.  I knew if I had unwisely decided to put more details of my friend in this post, some of you might try to cause him or I problems.

I think it would be best for those of you with issues regarding so-called “stolen” gov’t property re-direct your energy to thanking those soldiers, sailors, airmen, & Marines who by virtue of their blood, sweat and tears help to keep our country free.

Have a nice day.

Quoted: Quoted: I have lived long enough to figure out that if you can't be trusted in the little things, then you certainly can't be trusted in the big things. If one will steal cheap government property, then they will steal from their buddies.  During my military service, if a man couldn't be trusted, then I didn't want him watching my back. Why would one sacrifice their honor for a few cheap magazines.  (And I won't even justify the argument about how much we are paying in taxes with an answer.  It doesn't deserve one.) Puh-lease!!! Sacrificing your honor?  What, did I miss something here?  This guy gave me some used mags he didn't sign for and the armorer didn't want back.  How is that sacrificing your honor? He has offered to get me some more if I want them.  That also is sacrificing your honor? Hmmmmmm…….. I would say the year my friend just spent in the wonderful paradise of Iraq should answer the honor question (at least for me anyway).  I guess the Purple Heart he received for wounds sustained when an RPG detonated inside his Bradley doesn’t count for anything either? How about the soldier  to whom he rendered first aid to keep him alive until the helo arrived to medevac him to safety?  Not only did he not “steal from his buddies”, his actions saved his buddy’s life.  Is that not honorable?  I have been on active duty with the USAF for almost 20 years and I have never seen combat.  I have no idea what combat is really like.  My friend has seen combat and has spilled his blood for our country.  I believe him to be a most honorable man. Guys, sorry some of you have turned this thread into something it wasn't meant to be. Everyone is entitled to voice his or her opinions on this or any other subject in this or any other forum (although I believed the initial subject I posted was helping me to ID a couple of mags - oh well).  That is one of the reasons our country is what it is today - a great place to live, where our military helps to protect our many freedoms. If some of you took offense to one of my close friends "stealing" gov't property, so be it.  I am not going to enter into a debate of rightness or wrongness of the act.  I guess you would have just had to be there.   As for me accepting more mags if he chooses to bring them, form your own opinions – some of you already have. BUT, please don’t label my friend something he is not.  He has given his sweat, his heart, his soul and his blood for his comrades and his country.  If that is not honorable, I don’t know what is. Thank God I am a pessimist.  I knew if I had unwisely decided to put more details of my friend in this post, some of you might try to cause him or I problems. I think it would be best for those of you with issues regarding so-called “stolen” gov’t property re-direct your energy to thanking those soldiers, sailors, airmen, & Marines who by virtue of their blood, sweat and tears help to keep our country free. Have a nice day.

Cry me a freakin' river.

It's a shame that you choose to hide your friend's self-cheapening actions behind a bunch of flag waving.  Just because he did something right, doesn't make everything he does right.

Instead of us debating the issue, just have your friend go ask his CO if it's ok to pilfer the mags like he has been.  If the CO says it's ok, knock yourself out.  Somehow I doubt that would be his response, don't you?  But I'm sure that the CO doesn't understand the situation, either, right?

If it's ok to help yourself to some mags, where do we draw the line?  Ok, a single $5 mag isn't a big deal.  How about 10 of them?  100?  What's the magic number of mags that makes it wrong?  Or instead of quantity, is it a dollar amount?  Is it the size of the item?  Since morality and theft is a big ole grey area for you, why don't you let us know what's right and wrong.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I have lived long enough to figure out that if you can't be trusted in the little things, then you certainly can't be trusted in the big things. If one will steal cheap government property, then they will steal from their buddies.  During my military service, if a man couldn't be trusted, then I didn't want him watching my back. Why would one sacrifice their honor for a few cheap magazines.  (And I won't even justify the argument about how much we are paying in taxes with an answer.  It doesn't deserve one.) Puh-lease!!! Sacrificing your honor?  What, did I miss something here?  This guy gave me some used mags he didn't sign for and the armorer didn't want back.  How is that sacrificing your honor? He has offered to get me some more if I want them.  That also is sacrificing your honor? Hmmmmmm…….. I would say the year my friend just spent in the wonderful paradise of Iraq should answer the honor question (at least for me anyway).  I guess the Purple Heart he received for wounds sustained when an RPG detonated inside his Bradley doesn’t count for anything either? How about the soldier  to whom he rendered first aid to keep him alive until the helo arrived to medevac him to safety?  Not only did he not “steal from his buddies”, his actions saved his buddy’s life.  Is that not honorable?  I have been on active duty with the USAF for almost 20 years and I have never seen combat.  I have no idea what combat is really like.  My friend has seen combat and has spilled his blood for our country.  I believe him to be a most honorable man. Guys, sorry some of you have turned this thread into something it wasn't meant to be. Everyone is entitled to voice his or her opinions on this or any other subject in this or any other forum (although I believed the initial subject I posted was helping me to ID a couple of mags - oh well).  That is one of the reasons our country is what it is today - a great place to live, where our military helps to protect our many freedoms. If some of you took offense to one of my close friends "stealing" gov't property, so be it.  I am not going to enter into a debate of rightness or wrongness of the act.  I guess you would have just had to be there.   As for me accepting more mags if he chooses to bring them, form your own opinions – some of you already have. BUT, please don’t label my friend something he is not.  He has given his sweat, his heart, his soul and his blood for his comrades and his country.  If that is not honorable, I don’t know what is. Thank God I am a pessimist.  I knew if I had unwisely decided to put more details of my friend in this post, some of you might try to cause him or I problems. I think it would be best for those of you with issues regarding so-called “stolen” gov’t property re-direct your energy to thanking those soldiers, sailors, airmen, & Marines who by virtue of their blood, sweat and tears help to keep our country free. Have a nice day. Cry me a freakin' river. It's a shame that you choose to hide your friend's self-cheapening actions behind a bunch of flag waving.  Just because he did something right, doesn't make everything he does right. Instead of us debating the issue, just have your friend go ask his CO if it's ok to pilfer the mags like he has been.  If the CO says it's ok, knock yourself out.  Somehow I doubt that would be his response, don't you?  But I'm sure that the CO doesn't understand the situation, either, right? If it's ok to help yourself to some mags, where do we draw the line?  Ok, a single $5 mag isn't a big deal.  How about 10 of them?  100?  What's the magic number of mags that makes it wrong?  Or instead of quantity, is it a dollar amount?  Is it the size of the item?  Since morality and theft is a big ole grey area for you, why don't you let us know what's right and wrong.

Since morality and theft is a big ole grey area for you, why don't you let us know what's right and wrong

Nah,

I think I will leave that to you.  You seem to be very good at it.

Mods, could you please lock this topic?

I believe it has strayed way too far off course.  

All I wanted was some info on the mags -- I wasn't interested in philosophical discussions on the correctness of how I came to be in the possession of the mags.

Thanks to everyone who had something constructive to add to the original question.

For everyone else, go fuck yourself.

I know how age, experience and all that can wear a guy down, but right is right and wrong is wrong. Period. It is not  a multiple choice subject. An act cannot be deemed allowable just because nobody is looking, or your peers don't care. Syaing something belongs to the government only makes the conversation more convoluted. It can't be "the governments" money, cuz they took it from ME! This sounds similar to the level of character the last administration was noted for. I guess it would depend on what the meaning of IS is....

Waaaaaaay off-topic.