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Posted: 1/24/2011 3:28:24 PM EDT
[#1]
Here is the only place you are allowed to ask this type of question in the Retro Forum.
Love the wear on that rifle. 
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Posted: 1/24/2011 3:59:42 PM EDT
[#2]
That is number 000124. If it is altered to serve the semi-auto market, someone needs to be beat senseless with a 1-14 barrel.
It may need some restoration (missing the auto sear?), but that is beautiful. (I'd love to have that stock for my brown build...but NO––breaking it up would be wrong!) What are the ownership laws in Italy?? |
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Posted: 1/24/2011 4:33:29 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: Here is the only place you are allowed to ask this type of question in the Retro Forum. Love the wear on that rifle. Thanks for the heads up hk45shooter. Should I ask to close this thread and start back there? @OIGunner: you mean that is THE 124TH AR15 rifle ever produced? I don't think... I mean, tell me I'm wrong. What do you see wrong with the autosear pin hole? it looks out of spec actually.. can it be an alteration already? Gun laws... let's see.. Worse than Texas, better than California..  5rd mags for new guns, 10 round mags for older imports. We don't give a shit about pistol grips, barrel shrouds or flash hiders, as long as they're pinned/welded in place. Since you could just screw a silencer on that thread... oh, wait, silencers are illegal anyways.. No full auto, whatsoever. Firearm must be totally, positively rendered unsuitable for full auto functioning. This means that you can find hacksawed-off BCG lower tails, or some more polite job, depending on the importer, as well as welded autosear pin holes, and some not-so-nice modifications. But, we don't have the "once a machinegun...." thing, here. Oh, and that rifle is lucky to show a ".223" designation. you know military calibers are verboten. |
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Posted: 1/24/2011 4:42:09 PM EDT
[#4]
Beautiful early 601. I can't tell but the buttstock looks to be painted black.
But what is really fantastic is the fact that the rear swivel is rotated 180 degrees. That is the first one I've ever seen outside of a book ! Thank you so much for posting the link. Snag this rifle if you can. 
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Posted: 1/24/2011 4:47:09 PM EDT
[#5]
Is it posible this buttpad has an Armalite logo on it also?
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Posted: 1/24/2011 4:55:10 PM EDT
[#6]
I also just noticed that there is another hole just under the firing pin retainer hole. Looks to be a solid pin of sorts? Maybe the machined retainer pin broke and was lost, and this was done to make a pin stay in if it broke? Who knows. Looks weird. Just pure speculation on my part.
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Posted: 1/24/2011 4:58:17 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
@OIGunner: you mean that is THE 124TH AR15 rifle ever produced? I don't think... I mean, tell me I'm wrong. What do you see wrong with the autosear pin hole? it looks out of spec actually.. can it be an alteration already? No, not the 124th. It is the 25th (twenty-fifth) AR15 ever produced (except for the prototypes). The production run started with #000100. |
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Posted: 1/24/2011 5:16:24 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Here is the only place you are allowed to ask this type of question in the Retro Forum. Love the wear on that rifle. Thanks for the heads up hk45shooter. Should I ask to close this thread and start back there? @OIGunner: you mean that is THE 124TH AR15 rifle ever produced? I don't think... I mean, tell me I'm wrong. What do you see wrong with the autosear pin hole? it looks out of spec actually.. can it be an alteration already? Gun laws... let's see.. Worse than Texas, better than California..
