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Posted: 10/18/2009 2:23:11 PM EDT
[#1]
nice
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Posted: 10/18/2009 2:23:35 PM EDT
[#2]
Great video.
IBTAKL Makes me want a CavArms lower. 
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Posted: 10/18/2009 4:19:10 PM EDT
[#3]
I see what you did there! |
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Posted: 10/18/2009 4:35:13 PM EDT
[#4]
No way. Everyone knows that two small dust particles will stop an Ar15. That video is nothing more than movie magic in action.
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Posted: 10/18/2009 5:08:37 PM EDT
[#5]
He definitely wasn't shooting 100% on those plates between dustings.
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Posted: 10/18/2009 5:17:08 PM EDT
[#6]
Jeez.... you can clearly see the cutaways to an un-used, clean rifle when shooting.
Nice vid. |
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Posted: 10/18/2009 5:21:40 PM EDT
[#7]
Not sure what that proves having the dust cover closed . . .
Then dust cover open but facing down? I will cover my pasted tooth brush with dirt and still brush my teeth, as long as I get to cover it first. |
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Posted: 10/18/2009 5:49:45 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Not sure what that proves having the dust cover closed . . .
Then dust cover open but facing down? I will cover my pasted tooth brush with dirt and still brush my teeth, as long as I get to cover it first. The point being that most people are convinced that just what I did in that video would have caused the gun to malfunction. Quoted:
He definitely wasn't shooting 100% on those plates between dustings. uhm yeah...when I do the dirt/accuracy test I'll let you know. When the front and rear sight are obscured by dirt, and the target is obscured by dust, it makes hitting the target consistently a bit hard. I guess I shouldn't bother adding descriptions to videos because no one reads them. 
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Posted: 10/18/2009 5:55:30 PM EDT
[#9]
The DUST COVER is called that for a reason. It would be the same as an AK having the safety on.
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Posted: 10/18/2009 5:59:17 PM EDT
[#10]
ya, dust cover open and facing up then pile the dirt on would have been a better test....even better would be to do that 4 times.....
i have no idea what would have happened but it would have been a more realistic test. i am sure our soldiers out there in the sandbox aren't paying attention to what side of their rifles are hitting the ground and being dragged around when they are in a firefight and crawling around..... |
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Posted: 10/18/2009 6:07:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
ya, dust cover open and facing up then pile the dirt on would have been a better test....even better would be to do that 4 times..... i have no idea what would have happened but it would have been a more realistic test. i am sure our soldiers out there in the sandbox aren't paying attention to what side of their rifles are hitting the ground and being dragged around when they are in a firefight and crawling around..... My thesis was not that it is impossible for the AR15/M16 to malfunction in combat. My thesis was that it is more reliable than people believe it to be. Many people believe this test would have resulting in the failure of the AR; thus I proved my thesis. I don't believe throwing a fist full of sand or dirt into the action would accurately simulate a dust storm in the middle east. Pouring a bag of sand into a fan and blowing it at the gun and shooting, maybe. |
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Posted: 10/18/2009 6:10:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Some of the guys posting comments on youtube are idiots. "Why don't you open the bolt and throw dirt in it like (insert random ak video)....No one in combat is going to do that. What your doing is probably at least as bad as what some rifles are exposed to over in the sand box. Only difference being you didn't have extremely pro=longed exposure.
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Posted: 10/18/2009 6:25:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Some of the guys posting comments on youtube are idiots. "Why don't you open the bolt and throw dirt in it like (insert random ak video)....No one in combat is going to do that. What your doing is probably at least as bad as what some rifles are exposed to over in the sand box. Only difference being you didn't have extremely pro=longed exposure. Some of the people posting in this thread are idiots. I swear this place is half full of asses. |
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Posted: 10/18/2009 6:35:19 PM EDT
[#14]
some one should buy one of the cmmg bargin bin rifles and do all the unreallistic torture tests to it to prove the ar is a tough rifle to those out there who dont think its military record is proof enough. nice video.
