User Panel
Has anyone tested to see if the POI for 75gr 5.56 TAP with the T2 bullet is similar to the 75gr .223 Black hills round? I'm just wondering if the Black Hills blue box would be a suitable training round given that it is cheaper than the TAP and given that the TAP practice rounds are AWOL.
|
|
|
Thought I would bump this back up to see if anyone had an answer.
|
|
When the government's boot is on your throat, whether it is a left boot or a right boot is of no consequence.
|
Thanks! Just what I was looking for.
|
|
When the government's boot is on your throat, whether it is a left boot or a right boot is of no consequence.
|
Would someone who has the ability, drop all these inconsequential posts, and take the important stuff and make a pfd document out of all this valuable information?
For Christsakes....do it for the Children! |
|
Guns? Guns? I don't have any guns. Now Uncle Fester down the road, he has some guns, and occasionally he lets me shoot them.
|
As usual, great info and presentation.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: You need to market your reloads! Scott |
|
"I've ascended to the top...of a two rung ladder." Me
"You're unique and special...just like everyone else." My wife "I'll be heading out west on Hwy 14, apparently there's a car out here that went rhubarbin'." WPD230 |
GREAT JOB AS ALWAYS
|
|
|
Jesus H. Christ! Do you have a machine rest for an arm? Of course the counter guy at the gunshop the other day told me he could hold 1/10 MOA at 1000yds so keep working on it!
This thread is amazing. Thanks Molon for all the valuable info. |
|
The UN. All the grace, skill and talent of a spastic monkey fucking a football. -- Airwolf 7/8/06
|
Nice job. That powder looks like H4895.
|
|
Visit www.68forums.com for all the info on the Remington 6.8SPC.
|
I was just thinking the same thing. |
||
|
So what you are telling me is the several hundred rounds of Hornady 75 grain I've got won't perform well in my Colt 16" 1in9? Am I better going with the 60 grain TAP, polymer tipped spitzer flat base? I can still get those for 12 bucks a box.
|
|
|
Each barrel is different. Try a box of the 75 Gr. at 100 yards and see if it will stabilize and if it is accurate enough for you. If your barrel doesn't like it, try the 60 and 55 Gr. TAP. Just keep in mind that the 55 and 60 Gr. TAP does not penetrate all that much, but it is still great against soft targets. |
||
Visit www.68forums.com for all the info on the Remington 6.8SPC.
|
What about the 62gr Hornady TAP Barrier round? My distributor carries that two... |
|||
|
I have been using the TAP 62 gr. Barrier round as a duty load for a while now. It seems to be very accurate out of both my AR's. One is a Colt AR6721 and an LMT MRP. |
||||
|
|
I see red x's.
|
|
|
Beautiful job. Great presentation.
|
|
|
excellent
|
|
"I have two guns, one for each of you!" Doc holliday
|
Whopee, I have 3,000 rounds of the least accurate load.
What, by way of comparison, is the mean radius of M855? |
|
|
Hornady 6.8mm SPC 110 grain TAP versus 110 grain V-MAX
The ballistic gelatin testing done by Dr. G.K. Roberts has shown that the Hornady 75 grain OTM bullets have the best terminal performance of any commercially available loaded ammunition for the 223/5.56mm cartridge. Additional testing done with the 6.8mm SPC cartridge by Dr Roberts has shown that the 6.8mm SPC “offers a substantial increase in terminal performance for AR15 carbines.” With this in mind, I thought it would be interesting to take a look at the 6.8mm SPC. 223 TAP gel shot courtesy of Dr GK Roberts 6.8mm SPC gel shots 110 TAP courtesy of Dr GK Roberts courtesy of Dr GK Roberts As this thread has been primarily devoted to the testing and evaluation of Hornady’s 75 grain TAP loads, I thought an evaluation of Hornady’s 110 grain TAP loads for the 6.8mm SPC cartridge would be a good starting point for the evaluation of this cartridge. The test vehicle for this evaluation was a custom upper built around a 16” Noveske Recon barrel chambered for the 6.8mm SPC cartridge. The barrel is stainless steel and has polygonal rifling with a 1:10” twist. As the title of this post states, this initial comparison is between Hornady’s 110 grain TAP load and the 110 grain V-MAX load. Upon visual inspection, the two loads appear to be identical. Both loads use the 0.277” 110 grain V-MAX bullet with a cannelure. Both loads have a crimp at the case neck (no case mouth sealant.) Both loads have a similar charge of a charcoal colored, short-cut extruded powder. The head-stamp of both loads reads, “Hornady 6.8mm REM SPC”. Both loads have a crimped primer (no primer sealant.) If you were to place a few rounds of each load on a table in front of me, I wouldn’t be able to tell the two loads apart. The 110 grain V-MAX bullet is pictured below along with other bullets of the same caliber produced by Hornady. The evaluation began with chronograph testing. Since I already had the