5rd mags for new guns, 10 round mags for older imports. We don't give a shit about pistol grips, barrel shrouds or flash hiders, as long as they're pinned/welded in place. Since you could just screw a silencer on that thread... oh, wait, silencers are illegal anyways.. No full auto, whatsoever. Firearm must be totally, positively rendered unsuitable for full auto functioning. This means that you can find hacksawed-off BCG lower tails, or some more polite job, depending on the importer, as well as welded autosear pin holes, and some not-so-nice modifications. But, we don't have the "once a machinegun...." thing, here. Oh, and that rifle is lucky to show a ".223" designation. you know military calibers are verboten. Is there NO way to own an automatic there? I would just hate to see that rifle destroyed––and converting it to semi-auto would be, effectively, destroying it. The first few rifles produced supposedly had bare brown furniture (I've heard the first 100 rifles) and this does appear to be one of those. After that first hundred, the rest had black-painted or green-painted furniture. The stock is a Type A and I'd love to see good photos of the insides of those handguards. I'd also love to see the buffer tube––it looks to have a beautiful color. Would like to see its condition. Triangular charging handle, dimpled pins and selector, early bolt catch, horizontal lines mag catch button... looks like the correct rear sight...chrome BCG... I'd really like to know what markings are on the barrel, but from what's shown it looks to be all original. From the right side, though, it looks like the sear pin is missing. The left side photos do show a pin, though... Is this currently configured as an automatic? |
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Posted: 1/24/2011 5:37:23 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Thanks for the heads up hk45shooter. Should I ask to close this thread and start back there? That would be up to a moderator, I don't know what would be right. Sorry. Quoted:
Beautiful early 601. I can't tell but the buttstock looks to be painted black. But what is really fantastic is the fact that the rear swivel is rotated 180 degrees. That is the first one I've ever seen outside of a book ! Thank you so much for posting the link. Snag this rifle if you can. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff160/nosepiece/7514919.jpg Awesome catch Private!! 
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Posted: 1/24/2011 5:52:19 PM EDT
[#10]
Why, yes, I went through and saved all the pictures.
Beautiful 601! |
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Posted: 1/24/2011 5:54:31 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Beautiful early 601. I can't tell but the buttstock looks to be painted black. But what is really fantastic is the fact that the rear swivel is rotated 180 degrees. That is the first one I've ever seen outside of a book ! Thank you so much for posting the link. Snag this rifle if you can. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff160/nosepiece/7514919.jpg Hard to be sure of the color on the stock...in the shots with the stock, the pistol grip looks dark, too. We need better-lit pics of the stock and the stripped BCG...and the barrel and gas tube and buffer and... Hell, someone needs to detail strip that thing and break out the camera! (At least they show the round dust cover catch!) |
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Posted: 1/24/2011 7:09:28 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Beautiful early 601. I can't tell but the buttstock looks to be painted black. But what is really fantastic is the fact that the rear swivel is rotated 180 degrees. That is the first one I've ever seen outside of a book ! Thank you so much for posting the link. Snag this rifle if you can. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff160/nosepiece/7514919.jpg Hard to be sure of the color on the stock...in the shots with the stock, the pistol grip looks dark, too. We need better-lit pics of the stock and the stripped BCG...and the barrel and gas tube and buffer and... Hell, someone needs to detail strip that thing and break out the camera! (At least they show the round dust cover catch!) Dang straight OlGunner. I mean realy,who cares what color the buffer tube is. Now that's just silly. 
People like us. That's who cares. Thanks for the laugh OlGunner.
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Posted: 1/24/2011 7:15:36 PM EDT
[#13]
The stock and pistol grip look dark brown to me, about the same color as the set I have. It is a shame that it can't be shipped and sold to someone here.
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Posted: 1/24/2011 8:05:09 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
The stock and pistol grip look dark brown to me, about the same color as the set I have. It is a shame that it can't be shipped and sold to someone here. I'd be first in line to place a bid. I actually feel like I'm betraying #748 by lusting after #124! 
I can't believe something like that just shows up in a free classified ad over there! I just hope we can get more photos before what ever happens to it...happens. |
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Posted: 1/24/2011 8:10:22 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Now, what would be the actual value of such a rifle ( NFA madness aside ) on the US market? thanks in avance! I hope Aimles will forgive the faux pas. We really are looking at some high quality photos of history. Just a stretch here but I think something approaching six figures would be my guess for such an early specimen. Quoted:
That is number 000124. If it is altered to serve the semi-auto market, someone needs to be beat senseless with a 1-14 barrel. NOOOOO!! Use a H-BAR 1/7. 1-14 barrels are too valuable .
