The folks at Chiappa told me that they have released their M4-22 and product is already shipping.  They told me that it will be distributed by ATI and it's a complete upper with bolt for around 300.00 !  If it's anything like their 1911-22 looks like I will have to add a M4-22 to my list.  

Be very aware that these are being "Marketed in the USA".
God knows which 3rd world country they're being made in.
The quality could be all over the board depending on which
child assembled them, the day of the week and whether it's in
the first hour of the days work or the 20th hour.

You get what you pay for or less in these cases.

Prove me wrong and I'll shut up and even apologize. I'm writing
this to protect those here with less firearm experience than some
of us here have. Please buy known quality. Cheap stuff always
ends up costing you more... I've never heard of this company until today.
Enlighten me.

Odd, you're from Ohio too?

Spec

ATI also marketed the GSG, and in my opinion......not so good.

The Chiappa 1911's have been out for a few months or so maybe and talked about in other forums here and elsewhere on the web.  You need to get out of this sub-forum once in a while.

There's no doubt they are a "low-cost" solution that will appeal to some/many, but long term, it's anyone's guess.  Let the fun begin...

I wasn't impressed with their 1911 so I can only imagine how cheap the AR upper is made.

I would strongly suggest paying the extra bucks and getting a Tactical Solutions upper (top notch).

Get out of the sub forums??? You mean there is more here.

I went and looked some more at this company, read some of the articles and reviews.
even watched the video about the 1911-22.

Found that this company uses an alloy of some unspecified composition in their products.
The main company is in Italy with some operations here in the U.S.A..


I built my first 1911 about 30 years ago and have owned several Colt Conversions. I would consider
the Kimber or a couple others that I've seen. I don't like the words "Unknown Alloy" I figure the Colt
Conversions were good for half a million rounds. Kimber should do about the same. This $300.00
version, I think Not. For a very casual shooter on a budget, maybe it's a winner.

As far as their 22 upper? Send me one and I will give it a fair test and evaluation but you can expect
to see my honest opinion in the write up. And, you can expect that I will shoot the crap out of it. I'll
disassemble it to find out if it's just like the Colt/Walther/Umerex... That's my offer...............

Colt wouldn't send one of theirs and I have several real Colts, S&W wouldn't either and I have 7 of their pistols.
Wilson combat should have but didn't agree. I have used Wilson Combat Parts on every 1911 I have built. A Lot.


SpecOps-13

Funny as in Italian "Chiappa" means buttock

It actually just means "cheek". Butt cheek is more the "vulgar" reference.  Kind of like the term "bitch" in English.

Means buttock. Cheek is "guancia", that unless you're referring to a butt-head, they're quite different

http://www.chiappafirearms.com/product/172


http://dealer.americantactical.us/products?product=543

Here's some links I found at Chiappa's & ATI's websites.  We have two of the 1911-22's and they shoot great!  I have over 10,000 rds thru mine with no problem.  The guys I spoke with told me the M4-22 is just as reliable as the 1911-22 and extremely accurate.  They will be sponsoring some tactical rimfire matches at some of the local ranges near Dayton, I hope to try one and see.  I have tried the DPMS & Tactical Solutions and both were very finicky on what they would shoot.  I have a M-261 conversion which works great but not very accurate, I was looking for a 1 X 16 twist barrel for it, but I think I'm going to try the Chiappa as soon as I can find one available.

First, quite honestly my Tac Sol is so darn dependable its boring!

As for this offering from ATI, we will wait and see. If I have a problem with my Spikes, Tac Sol, or CMMG product I know support is standing by. If I need a part its made here and they will get it to me. As for the ATI parts, well, we just don't know. ATI seems a good company but they are depending on a parts supply from Italy. I have lived in Europe and have have had to do business with products from Italy here in the states. Sadly sometimes they seem to be in a different reality from the rest of us. Need something right now? Well, back in Italy they are sorry but that part won't be available until "later". When is "later"? "Well, not now, but sometime....certainly by next summer".... They just never seem to be in a hurry nor care. If you push them they just walk away and put you off.  I use to work for a company that depended on parts from Italy. It was a nightmare at times waiting. Anyway, maybe things are different now.

