Well I went out this afternoon to take a few shots with the JSE 16-3/8 inch carbine to record the results.

When I finished shooting groups with some various loads, I decided to rapid fire a Pmag with some Wolf 223, and on the fourth shot this happened.





It wasn't really jammed too hard, and it came right out with a couple taps of  the rod.  Prior to this I had shot around 200 rounds of Wolf with no problemo.

I wanna blame the Russians on this one. Anybody else wanna chime in?

Anyways, Here's the results of a quick little test I did with 4 different types of ammo at about 50 yards prone, with about 5 seconds between shots.

I think I can get 'em tighter with some trigger work.


All I know is it's gonna be awesome calling in coyotes this Winter.

I'd blame the commies.

Nice sling!

Thanks, I got it off a lawnmower.

I'm waiting on an adapter.

I'd say you got bit by the Wolf.

I too, like the sling.

How many rounds had you shot that day prior to the jam?

I actually ordered the same upper today online from JSE. My understanding is these uppers were made with DelTon parts. I have 2 DTI uppers, 16" A2 and 20" A3 both HBars. My 16" will eat the Wolf but my other upper won't touch the stuff.

I have to blame the Ruskies as well. Overall what is your opinion of the upper other than Wolf ammo??

Just the shots on the paper- 30 .  

I've been rotating between brass and steel evenly.

Overall round count is +500 rounds, and this has been the first malfunction.

I really like it myself, It's a little heavy, and I would say well built. No obvious sloppiness or defects besides the barrel port. If you really want a super cheap complete upper w/ bolt it's not a bad way to go, budget wise.  

If I had the money I would have bought a better name for resale value alone, but I just wanted a cheap AR that I could shoot coyotes, gophers, and  a deer or two.  

Bottom line: for $375 it has meet or exceeded my expectations.

Thanks....this is exactly what I wanted to here!!! Free FLoat quad rail for $375. its a good deal and if it treats me well I might get another if they still have them in stock.

Just wait until something happens and you either have to get a custom setup to replace it or a whole new barrel... they are factory defects, remember this.



 

Tight-.223 chambers?

kinda looks like the primer popped. I would guess it made the extractor tear the rim. Glad it was easy to remove.

No it's a 556 NATO Bbl  from Delton.

You would be surprised, you might want to look into having the chamber reamed.

I'm not sure about that,but for what it's worth I ran another 30 rounds of Wolf after the jam with no further indications of extraction issues.

Unless you know something I don't know?

Took the JSE out for a little harvest action this weekend.  The more I shoot it, the more I like it.   I shot some long range +500 meter, and was impressed with the accuracy, it's going to be great for clearing out the mange ridden coyotes this winter. I called at a couple different stands, but alas, no first blood for the JSE yet.

I gave it a little torture test and it still hit harder than Mike Tyson.





+700 rounds and counting, and no more WOLF bites.

Thanks JSE

"True men don't
Kill coyotes"

You obviously don't own livestock.

you have another word for what happens after you shoot them? they have a bounty in my neck of the woods if that tells you anything.

Have you ever seen a coyote with severe mange trying to survive a -40 degree Arctic cold front with a 50MPH wind?

It ain't gonna happen friend.

You might consider it to be a mercy killing, not that I'm trying to justify killing coyotes.  I do it for sport more than anything else.

Predator on Predator action. Hunt the hunter and all that.

Um...he's quoting a line from an early Red Hot Chili Pepper's song...I don't think he's really talking smack about coyote hunting...or maybe he is?






 

Wolf's steel cases can be harder to extract.  Do you have a D-Fender installed?  Great for enhancing extraction in any AR.  Available from MGI directly or Brownells.  $12-15 for a tiny rubber "D" ring but worth

Hi all,

(Long Post)

In the question of steel cased ammo versus brass cased ammo, the problem is not so much of extractor  wear but that of extractor breakage. Brass is more ductile than steel. As a result of this property, a brass case will “spring back” from the chamber wall of the weapon (after the moment of its’ complete sealing to the chamber wall) faster and easier than a steel case at the same moment in time. This means that steel cases do not as readily nor as quickly shrink to their original size at the moment the extractor is trying to remove the case from the chamber.

Due to the critical shortage of brass during World War 2, the Germans utilized steel cased ammo for a tremendous amount of their small arms ammo. They seemed to have perfected the proper mixture / application of a lacquer that was applied to their steel cased ammo. This lacquer made the exterior of the case more lubricious (slick), and easier to extract from the chamber of their automatic weapons and weapons in general. Without this lacquer, the forces applied to the extractor from steel cased ammo was amplified enormously. The case would just stick tightly to the chamber wall, and the extractor would either break at some point or pull off a piece of the cartridge rim. In either situation leaving the case stuck in the chamber. (Not a good thing with 10,000 Russians charging your position). The Russians were so impressed with the German MP-43 (the original assault rifle) they emulated its’ design in the AK-47. The Russians, however, realizing that they were going to use steel cased ammo, and that the AK-47 must be as reliable as possible, designed the extractor to be exceedingly large, robust and with a simply huge extractor “claw” to grip more of the cartridge case rim. The  Russians were not concerned with a proper lacquer application to the steel cases as the AK-47 extractor could handle the job without much help. As a result of this, the Russians never were able (even as currently as a couple of years ago) to develop an effective lacquer coating for their steel cased ammo for use in any other than their AK series of weapons and derivatives.

