Yeah, I know this ain't technically about a retro AR-15, but you can't know the -15 without knowing the early AR10s, so I didn't figure anyone would mind too much...



The holidays are almost over, but there was one thing I was determined to do before jamming my nose back into the grindstone:
I bought this old, Portuguese variant AR10 (built on a Central Kentucky Arms semi-auto lower) a couple years ago...but have never fired it.  
I know––it's shameful!  But to be fair, it's not like I haven't had plenty of other rifles to play with, and frankly––I wasn't comfortable with this one until I'd had a chance to thoroughly check it out.  I cleaned it well and did a thorough visual inspection, but I don't own a set of 7.62 headspace gauges and didn't care to take 60 year old, war-worn, surplus parts on faith.

But then a couple weeks ago, I found a thread on the "AR Variants" forum where a member offered to lend his set of .308/7.62 gauges to anyone who needed them. The gauges had been passed from member to member, and I jumped onto the list.  They arrived before Christmas and my concerns were quickly put to rest. The bolt closed on the 1.6300" "Go" gauge but not on the 1.6340" "No-Go"––didn't even need the "field" gauges.
Moreover, I checked my spare barrel and bolt while I had the chance, and then swapped the bolts and tried again.  I'm happy to confirm that Armalite managed complete interchangeability from those very early days!

So late this afternoon, with significantly improved confidence in the shootability of the old beast, I finally made time to throw together a range kit.  I dug out some South African surplus ammo I've had stashed away for several years, printed up some targets, and headed out.
Temperature was in the mid-40's with very little breeze.  Light was flat (overcast) and failing, so I didn't have a lot of time to goof around.  I set up and conducted a function test.  Safe and fire worked fine, but I was a bit worried by the ability to drop the hammer while the bolt is out of battery.  I don't know if that's typical of the breed, but it made me determined to pay attention to how the rifle locked up.

I loaded a single round in a mag, inserted it and pulled back the 2-piece charging handle.  I had noticed that the bolt catch is very hard to release under spring pressure, so I elected to slingshot the bolt home.  It was a little unnerving to slam that first round into the chamber, but I made sure the muzzle was pointed in a safe direction and let it go.  There was no unexpected loud noise, so I breathed a little easier.
I dropped the mag and confirmed it was empty (meaning the round had chambered), reinserted it, switched the lever off safe, and pointed towards the berm.  I was less interested in hitting anything, of course, than in simply seeing that the rifle fired, functioned normally, and didn't blow up in my face. (It's not a great face, but I'm fond of it.)

The old military trigger is fairly heavy, but smooth.  It does have a lot of creep, though, so I could feel plenty of steady movement before the shot broke.
The gun went bang, the bolt locked back, and smoke rose from the ejection port. Success!
The brass had landed about 8' away at 3 O'clock and, with the exception of a small ding on the neck, was undamaged.  I have no intention of reloading this stuff (crimped Berdan primers), but it's nice to know the rifle doesn't destroy brass.

Confident now that the rifle would at least fire one shot at a time, I loaded one more but this time took aim at a target 50 yds downrange.  I had no idea where the thing would shoot, so I'd taped a 6" bull on a 24"x36" posterboard.  I figured I could hardly miss paper that big at 50 yds.
I needn't have worried.  The first round was well within 2" of point of aim.

I completed the process 5 times:  Load a single round, hold a 6 O'clock point of aim with just a hair of white between the front post and the bottom of the bull, and work the trigger.  Confirm the round fires, brass ejects and bolt locks back, then repeat.
The results are below.  The extreme spread is 1 1/8", focused about a half inch left and 1 3/4" high from point of aim.
Even at 50 yds, I was very pleased.



Having determined that the sights weren't too far off, and since I would soon lose my light, I shifted to the 100 yd line.
I also figured it was time to see if I could load 2 rds and fire them one at a time.

