Sorry ass hole...Was a 97E, intel.  And you can claim that none of it came from mattell all you want, but I know what I had in hand, and I know how the parts were stamped.  You are showing your ignorance.  Mattel was subcontracted to manufacture handguards, grips and stocks.  Learn a little more about the history of the firearm that you [b][red]CLAIM[/red][/b] to know so much about.

Mr basic infantry 11bullet catcher.

Gentlemen,

Let's all go home, grab a beer and a Prozac, and go watch the sunset.  Life's too short for this kind of bickering. [;)]

I don't drink...or do drugs.

This is not bickering.  This is a full frontal attack to ARFCOM.  We will respond appropiately and timely.

Absolutely correct.  He has shown disrespect and directly assaulted the integrity of the membership and the board.  I call for an absolute boycott of his business by all members and whatever organizations they may represent.

G35, DEDFENSORFORTIS, ET AL

I CALLED TECHBRUTE AN "INTERNET-COMMANDO & BOTTOMFEEDER" BUT YOU GUYS ALL WANT TO GET IN ON THE ACTION AND TELL ME HOW YOU ARE GOING TO RISE UP AND DESTROY MY COMPANY--GET REAL.  DID I HIT A RAW NERVE OR WHAT?

THIS ALL STARTED OVER CUSTOMER SERVICE--I DO NOT NEED THE PEOPLE WHO PROFESSIONALLY WHINE FROM THIS BOARD.  MOST OF YOU GUYS ARE NOT CUSTOMERS OF MY COMPANY ANY WAY.  YOU ALL ACT LIKE I PERSONALLY RIPPED YOU OFF OR GOT YOUR SISTER PREGNANT--GET A GRIP.  DO YOU GUYS SPEAK FOR 40,000?

IF YOU GUYS ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR BM'S, RRA'S, ECT--CONTINUE TO BE HAPPY.  NO ONE IS FORCING YOU GUYS TO BUY COLT GEAR OR DO ANYTHING AGAINST YOUR WILL.  I JUST HEAR THE USUAL ANTI-COLT RHETORIC--DO YOU THINK FN BUILDS A BETTER M16?

ALTHOUGH IT IS A LOT OF FUN TO CALL EACH OTHER NAMES AND POINT FINGERS.  THE M16 AND COLT WILL BE AROUND FOR A LONG TIME TO COME--THE US GOVT HAS TOO MUCH INVESTED IN IT TO CHANGE.  AND WHAT WOULD BE A BETTER WEAPONS SYSTEM?  I HEARD IT WAS GOING TO BE REPLACED 20 YRS AGO AND NOW WE HAVE THE M16A4.

YOU GUYS ARE FREE TO HATE ME OR MY COMPANY, BUT YOU ARE STILL NOT MY CUSTOMER BASE.  SEE YOU GUYS AROUND.

 

... Maybe so, but why must you come across as such an arrogant businessman that potential customers may sit up and take notice? Is business that healthy? Have you considered that maybe some of the good folks that frequent this site may have ties to your potential future?

... Few companies can be that secure.

Mr Elmore,

Your last post was much more polite.  Did we " HIT A RAW NERVE OR WHAT?"  Could it be that a small little web site of computer geeks could possibly affect your wallet ?  One bit of advice - never underestimate your opponent.

Did you "HIT A RAW NERVE OR WHAT?  Yes you did Mr. Elmore.  I can tell from your replies that you are the type that appreciates respect.  That's great.  Your tone in some of your replies were very disrespectful to us here.

I guess we know how long that will last.  What was it, the 1911?  Too much invested?  The M14?  Too much invested?  What we take personally is the attack on the board as a whole and the members in general.  You can't understand why we are offended?  Well, that is why you and colt suck so much.  You brag on the colts yet don't realize that the best 1911's arent the ones built by colt.  The same goes for the AR.  

