interesting

Very Nice - looks promising.  I think it's great to have several "piston" options available.  It'll be interesting to see which, if any, of the systems ends up being a frontrunner.

Does anyone know of any independent tests comparing the available piston systems?

Any plans for a rifle version???  Seems like the rifle length guys get left out sometimes.

I the photos (R&G063~1.jpg) there appears to be very little clearance between the piston and the rail system.

Is there something to protect the piston if the rail gets pushed against it by impact. Or, will the rail rub against the piston?

I the photos (R&G063~1.jpg) there appears to be very little clearance between the piston and the rail system.

Is there something to protect the piston if the rail gets pushed against it by impact. Or, will the rail rub against the piston?

Quoted: Faster target acquisition because of decrease muzzle rise.

a piston does this?

nice kit, but priced about $200 to high.

Most other systems include a carrier and cost about $400

$500.00 is too much for this shooter. Once more of these companies start all pumping out piston-systems, the prices will get competitive and finally drop.

I'm going to have to add another "I'd try it if it were $300".  

agreed looks interesting but WAY too much money

and it is still $250 too much.
there are practically identical options out now,
for less.and with the same "metal".
there is not $500 of innovation there.
thanks anyway.

wow, that is really really expensive.

What comparable gas systems are there for $300? Are you talking about that ARES (now Bushmaster)? Or how about the Osprey Defense OPS-416? You have to understand that those and similar systems rely completely on the gas tube hole and roll pin in the standard A2 FSB for support. In the short time gas piston retrofit systems have become popular, I have read several reports of peoples breaking at the roll pin or the shoulder where the system makes contact with the FSB. This usually takes a lot of rounds or rapid fire, but I don't want to pay $300 for worse reliability. Wasn't the purpose of a piston system better reliability?

The only systems that seem to compare structurally are the primary weapons system (PWS) and LWRC, but you have to send it in to them and it's going to cost you just as much. The PWS also requires permanent modification to the barrel by drilling out the gas port larger. LMT is coming out with one that seems promising, but you are required to purchase an entire new upper at $1400 unless you already have an MRP, but it will still cost you more. Bushmaster ACR will probably have a good gas system, but thats another $1500. POF is certainly much more expensive. What else?...the HK416 maybe...LOL. Hmmmm. So, once again, what GOOD piston system in cheaper and a true retrofit?

You have two choices: buy cheap and shitty or a little more and far superior. If you want cheap you might as well not even buy a piston system and save your money all together.

Also, it seems it is the only piston system that is offered for all different gas system lengths, and some different calibers it looks like. I know a lot of people with mid-length systems who want a gas piston.

So far this is looking good compared to any other system, but only time will tell how good the system holds up to its promises as more people report on it. I hope it's as good as it looks. The design sure looks good and makes a lot of sense

Looks great. The price seems ok. Its just that the piston craze is in full motion and everybody is looking for an inexpensive piston system. The first company to price a piston conversion in the $200-$300 range will rape the compitition. I think the "average guy AR shooter" wants a piston, just not bad enough to pay for an already great shooting DI AR15 to become a piston for a $500 kit.

Looks like a great product, but I must agree with the others. The only thing holding it back is the price.

A nice innovation Fal style front gas block and a replacement gas key instead of a complete bolt.
In my opinion it is not a fix but possibly an upgrade or maybe just a modification.
At $500.00 it's a no go.
My gas operated ar's have been at work 2 for 30 years, never broken just hot and dirty.
Best wishes with your en devour.

Is changing the gas setting just a matter of pulling out the knob in the front and rotating it, like the Noveske switchblock?  That's certainly a nice feature, but it seems to be missing from the advertising text (I saw it at the end of the installation instructions).

Not a fan of screw-tension gas blocks. Maybe---just maybe---if it utilized set screws WITH deep dimpling. I'd prefer pinned, but set screws with deep dimpling is the least I'd go. I don't trust screw tension to hold things. One good bump and it gets knocked ever so slightly out of kilter, then you're screwed.

However, nice to see another addition to the piston community. Good luck!

rough crowd on arfcom

Quoted: rough crowd on arfcom

as usual!

when you want brutal honesty, look no further than ARFCOM!



i do agree about the price, but that's because i'm dirt poor. i think that your product is cool and innovative, i just can't spend that kind of money. i wish y'all luck and maybe one day i will have the scratch for one.

You guys are the first that are touting increased accuracy in a piston system.  I also think you are going to find out that the gas block needs to be pinned.

I think your Gas Piston System looks really nice.  BUT, I think that you need to bring the price down.  Your $200 more than the Ares GSR System, that comes with an entire Bolt Carrier, intead of Replacement Bolt Carrier Key.  The real early (maybe First Commercial) Gas Piston system was the RHINO, made by Walt Langendorfer in Lansdowne Pa.  His system sold for $200.00 back in the early '80's.
I'd really like to see a Gas Piston System that I could put on an A1 (rifle length) Barrelled Upper, and keep it lightweight.