Quoted:
From the right side, though, it looks like the sear pin is missing. The left side photos do show a pin, though... Is this currently configured as an automatic? It looks like it is missing to me. If you zoom in on the left side I think what you are thinking is glare from the pin may actually light reflecting from the open hole on the other side. Quoted:
I also just noticed that there is another hole just under the firing pin retainer hole. Looks to be a solid pin of sorts? Maybe the machined retainer pin broke and was lost, and this was done to make a pin stay in if it broke? Who knows. Looks weird. Just pure speculation on my part. I'm guessing it was just a machining OOPS. The hole looks to have been started in the wrong location and is just full of gunk now. Quoted:
The stock and pistol grip look dark brown to me, about the same color as the set I have. I agree. Picture #5 shows that both the stock and PG are actually brown. |
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Posted: 1/24/2011 8:39:31 PM EDT
[#16]
The front sling swivel is held on by a rivet, not a roll pin it looks like.
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Posted: 1/24/2011 8:47:17 PM EDT
[#17]
For anyone without a translater available,here is the text,note what they say about having to have the importers name engraved into the housing tho
  And the duckbill translates to "spark arrester"
Conditions: Used:: With signs of wear Brand Weapons: Armalite Model: 01 Caliber rifled: .223 Remington Period: Post-war (1946-present) Tags Colt LATEST ARRIVALS: COLT AR15 MODEL ARMAL CAL.223REM 01. BARREL 20 INCH AND SPARK ARRESTER MODEL I °. RARE '. GOOD CONDITION. ROD / FOOTBALL / RED BAKELITE HANDLE. Import only seven pieces. THE HOUSING WILL 'THE ENGRAVED NAME OF THE COMPANY IMPORTING AND NEW REGISTRATION. TYPE COLT AR15 Meles. DUE ON ARRIVAL. PRICE TRATT.RIS. |
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Posted: 1/24/2011 9:08:28 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
The front sling swivel is held on by a rivet, not a roll pin it looks like. I noticed that too. Another thing I noticed was the "web" at the back of the carry handle was thin. I have come to realize that the thickness of the web corresponds to the amount of material that was machined from the "fence" at the back of the ejection port. So it looks like web thickness may not be a very good indicator of a model or early/late type. They don't get much earlier than this model. 
How about the line on the selector? Was that cast/forged or scribed on there? |
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Posted: 1/24/2011 9:12:00 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Hell, someone needs to detail strip that thing and break out the camera! Gladio, Do you think you could contact this seller and ask them to take lots more pictures? Anybody have an extra drool pad for their keyboard they can lend me?
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Posted: 1/24/2011 9:23:29 PM EDT
[#20]
That sling swivel looks funny, too - like the swivel loop intersects a piece of barstock that is riveted to the FSB - not like the bent loop like all the rest - replacement maybe?
Also "Import only seven pieces" - are there 6 more 01s we're missing out on?????????????? |
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Posted: 1/24/2011 9:42:30 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
That sling swivel looks funny, too - like the swivel loop intersects a piece of barstock that is riveted to the FSB - not like the bent loop like all the rest - replacement maybe? Also "Import only seven pieces" - are there 6 more 01s we're missing out on?????????????? You are right about the swivel. Who knows where this thing has been and what it may have been through? Perhaps it saw action in the Indonesia–Malaysia confrontation. 