YOU GUYS KILL ME.  I WAS GOING TO BED, BUT YOU GOT ME LAUGHING--WITH THE WHOLE "FULL FRONTAL ASSAULT" AND "SHOWING DISRESPECT" THING.

ARE YOU GUYS GOING TO PULL INTO AN NPD (NIGHT DEFENSIVE POSITION) TO REPELL MY ASSAULT OR WHAT?  YOU GUYS NEED TO CALM DOWN.  THIS IS STARTING TO GET REALLY STUPID LOOKING.

I TOLD SOME PEOPLE HERE THAT THEY COULD TAKE THEIR BUSINESS AND SHOVE IT.  WERE ANY OF YOU CURRENTLY "OFFENDED" PEOPLE PART OF THAT CONVERSATION?  I CAN SEE THAT THIS BOARD GETS WAY OUT.  I HAVE HELPED MANY GUYS FROM THIS BOARD IN THE PAST AND EVEN LET A COUPLE INTO THE RESTRICTED COLT LE CLASSES.    

DID I EVER SAY THAT THE GOOD CUSTOMERS AND FRIENDS OF SPECIALIZED ARMAMENT COULD GO TO HELL?  NNNNOOOOO!!!!!  I SAID THAT MY COMPANY DOES MAINLY LE/GOVT SALES AND IF YOU GUYS WANT TO TAKE YOUR BUSINESS ELSEWHERE-DO IT.  WE DO THE BEST WE CAN AND THAT IS IT!  

YOU GUYS CAN GET AS UPSET AS YOU WANT AND I AM GLAD THAT YOU HAVE A NEW FOCUS.  CARRY ON.  

Sounds like you are the one getting defensive now.  Yet still no reply as to the demise of the 1911.  You also showed ignorance of a Colt subcontractor and have not responded to that.  Yet, you make claims that WE are the ones that know nothing.  You say we can take our business elsewhere.  Don't worry, I will.  I will not purchase anything that says Colt on it.  From anyone.

Since when?

[url]http://www.snopes.com/military/m16.htm[/url]

Claim:   M-16 rifles used by American soldiers in Vietnam were manufactured by the Mattel toy company.
Status:  [red] False. [/red]

Example:   [Morgan and Tucker, 1987]


The handgrip of the M16 rifle was made by Mattel. When the gun was first introduced in Vietnam, soldiers noticed the toy company's logo embossed on the handgrip and complained. Later shipments arrived without the imprint, but the grips were still manufactured by Mattel.



Origins:   The  
M-16, a rapid-fire, 5.56 mm assault rifle carried by thousands of American soldiers during the Vietnam War, grew out of efforts to develop a replacement for the standard M-1 Carbine used during World War II. The M-16, constructed using plastics and alloys, was a much smaller and lighter weapon than its predecessors, one that fit in with the developing Vietnam-era strategy of sacrificing accuracy in favor of more easily-carried weapons with rapid rates of fire and high muzzle velocities (i.e., "spray" fire). Hundreds of thousands of M-16s were supplied to US troops in the mid-1960s as US Army made the M-16 their standard rifle.

However, the M-16, manufactured by the Colt Firearms Corporation, soon developed a reputation for unreliability, frequently jamming and fouling (especially when not kept clean, a next-to-impossible task in the dust and mud of Vietnam battlefields). Problems with the M-16 eventually achieved such prominence that a congressional inquiry was ordered, resulting in design changes, additional troop training, and other modifications that ameliorated many of the reliability issues soldiers were experiencing with the weapon.