The price on this upper is good. But, how will it work and hold up:? My other question is magazines. Where are they? How much are they? How will they hold up? If we knew these things we could make a more honest appraisal of this product. Right now, I will stick with my Tac Sol. It cost a bit more, but man is it a well made, perfect functioning piece of mechanical art.

Snap On Tools (and if you know tools you know that name) use to say, "We would rather explain the price of quality than make excuses for anything less".

Or, as I use to tell my business students, "Price is what you pay, Value is what you get."   Or, in simple English:  You may pay a bit more, but if it is a great product it is worth it.

Read elsewhere somebody claiming to know folks at Chiappa, says Chiappa's pot metal is zinc and aluminum, which is one of the standards. Reportedly this alloy takes some level of bluing, to allow the money to go into materials.

From Snipers Hide:

AM Re: Chiappa 1911-22 [Re: cheezdoggie]
M Allen Offline
Private First Class

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 1
Loc: Ohio
I spoke to the guy that developed the Chiappa 1911, he told me that "Chiappalloy" is their own formula of Zinc Alum Alloy that actually "Blues" and their standard pistol has the finish it has to save cost. He showed me one that looked exactly like a '70s vintage Colt 70 series and he said their Target model will probably have that finish. He told me that they had to sacrifice somewhere to make a 300.00 retail pricepoint, and they chose the finish, they did not want to sacrifice on accuracy or reliability. I have no doubt, I have over 10K rds through mine and I love it! It seem to get better with every shot. Then he showed me the M-4 .22 cal upper they are building, which will be my next purchase!!

Note that this is the guy's first post on the forum.

Don't confuse the colloquail translation with the traditional translation.  Hence why I said the "vulgar" (or informal if you prefer) translation is butt cheek, whereas cheek is the traditional (non-vulgar) translation.

The guys at Chiappa are avid shooters, we see them at the ranges here in the Dayton area often.  MAllen is right on on the blueing!  I have done a lot of custom work to my 1911 already, the Chiappalloy machines very easy and blues with cold blue for instant finishing.   The M4 upper they showed be has a polymer receiver and a steel barrel.  Not sure if their alloy is used in it or not?  The mag was polymer as well and is suppose to be interchangable with Black Dog mags.  They told me that there are some being evaluated by some of the local PD's.  I saw a prototype that they were shooting at a range nearly a year ago, their production uppers  look a lot better than the first one I saw.  I begged, but they won't sell direct, they said I had to wait until ATI started distributing them??

Here's my 1911-22 I have tricked out!  10,000 rds + and going strong!!

Spec

i will have to check this one out at this years shot show but as of now my thoughts are that if i was going to buy an upper with a plastic receiver i would rather just spend the extra $100 and get a complete rifle from S&W.

They look "like" your mags.

You can watch the vid here. Notice how they edit for jams?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKurclXX9WA&feature=player_embedded

They really do look like BDM Mags... The upper seems to work fine.
The alloy still concerns me but maybe they have a breakthrough in
metallurgy. I just don't know what to think?????????????
Hot Link to Video.

Spec

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKurclXX9WA&feature=player_embedded

The pics here depict very BDM-like mags...

However, the manual depicts a mag with a button on the follower to ease loading - that would really help to facilitate repeated reloading of the mag.

If the Chiappa is an Atchisson based design, perhaps their mags will work with JAC and Spikes kits too.

ETA - their manual also lists mags with 5, 10, 15, 29/30 round capacities and it indicates both 16" and a 12" barrel lengths.