Chief

Come down $100, make a kit for a DPMS LR308, ll think about it.

Quoted: Quoted: Not a fan of screw-tension gas blocks. Maybe---just maybe---if it utilized set screws WITH deep dimpling. I'd prefer pinned, but set screws with deep dimpling is the least I'd go. I don't trust screw tension to hold things. One good bump and it gets knocked ever so slightly out of kilter, then you're screwed. However, nice to see another addition to the piston community. Good luck! You need to get third party feed back concerning this statement! We have put close to 10,000 rounds though the same gas block with the same two screws with no treadlocker, and have not seen any form of forward movement, twisting movement, or torsion on the gas block. In fact after the gas block and screws have been heated up from firing the rifle they become tighter (more difficult to back out). We saw no deformation of the treads when we inspected the screws after several thousand rounds of fire.

This subject has been covered many times on ARFCOM and there have been many accounts of the screw gas blocks to get knocked out of whack when bumped on things.

GAS BLOCK MUST AT LEAST USE A SET SCREW TO HOLD IT IN PLACE!

Do you have a pistol length available ?

Quoted: Quoted: Do you have a pistol length available ? Yes we do. Check out the video. 7" SBR with AR15Fix in Full Auto.

good stuff

I have read reports of carrier tilt and gouging of the buffer tubes in your system in 150 rounds. How many rounds have you put through your system in testing? How bad does the gouging get before it stabilizes?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not a fan of screw-tension gas blocks. Maybe---just maybe---if it utilized set screws WITH deep dimpling. I'd prefer pinned, but set screws with deep dimpling is the least I'd go. I don't trust screw tension to hold things. One good bump and it gets knocked ever so slightly out of kilter, then you're screwed. However, nice to see another addition to the piston community. Good luck! You need to get third party feed back concerning this statement! We have put close to 10,000 rounds though the same gas block with the same two screws with no treadlocker, and have not seen any form of forward movement, twisting movement, or torsion on the gas block. In fact after the gas block and screws have been heated up from firing the rifle they become tighter (more difficult to back out). We saw no deformation of the treads when we inspected the screws after several thousand rounds of fire. This subject has been covered many times on ARFCOM and there have been many accounts of the screw gas blocks to get knocked out of whack when bumped on things. GAS BLOCK MUST AT LEAST USE A SET SCREW TO HOLD IT IN PLACE! What I ment by third party feed back is, those that have tested our system. Not other piston systems, but an Adams Arms system.

I know what you meant, but your system doesn't change the fact that your gas block is a clamp on.  There is much first hand experience of many different clamp on gas blocks getting moved out of place through hard use (read people that use their rifles for work).  You should really rethink your clamp on gas block.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not a fan of screw-tension gas blocks. Maybe---just maybe---if it utilized set screws WITH deep dimpling. I'd prefer pinned, but set screws with deep dimpling is the least I'd go. I don't trust screw tension to hold things. One good bump and it gets knocked ever so slightly out of kilter, then you're screwed. However, nice to see another addition to the piston community. Good luck! You need to get third party feed back concerning this statement! We have put close to 10,000 rounds though the same gas block with the same two screws with no treadlocker, and have not seen any form of forward movement, twisting movement, or torsion on the gas block. In fact after the gas block and screws have been heated up from firing the rifle they become tighter (more difficult to back out). We saw no deformation of the treads when we inspected the screws after several thousand rounds of fire. This subject has been covered many times on ARFCOM and there have been many accounts of the screw gas blocks to get knocked out of whack when bumped on things. GAS BLOCK MUST AT LEAST USE A SET SCREW TO HOLD IT IN PLACE! I didnt see an Issue with the clamp on block, I used the supplied loctite and it was Rock Soild. The only problem Is they Never sent me one to play around with.

I am willing to bet that if you whacked the gas block on the ground it would move.  Put ONE simple set screw in the design and it would not move under the same circumstances.  Cross bolt that bitch and it will outlast the barrel.

So,my GG&G rails won't work with this conversion on my Colt 11.5" SBR?

Quoted: I have read reports of carrier tilt and gouging of the buffer tubes in your system in 150 rounds. How many rounds have you put through your system in testing? How bad does the gouging get before it stabilizes? ?????????????????

Quoted: So,my GG&G rails won't work with this conversion on my Colt 11.5" SBR?

Thats what Im wondering. Will the kit work with other rail systems? I would like to see what it looks installed using a Troy MRF free float rather than the DD. I would be very intrested in buying a kit if I knew the block rail would be same plane as my troy rail.

Have you done some kind of lube free test? Id like to see how it runs on a completly dry carbine. and how many rounds before failure.