To the troops in the field, the original M-16 was new, it was small, it was light, it was made of plastic rather than wood, and it often performed poorly to boot. It was no surprise that many of them started expressing their dissatisfaction by referring to it derisively as a cheaply-made "toy," and that they associated it with the most prominent toy company of the time: Mattel, the Hawthorne, California, toy manufacturer famous for introducing the Barbie doll to the world:


One of the sayings soldiers had about the M16 was, "You can tell it's Mattel" which was a toy company's slogan at the time -- the gun had a lot of plastic parts, which can't stand up to the vibrations like wood can but it is cheap.
The Mattel legend was undoubtedly fed by the fact that Mattel really did sell an M-16 Marauder toy gun in the mid-1960s, a quite good reproduction of the actual weapon, complete with "realistic" sound effects:

[img]http://www.snopes.com/military/graphics/m16a.jpg[/img]


[img]http://www.snopes.com/military/graphics/mattel.jpg[/img]


The sardonic joke about problem-plagued M-16s being toys morphed into a legend about their really having been produced by a toy company, [red]with "proof" offered in the additional detail of soldier's spotting M-16 handgrips embossed with the Mattel logo.[/red] The redesign that improved the M-16's reliability was then attributed to a switch in manufacturers (to a "real" gun company) prompted by soldier complaints.

Hey Ken, what's up with the caps key on your computer?

Is it broken, are you yelling, or do you think that a post in all caps makes you seem more knowledgeable & authoritative???

OK, so someone took the handgrips from my M-16 (1983) and himself embossed Mattel into the heatshield of the handguard.  Now I also don't know how to read!!!!   Sorry, but I have to disagree with snopes on this one.  Although they are usually accurate, They are not 100% accurate.  The A2 I was issued later on did not have mattel stamped any where.

PSYWARRIOR

YOU ARE A BIG LOSS TO ME AND COLT IN GENERAL.  AS I SAID EARLIER, MOST OF YOU GUYS WITHOUT NAMES ON THIS BOARD ARE NOT CUSTOMERS OF MINE OR COLT.  THAT IS FINE.

THE US GOVT NEVER BOUGHT ANY MORE M1191A1'S AFTER 1945 AND THEY JUST LET THE SYSTEM DIE IN SERVICE--GO LOOK THROUGH SOCOM UNITS TODAY AND YOU WILL SEE A LOT OF .45'S.  I HAVE NOT BRAGGED ABOUT COLT ON THIS SITE AT ALL, BUT SINCE YOU WANT TO TANGO--COLT IS BUILDING THE BEST STANDARD .45 OF ANY COMPANY RIGHT NOW--BEST FORGED STEEL, FIT-N-FINISH, VALUE FOR THE MONEY.  

MATTEL NEVER MADE ANYTHING FOR THE M16--THAT IS THE OLDEST URBAN LEGEND OF ALL.  DO YOU HAVE SOME KIND OF HARD PROOF OF THIS ALLEGATION BESIDES YOUR MEMORY.  I DO NOT THINK MUCH OF INTEL POGUES TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE THE ENEMY ACTUALLY IS ANYWAY.  REAL ARMY SOCOM ARE 18 SERIES AND BEYOND. (AIRBORNE)

WE WOULD NOT AGREE ON MUCH--WOULD WE--I CARRIED AN M16 FOR A LIVING.

Sorry charlie, but Socom includes 96 and 97 series MOS's.  We worked directly with the green beenies.  That included deploying with them.  Also, you don't know what ASI's I have.  As to the quality of my memory, it is excellent.  But, I consider the source, a Commifornia Liberal Farts edumacated fool.  You are right about one thing.  My business by itself don't mean shit to you.  But word spreads.  So, along with my business you risk the business of all my friends and their friends and their freinds and so on and so on....

NYPATRIOT

I GUESS I JUST LIKE CAPS--I DO NOT TYPE THAT WELL ON A LAPTOP AND CAPS LOOKS BETTER THAN ALL LOWER CASE.

I TRY TO BE AS KNOWLEDGEABLE AS POSSIBLE,  BUT I AM ALWAYS LOOKING FOR MORE.

DO ANY OF YOU BACK EAST GUYS SLEEP?  IT IS GETTING LATE ON PACIFIC TIME.