chronograph set-up, I also chronographed two other 6.8mm SPC loads from Hornady; their 110 grain BTHP TAP load and the “Custom” 110 grain BTHP/WC load. (Other than the different box that they came in, these two loads also appeared identical to each other.) An Oehler 35-P chronograph with “proof screen” technology was used in testing. All strings of fire consisted of 10 shots each. All velocities listed are muzzle velocities, as calculated from instrumental velocities using Oehler’s Ballistic Explorer software. Accuracy testing was performed from a bench-rest at 100 yards using a Leupold Vari-X III set at 25 power for sighting. Wind conditions were monitored using a Wind Probe. All groups consisted of 10-shots each. Prior to testing the Hornady ammunition, I fired three 10-shot groups in a row using a control load that utilized hand-loaded 115 Sierra MatchKings. The extreme spreads for those groups measured: 0.99” 1.00” 1.12” for a 10-shot group grand average of 1.04”. Following my usual procedure for evaluating the accuracy of ammunition, I overlayed these three 10-shot groups on each other using the RSI Shooting Lab software program to form a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius for this 30-shot composite group was 0.37”. best 10-shot group of control load In order to remove as much of the operator variability as practically possible and to give the Hornady ammunition every opportunity to prove itself, I fired five 10-shot groups of the Hornady ammunition from 100 yards and used the best three groups for evaluation. Starting with the Hornady 110 grain TAP load, the three 10-shot groups used for evaluation had extreme spreads of: 1.73” 2.08” 2.14” for a 10-shot group grand average of 1.98”. As above, these three groups were overlayed on each other to form a 30-shot composite group with a mean radius of 0.69”. smallest 10-shot group of 110 TAP The three 10-shot groups of the Hornady 110 grain V-MAX load obtained for evaluation had extreme spreads of: 2.43” 2.59” 2.74” for a 10-shot group grand average of 2.57”. The mean radius for the 30-shot composite group was 0.75” The composite groups are shown below side-by-side for comparison. smallest 10-shot group of 110 V-MAX 30-shot composite groups Additional 6.8mm SPC chronograph data. |
|
|
Great job Molon. Are you going to try the SSA 115 Gr. SMK?
|
|
Visit www.68forums.com for all the info on the Remington 6.8SPC.
|
FWIW...
While loading up mags for a weekend shoot, The following two flawed rounds were found out of a single 200rd case of Hornady 8126N (5.56 T2 TAP) (Lot# 3071004)... The first round (A) has a mis-shaped / deformed bullet. Though this round would probably have fired just fine...It's likely that that deformation would have adversely affected both the shot's accuracy and ballistics. Here's a shot of the round... The second round (B) is flawed in a more serious manner, having a split and bulged case neck. Here's a side-view look at the round... (Sorry it not in better focus...) The point of this post is simply to ALWAYS visually inspect each round of ammo either before, or as you load it. I have purchased and fired literally thousands of Honady's T2 TAP cartridges, and while I have only rarely encountered any problems (less than ten to date)... please know that no "factory" ammo company is perfect, and that even a "top tier" case of ammo can contain flaws. Hope this helps... FlDiveCop71 |
|
One is just never enough...
|
A friend tried some SSA vs Hornady TAP 6.8 and the SA was easily shooting groups half the size of the Hornady. The Hornady 6.8 loads suck IMO. They might have some great terminal ballistics but the soft point hunting loads will smoke the Hornady loads using the match ammo so I am sure the SA loads using the SMK will crush the Hornady OTM loads.
|
|
|
Molon-
Outstanding stuff and a great scientific effort. Since I have a few boxes of the 75-gr .223 Hornady Match and I am curious...did you ever do frag range testing for the 3 barrels (14.5, 16 & 20) with this bullet? It seems a bit different from the 75-gr TAP bullet in that it does not have a cannellure and this might impact fragmentation. Please advise it you have the info. Thanks, phoenix27 |
|
|
Seems like the 6.8mm ammo is doing +100fps less than it did during DOCGKR's testing. Load it hot for the early testing and then castrate it in production....
|
|
|
The problem with Hornady is that they use commercial powder because of all the SAAMI chambers still around. SSA is the only company that produces regular and combat loaded ammo which is the right thing to do. |
||
Visit www.68forums.com for all the info on the Remington 6.8SPC.
|
The cannelure, or lack there of, has no effect on fragmentation. |
||
|
Great job on the 6.8 Molon. Your Avg MV (2540) is identical to the result I obtained with my 16" stainless from Randal. Though I noted a SD roughly 1/3 of the one you obtained. The SD you show looks more like my handloads.
