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Posted: 10/12/2005 5:05:29 AM EDT
[#1]
I just sold my last 1/9 AR for a 6920. As long as there is M855 I am happy, in fact I am thinking about trying to find somebody to trade me some of it for the M193 I have.
I wouldn't get too worked up. I am sure that somebody will fill the void, they would be stupid not to manufacture something that there is such a demand for. Just make sure that the stuff you buy is to spec and performs like real m193. |
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Posted: 10/12/2005 4:42:04 PM EDT
[#2]
This is the first I have heard on this. Does anyone else have any information???
I don't know how many 1:12 barrels are still floating around out there in the National Guard and reserves. As far as the 1:9 twist barrels, I thought that it was the optimum twist for 62 grain bullets. If that's the case, then the only thing you would have to worry about is if you have an A1 style barrel. Even if you do, I think that there will always be 55 grain rounds available. Just maybe not M193 spec. Maybe there is too much emphasis placed on meeting the M193 spec anyway? O.K., I better duck now!! 
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Posted: 10/12/2005 4:47:57 PM EDT
[#3]
The nice thing about the XM193 is that it's good for stockpiling AND plinking. I'd hate to see it go away.
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Posted: 10/12/2005 7:48:11 PM EDT
[#4]
I'm not completely sure it's going away, but I have plenty just in case. There is no doubt that the supply has dwindled. If it does disappear, blame the democrats and vote them all out.
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Posted: 10/12/2005 8:12:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Yes, right, never mind that it's disappearance would only be the result of of it being completely phased out by M855, which was adopted 25 years ago when Ronnie was taking over. Yeah, Clinton made it harder to get (no surplus ammo, just budget surpluses;) but has nothing to do with it disappearing (if it does), that would only be the result for the phase out being completely. BTW, what has Bush done for the 2nd amendment in the past 5 years? He even said he'd approve reinstating the AWB. Go on... 
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Posted: 10/12/2005 8:43:49 PM EDT
[#6]
Gore or Kerry would have definitely done more for the 2nd amendment. 
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Posted: 10/12/2005 11:00:35 PM EDT
[#7]
IN THE EVENT, that XM193 is no longer available... could a company load up brass with the same amount/type of gunpowder, and manufacture a reasonable alternative with the same wounding/ballistic chracteristics? Oh yeah, and price too?
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Posted: 10/12/2005 11:26:17 PM EDT
[#8]
It seems logical that sooner or later it will go away, as the need for it will be no more once the older 1:12 twist rifles are replaced with new ones.
At that point, we'll either buy M855 if we want mil spec or be forced to use something else (or reload). I like M193 spec ammo, but I'm not gonna lose any sleep when it eventually becomes unavailable. I'll just buy the commercial stuff then for stocking large quantities and plinking and keep a smaller amount of the more expensive OTM ammo around for things that go bump in the night. The commercial stuff may not be as hot and may not have the same fragmentation range, but if that's all that's available that's affordable, then that's what I will stock in large amounts. As far as wounding potential goes for SHTF scenarios, I'm not so sure that commercial spec 55 gr is really all that outclassed by M855 anyway to be honest. And it's quite a bit cheaper. |
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Posted: 10/12/2005 11:39:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Well, not to be the "Chicken Little" of the group but I've been talking to the manager of the product support group of ATK/Federal and he said that both XM193 and XM855 (and PD versions) are no longer available to Federal to sell. They are both going away. The reason given was that all capacity was needed for the military and the reason there was so much recently available was that during the ramp up for war production there were more lots that didn't meet mil specs so it was sold as XMxxx. Now, all of the 193 is being used by the military for training and the 855 is being shipped to the war zone. The XM may come back but not soon and will be very limited based on failed lots whereas before overruns were boxed and sold as XM193 and XM855. I tried to talk him into putting this in writing but you know how that goes. I'll post more when I hear back from him on other matters.
FFF |
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Posted: 10/13/2005 2:25:23 AM EDT
[#10]
This is encouraging............www.cougarridgetradingpost.com/223ammo.htm But again how long will they or IMI continue mass producing this without military contract orders for it. I think I will shoot ( pun intended) Winchester an email about their plans to continue this ammo. |
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Posted: 10/13/2005 7:18:30 AM EDT
[#11]
Here's a link to the Army's most recent budget submission - no future Army procurement of M193: Link. Look at page 13 of the .pdf document. I am not sure if the other Services are buying M193. But as Charging_Handle stated, eventually all the older M16-series rifles (slower twist barrels that use M193 ammo) will be displaced by M16A2/3/4s and M4s that use M855 ammo, along with the next generation combat rifle (be it 5.56 or whatever), and the requirement/need for M193 ammo disappears. |
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Posted: 10/13/2005 7:24:19 AM EDT
[#12]
I'll probably start making counterfeit XM193 soon!
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Posted: 10/13/2005 7:42:07 AM EDT
[#13]
By my logic, if the military is done using M193m, then that is more for the civilan market! Why would Federal stop production of an item they can sell big on??? |
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Posted: 10/13/2005 7:54:50 AM EDT
[#14]
We have been beneficiaries of the economy of scale of the military ordering zillions of rounds of XM193 - with some leftover scraps coming our way. When the US military stops ordering it - the civilian demand will be insufficient to keep an XM193 manufacturing line operation going. I'm going to watch for buying opportunities and grab what I can when the price is right. CWO |
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Posted: 10/13/2005 8:55:13 AM EDT
[#15]
+1. As far as I know, only Lake City would be producing M193 ammo. A government-owned plant cannot make ammo for the commercial market (remember, we only get the LC QC rejects). Once there are no more demands for M193 they will convert bullet production to make all M855. Second souce suppliers of government MIL-SPEC 5.56 ammo are delivering M855 ammo, not M193 (again, no demand). |
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Posted: 10/13/2005 10:00:00 AM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 10/13/2005 1:00:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Exactly!! I'm not gonna sit here and say that every republican is a champion of gun owners, but over 95% of the anti-gunners money goes to the democratic party. In case you don't keep up with the news and politics, trust me, the democratic party is bad for gun owners, period. From my experience, even the ones who claim that they support the 2nd ammendment can be wishy washy. Now I must say, as a Virginian I have been pleasantly suprised by our Democratic governor Mark Warner. He has signed off on a bunch of pro-gun, pro-hunting, and pro-concealed carry stuff and has been praised by the NRA so far. But who knows with politicians, they will generally default to the position with the most cash. |
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Posted: 10/13/2005 3:29:40 PM EDT
[#18]
Thanks. Thats exactly what I was looking for. I guess Federal XM193 will become a fond memory in the not too distant future.  |
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Posted: 10/13/2005 7:25:04 PM EDT
[#19]
You must be kidding. The democrats are the fucking nightmare of the state that I live in, as well as the country. New Jersey is so fucked up in so many ways due to democrats like the dick sucking Jim Mac-something it might take generations to repair. They hate terms like "military spec ammo" and plan to ban guns in this state if elected to another pathetic term. And no, I do not believe the war is the reason for the shortage. I'm pretty sure someone could and would invest in an ammo production company that made 5.56 only to fill the gap, but where are they at this oppertune time? Being held up by democrats, I'm sure. |
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