[url]http://usgi1911.tripod.com/history/[/url]


Throughout all this time the M1911A1s did their part well, but as time went on many more were lost due to combat or attrition and the survivors began to show their age. Large numbers of .45s had to be sent in to be rebuilt at military arsenals (the average pistol was rebuilt twice in its service life), and many of those became mismatched when large numbers were disassembled at once, rebuilt, then put back together from the pile of parts. For example a Colt slide would be placed on an Ithaca frame, the remaining parts fished out of the pile to build a complete pistol, and in the end there would be a pile of parts left from guns that couldn't be fitted back together properly. [red]By the late 1970's the military's supply of serviceable .45 handguns had been pared down significantly, as [b]no new ones had been purchased since 1945[/b][/red] and attrition was taking its toll. In addition there were scores of .38 and .45 revolvers of countless variations being used by the Air Force and other units, adding to the problem of logistics

Then you cannot read!  When I worked for DLA I looked it up.  The contract never existed.  How can you be the only person who has seen this?  Try to find the contract number.  If you can you will be a hero to the tin foil guys.

All I can say is,I hope one day colt loses its monopoly on building the M4A1 and we can watch their arogance,bad customer service and arogant parts distributors go away like a lost contract,evrey one is entitled to an opinion and I have had my fair share of pissing matches with members on this site,be that as it may be this site is a community of like minded folks who are always willing to help and offer their experience when asked,so I will stick up for this comunity and say to all those ive ever had words with by praising bushmaster over colt,this is why I slam colt,colt has the same arrogant uncaring attitude making you feel like they are doing you a favor much like this distributors attitude,I prefer just a little respect as a consumer and that would go a long way and if you dont need us we certainly dont need you besides all you folks who have a colt can get the larger lower parts from bushmaster anyway who cares if its not a colt original,and with an appreciation for doing buisness with them,Hey Ken I dont wish bad on your buisness but a little nice ness and not treating us like are needs are insignificant to your larger primary contracts would go a long way,Good luck, and lets support companies who support and apreciate our buisness,Rock River,Bushmaster and others,I get my x-power extractor springs from les baer and how ever small my orders are les and bushmaster always appreciate my buisness. Ken your company is like a bad date,then you realize there are plenty of other fish in the sea ,ones who will apreciate us no matter how large or small our orders for items are weather you spend $10 or $1000 there are companies that appreciate the consumer.Oh and I served my country also and it dosent make me any better than my fellow AR15.comers even the ones I dont always agree with,you Sir lack humility and respect the most important attributes of warriors as well as evry day folks.Oh and by the way FN does build a better M16 and so did Bushmaster when they supplied the first M4s to the military,Then that "superior" company colt tried to sue them and failed,If sam colt were alive today he would be ashamed of his company and of those who deal to consumers in his name,at least Wilson Combat has the balls to tell its parts distributors to take care of the people who buy their parts or dont bother distributing our parts,now thats a company putting the consumer first and they deal with more military and law enforcement customers than private individuals,if you have a problem with any thing you got or didnt get from them they drop every thing they are doing to make it right,Thats a company I want to deal with.Hey Ken nothing kills a buisness quicker than "word of mouth"and its time this sites comunity gets the word out,when people start cancelling orders with you maybe you will get the message that a little respect goes a long way,your like the guy who gets pulled over and talks himself out of a warning and into a ticket.

I'll go ya one better QCMGR, I called Mattel. My, what an interesting conversation. They do not, nor ever did, have a military sales division. Nor did they sell or make any parts for firearms.

Oh yeah, here's the question that always shuts them up.

If there were Mattel marked parts for the M16 in inventory where are those parts now and why has no one seen them?

[ed to add the "oh yeah" and beyond]

its 40 years later those parts would be used up or out of inventory by now I dont know for sure wether the existed or not but I know a lot of Nam Vets who say hand gaurds andbutt stocks and grips were marked with the logo.And one fellow stated earlier that soldiers complained when seeing the logo and it was taken off maybe thats why more have not seen it,are there any former Navy seals on this site who could shed some light on this?seals were among the very first to get the early M16s,if any one would know they would.