Its when the "ZINC" word comes up in firearms I get worried. Even in a .22 it scares me. I know, some have said they had zinc alloy guns that worked well, and I believe they have. But personally, and maybe because I have been at this way too long, zinc worries me. But, when I do a bit of searching I find this info:

Zinc alloys

So, I am open to seeing how these do. But still, my Tac Sol is so good that anything less would seem, well.....less.

It would be nice if anyone who owns one could do an honest report on his new investment, I am really leaning towards a Spikes Tactical, heard many good things about them and every time I call there the people are just super nice......

I've tested the options that Spike's has available in standard lengths. In the
case of conversions and dedicated uppers, they've proven themselves.
If you want proven accuracy and reliability I would suggest you buy there.
The people and products at Spike's are 1st class. That has been proven time
and again.

These new uppers we're checking out here still need to be proven. I have
reservations and concerns with them and would like to thrash one before
saying they are good or bad. That's the only way to know.


Spec

I looked at the owners manual and it appears they have modified the upper to make it easier to manufacture.  I noticed  the rear plate which the slide rails are attached are connected  by pins or screws instead of being welded as on the Ciener pattern.  The recoil spring has a different attachment at the front of the bolt and may or may  not be robust.  The end of the barrel is not threaded for the barrel extension.  The barrel extension has a small screw that goes into a corresponding hole in the top of the barrel and the barrel extension slides onto the rear of the barrel.  I can't tell if the barrel has a liner and a shroud or is totally constructed out of steel.  The mags appear to be copies of the BDM mags but don't show any screws for holding the two halves together.  The follower includes a loading tab and an opening in the side of the mag similar to the S&W MP 15-22.  Throw in that the upper is polymer and the upper just doesn't appear as well made as the Spikes, Tactical Solutions or CMMG.  Who knows if the firing pin, extractor or other small parts are interchangeable with the Ciener pattern bolt.  The Velocity upper appears to be made better which I  passed on buying and I'd pass on this one.  I feel you get what you pay for and for the difference in money I think I'd buy American!

"I feel you get what you pay for and for the difference in money I think I'd buy American!"

Amen, Brother

The jury is still out on this one. I'm kinda waiting to hear back from NiteRgr.
He was going to test fire one at the range in Ohio. It will be interesting to
hear what he thinks after firing one....

I believe he really does know some of the people at the Chiappa Plant so we may
have some insider info too.... Wait and See.

Spec

Yes, if I had it my way, I'd buy American every time but there are so many
things not made here any more.. Even WalMart sold us out after the old man died.....

OK, I got to spend some time on a range yesterday with one of the Chiappa M4-22 conversions.  here's what I found:

-The upper assembly is an exact profile copy of the M4, with the dustcover closed you can not tell it's not a 5.56
-The barrel is solid steel, 1 in 16 twist rate.  The Flash Hider / Muzzle Brake is not threaded on, it is held with a set screw.  I was told this was to comply with distributors  and areas who have restrictions on threaded barrels.  However, the diameter is .500" and I was shown one that was threaded and was simply done by running a 1/2 28 die down the end, the profile and diameter is ready for a die, nothing else was necessary and it worked well.
-The upper receiver is made of a carbon fiber reinforced polymer with a matte finish that matched well with the RR receiver it was on.  It is a flat top without any reference markings, they told me that future production will be marked.  The receiver has a functioning dustcover and a non-functioning forward assist to maintain the M4 profile.
- The handguards are CAR handguards made of same polymer as receiver without heatshield which is probably not needed for .22
- Front sight is just like a AR and is made of "Chiappalloy" and front sight post is milspec.  The sight is retained with a set screw under neath and can be easily removed if you want to run without sight or for free float tube.  The bayonet lug is for appearance only, it is non-functioning for the same reason the barrel is not threaded. The finish was very nice and actually looked much better than any of my milspec sights.
- They had several sight options we tried, the red dot was probably the fastest and most fun, but the standard A4 sight kept everything in prospective.
- Accuracy was exactly what I had imagined it would be, at 15 yds I could put the rounds in the same hole.  We could only shoot out to 25 yds and I was cutting dime sized groups with every type of ammo that I tried.
- Reliability was decent for a conversion, I have experince with several conversions that have been on the market over the past 20 years and this one was on par with any of them, and better than most.  CCI Minimags ran thru it like butter, as did the Federal bulk pack.  I tried some Eley sport and we had some DNF's and some Remington Target loads DNF's and failed to extract resulting in the most stovepipes of any ammo tried.  They pulled the hammer spring and with a tweak with some pliers the Eley Sport fired OK with only an occasional stove pipe, but no DNF's.  The Remington Target loads and some bulk pack Remington had numerous DNF's and fail to chamber.  When the chamber was cleaned, it would cycle the Remington High Velocity but quickly load up and fail to chamber.  We tried some Winchester Wildcats and to my surprise it fired them without a hitch!!
- The magazine has a thumb slide which made loading a breeze, I just had to keep tension on the rounds otherwise they would go everydirection in the mag and you would have to dump and start over.
- The bolt is made of alloy and steel very similar to the S&W .22, it looked like a hybrid of the ceiner and S&W.