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Posted: 10/18/2009 7:01:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
ya, dust cover open and facing up then pile the dirt on would have been a better test....even better would be to do that 4 times..... i have no idea what would have happened but it would have been a more realistic test. i am sure our soldiers out there in the sandbox aren't paying attention to what side of their rifles are hitting the ground and being dragged around when they are in a firefight and crawling around..... My thesis was not that it is impossible for the AR15/M16 to malfunction in combat. My thesis was that it is more reliable than people believe it to be. Many people believe this test would have resulting in the failure of the AR; thus I proved my thesis. I don't believe throwing a fist full of sand or dirt into the action would accurately simulate a dust storm in the middle east. Pouring a bag of sand into a fan and blowing it at the gun and shooting, maybe. I'm no expert by any means but if I had to guess most people here probably were not surprised that the rifle functioned without issue after the tests in the video were performed. Piling dirt on both sides of the AR, with the dust cover closed on the one side, is hardly doing anything to the rifle. I never said you should have thrown a fistfull of sand into the action. I merely stated that leaving the dust cover open would have been more realistic. Even more realistic would have been to both leave the dust cover open for the sand piling part and to fire the rifle close to the ground on that dirt/sand with the rifle on it's right side. The blowback and cycling of the bolt would have kicked up dust/dirt and perhaps with enough firing caused enough of it to gum up the action over time. |
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Posted: 10/18/2009 7:02:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Awesome, great video! What lube do you use? Just curious.
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Posted: 10/18/2009 7:03:02 PM EDT
[#17]
So much for the piston AR
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Posted: 10/18/2009 7:03:24 PM EDT
[#18]
600 people send me 2$ and I will run one of the bargain bin guns till it explodes lol. 1$ each for the rifle and 1$ each for ammo
Actually make it 4$ each....so I can do the same with an AK. |
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Posted: 10/18/2009 7:15:17 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Even more realistic would have been to both leave the dust cover open for the sand piling part and to fire the rifle close to the ground on that dirt/sand with the rifle on it's right side. The blowback and cycling of the bolt would have kicked up dust/dirt and perhaps with enough firing caused enough of it to gum up the action over time. yeah like the roll over prone portion of the match featured in the video? |
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Posted: 10/18/2009 7:17:10 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Awesome, great video! What lube do you use? Just curious. just regular old rem-oil |
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Posted: 10/18/2009 7:19:35 PM EDT
[#21]
i would pay that
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Posted: 10/18/2009 7:31:58 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Even more realistic would have been to both leave the dust cover open for the sand piling part and to fire the rifle close to the ground on that dirt/sand with the rifle on it's right side. The blowback and cycling of the bolt would have kicked up dust/dirt and perhaps with enough firing caused enough of it to gum up the action over time. yeah like the roll over prone portion of the match featured in the video? ya, cept more than 11 shots, and get down like Costa does, parallel, none of that 45 degree angled stuff. |
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Posted: 10/18/2009 7:42:24 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
The point being that most people are convinced that just what I did in that video would have caused the gun to malfunction. Fair enough. I guess you have shown "most people" that they are wrong. 
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Posted: 10/18/2009 7:55:52 PM EDT
[#24]
___________________ Awesome!!!
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Posted: 10/18/2009 8:03:19 PM EDT
[#25]
I thought only piston rifles could pass this test?
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Posted: 10/18/2009 8:37:41 PM EDT
[#26]
Excellent!
I look forward to more torture-type video for AR15's .
