I posted this over at the CMP forums........

http://www.thecmp.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19158

The other day I tested some of my M2 AP (AYR 28) against an old 3/8” AR500 steel target. The target was hung at 200 and 100 yards with the back of the target against a wire fence. The target could not swing freely but it did have some give. Rifle used was a M1903 Springfield. The results surprised me. With the exception of one round, the AP did less damage than I expected although the damage to the steel plate was significant compared to non AP ammo. This plate was originally placed at a private shooting range and has withstood thousands of rounds without damage.

Target and Rifle



Multiple hits at edge of target. I believe the one pass thru is the result of the plate being slightly softer at the edges, probably a result of the cutting process. The pass thru was the first round fired at 200 yards.



Multiple hits at edge. Good shot of pass thru.



Back view of pass thru



Hit at 100 yards



Multiple hits at center



Hit at 200 yards center of target



100 and 200 yard splash together center of target (100 yd at 11:00)

Very similar results to mine. Only in my case the plate I was shooting at was thought to be regular mild steel. Surprised whe I went down range to see the minor damage from the M-2 AP! Edge shots did seem to do more damage, as you note, probably due to cutting...

Pretty amazing steel.

1DD

It would be interesting to shoot the same plate with a few M855 for a side by side comparison. Thanks for the post.

I'd like to see what my 300WinMag loads with the M2 AP would do to it.

3200fps as opposed to 2800fps

I would also like to see what my 50BMG with M2 would do to it.   Considering 50BMG AP is rated for around 1/2 inch of actual armor, if the plate has even a minor amount of give it may defeat the round.

I did a experiment with my brother and our target was a foot long piece  of railroad rail.  
Brother loaded an M2 AP in his 30-06 out of a ruger Model 77.. With the 06, the penetrator was left protruding from the front side of the rail.
I loaded up a M2 AP bullet in my 300 WSM and shot the same target.  Was like a hot knife through butter,  

Moral of the story - 400 fps does make a difference.

M-2 AP is spec'd to defeat .42" of "armor plate" at 100 feet. How is AR500 compared to "armor plate" (unknown mil.spec.) and would the difference between 100 feet and 100 yards be consistent with the results shown here?

1DD

No comparison between M855 and M2 AP.  The plate shown has been shot many times with M855.  At most you might have a small dimple.  You can see the dimples from previous strikes in the photos.

It would be interesting to see how this steel withstands bullet hits when rigidly mounted.  These particular shots were taken where there was some give in the target, although it could not swing.

Tell me about it.    I've got a 1 1/4 inch mild steel plate.   First starting load bumped the back side, second load over starting had sharp tips barely poking through, third load over starting had one go completely through at 100 yards.

Compare to my 50BMG which out of about 30+ hits I've only had 4 go completely through at 150-200 yards.

300WinMag puts the spanking on those bullets and even after 3200fps the cores captured and poking out the plate were still sharp.   Can't help but wonder what 3400fps from a 300RUM would be like.

My 308 FN AP cut through 3/8" 500 AR with no problems @200 yards, Leif posted the hardness of the AP penetrators, and the FN was only bested by bofors the tungsten carbide version, the US AP is not the best of what is available.

Interesting.  This ammo was the Norwegian M2 AP manufactured by NAMMO-Raufoss.   I wonder how it compares to the US stuff?

M2 AP in my opinion absolutely was the best compared to the M63 AP bullet which I've played with at length.   The M2 AP cores would still remain sharp at 300WinMag speeds while the M63 cores were obliterated and failing to penetrate.


I'd love to get my hands on the Hirt and Bofors bullets to try them out.

Got any pictures or specs on your M63 AP bullet or the parent cartridge?

It's just like the FN core but I suspect the cores are not hardened to the same level.   I've sectioned the M63 core and it's constructed just like the FN bullet.

Who made your M63 bullets and what country used them? Are you talking about U.S. M61 AP bullets?

The U.S. M61 cartridge used the T29 bullet on the far right in Ray Meketa's picture in the following thread:http://iaaforum.org/forum3/search.php?keywords=t93E2&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

Nope, bullet on the right is not the design.   Bullet in the photo you reference has lead both ahead of and behind the core.

If my bullets are not the FN bullet then they are a copy of it.   The design of my 150ish grain AP bullets has a small amount of lead at the end of the lead core at the base of the jacket.   The steel core is immediately underneath the tip of the jacket.


May have made an error referencing the M63 in that it appears to be a dummy cartridge and that M61 is the only US AP load over the years.