They told me that the suggested retail was 349.00 but that they could probably be bought for well under 300.00  They have already started shipping to ATI and should be in distribution soon.  I tried to get one for a few days to T&E and they said that they just don't have enough to go around, but when some come back in they would consider it.  For the price they quoted, and the performance that I saw, I know that I will probaly be adding it to my list of "gotta have it"  I had my camera with me but my battery was dead, so I didn't get a chance to shoot any pics.

Excellent report.... A lot of the features seem to make modifications easy to accomplish.
Sorry they couldn't let you have one for T&E but companies have to fill their orders first.
That's true with everyone I've worked with. I hope that sometime soon one frees up and
you will have the opportunity to do a full evaluation with pictures. From what you've written,
I can tell that you will do well. I still think they should let you keep the one you test, it's only fair.
You may well generate many thousands of dollars in sales by doing a good T&E Write Up here
at ARFCOM.


Spec

Good report. If the price is right this is good for everyone. It gives the other builders some good old fashion American way competition. We need that to keep consumer prices in line. It also helps those on a budget that restricts them from dropping $600 on a .22 upper.

Will I buy one? No reason to. I have a very fine Tac Sol upper, a conversion in a spare M4 that shoots very well. I have all these magazines..why switch? But  I hope these work out. Its a great product for ATI and I am sure they will sell all of them they can make.

there is also a discussion of this in the ATI industry forum with some user feedback.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=356&t=182662

I'm interested in one and ATI being the distributor makes me feel better about it if there would be a problem. ATI has established a solid rep for taking care of their customers, just read the GSG-5 forum and there's plenty of proof that they will do everything possible to make it right if there is a problem.

Anyone have a pic of the bolt?  If they are under $300 or less I might risk it.

Are these the same as what AKpartskits is selling?
http://akpartskits.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=505
They have the same polymer upper. has anyone tried them out?

Not the same kit - do a search before folks come in here and start bitching about Vulcan/Hesse/Blackthorne.

Yeah if we see them at the $250 mark I may get one too.  I would like a threaded barrel though for the suppressor.

Would love to hear of more reviews on this!

I would like more reviews as well. I was eyeing the velocity firearms .22 upper but not many reviews on it either that I can find.

I heard that Velocity Firearms upper isn't that good

So when/where can one get the Chiappa .22 upper for under $300?
ATI & Copes both have them at $349.99.

anyone else try these out yet?

When these things are new they will most likely keep the price up at the $349 level. Why sell them for less when the other domestically produced ones are in the $500-$600 range? As they start meeting demand and the competition heats up you may find some discounted. Then again, there are some places that will discount everything. Give it a few months and see what happens.

From what we hear so far it appears they may be a good value. I think the fact ATI is involved in this is good as they have a track record of good service and that is really needed in this market. For $300 I would buy one, just for fun and to have something different.