Ever the cautious type, I loaded a mag with just one round, but left the selector switch on "fire" when I let the bolt drop.  I figured if the round fired while chambering, I'd know it would likely go automatic on me if I loaded more than one round.
No worries. The bolt slammed home with no discharge so I placed it on safe, dropped the mag and loaded another round, then re-inserted the mag.
Holding at 6 O'clock again, I broke the first shot, paused to confirm that the bolt have returned to battery on the second round, then broke the second shot.
When I checked the scope, however, I was a bit concerned. I saw only one hole, slightly left and 7 or 8" high. I knew the light wasn't great, but I was surprised I couldn't see a second hole.

Not having a lot of time to play, I loaded 2 rds and fired them on a separate target.  This time, I could see both holes, maybe 6" above point of aim.
A bit more confident now, I loaded three rounds, fired them, and confirmed the hits.
Finally, I loaded 5 rounds each into the two waffle mags I'd brought along, and fired 10 more rounds into that second target (for a total of 15 rds).  I was firing from the bench, but was certainly not focusing on maximum accuracy. Frankly, I was just enjoying the old rifle, and I wanted to fire enough to give it a fair evaluation within my limited time.

As soon as I could make the line safe, I walked downrange and quickly realized that, although I hadn't been able to see that second hole on the first target, it was on paper. It had landed just into the black and with my "budget" Bushnell spotting scope, I couldn't pick it out in the limited light.  Regardless, the first two rounds fired at 100 yds, from a 50 yr old rifle with 30 yr old surplus ammo, hit less than 1.5" apart!



The second target was also plenty good enough for combat work.  At 100 yds, the rifle shoots seems to shoot around 5 or 6" above point of aim and these 15 rds grouped just under 4 5/8".  (If you toss out the one flyer in the lower section of the bull, the group is about 3.5". I am very interested to see what the rifle can do with good ammo.)



I have to say it––I love this rifle.  It's old and it's been beat on, but it's still functional. It has some history and appears to have been some interesting places.  It shows its scars and rattles a bit.  It's a heavyweight, it's loud and it'll spit fire and smoke.
Hell, I don't just love this rifle––I think I am this rifle!



One more note...
Since I got to the range late in the day, there weren't many people around.  I chatted a few minutes with a young guy––a high school senior––who was there with his mother. He seemed very interested in the AR10 and asked some fairly intelligent questions.
They had a brought out a couple .22's.  For her, a S&W pistol that kept jamming, and for him, an old Remington pump-action. He told me the rifle had been his grand-dad's and that he was there to conduct research for a statistics class. He wanted to determine if hollow-point bullets are any less accurate than solids.
(Watching him shoot, I noted a few weaknesses in his research methods but kept my mouth shut!  Hopefully he'll get a good grade and they won't expel him for promoting violence or some such nonsense.)

Anyway, when I finished what I wanted to do, they were still there so I loaded a mag and asked if he'd like to try it out.  He jumped at the chance!
Turns out he had never fired any semi-auto rifle so I gave him a quick intro to the AR platform and suggested he fire from sandbags. He was already set up to shoot his .22 at 50 yds so he chose to stick to that range.  He fired the last 10 rds I'd brought along and kept them all solidly in a fluorescent orange 8" bull.  
He was one very happy kid––shook my hand and thanked me at least three separate times before I got my gear gathered up to leave.

...So tell me––what better way is there to end the holidays than with a range visit, a successful rifle test, and an opportunity to introduce a young person to a new shooting experience?

Bring on the grindstone...I'm feeling rested!

Wow.  Nice.  

Gorgeous.

Count me  with the others. I like.......

Good Gravy O_G!! That is another nice piece you've got there.

I sure hope I turn out to be your long lost son.

FYI - I've been looking at doing a re-chambering project and the reamer rental places also rent out headspace gages.

Very cool...

Thanks for sharing.

Simply FANTASTIC!!!!!
Could you take some pics showing how the B.H.O. is held in place within that double slab sided lower PLEASE??????????????
Just a bit of research for my "crazy thought" thread.

That's a really awesome report!!!  Let us know when you use good ammo through it, I'll bet that should be impressive.

Great write up! Thanks.





