User Panel
ht
I can assume it will be a couple hundred ft slower out of my 16", but it should be great for plinking. Thanks for the posts Molon, I've learned alot from lurking and reading your range reports. |
|
Unfortunately, I didn't chronograph the PPU load from a 16" barrel. The Federal Tactical 62 grain BSP had a muzzle velocity that was 93 fps slower when fired from a Colt 6520, which has a 16" barrel with a NATO chamber and chrome lining. The Hornady 60 grain TAP load was 137 fps slower from the Colt 6520. M855 tends to run approximately 130 fps slower from a 16" barrel compared to a 20" barrel. |
|
|
The copper jacket on the PP bullet seems mighty thick.
ETA: Any reports out there of bad guys shot with TAP? How does the V-Max bullet do against bad guys? |
|
As usual, you did an outstanding test. I too have noticed that 60 gr V-max rounds shoot very small groups at 100 yards.
|
|
I was at a Hornady LE demo a few weeks back and got to shoot all of their .223 loads in balistic gel. The 40 gr. went in about 4-5 inches, 55 gr. in about 6-7 inches, 60 gr. 7-8 inches and the 75 gr. went in about 12+ inches. My department will be switching to the 60 or 75 gr stuff very soon. |
|
|
|
I just chronoed some this morning...see my post. It was a surprisingly warm 3025 FPS, ave for a 10 shot string...I hope this helps...my accuracy seemed to mirror Molon's results... |
|
|
Using a CED M2 (not an Ohler, but it works), from a 10 shot string of Prvi 62gr. I was getting: - 2803fps average out of a 14.5" barrel - 2850fps average out of a 16" barrel - 2952fps average out of a 20" barrel These aren't muzzle velocities, but what was recorded at the unit 10' away. |
|
|
Hmmmm . . . |
|
|
+1 ...particularly for those in behind socialist lines where LEAD BULLETS HAVE BEEN BANNED! Coming Soon to an Obama inspired state near you: www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/condor/ For those with Google Earth: www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/deer/docs/DeerZone52008.kml 53grn and 62grn evals would be great, if possible Perhaps Cor-Bon will offer a factory load of the 70grn TSX, www.barnesbullets.com/products/rifle/tsx-bullet/--note the recommended twist rates--, not to mention the higher BC/SD polymer tipped versions of each that are sure to come. www.barnesbullets.com/products/rifle/tipped-tsx-bullet/ (off topic, but check out the increase in BC for the .338 225grn, .386 to .514! If it shoots straight, it will be a truly versatile killer out of a .338Fed....but I digress.) |
||
|
COR-BON 62 grain DPX data added to the first post. |
|
|
Hmm the 62gr Barnes DPX seems to be capable of great accuracy but it looks like the factory loads arent quite there yet.
|
|
You've once again proved your worth to this site. Excellent work.
|
|
|
|
I really like the looks of the 53gr TSX as an all around defensive loading. The test was loaded a bit light but this weight would work in all my rifles bolts or autos no matter the age or twist rate.
|
|
Not necessarily. Due to their all copper construction, the Barnes TSX bullets are much longer than conventional copper jacket/lead core bullets of the same weight. The Barnes TSX bullets also have much lower specific gravities than conventionally constructed bullets. These factors combined require the Barnes TSX bullets to need a faster twist to stabilize them than conventional bullets of the same weight. |
|
|
Molon-
Thanks for the usual 110% effort on your post. Isn't that Barnes all-copper 62-gr X-projectile used in the Cor-Bon load similar to the new "Brown Tip" 5.56 Optimized ammo, which uses a 70-gr version the same bullet? |
|
Supposedly, yes. Lots of discussion on the subject here. The Barnes 70 grain TSX is a very long bullet for its weight and caliber. At a nominal length of 1.037" it is longer than the heavier 77 grain Sierra MatchKing. Besides being a long bullet, the 70 grain TSX has a specific gravity much lower than a copper jacketed/lead core bullet due to its sold copper construction. For example, the Hornady 75 grain BTHP has a specific gravity of approximately 10.3, while the Barnes 70 grain TSX has a specific gravity of only 8.9. The Barnes 70 grain TSX will be unstable from a 1:9" twist barrel with a gyroscopic stability factor of less than 1 at all velocities. The 70 grain TSX will only be marginally stable in a 1:8" twist barrel with a G.S.F. of 1.05 at 2500 fps. A 1:7" twist barrel will produce acceptable stability with the 70 grain TSX with a G.S.F. of 1.37 at 2500 fps. |
|
|
Wow! Your barrel likes the 60gr. V-max! all of my 20" barrels dislike it.I have not worked up anything in 16" yet.I will also be trying widener's 75 grain mil-spec copy (bulk pack hollow point boattail) soon and will try to post my results before cross bow season starts.Looks like the serb 62 gr. was a disappointment.
|
|
Great review. I've ordered some Federal LET3 stuff for my guns - any suggestions on how to test for reliability? I want a way to use a few rounds to test it because it is so expensive - I don't want to waste what little I have but know it will work... With cheaper ammo I load up a few mags of known reliability and then just blast away...
Spooky |
|
Molon--well done!