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Posted: 1/25/2011 2:24:02 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: For anyone without a translater available,here is the text,note what they say about having to have the importers name engraved into the housing tho And the duckbill translates to "spark arrester"I should have offered a translation myself. the auction reads: Arriving Soon: COLT ARMALITE AR15 MODEL 01 CAL.223REM. 20"BBL, 1st model flash hider Rare find Fair condition Handguard/buttstock are red bakelite. Only seven samples to be imported Receiver will bear importer brand mark and a new serial # ( sort of like the Malaysian 613 imported in Italy, wich are actually disfigured ) Two samples available Trattative riservate means that price won't be disclosed unless buyer shows serious interest in the deal. @Shrikefan: If the whole power of AR15.COM Retro could fall upon the guy and demand for MOAR pictures, he'd be much more concerned to do any further pictures. I will act as a dispatcher.. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 2:39:43 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: I hope Aimles will forgive the faux pas. We really are looking at some high quality photos of history. Just a stretch here but I think something approaching six figures would be my guess for such an early specimen. you mean a few hundred thousand dollars??? |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 2:58:17 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I hope Aimles will forgive the faux pas. We really are looking at some high quality photos of history. Just a stretch here but I think something approaching six figures would be my guess for such an early specimen. you mean a few hundred thousand dollars??? My pure uneducated guess would put this around $100,000 in the US. I say this because a transferable AR15/M16 machine gun in the US starts around $12,000ish. However, I would guess there are some avid collectors who pay such an amount. Again, purely speculation on my part. I'm sure there are members here who will straighten me out if I am too far off. You may want to start a new thread in the tacked thread for price requests so we don't violate the rules too much and get this thread locked. As far as wanting more pictures - anyone who doesn't want more pics needs      etc.. I'd even put in a few dollars to pay the photographer for their time.
Thanks. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 3:08:32 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
I agree. Picture #5 shows that both the stock and PG are actually brown. Appears more burgundy on my screen here. Definitely not black though. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 3:19:43 AM EDT
[#26]
Brightness enhanced. Contrast backed off. It's a brownie.
Many look really dark like that. 
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Posted: 1/25/2011 8:11:25 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Brightness enhanced. Contrast backed off. It's a brownie. Many look really dark like that. http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj149/halpark/9703405.jpg Looks like the color of my Type A stock & grip. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 2:47:14 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I hope Aimles will forgive the faux pas. We really are looking at some high quality photos of history. Just a stretch here but I think something approaching six figures would be my guess for such an early specimen. you mean a few hundred thousand dollars??? My pure uneducated guess would put this around $100,000 in the US. I say this because a transferable AR15/M16 machine gun in the US starts around $12,000ish. However, I would guess there are some avid collectors who pay such an amount. Again, purely speculation on my part. I'm sure there are members here who will straighten me out if I am too far off. It would certainly be very interesting to see what happened in a real auction (not GunBroker, with all due respect), attended by serious collectors. Of course, the laws preventing US import make it a moot point, but with any collector's item the price is set entirely by what the deepest pocket is willing to pay. As a legit "2-digit" sample (starting with #100, I'd consider #124 to be a 2-digit, not 3-digit gun), there's no telling how bad someone might want it. Still, 6 figures would sound high to me––but I'm basing that on what paid for 748. Again, 124 would be considerably more "collectible" if it could be owned. I suggested in an email to the OP that the NRA or Colt's Manufacturing might want to acquire the rifle for a museum display. I don't know if or how that could be legally managed, but I'd like to see them try. Maybe they could make a donation to the seller in return for having the rifle "loaned" indefinitely to a museum? It just really bothers me that this is going to be destroyed rather than restored. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 4:04:20 PM EDT
[#29]
I think OLGunner is right in that six figures might be high. Guessing........$38k to who knows........maybe $75k for the right collector. But in the right environment (bidding war) it could go to six figures. Market is up and M16's are selling again.....rather quickly.
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Posted: 1/25/2011 5:16:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Brightness enhanced. Contrast backed off. It's a brownie. Many look really dark like that. http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj149/halpark/9703405.jpg Looks like the color of my Type A stock & grip. Yes it does I've got your pics saves somewhere. I've got some pics of #37 and it's almost a twin to that one; wear and all.