Enter Modern Day weapons designed around brass cases: These weapons are not designed with the huge AK style extractor because we do not need that feature. When our pistols and rifles are shot with Russian steel cased ammo, the extractors of these weapons are subjected to tremendously elevated forces that they are not designed to handle. A client of mine bought a new S&W Model 5906 and against my suggestions bought Wolf ammo to shoot. I was with him when during the very first mag he broke his extractor about mid length. Coincidence ? Possibly. But I had experienced the very same  issue for years in pistols and subguns. Three years ago I was training with a local Sheriff’s Department with the M16A1 and M16A2. Contrary to my suggestions, the Department bought Wolf steel cased ammo. During fully automatic fire, 3 of the weapons shut down because the extractor had pulled off a piece of the cartridge rim and the case was stuck in the chamber. The weapons were useless until a cleaning rod rammed the stuck case from the chamber. No one in the Department had brought a rod. Coincidence? Possibly. But I had seen it too often before. To their credit, the Wolf ammo has not experienced any primer failures at all in my experiences. The above are not isolated cases. I have experienced and witnessed numerous instances through the past 10 years. I suspect that the new polymer coating for the steel cased ammo was developed to alleviate the less than satisfactory lacquer coating. Do I suggest my LE clients shoot steel cased ammo? Nope, not even for practice. Do I shoot steel cased ammo? Nope, not even for practice, except for AKs. Would I shoot steel cased ammo if it was the only ammo I could get? Yup, you bet your butt I would......
Sorry for the long post, but it didn’t start out that way.

Blooptube

What would happen?

I had a few Silver bear steel cases stick in my JTDistributing upper I bought for my first build. I was told it was most likely because the nickel coating or whatever it is on the steel case is considered a "sticky" metal as is the chrome lining in my chamber and bore. I was also told the chamber might have a little thick chrome in it. I took a "tornado" brush that fit the chamber on the end of the cordless drill with some CLP and buzzed that thing for a good 10-15 seconds on the fastest setting.

Before doing this the gun shot MOA with 62 grain HP Silver Bear and stuck 1-2 times for every 2-3 mags.....I kept a brass rod in my guns bag if that tells you anything. I had shot 2-300 rounds or so with no change, brass fed and shot perfect without these issues, but I had bought 2000 rounds of Silver Bear ammo before the upper arrived!

After doing this my gun shot MOA with 62 grain HP Silver Bear still......and has NEVER stuck one in the chamber since and all of that Silver Bear was shot ONLY thru this upper before I built any of my newer ARs. I'm considering buying quite a bit more of that ammo next time a gun sow comes around and I have money in my pocket since the 62 gr HP Silver Bear seems more accurate than the 55gr FMJ ammo I've been shooting lately......about as accurate as the stock of 55gr SP ammo I recently picked up a month ago (2600 rounds.....about 900-1000 left, and already taken a deer with it!).

Not sure if I would recommend what I did to most people....but it worked great for me after the extractor insert and new extractor made no change.

I just picked up a JSE special length gas system upper as well.  I love it.  It's reliable and accurate.  I don't give a damn about high end brand names anymore.  I've been burned too many times by the latest greatest high end brand names.  If I had the funds I'd get another of these JSE uppers.

elmeno- Is that camolina seed?  What part of MT are you in?

You would have to shorten a mid length or rifle length gas tube to replace the odd length gas tube if your gas tube crapped out which I've never seen happen, and for the price you could probably part out the upper and be money ahead anyway.

I was wondering what he was trying to say. I had one, and it was a great shooter. I did part it out, and made a few $$ but kept the barrel for a new build.

Is it just me or does that primer look a little swollen?

Same issue with a Smith M&P 15. Chamber gets hot, melts the laquer to the chamber, extractor pulls thru the case rim. Tap it out with a rod and continue shooting. When you stop shooting, lock the bolt back and let the chamber cool a bit. Won't cure the problem, but will help. While the steel cased stuff may not be the best in the world, it works and is pretty much what I can afford to shoot these days. I haven't tried the new poly coating yet (still have a buttload of the other) I hear good things about it.
Good luck!

The lacquer isn't melting; the steel isn't as flexible as brass and therefore doesn't expand to fit the chamber as well as brass, allowing carbon fouling from the bore to blow back and coat the chamber walls over time and cause stuck cases.


 

It's not the rifle.  The extractor ripped through the case rim, then tried to load the next round.  The operation of the rifle was correct.   Wolf is not reliable ammo, it is just a cheap option for blasting.

Definitely the ammo.

Just make sure your rifle is lubed.

Bingo! Use some Hoppes #9 or an inferior product and a chamber brush every three mags or so and you'll never have this problem again. Edit: Not that I condone the use of steel cased poo anyway. Shoot brass and save it!


Also you should know better on the pull cord. My weed eater single point is much better for that. Furthermore I will reserve my comments on your UTG quad rail, shamefully, I have one too.