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Posted: 10/18/2009 8:50:25 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
ya, dust cover open and facing up then pile the dirt on would have been a better test....even better would be to do that 4 times..... i have no idea what would have happened but it would have been a more realistic test. i am sure our soldiers out there in the sandbox aren't paying attention to what side of their rifles are hitting the ground and being dragged around when they are in a firefight and crawling around..... My thesis was not that it is impossible for the AR15/M16 to malfunction in combat. My thesis was that it is more reliable than people believe it to be. Many people believe this test would have resulting in the failure of the AR; thus I proved my thesis. I don't believe throwing a fist full of sand or dirt into the action would accurately simulate a dust storm in the middle east. Pouring a bag of sand into a fan and blowing it at the gun and shooting, maybe. I'm no expert by any means but if I had to guess most people here probably were not surprised that the rifle functioned without issue after the tests in the video were performed. Piling dirt on both sides of the AR, with the dust cover closed on the one side, is hardly doing anything to the rifle. I never said you should have thrown a fistfull of sand into the action. I merely stated that leaving the dust cover open would have been more realistic. Even more realistic would have been to both leave the dust cover open for the sand piling part and to fire the rifle close to the ground on that dirt/sand with the rifle on it's right side. The blowback and cycling of the bolt would have kicked up dust/dirt and perhaps with enough firing caused enough of it to gum up the action over time. How is it more realistic to leave the dust cover open? The dust cover should always be closed when the weapon is not being fired. If some guy is running around the desert with the cover open, then he hasn't been trained properly. |
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Posted: 10/18/2009 9:03:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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ya, dust cover open and facing up then pile the dirt on would have been a better test....even better would be to do that 4 times..... i have no idea what would have happened but it would have been a more realistic test. i am sure our soldiers out there in the sandbox aren't paying attention to what side of their rifles are hitting the ground and being dragged around when they are in a firefight and crawling around..... My thesis was not that it is impossible for the AR15/M16 to malfunction in combat. My thesis was that it is more reliable than people believe it to be. Many people believe this test would have resulting in the failure of the AR; thus I proved my thesis. I don't believe throwing a fist full of sand or dirt into the action would accurately simulate a dust storm in the middle east. Pouring a bag of sand into a fan and blowing it at the gun and shooting, maybe. I'm no expert by any means but if I had to guess most people here probably were not surprised that the rifle functioned without issue after the tests in the video were performed. Piling dirt on both sides of the AR, with the dust cover closed on the one side, is hardly doing anything to the rifle. I never said you should have thrown a fistfull of sand into the action. I merely stated that leaving the dust cover open would have been more realistic. Even more realistic would have been to both leave the dust cover open for the sand piling part and to fire the rifle close to the ground on that dirt/sand with the rifle on it's right side. The blowback and cycling of the bolt would have kicked up dust/dirt and perhaps with enough firing caused enough of it to gum up the action over time. How is it more realistic to leave the dust cover open? The dust cover should always be closed when the weapon is not being fired. If some guy is running around the desert with the cover open, then he hasn't been trained properly. No... if a guy is running around in the desert with the dust cover open... he is probably in a fire fight! |
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Posted: 10/18/2009 9:04:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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ya, dust cover open and facing up then pile the dirt on would have been a better test....even better would be to do that 4 times..... i have no idea what would have happened but it would have been a more realistic test. i am sure our soldiers out there in the sandbox aren't paying attention to what side of their rifles are hitting the ground and being dragged around when they are in a firefight and crawling around..... My thesis was not that it is impossible for the AR15/M16 to malfunction in combat. My thesis was that it is more reliable than people believe it to be. Many people believe this test would have resulting in the failure of the AR; thus I proved my thesis. I don't believe