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Posted: 1/25/2011 7:44:46 PM EDT
[#31]
It just really bothers me that this is going to be destroyed rather than restored. I really think you are over reacting to the little bit of gunsmithing that is going to happen to this piece (or has already happened). The auto-sear will be removed, the engagement surface ground off the hammer, and then it will go into the safe of a serious and dedicated collector who will likely cherish it, shoot it, show it off and educate people with it. The alternative was probably to throw the thing into a smelter with old Renault parts and rusty manhole covers, and melt the whole works down. If you really see these two routes as being equivalent, you need to give your head a shake. |
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Posted: 1/25/2011 9:21:57 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
It just really bothers me that this is going to be destroyed rather than restored. I really think you are over reacting to the little bit of gunsmithing that is going to happen to this piece (or has already happened). The auto-sear will be removed, the engagement surface ground off the hammer, and then it will go into the safe of a serious and dedicated collector who will likely cherish it, shoot it, show it off and educate people with it. The alternative was probably to throw the thing into a smelter with old Renault parts and rusty manhole covers, and melt the whole works down. If you really see these two routes as being equivalent, you need to give your head a shake. Forgive my hyperbole! Of course, neutering the rifle isn't the same as melting it down. But depending on how this has to be converted, most of its collectibility will be lost. If the local laws could be satisfied by merely removing the auto sear and swapping out the select-fire FCG, then great––those are easily reversible mods. But if those mods include mutilation of the lower ("Receiver will bear importer brand mark and a new serial # ( sort of like the Malaysian 613 imported in Italy, wich are actually disfigured).), then this singular rifle, SN 000124, is being destroyed. There will be a great collection of early 601 parts...maybe even built into a great semi-auto. But 000124 will be gone forever. As a collector, I feel that's a form of destruction. I am now led to believe, though, that some European collectors may be interested in this who would be able to keep it, essentially, intact. I hope it finds a good home! |
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Posted: 1/26/2011 1:09:05 AM EDT
[#33]
+1 Olgunner
that thing should go into a museum and not being converted to semiauto. period. it's going to me modiefied like the 613 from Malysia since they're coming from the same importer and the price is 5000 Euro 
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Posted: 1/26/2011 5:40:27 AM EDT
[#34]
How intensive were the modifications on the Malaysian 613's?
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Posted: 1/26/2011 6:19:01 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
+1 Olgunner that thing should go into a museum and not being converted to semiauto. period. I agree. This rifle is a piece of history, and I'm willing to bet that there will never be any more exactly like it ever made again. Personally I think it's strange...Globs of paint on a canvas is "art". Twisted scraps of rusted metal is "art". Black and white photographs of things created by other people or by nature is "art". And all of this "art" must be preserved, put on display, cherished, and analyzed as though it has some sort of complex meaning or represents something, and if you don't see that this "art" is something more valuable than globs of paint or twisted steel - well, this makes you an uncultured, uneducated fool who's opinions have no value, because you obviously don't "understand" what "art" is about... Yet...When you look at a rifle, like this one for example...It is far more than just globs of paint or twisted scraps of rusted steel, there's no argument about that. Its a precision machine. Somebody spent weeks, months, or even years coming up with the design, and then a factory of workers carved it out of steel and aluminum with their hands and with simple machines. More thought, sweat, and perhaps even blood, has gone into the creation of this rifle than has gone into the creation of a dozen pieces of "art". And unlike that "art", this thing functions! It actually DOES SOMETHING! And, again, unlike pieces of "art", human hands have held this rifle, carried it to places, and done things with it that only they and god will ever know...But, don't you DARE to suggest that this rifle is worthy of respect or preservation, has valuable lessons to teach us, or is an important piece of history, because if you do...Well...I needn't tell any of YOU what happens when you talk about these things... |
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Posted: 1/26/2011 6:58:41 AM EDT
[#36]
$42,100
That is my guess LOL. It belongs in a museum.. end of story. I would toss the Mona Lisa in a bonfire before letting that rifle be destroyed (i.e. modified at all) |
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Posted: 1/26/2011 7:02:25 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
I would toss the Mona Lisa in a bonfire before letting that rifle be destroyed (i.e. modified at all) Hey, not so quick man. If you use the unpainted side I bet you could get a day or two's worth of toilet paper before you chuck it into the fire! |