Bill

Awesome! I am so glad you finally got to shoot that beast. I'm impressed with the inherent accuracy too. I'm telling you, you need to take it to a .30 cal shoot once the weather gets warmed up and piss off that guy with the Norinco M1A.

I'm impressed.  Excellent adventure and one very nice rifle.  I also think it will shoot more consistently with better ammo.  Imagine if the US Govt had adopted that battle rifle and all the retro possibilities that would now exist.  AR-10 carbine.  Grenade launchers,  AR-10 pistols.  What could have been?  Very nice write up and I think it belongs in retro.  Bet you're chomping at the bit to take that one out again!  How did it handle, recoil, etc.?

Very nice. Thank you for writing all that up. I enjoyed reading about your day.

Great report, story and gesture!

That puppy just absolutely screams RETRO...  

Not sure how much the bolt catch differed among the early variants, but I think I can show you the idea, at least.
Notice I have a different bolt catch in my parts kit than is installed in the rifle (I believe the "spare" is from a Sudanese variant), but it looks like they'd work pretty much the same.

First pic shows the installed catch. The cross-pin fits into a slot in the wall of the receiver.



The next two show the "Sudanese" version. You can see the hole through the catch for a pivot pin, and the stub that gets hit by the mag follower.





And here's the "secret" that keeps everything in place (at least for the Portuguese model).  "Behind" the lever, accessible through a cut-out notch in the edge of the lever, is a roll pin that passes all the way through the wall of the receiver, holding the cross-pin in place.



It's hard to get a decent pic inside the receiver, but you can see the roll pin hole goes the whole way through.



Hope that helps!

I am surprised your kit had the earlier Sudan bolt catch.  Can you give the SN range for the upper?

that is one of my dream guns.  WOW

very cool

i love the old style "trigger" charger in the handle

The spare parts kit came with upper 0074xx and has the 2-pc charging handle and other Port parts.
The working rifle is 0062xx.

Thank you very much for the pics, I have saved them in my "dream" file.

Very cool, a true piece of history!  And good job introducing the young man to AR's.

To give some additional info (if you bore easily, feel free to scroll down, check out the pics and move on––no hard feelings!), I did a non-firing comparison of the AR10, my Springfield Arms M1A Loaded (a recent acquisition) and my AR15 Model 01.  (I was tempted to throw an FAL into the mix, but think I'll do that on a range day.)
Obviously, the M1A is not an altogether accurate substitution for an M14, but it's the closest thing I have available.



The first thing I notice when picking up these rifles is weight.  Using my basic digital bathroom scale and the old "my-weight-with-the-rifle minus my-weight-without-the-rifle" technique, I scientifically established the following weight chart.  I also scientifically established that I really need to go on a diet.
(Note that these are unloaded weights. My wife doesn't like me taking loaded rifles into the bathroom with me…which is odd since she does think I should try a .30 caliber enema.  She says things like, "I wish you'd shove those guns up your––" ...Wait.  Maybe she meant something different. ...Never mind.)

M1A –– 9 lbs
AR10 –– 10.2 lbs
601 –– 6.4 lbs

The next obvious difference is overall length.  The M1A is roughly 45" long.  The AR10 is a little more than 3" shorter than that, and the AR15 is slightly under 39".

The balance point of the AR10 (unloaded) is directly under the magwell, with 23.5" forward of balance and 17" aft.  On the M1A, balance is slightly more forward––towards the front of the magwell––with 25.5" forward and 19.5" aft.  The Mod 01 balances a hair forward of the hinge pin, with about 21" forward and 17.5" aft.
Remember, however, that the balance point changes with a full mag.  The AR10, balanced at the mag, doesn't really change at all, but the M1A and AR15 both balance a little more rearward when fully loaded.  That's interesting to me because only the AR10 would retain the same balance point regardless of how many rds are in the mag.  The other two would require slight adjustments as the ammo is depleted.  With a bipod or supported position, you'd never notice that, and in a combat stress, I'm sure you'd never sense it.  But if you're a bullseye shooter, firing offhand, this might be something you'd become aware of.