You should offer a limited number of kits to a few guys for a discounted price and request a range report.



ETA- have you ran a tone of WOLF with the fix yet? sorry for all the questions

Some of you guys are amazing. Everytime a new product hits the market, the "I would have done it this way", or "why didn't you do it this way", or it's too much money", experts come out of the wood work. These guys came up with a product no one else has been able to do. A gas piston retrofit for short barrels, but oh no. It doesn't shit gold and cost a dollar.

Same crap happened when the AR45 lower was first introduced. The very firsts posts were from guys who weren't happy with the GG mag and asked why we didn't use Thompson mags.

Do you guys have any idea how much time and money it costs to do R&D a new product from scratch? Plus the costs of tooling and machinery, marketing, etc. Can't afford it, save up for one or don't buy one but quit shitting on the product or the company because you can't afford it.

Some guys want custom parts made to their exact specs, machined in an hour after 27 changes in design, cost a dollar and will still ask for free shipping. WTF?



I applaud these guys for overcoming an obstacle others weren't able to and introduced a product that the industry customers have been asking for. Adam Arms, ignore the "NAY" sayers and keep on with your products.

Bill Putnam
Owner
Tango Chaser Tactical, LLC

height=8

Quoted: Some of you guys are amazing. Everytime a new product hits the market, the "I would have done it this way", or "why didn't you do it this way", or it's too much money", experts come out of the wood work. These guys came up with a product no one else has been able to do. A gas piston retrofit for short barrels, but oh no. It doesn't shit gold and cost a dollar. Same crap happened when the AR45 lower was first introduced. The very firsts posts were from guys who weren't happy with the GG mag and asked why we didn't use Thompson mags. Do you guys have any idea how much time and money it costs to do R&D a new product from scratch? Plus the costs of tooling and machinery, marketing, etc. Can't afford it, save up for one or don't buy one but quit shitting on the product or the company because you can't afford it. Some guys want custom parts made to their exact specs, machined in an hour after 27 changes in design, cost a dollar and will still ask for free shipping. WTF? I applaud these guys for overcoming an obstacle others weren't able to and introduced a product that the industry customers have been asking for. Adam Arms, ignore the "NAY" sayers and keep on with your products. Bill Putnam Owner Tango Chaser Tactical, LLC

LOL. Well said Tango. I like the shit gold and cost a dollar quote.

height=8

Quoted: I think your Gas Piston System looks really nice.  BUT, I think that you need to bring the price down.  Your $200 more than the Ares GSR System... Chief

The important question to ask yourself here is whether the ARES system is worth $300 in the first place. As stated earlier, the ARES system merely uses a piece of gas tube that fits into the FSB just as the gas tube does in a direct impingement system. Do you really want your piston system to rely on a piece of weak gas tube? Is that the quality you want to pay $300 for? In that case, I would rather spend absolutely no money and stick with the direct impingement system. $0 is far cheaper than $300.

The A2 FSB was not designed for a piston system, nor is it suitable for one; therefore, a new FSB designed specifically for a piston system is needed. The Adams Arms system comes with this gas block. The gas block adds many other benefits as well, such as front access for cleaning, rather than taking the handguards off and removing the whole system.

The only system you can compare it to is the PWS, which is $100 cheaper, but not a drop in retrofit. The upper must be sent in for installation and the barrel gas port is drilled out bigger due to reliability issues. The PWS system has more moving parts--the piston and another small metal part move around inside the op-rod housing. All these extra parts, including the op-rod housing, add extra weight. The AA system has no internal moving parts--the "piston" and op-rod are all one piece, eliminating the need for the extra weight of an op-rod housing.

PWS system parts...Notice the operating rod (attached to carrier), housing, cap, and two internal moving parts.
http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/catalog/piston_1.jpg

Compare this to the Adams Arms kit. The long piece on the bottom is the piston/op-rod, which is one solid piece of metal--no moving parts or housing
http://www.adamsarms.net/images/gallery/AdamsArms11sml.jpg

The way I see it, you are paying a $100 more than the next comparable system for lighter weight, no moving parts, saving your barrel from permanent modification, and not having to send your upper in (additional costs of shipping).

One further note...Would it be more ideal to have the FSB pinned? I don't know, maybe--I certainly wouldn't mind, but then it wouldn't be an end-user drop-in system since different barrels have pin holes drilled at different places. If installed properly, I do not see how it could be twisted off center with virtually any force. If a force is great enough to do that, the cause of the force (maybe a truck running over the rifle) would likely ruin the entire gun along with it. An example of this is the triple clamps on a MX motorcycle; these endure thousands of pounds of force from jumping and crashes, and only allow twisting of the forks when a crash is serious enough, but then the whole bike is trashed at that point. While this is not a perfect analogy, I am just saying that mere clamping pressure can be stronger than you might think.