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Posted: 1/26/2011 7:41:35 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
How intensive were the modifications on the Malaysian 613's? FA bolt carrier milled to look like a semiauto carrier Auto sear removed & sear pin hole enlarged and filled with a steel block similar to the one used by Colt in the past FA FCG replaced with semiauto parts new hole drilled for a rollpin that acts as a selector stop various importer markings added here and there + a new S/N
various italian govt proof marks added here and there 
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Posted: 1/26/2011 10:08:51 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
+1 Olgunner that thing should go into a museum and not being converted to semiauto. period. I agree. This rifle is a piece of history, and I'm willing to bet that there will never be any more exactly like it ever made again. Personally I think it's strange...Globs of paint on a canvas is "art". Twisted scraps of rusted metal is "art". Black and white photographs of things created by other people or by nature is "art". And all of this "art" must be preserved, put on display, cherished, and analyzed as though it has some sort of complex meaning or represents something, and if you don't see that this "art" is something more valuable than globs of paint or twisted steel - well, this makes you an uncultured, uneducated fool who's opinions have no value, because you obviously don't "understand" what "art" is about... Yet...When you look at a rifle, like this one for example...It is far more than just globs of paint or twisted scraps of rusted steel, there's no argument about that. Its a precision machine. Somebody spent weeks, months, or even years coming up with the design, and then a factory of workers carved it out of steel and aluminum with their hands and with simple machines. More thought, sweat, and perhaps even blood, has gone into the creation of this rifle than has gone into the creation of a dozen pieces of "art". And unlike that "art", this thing functions! It actually DOES SOMETHING! And, again, unlike pieces of "art", human hands have held this rifle, carried it to places, and done things with it that only they and god will ever know...But, don't you DARE to suggest that this rifle is worthy of respect or preservation, has valuable lessons to teach us, or is an important piece of history, because if you do...Well...I needn't tell any of YOU what happens when you talk about these things... Why, Der_Hans! I never knew you were so...artistically sensitive! This brings a tear to my eye!
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Posted: 1/26/2011 10:54:03 AM EDT
[#40]
Frens and everyone else,
I clicked on your pics and got some sort of trojan horse virus warning. Second time it has happened through Image Shack. |
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Posted: 1/26/2011 11:13:45 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
+1 Olgunner that thing should go into a museum and not being converted to semiauto. period. I agree. This rifle is a piece of history, and I'm willing to bet that there will never be any more exactly like it ever made again. Personally I think it's strange...Globs of paint on a canvas is "art". Twisted scraps of rusted metal is "art". Black and white photographs of things created by other people or by nature is "art". And all of this "art" must be preserved, put on display, cherished, and analyzed as though it has some sort of complex meaning or represents something, and if you don't see that this "art" is something more valuable than globs of paint or twisted steel - well, this makes you an uncultured, uneducated fool who's opinions have no value, because you obviously don't "understand" what "art" is about... Yet...When you look at a rifle, like this one for example...It is far more than just globs of paint or twisted scraps of rusted steel, there's no argument about that. Its a precision machine. Somebody spent weeks, months, or even years coming up with the design, and then a factory of workers carved it out of steel and aluminum with their hands and with simple machines. More thought, sweat, and perhaps even blood, has gone into the creation of this rifle than has gone into the creation of a dozen pieces of "art". And unlike that "art", this thing functions! It actually DOES SOMETHING! And, again, unlike pieces of "art", human hands have held this rifle, carried it to places, and done things with it that only they and god will ever know...But, don't you DARE to suggest that this rifle is worthy of respect or preservation, has valuable lessons to teach us, or is an important piece of history, because if you do...Well...I needn't tell any of YOU what happens when you talk about these things... Why, Der_Hans! I never knew you were so...artistically sensitive! This brings a tear to my eye! It made me want to paint my shop walls in a faded 601 green with brown showing from underneath. |
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Posted: 1/26/2011 11:15:23 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Frens and everyone else, I clicked on your pics and got some sort of trojan horse virus warning. Second time it has happened through Image Shack. wtf?!
I'm going to replace the links |
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