While I do prefer a full pistol grip in a combat rifle, to me, the M1A seems to swing easier and with more control than the AR10––primarily due to the weight difference.  (This may be a very subjective thing, however––your mileage may vary.)
Neither of them has the responsiveness, of course, of the small black rifle.  I would not want to clear a building with either of the heavier rifles.

OK, around here everyone has AR15's or M16's so you know everything there is to know about them.  The rest of this will compare just the two 7.62mm rifles...

Both handguard/forestock areas are suitably wide (around 2" across, although the AR10 guards are much more tapered), but in my opinion, the smooth wood on the M1A is much more comfortable for marksmanship shooting.  The ridges in the AR handguards, however, might be an advantage in the wet/muddy/slippery/cold conditions you might encounter in combat.

The buttstock of the AR10 terminates with a (very firm) rubber pad.  While my Springfield M1A came with the ugly rubber pad you see in the photo above, I have enough hours behind the steel buttplate on government M14s to tell you that the AR10 would be much more comfortable for extended shooting sessions.  Of course, the extra weight of the Portuguese variant also helps buffer the recoil.
In fact, when I let that young guy shoot the AR10 yesterday, one of his first reactions was a surprised: "It really doesn't kick very hard!"

The sight pictures are similar (aperture rear, post front with protective ears) but I have to give the nod on adjustability to the M1A. While the M1A is adjustable for elevation and windage by turning the knob on one side or the other of the rear sight, the AR10 rear sight looks a little bit like the fore-father of the AR15-A2 sights we all know and love.  Both elevation and windage are adjusted at the rear sight, with the horizontal, numbered, wheel allowing easy adjustment for elevation...but it looks like any windage adjustment would have to be made by drifting the aperature left or right within its slotted base.
I have not tried this (nor do I care to), but it looks a little difficult, and of course, would not be quickly adjustable in the field.



A note: On my spare upper (which is only partially assembled), the rear aperture can be turned sideways.  I'm not sure if that's by design or because it's improperly installed (the aperture on the working AR10 does not easily turn like this and I'm not going to try and force it), but this would make it much easier to drift the sight.
If the aperture can not be turned like this, it would have to be drifted by prying against the ear of the carry handle––not something I would care to do.



The front sight, incidentally, appears to be one-piece. At first glance I thought the sight blade might be replaceable in a slot, but a closer look shows it's solid.



Of course, that view brings us to the flash hider (also below), which includes the bayonet lug on top.



If you look closely, the business end of the FH is threaded  internally to accept a blank firing adapter.



As for triggers, I can't really do a fair comparison. The AR10 is a very old military trigger.  It's not "bad" and I have no doubt it could be improved by a competent gunsmith.  But the Springfield "Loaded" package includes a "match" trigger from the factory.  To be honest, it is not the best trigger I've ever shot...but it's pretty good for a modern factory trigger.

They are definitely different trigger designs, though. The M1A has a very long first stage (about 3/16" at the trigger), then a short, fairly crisp second stage.  The AR10 has very little trigger movement (less than 1/16") before the firing surfaces engage.  Although, as I said in the OP, the AR10 has a long creep before it breaks, with some careful work I think it could be an excellent trigger.

As for the safety lever/selector switch, I definitely prefer the AR10.  As with all ARs, the switch is where it belongs––within easy reach while my hand is in a firing position.  The lever-in-the-trigger-guard design of the M1A is fine for a match or hunting rifle, but it's not as natural a movement for me.
Of course, this is a semi-auto AR10 with a 2-position switch.  Safe and Fire are in the same position as modern ARs. On some early AR10s (The Sudanese variant, at least…I'm not certain about the Portuguese model), the switch positions were "Auto" (pointed forward), "Safe" (up) and "Semi" (rearward).  Having spent years with the Safe>>Semi>>Auto switch positions, that would be hard to adjust to (not to mention dangerous)!

Here are a handful of miscellaneous spare parts, some of which will look familiar to modern AR users.  You can see the AR15 heritage in the fire control group.



