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Page AR-15 » Ammunition
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 1/4/2005 11:38:03 AM EDT

OK, so I've seen various statements from dealers, and I've been following discussions here on ar15.com, to the effect "there will be no more IMI Win Q3131A" and "no more Federal boxed XM193, and loose XM193PD is getting harder to obtain" ...  So, the following is my understanding:
* The military is issuing M855 (almost?) exclusively for combat.
* conventional wisdom is that M193 is better suited to civilian arms and civilian uses than M855.
* The loose XM193 is marked "Training Only" leading me to assume  that Federal rates it as less than suitable for life-threatening situations.

So, this leads to several questions I'm hoping can be answered by knowledgeable folks in the ammunition industry:
1. is GI "combat" grade M193 simply going to disappear?
2. would this also happen to the loose "training only" stuff?
3. How exactly does Federal decide a round is boxed (combat suitable) or loose (training only)?
4. Is Federal (and IMI) simply too swamped with .gov orders for M855 to make M193 for civilian sale?

This soap-opera is killing me!  :)
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 12:03:11 PM EDT
[#1]
It just dawned on me the "training only" loose stuff may be perfectly fine but because its all mixed headstamps there is no way to trace a bad lot. Therefore: training only just in case some is bad. Just a guess.
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 1:23:22 PM EDT
[#2]
And another question:

What's stopping another manufacturer from making M193-spec ammunition?  For example, Remington isn't supplying the military (that I know of), why won't they step in and fill this void in the consumer market?  People who buy this ammuntion buy $200 worth at a time, so wouldn't this be an attractive opportunity for a manufacturer?  Who can do it?
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 1:26:42 PM EDT
[#3]

Quoted:
And another question:

What's stopping another manufacturer from making M193-spec ammunition?  For example, Remington isn't supplying the military (that I know of), why won't they step in and fill this void in the consumer market?  People who buy this ammuntion buy $200 worth at a time, so wouldn't this be an attractive opportunity for a manufacturer?  Who can do it?



Remington can't even make enough 6.8SPC, so don't hold your breath on that one.
I think that XM193 / Q3131A will be available again because it is cheaper to make than M855. It might be a while though.
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 1:32:13 PM EDT
[#4]

Quoted:
Remington can't even make enough 6.8SPC, so don't hold your breath on that one.



You get the point though.  There is big, juicy low-hanging fruit to be grabbed here by some other company.  First-quality M193 manufactured by another company would compete well against mixed-lot, multi-year XM193PD floor sweepings.

EDIT: I think I'm hijacking the thread a bit.  If so, I apologize.  Punching out.
Link Posted: 1/4/2005 11:03:16 PM EDT
[#5]
It can only be made affordably if you already have access to the .gov's high speed machines and loading plant.  Another manufacturer could build such a plant but then peace could break out all over the world leaving them with no market.  I suspect that some of the excess resources (brass ,loading machines, production tech time ect.. ) earlier allowed to go to towards producing XM193 have been used to produce M855 for the military. So even though the military doesn't buy much M193 the demand for M855 will effect  how much XM193 Fedral can get to us (remember if Uncle Sam ain't happy with LC ain't nobody happy).

I am waiting for some resourceful folks to search out all that overseas milsurp 5.56 that could be made available but we will probably have to get to a real ammo shortage first (I hear talk of an ammo shortage but I can still get it at my local store). I'd like some new production South African and they don't seem to be at war currently. If they could call it XBattle-packs to satisfy those who don't think that the little people can be trusted with Military Ammo.  
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AR Sponsor: bravocompany
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