throwing a fist full of sand or dirt into the action would accurately simulate a dust storm in the middle east. Pouring a bag of sand into a fan and blowing it at the gun and shooting, maybe. I'm no expert by any means but if I had to guess most people here probably were not surprised that the rifle functioned without issue after the tests in the video were performed. Piling dirt on both sides of the AR, with the dust cover closed on the one side, is hardly doing anything to the rifle. I never said you should have thrown a fistfull of sand into the action. I merely stated that leaving the dust cover open would have been more realistic. Even more realistic would have been to both leave the dust cover open for the sand piling part and to fire the rifle close to the ground on that dirt/sand with the rifle on it's right side. The blowback and cycling of the bolt would have kicked up dust/dirt and perhaps with enough firing caused enough of it to gum up the action over time. How is it more realistic to leave the dust cover open? The dust cover should always be closed when the weapon is not being fired. If some guy is running around the desert with the cover open, then he hasn't been trained properly. r u serious? did you even think about this before you typed that response above? wow. |
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Posted: 10/18/2009 9:37:22 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
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ya, dust cover open and facing up then pile the dirt on would have been a better test....even better would be to do that 4 times..... i have no idea what would have happened but it would have been a more realistic test. i am sure our soldiers out there in the sandbox aren't paying attention to what side of their rifles are hitting the ground and being dragged around when they are in a firefight and crawling around..... My thesis was not that it is impossible for the AR15/M16 to malfunction in combat. My thesis was that it is more reliable than people believe it to be. Many people believe this test would have resulting in the failure of the AR; thus I proved my thesis. I don't believe throwing a fist full of sand or dirt into the action would accurately simulate a dust storm in the middle east. Pouring a bag of sand into a fan and blowing it at the gun and shooting, maybe. I'm no expert by any means but if I had to guess most people here probably were not surprised that the rifle functioned without issue after the tests in the video were performed. Piling dirt on both sides of the AR, with the dust cover closed on the one side, is hardly doing anything to the rifle. I never said you should have thrown a fistfull of sand into the action. I merely stated that leaving the dust cover open would have been more realistic. Even more realistic would have been to both leave the dust cover open for the sand piling part and to fire the rifle close to the ground on that dirt/sand with the rifle on it's right side. The blowback and cycling of the bolt would have kicked up dust/dirt and perhaps with enough firing caused enough of it to gum up the action over time. How is it more realistic to leave the dust cover open? The dust cover should always be closed when the weapon is not being fired. If some guy is running around the desert with the cover open, then he hasn't been trained properly. r u serious? did you even think about this before you typed that response above? wow. Are YOU serious? Why do you think the dust cover exists? By his screen name I would say that this man was at some point a Marine. Marines are RIFLEMEN first and foremost. It may behoove you to read and learn instead of making snide remarks. |
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Posted: 10/18/2009 9:46:53 PM EDT
[#31]
Dude, read the post above my last post.
Do you understand? Or do we need to point out the obvious to you? Dbl Wow. |
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Posted: 10/19/2009 3:58:01 AM EDT
[#32]
The AR15 platform is reliable, when taken care of. In some situations you can't take care of...
The results of this test are not new, a similar test was done here: Relability Test SBR AR15 There are no issues when the dust cover is closed (guess why this part is called "DUST cover). Nevertheless, redo the test with open dust cover and you're screwed. That's the point. |