Speaking of heritage, the AR10 has a horizontal line mag release button, not too dissimilar to the earliest 601's.



But it's not entirely similar. Instead of a threaded post and screw-on button, the AR10 has a cross-post and spring-loaded, slotted mag button. (I'm guessing the modern design would be easier to manufacture and assemble.)



Now, this is an interesting buffer design.  There are no pins or anything holding the pieces together.



The spring guide can be lifted from the cup...



...which holds the weight/baffles.  The rings slide freely along the short shaft.



But compare that to the buffer in my parts kit.  it's two-piece, connected by a pin.



What's really interesting is this one is very lightweight...and completely hollow.



I have a new mission, I guess.  I need to find out how many pieces in my parts kit came from variants other than the Portuguese!

I can only dream of one of these, since I have been ever since I was a little guy in the 60's and saw them on the news.

Ah––one more thing: I've been dying to get my hands on a copy of the book "The AR10" by Major Sam Pikula.  I'm told it has a lot of great info on these. Unfortunately, it must not have sold in large numbers and is no longer published.  (If anyone happens to have a lead on a copy, please keep me in mind!)

Sweeeeet!  She is beautiful!!

The benefit of clearing building with the "big guns" is that you can do it from the outside.

As for the weight, what makes the AR10 so much heavier than the M1A? Is either of the receivers made of steel?

That's a stack of Belleville washers in that buffer OlGunner. They function in a similar way to the ring springs in the edgewater buffers. Looks like 8 of them back to back on a mounting fixture. The same stack should probably be in the other buffer as well but, I don't know enough about AR-10's to say that with any certainty.  

I think Stoner had a thing for unique springs.

Yes, sir––that is something I really wasn't thinking about.
The Central KY Arms lower is (I'm told 8620) steel. Since the original receiver would have been aluminum (I believe), in its original config this would have been considerably lighter.
How much lighter, though, I'll have to look into.  I do know the Portuguese variant was heavier than the earlier versions, but not by how much.

OlGunner, does the gas system start at the FSB or at the end of the handguards (basically, does the gas tube run under the heatshield area)? Also, what is the significance of that heatshield space between FSB and handguards?

The 4-piece handguard assembly comprises the inner (2 piece) metal heat shield (aluminum, I'm guessing––lightweight) and the outer (2-piece) handguard that appears to be fiberglass or some variant thereof.  The only "significance" I can think of for the space between the FSB and the fiberglass would be improved cooling. (Plus it looks cool!)



Note also that the gas tube (carbon steel, incidentally) runs similarly to a modern AR.  it's held in place by a solid pin through the FSB and fits into the receiver through the barrel nut.





You can probably tell from my spare bolt carrier group (compared to one from a 601) that, other than the obvious downsizing, the whole direct impingement design hasn't really changed very much since the late 50's...



...with one significant exception.  Take a closer look at the FSB and you'll see it contains a gas regulator which (according to the user manual), "…enables the user to adapt the rifle to the ammunition used and to the circumstances in which the rifle has to operate."

Note that the regulator is marked with three "notches" of varying sizes.  Those notches correspond to gas orifices of three different sizes ("normal", "medium" and "large").  Align a notch next to the spring-loaded detent to select that particular orifice (in this pic, the "medium" orifice is selected).



Again quoting from the user manual: "The positions 'normal' and 'medium' are meant for a rifle under normal shooting conditions, and differ only because some kinds of ammunition give a higher rate of fire than others...Under adverse conditions (dust, mud, water etc.) the regulator should be set on its 'large' position; as soon as these conditions are no longer extant, the regulator should be turned back to its original setting because of the unnecessary strain on the weapon under normal conditions."

Oh, and while I had the handguards off, I grabbed pics of the barrel markings, too––just in case anyone here cares about such details.  
On the left side, just forward of the chamber:



And directly under the gas tube (viewed from the right side), again at the chamber end of the barrel:

A Dutch collector of AR10's says:

The shoulder angle of a .308 Win. or a 7.62x51 NATO cartridge and chamber is 40 degrees, the chamber of a Porto barrel is 42 degrees. This was done to overcome the rebounce of the carrier during full auto firing. So AI made special go and no go gauges for the AR10 with this 42 degree shoulder.