The 62 gr Federal TBBC JSP is an outstanding load; the Barnes TSX's also work well. Keep in mind, that with non-fragmenting bullet designs, heavier bullet weights are not necessarily better, especially at closer ranges and from shorter barrels. As long as penetration and upset remain adequate, it is possible to use lighter weight non-fragmenting bullets and still have outstanding terminal performance. Heavier bullets may have an advantage at longer ranges due to better BC and less wind drift. |
|
Noted! |
|
|
Great thread Moly!
Is there anywhere that a civilian can find the Gold Dot load? Take care |
|
Range results for the Speer LE 64 grain Gold Dot SP load added to the first post of the thread.
|
|
If this was directed towards me I meant where a civilian can purchase. Thanks |
|
|
Not directed at you, I simply meant that test results were now posted. |
||
|
Excellent Molon!
I think the Barnes TSX bullets are great barrier and knockdown rounds. They are likely to stay with the non-toxic fervor of "change" taking over. I also think that Barnes has a great opportunity in the AR market with their MRX bullet. The MRX tungsten core shortens the bullet substantially (heavier than lead), so we would likely see an MRX .224 in the 70-80 grain range stabilize nicely out of all our ARs. (Even if it does not have the delrin tip.) I have personally already been pushing them for this MRX on the phone and it may be good for others to put in a request as well, assuming you think it makes sense. |
|
That all-copper Barnes TSX bullet is a nasty little SOB. It is also the basis for the new US Military 5.56mm "optimized" round, but I think in a heavier 70-gr projectile...that's got to be a real upgrade to the M855 in terminal effectiveness, but also a more costly one, I'm sure.
|
|
I wouldn't be surprised if the new "brown"/"optimized" is a 70+grain MRX.
Just take a look at the .308 performance ballistic increase in the Barnes MRX 180 grain load by Federal when compared to the GoldMedal 168&175 and their other 180grn loads: http://www.federalpremium.com/products/rifle.aspx As you can see, according to Federal's their tests, it outperforms (ballistically) all other .308 loads, great wind drift resistance, energy and velocity at range, and substantially duplicating the 168 grain trajectory, albeit overtaking it at longer ranges. Assuming it paints well out of your rifle, the ballistics and terminal performance of this bullet puts it on the short list of all around choices. And its lead free, so it will be one of the last the enviro-libs rope off! |
|
Quoted:
I wouldn't be surprised if the new "brown"/"optimized" is a 70+grain MRX. Just take a look at the .308 performance ballistic increase in the Barnes MRX 180 grain load by Federal when compared to the GoldMedal 168&175 and their other 180grn loads: http://www.federalpremium.com/products/rifle.aspx As you can see, according to Federal's their tests, it outperforms (ballistically) all other .308 loads, great wind drift resistance, energy and velocity at range, and substantially duplicating the 168 grain trajectory, albeit overtaking it at longer ranges. Assuming it paints well out of your rifle, the ballistics and terminal performance of this bullet puts it on the short list of all around choices. And its lead free, so it will be one of the last the enviro-libs rope off! 5.56 Optimized Courtesy of DocGKR |
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I really like the looks of the 53gr TSX as an all around defensive loading. The test was loaded a bit light but this weight would work in all my rifles bolts or autos no matter the age or twist rate. Not necessarily. Due to their all copper construction, the Barnes TSX bullets are much longer than conventional copper jacket/lead core bullets of the same weight. The Barnes TSX bullets also have much lower specific gravities than conventionally constructed bullets. These factors combined require the Barnes TSX bullets to need a faster twist to stabilize them than conventional bullets of the same weight. Sample size of one, but I experienced another issue with DPX recently. I fired some of both DPX loads (53 gr & 62 gr) from a Colt 6920 (16" chrome lines bore, 1:7 twist). Using 30 rnd D&H USGI black teflon mags from 44mag, neither DPX load would feed. First round from a mag would hang up on the way to the chamber, then load if I pulled back the charhing handle & released again. Upon firing, the action failed to pick up the top round in the mag and the bolt closed on an empty chamber. I went through that 5 times on each DPX load in two different mags, with the same result. Then I took the remaining rounds out and loaded into a Colt 20 rnd mag that came with the carbine - worked fine. The same sort of D&H mags have fed everything else I've tried fine, and to verify that nothing had happened to these particular mags I tested them with some XM193 right after firing the DPX - no problems. So, the DPX stuff is apparently finicky about what mags you use. |
|
Quoted:
Sample size of one, but I experienced another issue with DPX recently. I fired some of both DPX loads (53 gr & 62 gr) from a Colt 6920 (16" chrome lines bore, 1:7 twist). Using 30 rnd D&H USGI black teflon mags from 44mag, neither DPX load would feed. First round from a mag would hang up on the way to the chamber, then load if I pulled back the charhing handle & released again. Upon firing, the action failed to pick up the top round in the mag and the bolt closed on an empty chamber. I went through that 5 times on each DPX load in two different mags, with the same result. Then I took the remaining rounds out and loaded into a Colt 20 rnd mag that came with the carbine - worked fine. The same sort of D&H mags have fed everything else I've tried fine, and to verify that nothing had happened to these particular mags I tested them with some XM193 right after firing the DPX - no problems. So, the DPX stuff is apparently finicky about what mags you use. Interesting. Can anyone comment on why this may be occurring? |
|
I've shot the 62 gr. DPX in both a Colt 6721 and an LMT with Brownell's mags and PMags with no issues whatsoever.
|
|
Remington 62 grain Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded PSP data added to first post. |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.