Bill sent me this info...

From Bill Wilson of Wilson Combat

When Remington first anounced the release of the relatively new .30 RAR cartridge and R15 rifle in this caliber I have to admit I was initially under impressed. Being an avid 6.8 fan I have to admit based on factory published ballistics for it's 125gr bullets I simply didn't see any real gain over good 6.8SPC loads. Now that I have some "hands on" time with this new caliber I'm begining to see some real potential especially for hunting. Over the past month I've spent a lot of time experimenting with the .30 RAR as to load development and building guns. I now have close to 1000 rounds down range now (of widely varying loads) through the following guns:

DPMS 20" medium weight upper (long gas)
Wilson Combat 16" Recon (mid gas)
Wilson Combat 11" suppressed SBR (CAR gas)

Here are my observations:

Positive

The cartridge case is VERY strong, in fact so strong it makes it hard to read pressure signs.

It seems to be capable of VERY good accuracy, can't wait to get some match grade barrels made up in a couple of twist options.

With bullet weights of 125gr or less I personally see no substantial gain over the 6.8SPC, however with 130gr to 150gr I'm seeing some terminal performance gain both on paper and in the field (dead hogs).

It's easy to reload and seems to be happy with several different powders and a wide variety of bullets.

With close to 1000rds downrange  through 3 guns I have had 100% function, so it's obviously reliable.

Fits in a standard AR15 platform so can be light and compact, MUCH better than the big and heavy AR10. A 30RAR upper will work just fine on your 5.56/6.8 lower, something the .308 doesn't have going for it.

Modest recoil, about like a .243 in a comparable weight bolt gun so will still be a good choice for female and youth shooters/hunters.

Negative

Low magazine capacity if compared to a 5.56 or 6.8, 4rd mag is about the same size as a 10rd 5.56 and the 8rd is the same size as a 20rd.. This is due to it's single stack design, but may be one of the reasons it feeds so well, I've even shot some flat point bullets designed for the .30-30 and they fed........... Low magazine capacity will probably prevent it from ever being a serious "tactical" weapon except for a SWAT sniper.

Can buy new cases!!!!! Being an avid handloader it's a major pain (and expense) to have to buy factory ammo and blast it away to get cases!!! Hopefully Remington will start selling cases soon as this would be a big boon to the cartridge popularity.

Only 4 factory loads are currently available: 125gr FMJ, 125gr CoreLokt, 125gr Accutip and 150gr CoreLokt.

No load data except for Hodgdon/IMR powders is available.

Reloading observations

IMR8208XBR, Benchmark and H322 seem to be excellent powders. I have also got acceptable results with AA2460 (shoots great, but seems to dirty up my suppressed SBR much worse than extruded powders) and R10X (lighter bullets).

Several bullets have worked well for me, but for now I've settled on 150gr Nosler Ballistic Tips and Accubonds for these T&E guns since they seem to shoot the best with them. I think the caliber is at it's best with the 130gr Barnes TSX or with various 150gr bullets. If you don't own a 6.8SPC you may want to play with the lighter bullets, but they don't interest me.

With 150gr bullets I'm getting 2275fps out of my 11" SBR, 2500fps out of the 16" Recon and 2600fps out of the DPMS 20" in 90+ degree weather.

Cases seem to last 5 or 6 loadings with full charge loads.

General observations

Ballistically it's a .300 Savage if you compare them in the same barrel lengths. Out of a 11" SBR I can duplicate the ole reliable .30-30 fired from a 20" barrel (with the added bonus of being able to use high BC bullets), so obviously it will get the job done in the hunting field even out of short barrels.

I'm impressed with it enough that Wilson Combat will build a few rifles/uppers and see if there is any demand???

Pictures of our first 16" Recon and 11" suppressed SBR T&E guns and targets attached.








Bill Wilson
Wilson Combat
870-545-3618
http://www.wilsoncombat.com
http://www.circlewcranch.com

Interesting report, no doubt about it this round has potential and I would have bought one instead of the 30HRT had Remington not yanked my chain around on this for the past 2 years.



You do realized by suggesting a certain 6.x cartridge might be ballistaclly inferior that the kool aid drinkers and pee,pee measures will now troll this thread into the ground

Bill and I are both 6.8 fans
I think he outlines a pretty good pro/con between the two calibers

You're dead wrong.  Those that understand the utility of getting good performance out of short barrels and the AR-15 mag well, will appreciate this for what it is...a hell of alot more power than what you can get in a 5.56.  This is another step in making the AR-15 a serious medium-game hunting rifle.

I was not impressed at first with this round either. Remington did not do a great job of selling this.  You still can't even buy brass for it, and I for one, am not going to shoot Remington factory ammo in such a gun.  The 130 grain TSX, going 2600 FPS is going to stomp feral pigs, period.  Bill has been working on this so that many of us could really see what it can do, and I greatly appreciate. it.  One of my reasons for being interested in the .30 RAR, is that one could see making a CAR gas gun and possible getting subs to cycle with 180 or 200 grain bullets. It's already being done with 7.62 X 39.

Paladin gas block, 240 grain SMK, and some AA # 9??  Hmmmmmm....

Any other company going to be making uppers?

Good Report.

...4rd mag is about the same size as a 10rd 5.56 and the 8rd is the same size as a 20rd...

Are these factory mags?  Average width between mag feed lips?

Tried any other mags?  Like two Lancer mags connected?

Pretty sure you're going to be the only person to bring up that silliness...

I like the .30 RAR.  It definitely would be a handloader's dream if they release some damn brass this century...

Only because I pointed it out shamelessly first  Notice the utter lack of fanboiage? mark my words were it not for my comment we'd already be in page 3 with a certain now famous elk having been mentioned at least 3 times

As previously noted the RAR case has potental, but honestly I'm more excited about the upper than anything else. The RAR and WSSM pattern uppers are what will finally allow the AR15 break into what was traditionally a bolt action only game in terms of taking game and shooting at range. We just need some more cartridge development

Can you use standard .223 mags?  If so, does it require a different follower or taking the rib out of them?  If not, is there a 12 round mag available that would be about the size of a standard 30?  Is Remington the only current supplier for magazines?

What velocities does this cartridge get with lighter bullets like the 125gr Nosler BT or the 110gr or 130gr TSX?

Thanks