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Posted: 10/19/2009 6:18:27 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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ya, dust cover open and facing up then pile the dirt on would have been a better test....even better would be to do that 4 times..... i have no idea what would have happened but it would have been a more realistic test. i am sure our soldiers out there in the sandbox aren't paying attention to what side of their rifles are hitting the ground and being dragged around when they are in a firefight and crawling around..... My thesis was not that it is impossible for the AR15/M16 to malfunction in combat. My thesis was that it is more reliable than people believe it to be. Many people believe this test would have resulting in the failure of the AR; thus I proved my thesis. I don't believe throwing a fist full of sand or dirt into the action would accurately simulate a dust storm in the middle east. Pouring a bag of sand into a fan and blowing it at the gun and shooting, maybe. I'm no expert by any means but if I had to guess most people here probably were not surprised that the rifle functioned without issue after the tests in the video were performed. Piling dirt on both sides of the AR, with the dust cover closed on the one side, is hardly doing anything to the rifle. I never said you should have thrown a fistfull of sand into the action. I merely stated that leaving the dust cover open would have been more realistic. Even more realistic would have been to both leave the dust cover open for the sand piling part and to fire the rifle close to the ground on that dirt/sand with the rifle on it's right side. The blowback and cycling of the bolt would have kicked up dust/dirt and perhaps with enough firing caused enough of it to gum up the action over time. How is it more realistic to leave the dust cover open? The dust cover should always be closed when the weapon is not being fired. If some guy is running around the desert with the cover open, then he hasn't been trained properly. +1. It's not "realistic" if you have the guys deliberately do stuff that no one witht he weapon ever should or would do. The dust cover is there for a freakin' reason. I eman, why not pour mud into teh open chamber? |
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Posted: 10/19/2009 6:44:07 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
ya, dust cover open and facing up then pile the dirt on would have been a better test....even better would be to do that 4 times..... i have no idea what would have happened but it would have been a more realistic test. i am sure our soldiers out there in the sandbox aren't paying attention to what side of their rifles are hitting the ground and being dragged around when they are in a firefight and crawling around..... My thesis was not that it is impossible for the AR15/M16 to malfunction in combat. My thesis was that it is more reliable than people believe it to be. Many people believe this test would have resulting in the failure of the AR; thus I proved my thesis. I don't believe throwing a fist full of sand or dirt into the action would accurately simulate a dust storm in the middle east. Pouring a bag of sand into a fan and blowing it at the gun and shooting, maybe. I'm no expert by any means but if I had to guess most people here probably were not surprised that the rifle functioned without issue after the tests in the video were performed. Piling dirt on both sides of the AR, with the dust cover closed on the one side, is hardly doing anything to the rifle. I never said you should have thrown a fistfull of sand into the action. I merely stated that leaving the dust cover open would have been more realistic. Even more realistic would have been to both leave the dust cover open for the sand piling part and to fire the rifle close to the ground on that dirt/sand with the rifle on it's right side. The blowback and cycling of the bolt would have kicked up dust/dirt and perhaps with enough firing caused enough of it to gum up the action over time. How is it more realistic to leave the dust cover open? The dust cover should always be closed when the weapon is not being fired. If some guy is running around the desert with the cover open, then he hasn't been trained properly. +1. It's not "realistic" if you have the guys deliberately do stuff that no one witht he weapon ever should or would do. The dust cover is there for a freakin' reason. I eman, why not pour mud into teh open chamber? Do you honestly think in the middle of a firefight, while shooting than running and dropping to the ground in a trench or something for cover, the operator is going to stop and say, "wait I just fired a couple of rounds, better close the dust cover before i dive for cover", cmon man you can't be serious. Im not saying throwing sand in the action is a realistic test, but what i am saying is testing with the dust cover open is a realistic scenaro that will happen quite often. |
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Posted: 10/19/2009 7:08:16 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: ya, dust cover open and facing up then pile the dirt on would have been a better test....even better would be to do that 4 times..... i have no idea what would have happened but it would have been a more realistic test. i am sure our soldiers out there in the sandbox aren't paying attention to what side of their rifles are hitting the ground and being dragged around when they are in a firefight and crawling around..... My thesis was not that it is impossible for the AR15/M16 to malfunction in combat. My thesis was that it is more reliable than people believe it to be. Many people believe this test would have resulting in the failure of the AR; thus