|
|
Visit www.MD-AR15.com
"All Arfcommers should wear thier multicam smoking jackets or jammies around the house in anticipation of JBT tasering/dog shooting/civil rights violation or the occasional impromptu gangbanger street theater." - m24sh |
|
Take a look at the Remington loads in the above post. |
||
|
Molon,
What is your opinion of the 6.8? Compared say to the .223 or 5.56 in the 75 grain variety? Is it that much better? |
|
Guns? Guns? I don't have any guns. Now Uncle Fester down the road, he has some guns, and occasionally he lets me shoot them.
|
[editorial mode on] It's clear that the 6.8mm SPC has superior terminal ballistics compared to the heavy OTM loads in .223/5.56. It's also clear (to me at least) that factory loaded ammunition for the 6.8mm SPC has some accuracy issues to be worked out (and not just the Hornady loads that I tested for this thread. I won't even post the results of some of the Remington ammunition I tested.) I do realize the 6.8mm SPC was developed as a combat cartridge, not a target round, but so was the Hornady 5.56mm TAP load and it has demonstrated much better accuracy than the factory loaded 6.8mm SPC ammunition that I tested. During my very limited testing of factory loaded 6.8mm SPC ammunition, I had several failures to feed. I also experienced failures of the bolt to lock back after the last round of the magazine was fired when using a rifle length buffer tube/receiver extension. I'd personally like to see more powders developed specifically for the 6.8mm SPC and made available to reloaders as well as a wider variety of bullets designed specifically for the 6.8m SPC (not just generic .277 bullets.) IMHO the 6.8mm SPC has an amazing potential, but I'm not trading in all my .223/5.56 uppers just yet. [editorial mode off] |
||
All hail Jeanne Assam!
|
OST
|
|
كافر - Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas ... Accuracy, Power, Speed.
|
OSB
Old School Bump |
|
All hail Jeanne Assam!
|
All hail Jeanne Assam!
|
bump
|
|
|
Shooting from a 16" barrel you state that .223 tap fpd frags out to 115 yrds. Is there
really any advantage to this round over a 55 fmj that frags at the same distance? I can see where the nato version extends frags to 185 yrds & is advantagous. Does the tap fpd still offer more lethality at longer ranges? Does it still break in half at longer range but not frag? |
|
|
First off, let's start with more of an apples to apples comparison, ie a .223 pressure 55 grain FMJ load versus a .223 pressure 75 grain OTM load. You'll be lucky to find a .223 pressure 55 grain FMJ load that does more than 2,950 fps from a 16" NATO chambered barrel. As the generally accepted fragmentation threshold for a 55 grain FMJ bullet is 2,700 fps, that gives you a fragmentation range of only 65 yards (not 115 yards as you stated.) If all you gained with the use of the 75 grain TAP load was the additional 50 yards of fragmentation range, that would be a huge advantage right there.
Now, take a look at a representative gel shot from a .223 55 grain FMJ load, (in this particular case American Eagle at a velocity of 2869 fps.) Compare that to a gel shot from a round of .223 75 grain TAP. |
|
All hail Jeanne Assam!
|
I answered this question in another thread but the advantages would include... Lower flash of the 75 grain ammo Earlier yaw and fragmentation More consistant fragmentation Larger wound profile More retained mass through certain intermediate barriers Better accuracy Reduced wind drift at range Increased wound profile when the bullet yaws and does not deform Negatives would be Decreased ability to penetrate certain barriers due to velocity Increased cost Increased drop at closer ranges due to reduced velocity |
||
|
I noticed that the 6.8mm loads used in the gel testing above are going about 150fps faster than what 'real' factory loads are actually going.
|
|
|
For those of you who aren't already aware, the 75 grain BTHP bullet loaded by Prvi Partizan in their Match Line of ammunition, is now available as a reloading component. With a little comparative shopping and buying in large amounts this bullet can be purchased for a very reasonable price. |
|||
All hail Jeanne Assam!
|
Who sells them? |
||
|
Look here:
http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=8438&dir=278|281|727 |
|
|
Anyone test if PPU 75gr HPBT frags and at what velocities?
|
|
|
All hail Jeanne Assam!
|
Not that I know of... it could have early or late yaw (see 77 grain Sierra vs Hornady 75/Nosler 77) it could also have a thicker or stronger copper alloy in the jacket or more antimony in the lead resulting in less fragmentation or a decrease in the fragmentation range at a given velocity. Untill you see ballistic testing done, Privi 75 bullets are not a cheaper rplacement for Hornady or Nosler bullets for defensive ammunition IMO. |
||
|
Thanks for the test data!
|
|
What's the 1st thing you do when you wake up? - I draw down on myself..then scratch my ass -- RazorHKUSP45
|
Nice review of the 6.8 TAP Molon!
|
|
GreenWolf70:If you oppose MartyW on anything, Cold goes into 12 year old screaming girl attack mode ...
<font color=blue><font size=3> www.458SOCOMforums.com www.68Forums.com </font id=s3></font id=blue> Quis custodiet ipsos custode |
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.