British proof marks?

Just what I was wondering, OlGunner. Thank you!

Well THAT's darned good to know!  And here I thought I was safe after checking it with standard gauges... I wonder if that means I have more headspace than I thought...or less. I'm guessing more...but how much more?
The thing didn't blow up on me so I guess it's probably not a problem, but it would be nice to come across a set of those gauges.

It's also an interesting solution to carrier bounce.  I'm trying to figure out exactly how that would work.

You can always compare a fired case from the AR-10 to a factory fresh cartridge, or to a fired case from your M1A.  Or drop a fired case from the AR-10 into a cartridge headspace guage and see what sticks out, or doesn't.

I think either RCBS or maybe it is Redding that still makes custom resize dies based on your fired case.  Expensive, but good to have if reloading.  Of course expensive is a relative thing when discussing rifles built from unobtanium.

British law requires proofing of any firearm that is imported to Great Britain or that passes through, or something like that.  I'm no expert on the topic, but understand it's a requirement for any arm associated with British "commerce".  
I'm guessing that the marks would have been stamped in GB, not by the factory in Holland, and they probably wouldn't show up on every old AR10.

My working rifle has the marks I showed on the barrel, plus a small stamping on left side of the upper receiver (crown over "BNP", next to crown over "SP", next to "20T").  The upper in my parts kit, however, is not marked, and the spare barrel has only the marks in the second barrel photo above (A D X K and crown over "T").  It does not have the caliber marking or "20 Tons per Square Ft" indicator or other crowns.

That there is nothing short of pure poetry.



Thanks for the informed read. Refreshing to be sure. Beautiful piece.

This is an edit of a post where the British proofs are discused the author is Mark T Dhristian. while this article is referencing the Sudanese variant since all of the rifles came from AI the proffing was the same.

The British proofs on a Sudenese AR-10 are easily explained if you can go back 40 years and understand the way that these rifles were marketed. Fairchild divided the world into four seperate marketing areas: Sam Cummings of Interarmco got Centeral and South America, Sub Saharan Africa, and most of Scandanavia (except for Denmark) and the British Isles. Bobby McDonald who headed up the old Cooper-McDonald marketing firm out of Baltimore, got all of Asia. SIDEM International in Brussels, which was run by Jaques Mincault (now dead I believe) got all of Europe and all of North Africa (make a notation of that). Fairchild kept the North American market for themselves...just in case the M14 fell through or someone else wanted to purchase a few in the USA or Canada.

Of course all of the AR-10 production was to come from Artillerie-Inrichgen or AI in Hambrug-Zaandam, Holland. Fairchild had discovered AI when they were negotiating the rights to produce a Fokker aircraft which was made in Holland. Back in 1957 Fairchild and AI signed an agreement for AI to produce the AR-10 and supply rifles as needed to the sales reps as requiered. AI agreed to produce something like 10,000 AR-10's per year (probably more than were ever actually made in total over all of the production years) and Fairchild would earn a nice royalty off each sale as well as on each rifle AI produced. I have NEVER been able to learn a dollar amount dispite years of research.

Enter Sam Cummings. Back in early 1958 the then newly independent country of Sudan was looking for rifles. Since Sudan had previously been a British colony the Sudenese went looking for British rifles in London. What they had hoped to purchase were L1A1 rifles but the Ministry of Defence told them that all L1A1's were slated for the British military and none would be released for export. The Minister of Defence did suggest that they pay a visit to Interarmco's Sam Cummings, who had an office in London and was in town at that time. The Sudense took a taxi ride across town and spoke to the man himself- something I had always dreamed of doing in my lifetime...but never did. 10 minutes with the man would have been enough.