All the triangular handguards were removed from the system with the introduction of the A2.  Also, with Mattel, it would not fall under a military sales division since it was a contract to colt, not the DOD.

Ken,

You may run a multi-billion dollar company, but you most certainly are not a sophisticated man as you have no respect for others.  Calling people here "computer geeks" "clown" and the like, is way off base and shows both your ignorance, and your immaturity.

You'll actually find that people here range from total 2 finger typing rednecks, to lawyers and doctors making a hell of a lot more money than you are, and have learned something about tact, and about not being a jerk to those "below" them.

If this is the way you run your business, you better pray the gov uses Colt parts forever, because I highly doubt you'll have a prayer in the "real world" of business once they abandon you.

Thank you for continuing to provide our government with the ultimate means to infrine on our freedom, and have a nice day. :)

Two of SAWLESALES products come highly recommended. The black extractor spring inserts and their extended life mag springs. The Extracotr spring inserts can be purchased from any Colt parts supplier and literally dozens of online vendors. I dont know who makes the extended life mag spring, so SAWLESALES may be the only source for that item. Although Wolff extra power mag springs are certainly an acceptable substitute.

I had hoped Ken Elmore would come on this site and clear up some of the issues brought up early in the thread. Instead he came here and insulted 40,000.00 AR rifle owners. About 30% of which are military veterans, and about 10% are active duty military or LE.

My Agency bought 400 Colt M4's last year and about 1200 M4 type rifles from other vendors. We have never bought anything from SAWLESALES. There are plenty of other Colt parts sources out there.

And I know quite a few that will tell you that the M193 tumbles in air.

As for the parts being "used up". Nope, it don't work that way. They get sold if Sam don't want them anymore. We would have seen them by now along with all the M16 (no FA) carriers, triangular handguards, and duck bill flash suppressors. Come on guys, you can do better than that.

Not a single pic, not a single part, not a single piece of paperwork backs up the claim.

Psywar,

Read my whole post next time.

Geesh, that dude needs a Dale Carnegie class, and quick!

[url]http://www.dale-carnegie.com/[/url]

Can you even imagine pissing off a potential market of 40,000 people?

Are these parts that hard to get?  

*plonk*

No SLIT, it figures that you would come running to this thread to get in on the "pile on".

What the fuck do you know of Ken and SAW? Not a fucking thing I would imagine. What has he "burned you" the way you claim RGUNS has? Get a clue you lying little turd.

I have been through two of Ken's Armorer's classes and he has been feeding my M-16s with parts that are not available anywhere else for years. So lets just say I know him a little better than you do.

Now run along back to school you little twat.

Ken,

There are a couple of little pukes on this board who like to run their mouths, make up lies, and slam vendors. Rest assured, these couple do not speak for 40,000.

They have been trying to pull this same shit on RGUNS for the past couple of years. But guess what? He's laughing his ass off, all the way to the bank!

ken-elmore, please turn off your CAPS LOCK.  Reading mixed case is much easier on the eyes than all caps.

If you want to boycott "S.A.W." over their priorities, do it.
But why are you attacking "the man" in this way?
He made himself clear:

[b]DEAR MR NY PATRIOT,

Since we are going to have a respectful conversation, you cannot buy military products directly from any of the companies that you mention. Call Trijicon and try to buy a military ACOG! Plus, it would take about 18 months to get it if they did take your order. Very few LE/GOVT sales companies deal with the general public because it is not worth the effort.

Why would you think that I would be against civilian ownership of firearms? I would repeal the assault weapon ban, 1986 machine gun ban and force all States to issue and recognize each other's concealed weapon permits--if it were up to me.

The previous posts were just about doing business--my company will continue to sell automatic weapon parts to law abiding citizens because I want the good guys in our country to be able to keep their weapons operational--with OEM PARTS I fought for this country and our rights to keep and bare arms. My wife and I are both life members of the NRA.