I proved my thesis. I don't believe throwing a fist full of sand or dirt into the action would accurately simulate a dust storm in the middle east. Pouring a bag of sand into a fan and blowing it at the gun and shooting, maybe. I'm no expert by any means but if I had to guess most people here probably were not surprised that the rifle functioned without issue after the tests in the video were performed. Piling dirt on both sides of the AR, with the dust cover closed on the one side, is hardly doing anything to the rifle. I never said you should have thrown a fistfull of sand into the action. I merely stated that leaving the dust cover open would have been more realistic. Even more realistic would have been to both leave the dust cover open for the sand piling part and to fire the rifle close to the ground on that dirt/sand with the rifle on it's right side. The blowback and cycling of the bolt would have kicked up dust/dirt and perhaps with enough firing caused enough of it to gum up the action over time. How is it more realistic to leave the dust cover open? The dust cover should always be closed when the weapon is not being fired. If some guy is running around the desert with the cover open, then he hasn't been trained properly. +1. It's not "realistic" if you have the guys deliberately do stuff that no one witht he weapon ever should or would do. The dust cover is there for a freakin' reason. I eman, why not pour mud into teh open chamber? Do you honestly think in the middle of a firefight, while shooting than running and dropping to the ground in a trench or something for cover, the operator is going to stop and say, "wait I just fired a couple of rounds, better close the dust cover before i dive for cover", cmon man you can't be serious. Im not saying throwing sand in the action is a realistic test, but what i am saying is testing with the dust cover open is a realistic scenaro that will happen quite often. |
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Posted: 10/19/2009 7:46:36 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
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ya, dust cover open and facing up then pile the dirt on would have been a better test....even better would be to do that 4 times..... i have no idea what would have happened but it would have been a more realistic test. i am sure our soldiers out there in the sandbox aren't paying attention to what side of their rifles are hitting the ground and being dragged around when they are in a firefight and crawling around..... My thesis was not that it is impossible for the AR15/M16 to malfunction in combat. My thesis was that it is more reliable than people believe it to be. Many people believe this test would have resulting in the failure of the AR; thus I proved my thesis. I don't believe throwing a fist full of sand or dirt into the action would accurately simulate a dust storm in the middle east. Pouring a bag of sand into a fan and blowing it at the gun and shooting, maybe. I'm no expert by any means but if I had to guess most people here probably were not surprised that the rifle functioned without issue after the tests in the video were performed. Piling dirt on both sides of the AR, with the dust cover closed on the one side, is hardly doing anything to the rifle. I never said you should have thrown a fistfull of sand into the action. I merely stated that leaving the dust cover open would have been more realistic. Even more realistic would have been to both leave the dust cover open for the sand piling part and to fire the rifle close to the ground on that dirt/sand with the rifle on it's right side. The blowback and cycling of the bolt would have kicked up dust/dirt and perhaps with enough firing caused enough of it to gum up the action over time. How is it more realistic to leave the dust cover open? The dust cover should always be closed when the weapon is not being fired. If some guy is running around the desert with the cover open, then he hasn't been trained properly. +1. It's not "realistic" if you have the guys deliberately do stuff that no one witht he weapon ever should or would do. The dust cover is there for a freakin' reason. I eman, why not pour mud into teh open chamber? Do you honestly think in the middle of a firefight, while shooting than running and dropping to the ground in a trench or something for cover, the operator is going to stop and say, "wait I just fired a couple of rounds, better close the dust cover before i dive for cover", cmon man you can't be serious. Im not saying throwing sand in the action is a realistic test, but what i am saying is testing with the dust cover open is a realistic scenaro that will happen quite often. Im sure they don't, but i am pretty sure they crawl through the fine powdery sand in the desert. I agree that weapons maintenance is an intergral part of their training, but so is survival and it takes priority. During a firefight a soldier is going to be more worried about keeping his ass down crawling out of harms way(if the situation dictates), than remembering "o shit, did i close my dust cover?". |