I bought one with the anticipation of using it in my M16 and was disappointed.  The upper is advertised as working in an M16 and Chiappa even has a video on their website showing it firing in full-auto.  This is not the case.  The upper does not come with any way of tripping the auto sear.  A call to Chiappa revealed that they are not able to get it to work reliably in full-auto.  When they can get it to work they will be offering an "upgrade kit" for approx $35.00 which will include a trip and new anti-bounce weight.  The upper comes with an anti-bounce weight installed although it is a different design than Ciener's.  I tried installing a trip from a Ciener kit and while it fits, it does not work.  It looks like the specs are off from the Ciener kit.  The rear of the bolt, which activates the trip, is much thicker than a Ciener bolt and trips the sear too early and actually does not allow the bolt to completely close.  I couldn't get it to fire more than one round on auto as the hammer follows the bolt home because the hammer is not being held back by the auto sear near the end of the firing cycle.  The upper appears well made for what it is.  The flash hider is indeed held on with a setscrew but is up to spec to be threaded with a die.  I ran a 1/2x28 die on a pilot down the muzzle and it threaded very nicely.

clc3251 - Is there anyway you can post a picture of the bolt assembly.  I found the schematic and it looks very similar to the Tac Sol bolt design.  Of course the schematic is just a drawing and you can't tell what it really looks like (finish, etc.)

Or, does it look like the one in this second post:  http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=15&t=474395

Ok nice, I think Im going to order one only one thing that is bothering me. I seen a flyer where they are selling them to distributors for $269 and  retail is $350? damn thats crazy.

Here you go
http://i49.tinypic.com/116kefl.jpg

The bolt looks nice but looks heavy. Whats up with the booty in the rear?

Where can a dealer get the good price? I don't see them in the main stream wholesalers.

Thanks.  Looks closer to a Tac Sol than a Ciener, although it has something behind the bolt that is very different.

I don't know about the M4-22, but many iof the deringers are assembled in west Dayton, Ohio at the old E-check station and the 3rd world child that was assembling last year was our son........

Dan

That margin looks about right, maybe a little light for some resellers.  Keep in mind that all resellers have different cost structures and adjust their margins accordingly - some even sell above MSRP and create their own inflated MSRP to make it look like they have discount prices.  When a product is new or hard to get, everyone tries to get as much as they can for it, sometimes even above MSRP.

The best thing anyone that wants one of these can do is to not get impatient.  This is not a top of the line product nor is it likely to be subject to any banning, so the price will come down as it gets out there and more resellers have access to it.  If they have a wholesale cost of $269, I would expect they will be down to $289 or $299 sooner or later, otherwise most folks will be better off going with a complete M&P 15 which isn't much more, or just getting a real .22 AR upper which also isn't much more.

I had some money burning a hole in my pocket so I decided to order one from cope's.  It arrived today and upon inspecting it I noticed that even though the set screw was tight, the front sight had some play in it.  After messing with it for awhile I was fairly sure it wasn't going anywhere so I gave it a good cleaning.  When I went to attach it to my lower (stag) I noticed the pins were REALLY tight going through the upper.  It took some oil and some serious "massaging" to get the front pin through.  

With all that done I finally headed out to shoot.  It was in high teens with a slight wind and I was cold as hell, but damn it I had waited on this all week so I was determined to do some shooting.  I put 100 rounds of cci mini mags through it.  I was shooting off-handed from about 15 yards away and once I got the sights dialed in I was putting rounds in groups about the size of a 50 cent piece firing once every 1-2 seconds.  The only problem I had was that on about the 90th round  I had 1 stove pipe which I cleared and fired the rest of the mag as quick as I could.  

Overall it's a fun little toy and only time will tell how well it holds up.  I think with a scope and a bench rest it will be pretty damn accurate.  I want to thread the barrel, put an aluminum upper receiver on it and definately replace the front sight.  Knowing all that now, if I had it to do over again I would have probably just went with an M&P 15-22.