US ARMY COMBAT VETERAN
3/27 INFANTRY (WOLFHOUNDS)[/b]

You guys are driving him nuts

[b]This is a great opportunity for his competitors, I am sure they are watching.[/b]

It seems Mr. Elmore has made it clear he does not want or need ARFCOM to stay in business.  However this thread has been great advertisment for his company.  Over 2000 members have read this thread, and I'll guarantee that at least 50% of them visited his website from the link posted here, I know I did.  He has what you want if you own a Colt.  I myself do not, but if I did he looks like the man to go to.

This has turned into your standard Internet Insult contest, simular to the usual LEO bashing that draws everyone who ever received a speeding ticket.

This thread should be allowed to die quickly, instead of (with my help) the slow lingering death it is experiencing now.  

If you don't like Mr. Elmore's attitude or comments, don't do business with him.

Hey ken-elmore

Do you like arguing, or are you always a prick?

Sorry to make this short but I have to order some, well allot of stuff from your competitors.

The Cheat

Oh and to clarify, 18X is NOT the only SOCOM MOS, If you were in the military you would know this.

i dont own a colt and prob. never will. lol.

But i think it is fucked up that someone does come on here and an brags how well they are doin, I can see being proud of a company ya built. But just remember ya can loose it in a matter of seconds, all of it. I would never burn my bridge and say i didnt need someones business. I really cant believe someone with a degree in EConomics would act like this. What happens if your present LE/GOv. contracts run out or whatever.

ARF.com is a great place to advertise, but insulting 40,000ppl.

I think that the original poster of this thread should have talked to you guys directly and sorted it all out. I dont believe in airing out my dirty laundry on a public board.

Ken, i can understand that ya dont like civilian market, i personally know of 2 gun shops that have gone internet only because they dont wanna deal with the fucktards that try to beat em up on prices, they dont wanna see the same faces everyday that dont buy a damn thing.

Im sure that the colt owners appreciate you selling stuff to them (non LE/GOV.) even if it is a small portion and you dont really HAVE to.

PPl should NOT be on their knees and thanking you either. its a give-give situation, you offer a product and they buy it. its that simple.

I do understand you frustrations, but be warned, dont look a gift horse in the mouth and i wouldnt alienate you buyin market , no matter how small it is. But im sure ya learned that in Ecomonics.

THis arguement should have never made it here. THe author of this post and the defendant (SAWS) are no better off because of this.

See, that's what's great about Ken.  He doesn't know anything about you, yet he doesn't miss a chance to step up to the plate and throw a clueless insult.

Now Ken, why would you call me an Internet-Commando?  I've never claimed to be a commando, know anyone in spec-ops, or have the latest-greatest tactics on anything.  Also, what do you know about me that makes me a bottomfeeder?  I have a good job, own a house and a couple of cars, have a wife and a new baby girl, and yet I'm a bottomfeeder?

I posted a couple times about how you're free to make an ass of yourself, and we're free to take our business elsewhere, and somehow I'm a bottomfeeder.  My main point was that you just keep shooting yourself in the foot, then reloading.  Every time you post, you prove me right.

I have 2 things to say:

1.  Take a typing class.
2.  I'm glad you majored in Econ, because PR sure isn't your thing.

You loyal customer will still come to you for parts.  However, I can probably say with some degree of certainty that you did not gain any new customers from this.

Damn, this is tough to read. We could really use this guy on our side.

Sincerely,
Not a computer Geek

I think that this gentleman has revealed a lot about himself by way of his ridiculous posts.  Why in the hell would he go to the bother of registering, just so that he could denigrate and alienate 40,000 members?  I know all that I need to from reading his pompous, arrogant, condescending posts.  I understand that his company has grown 'fat and happy' dealing with govt/LE customers, but we all know that over time government contracts change hands.  A smart businessman wouldn't intentionally turn away a potential customer base as large as ARFCOM.

As for your personal attacks, I have plenty of documentation to show that Roger tried to rip me off.  Not that anything would ever sway you from your devotion to that felon.  Wouldn't let little things like FACTS get in your way, now then would you?  You don't strenghthen your position by making false assumptions and name-calling.  You are the one who needs to grow up.