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Posted: 10/19/2009 7:48:53 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: Quoted: Im sure they don't, but i am pretty sure they crawl through the fine powdery sand in the desert. I agree that weapons maintenance is an intergral part of their training, but so is survival and it takes priority. During a firefight a soldier is going to be more worried about keeping his ass down crawling out of harms way(if the situation dictates), than remembering "o shit, did i close my dust cover?".Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You're not one of those AK guys are you ... what part of soldiers not burrowing their weapon when they change positions didn't you understand. This weapon system has been around for decades and a better compromise has yet to be achieved. Put dirt in any other action ... same thing will happen. |
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Posted: 10/19/2009 7:50:39 AM EDT
[#38]
an excellent demonstration of how effective the dust cover is, nothing more
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Posted: 10/19/2009 8:00:38 AM EDT
[#39]
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Im sure they don't, but i am pretty sure they crawl through the fine powdery sand in the desert. I agree that weapons maintenance is an intergral part of their training, but so is survival and it takes priority. During a firefight a soldier is going to be more worried about keeping his ass down crawling out of harms way(if the situation dictates), than remembering "o shit, did i close my dust cover?".Quoted:
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Quoted: You're not one of those AK guys are you ... what part of soldiers not burrowing their weapon when they change positions didn't you understand. This weapon system has been around for decades and a better compromise has yet to be achieved. Put dirt in any other action ... same thing will happen. Not at all, i dont own an AK and i love my AR, im simply defending the idea that its fair to "dust test" the weapon w/ the dust cover open because there will be situations where the dust cover will not alway be closed that is all. Im not saying stuff the action with dirt, not even bury it, but sliding it through sand is not an unrealistic scenario. |
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Posted: 10/19/2009 9:30:05 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
... You're not one of those AK guys are you ... what part of soldiers not burrowing their weapon when they change positions didn't you understand. This weapon system has been around for decades and a better compromise has yet to be achieved. Put dirt in any other action ... same thing will happen. Wrong guess. The AK can handle that kind of treatment. It is build so loose that entering sand into the system is no deal. Just compare the systems of AR/AK and you'll see the difference. AR tight fitting, AK loose fitting. Same thing is true for 1911 VS. Glock. |
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Posted: 10/19/2009 9:36:26 AM EDT
[#41]
Anything will jammed up under prolonged exposure to fine talcum powder like sand.Great video man.The fact is we dont know the condition of weapons that are issued wich im sure in different hands all the time can be a factor along with not all people maintaining the weapon the same way.Im sure failures in the sandbox are not always rifle related because of how it operates im sure there are more factors.We dont own or use issued rifles that are run hard through different hands all the time.So I will say privately owned and used ARs that are kept up with and used to one set of hands that own it plus single stage semi auto only is way more reliable than a beat on issued weapon.
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Posted: 10/19/2009 9:46:53 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Not sure if troll.Quoted: ... You're not one of those AK guys are you ... what part of soldiers not burrowing their weapon when they change positions didn't you understand. This weapon system has been around for decades and a better compromise has yet to be achieved. Put dirt in any other action ... same thing will happen. Wrong guess. The AK can handle that kind of treatment. It is build so loose that entering sand into the system is no deal. Just compare the systems of AR/AK and you'll see the difference. AR tight fitting, AK loose fitting. Same thing is true for 1911 VS. Glock. |
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Posted: 10/19/2009 9:55:58 AM EDT
[#43]
After spending the weekeand with Capt.Dale Dye and talking in langth about the M16 and dirt this is most int. to me thanks for posting.I will find a way to get this info to him.
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Posted: 10/19/2009 10:00:09 AM EDT
[#44]
boy do I have a video for all of you later today....
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Posted: 10/19/2009 10:01:00 AM EDT
[#45]
Proof that no good deed goes unpunished on ARF.com.