Now things get tricky. Cummings convinced the Sudenese to purchase the AR-10 rifle. The problem was that Interamco had no sales rights in North Africa since that region was resevered for SIDEM. In order to make the deal Cummings had to have his rifles delivered into Britian and he used the story of a big British "sale" as his excuse. British laws mandated that all firearms imported into the country be proofed at one of the two proof houses and Interamco's AR-10's were proofed and complied with the law. Suddenly Cummings British "sale" fell through (what a shame), but by luck he was able to sell his now orphaned rifles to Sudan- what a stroke of luck!

Informed sources tell me that Sudan paid $225 for each AR-10 and that included all normal equipment and four spare magazines- not too bad a price- I'll take 100 thank you very much. Cummings flew to Kartoum himself to seal the deal...and get the cash- he'd been burned in that part of the world too many times before! I have heard that a total of about 4,000 AR-10's were sold to Sudan, but the exact number will probably never be known because all of the principals are long gone and I can't talk to them. Needless to say, Jaques Mincault was furious with Cummings for selling AR-10's in SIDEM's territory of North Africa and I understand the two men never spoke again.


AI AR10-Dan in GA

Carbinekid / AI AR10-Dan in GA ...
Thanks for that info.  Great story!
Another example of why I love collecting military arms––there is always something new to learn!

I have a portuguese AR10 with similar British proof marks. (SN00789x)  Below is a gunboards thread that explains the Brit proof marks on a particular Portuguese AR10.  My proof marks are similar, indicating the rifle passed through the proof house in 1982.  I suspect it was on its way to here (or Canada)  at that time.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?157254-WTK-Pre-ban-AR10-w-Brit-proof-marks

More excellent info! And since my markings are identical to the ones in that post, I now know when and where it was proofed.  Makes sense that they'd follow the same path since they both ended up at CKA.  
Would love to know how many AR10 kits––of all variants––actually made their way here to the States.

Someone should scan and publish what AR10-er newletters can be found.  I have seen no copyright notices in any of the few newletters found...

I agree. Along with Pikula's book, these seem to be the best source of info on the early AR10's.
If anyone has any available to lend, I would be happy to scan them and convert them into PDFs to be posted in the library here.

I understand there was a collection of the newsletters compiled in 2001 (I believe).  Would love to track that down.
"AR-10'er"...just one more thing for me to watch for at the fun shows!

Great post, love the AR10!

This is the kind of thread that makes the retro forum so interesting. This forum is about history more than anything else, and it occured to me that the original AR-10 with alloy lower really wasn't much heavier than a milled AK-47 of the same vintage. Of course, the AKM is lighter, but as opponents in the cold war, I find it interesting. I love reading about the history of these weapons, and it's interesting seeing this sort of side by side with a 601, something that you just wouldn't see on the AR-10 forum. This is the kind of discussion that truly belongs here and makes this forum what it is.

Except for the pistol,every thing you mention is there.
The rifle is able to shoot riflegrenades from the barrel and carbines were made in 1959 also.

Welcome to the forum, Stef!  Hey, I wanted to ask about your carbine––is that basically a Portuguese model with a shortened barrel or are there other differences?  
The handguards look like the Portuguese ones, but with the metal liner cut short.  (Feel free to post a pic––I'm sure other folks here would like to drool over it!)

Hi there.
Thanks for the welcome and its a honor to be here.
The carbine was made for drivers and the dutch marine corp (korps mariniers) and around 40 were made.
It is basicly a shortend version of the full size and there are two versions made.
The first is like the transitional model with the smaller bold and sudan charginghandle and frontsight.
The second one is like the portugese model and that's the one I have.
Don't know how to put pic's yet but I will try to make some nice pic's and e-mail them to you.

If Stef sends me additional pics, I may start a separate thread just to show them.  If those numbers are correct, that's one of the rarest uppers in the whole AR kingdom.
(...What I wouldn't give to have that lower, too!)

Stef, did the carbine use the standard solid buttstock, or was there some kind of adjustable stock?

My reaction to the amount of retro in this thread

Great thread...

How does the Portugese charging handle latch work?
I read somewhere that AI improved the way it latches closed.

The ‘original’ style is similar to the one pictured here:
charging handle