This thread shows the underbelly and the problem with ar15.com: pricks.  Scores and scores of know-it-all, self-righteous pricks.  You guys need to chill out.

Frankly, I think it's refreshing to see a company tell a dip-shit customer to fuck off.  I ran my own business for 8 years, and there were many times I wanted to do the same thing but refrained because of the almighty customer service god.

Kudos to Mr. Elmore.  Just my 2 cents.

Whats with the anti infantry post?

Roger on that[:D]

The man is bullshitting on one thing tho--or the people at Colt are.  I was told when I called Colt, that the black inserts for the new extractor springs were for ID only

Guess y'all can decide who is in a better position to know. All I know for sure is that blue inserts, inside Wolff springs, work perfectly for me[:D]

Well, after reading all the posts, I'm gonna hafta say I side with Kenny on this one...

He obviously runs a successful business with little or no advertising.
He caters to the "big guys" but still sells to the "little guy".
He doesn't look for individual sales, and I can understand why.
Look at all the bullshit that arises from one customer...
Regardless of who is at fault, look at the shitstorm it created...

I now understand why many places won't sell to civilians...

I will now be buying genuine Colt parts from Ken to show support for his policy of selling to us "little guys"

That's not how it works.  

Good, you'll NEVER get any of my money, Mr Elmore.

You sir, have a very crappy attitude.

Well, I don't own a prancing pony, so Ken wouldn't be getting business from me anyway.  I have dealt with Green0 on several transactions and he seems like a decent guy, although his attitude can be a bit prickly at times.

Having said that, I'm tending to side with Ken here.  He didn't ask for our business, he has intentionally tried to avoid doing the small individualized sales, yet he is still willing to help us out when we are in need of finding those obscure parts - as evidenced by the testimonials of several M16 owners here.

Now everybody move along, nothing to see here...

QUOTE:

This thread shows the underbelly and the problem with ar15.com: pricks. Scores and scores of know-it-all, self-righteous pricks. You guys need to chill out.

I agree. This site has taken on a "follow the leader" attitude for quite some time now.

If this thread was directed toward a popular "member", it would have been locked pages ago!

As I see it, the problem is that Mr. Elmore considers some customers more important than others. I can understand that the current situation in the Middle East and Homeland Security is creating is creating a lot of "stress" on many vendors. Look at the wait Trijicon had for a while. I would rather wait and have something I want get to someone who really needs it to stay alive. But, if a company chooses to deal with civilians then they should treat them with equal respect.

Mr. Elmore, you don't have to worry about dealing with civilians any more. Through your posts on this board, you have planted a "cancer" here in this AR community that will spread far and wide. I for one hope that the military switches weapon systems just so your company goes out of business. As a former business man myself, your attitude toward a smaller group of your customer disgusts me. Treat civilians as equals or don't deal with them at all - period.

I, for one, WAS going to be ordering some stuff from them....but now they can kiss my ass! I have also placed several calls to some friends, LEO's, and told them of his actions and words, and they said that he just lost about 10 counties worth of business in our area, and growing fast! I sure hope that they are set for life at this moment, cause it sure looks like his future orders from the LEO's in Indiana just went south![beer]

The only "cancer" I have seen is the torch and pitchfork mentality of some of the member.  I have bought from him, I will buy again.  His "attitude" is directed at his detractors not his customers.  I am amazed at the "Victorian" sensibility of some of the member.  The shock and rage displayed when a vendor under multiple attacks finally says it is not worth the hassle.  

This is the post that bothers me it seems directed at people who never even said anything against him. Too much of this post is thrown out against the general populace of AR15.COM and that includes me. I hope that all this was just said in hast and frustration and that you did not mean to offend us as a group.

P.S. I would have no problem doing buisness with you ken as I really do think this was all a series of misunderstandings.
Roger T Jones.