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Posted: 10/19/2009 10:03:20 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
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ya, dust cover open and facing up then pile the dirt on would have been a better test....even better would be to do that 4 times..... i have no idea what would have happened but it would have been a more realistic test. i am sure our soldiers out there in the sandbox aren't paying attention to what side of their rifles are hitting the ground and being dragged around when they are in a firefight and crawling around..... My thesis was not that it is impossible for the AR15/M16 to malfunction in combat. My thesis was that it is more reliable than people believe it to be. Many people believe this test would have resulting in the failure of the AR; thus I proved my thesis. I don't believe throwing a fist full of sand or dirt into the action would accurately simulate a dust storm in the middle east. Pouring a bag of sand into a fan and blowing it at the gun and shooting, maybe. I'm no expert by any means but if I had to guess most people here probably were not surprised that the rifle functioned without issue after the tests in the video were performed. Piling dirt on both sides of the AR, with the dust cover closed on the one side, is hardly doing anything to the rifle. I never said you should have thrown a fistfull of sand into the action. I merely stated that leaving the dust cover open would have been more realistic. Even more realistic would have been to both leave the dust cover open for the sand piling part and to fire the rifle close to the ground on that dirt/sand with the rifle on it's right side. The blowback and cycling of the bolt would have kicked up dust/dirt and perhaps with enough firing caused enough of it to gum up the action over time. How is it more realistic to leave the dust cover open? The dust cover should always be closed when the weapon is not being fired. If some guy is running around the desert with the cover open, then he hasn't been trained properly. +1. It's not "realistic" if you have the guys deliberately do stuff that no one witht he weapon ever should or would do. The dust cover is there for a freakin' reason. I eman, why not pour mud into teh open chamber? Do you honestly think in the middle of a firefight, while shooting than running and dropping to the ground in a trench or something for cover, the operator is going to stop and say, "wait I just fired a couple of rounds, better close the dust cover before i dive for cover", cmon man you can't be serious. Im not saying throwing sand in the action is a realistic test, but what i am saying is testing with the dust cover open is a realistic scenaro that will happen quite often. Yes, as a matter of fact I do. Mostly because I have seen "operators" do it. It is part of their basic training that is beat into their head... |
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Posted: 10/19/2009 10:04:32 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
boy do I have a video for all of you later today.... Get them to me and I will try to get them to Capt. Dye along with the other ones. |
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Posted: 10/19/2009 10:21:54 AM EDT
[#48]
Thesis: The AR15 rifle is more reliable than people believe it to be.
The Test: Part 1: Dust cover open and up, cover the rifle in sand and run 5 magazines through it. Part 2: No cleaning conducted after part 1, Dust cover open and up, cover the rifle in sand and run it over with a Jeep, then run a magazine through it. Results: Part 1: The rifle functioned flawlessy with no malfunctions. The action was somewhat sluggish towards the end as oil cooked off and more dirt entered the action. Part 2: The rifle did suffer two malfunctions that required combat racking, but otherwise ran. All lubrication was cooked off and there was sand in the action. The larger particles; small rocks, prevents the bolt from going all the way into battery twice. I honestly did not expect it to work at all at this point. The CAV-15 receiver and C4 handguards survived without damaged. The CMMG upper was not damaged aside from finish wear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8SSQ_wIG4o |
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Posted: 10/19/2009 10:38:33 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Wrong guess. The AK can handle that kind of treatment. It is build so loose that entering sand into the system is no deal. Just compare the systems of AR/AK and you'll see the difference. AR tight fitting, AK loose fitting. Same thing is true for 1911 VS. Glock. Thesis: The AK type rifle is more reliable than AR15 type rifles The Test: Fire one mag to confirm function, load rifle and bury in sand with dust cover/safety down, fire one magazine, repeat. Results: The open areas of the AK type rifle allow dirt/dust to get into the action in large quantities, preventing them fire control from functioning. While a gas piston MAY be more reliable, the AKs fire control are more prone to outside fouling than those of an AR15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo5WhVvtYak |
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Posted: 10/19/2009 10:39:22 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Quoted: Wrong guess. The AK can handle that kind of treatment. It is build so loose that entering sand into the system is no deal. Just compare the systems of AR/AK and you'll see the difference. AR tight fitting, AK loose fitting. Same thing is true for 1911 VS. Glock. Thesis: The AK type rifle is more reliable than AR15 type rifles The Test: Fire one mag to confirm function, load rifle and bury in sand with dust cover/safety down, fire one magazine, repeat. Results: The open areas of the AK type rifle allow dirt/dust to get into the action in large quantities, preventing them fire control from functioning. While a gas piston MAY be more reliable, the AKs fire control are more prone to outside fouling than those of an AR15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo5WhVvtYak I lol'd. Thank you, finally. |
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