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Posted: 8/30/2008 12:22:41 PM EDT
[#1]
Glad no one was seriously injured.
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Posted: 8/30/2008 12:32:23 PM EDT
[#2]
Let us know. Glad no one is hurt.
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Posted: 8/30/2008 12:39:59 PM EDT
[#3]
WoW sorry about this happening to you and your friend let us know what the outcome is.
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Posted: 8/30/2008 1:30:45 PM EDT
[#4]
Papabri
They have been know to have .233 chambers and not .556... Have it checked... |
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Posted: 8/30/2008 1:31:59 PM EDT
[#5]
I've read of a batch of bad hornady rounds lately, hopefully it wasn't a squib
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Posted: 8/30/2008 1:34:40 PM EDT
[#6]
You are obligated to post pics of the blow out.
Glad nobody was hurt. |
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Posted: 8/30/2008 2:02:33 PM EDT
[#7]
Hornady does not produce a NATO pressure soft point load. Can you post some pics of this ammunition? misfire - failure of the cartridge to fire after the primer has been struck by the firing pin |
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Posted: 8/30/2008 2:30:06 PM EDT
[#8]
Did your last round of Silver Bear shoot like the other 29 rounds? It could have been the last round of Silver Bear or the first round of Hornady. I have had a similar experience: case rupture. I am interested to hear your findings. |
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Posted: 8/30/2008 2:38:56 PM EDT
[#9]
Glad everyone is ok
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Posted: 8/30/2008 3:12:02 PM EDT
[#10]
we need pics. |
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Posted: 8/30/2008 3:15:21 PM EDT
[#11]
IMO I would not have fired SP ammo. I've read in several OMs that soft point ammo should not be used. I have seen others use it and not have any issues, but tag for an update.
+1 on the pics |
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Posted: 8/30/2008 3:43:16 PM EDT
[#12]
I have heard that DPMS marks its barrels 5.56, but they are really .223. This is not a good thing if true.
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Posted: 8/30/2008 3:46:18 PM EDT
[#13]
make sure you document this because if it was in fact new ammunition you could be compensated
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Posted: 8/30/2008 4:07:54 PM EDT
[#14]
If the gunsmith thinks it was bad ammo it's probably worth contacting Hornady about.
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Posted: 8/30/2008 5:01:34 PM EDT
[#15]
Will be curious as to the findings here. Sorry about your buddy's finger. Post any info and pics you can.
stumo |
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Posted: 8/30/2008 5:42:40 PM EDT
[#16]
Thanks to all for your concerns. His finger is fine. He is a Korea Vet, former cop, and tough as nails! He is smart enough to not tell the wife about it, though. No real damage - the injury was apparently caused by the bottom of the mag blowing open, a cut from the spring or mag bottom blowing off.
I don't know what pics I'll be able to post, as the AR is with the gunsmith and may be shipped off to Hornady. There is no visible damage to the exterior of the rifle. I left one of the flattened SP rounds with him, along with the ammo box. This is one of (6) 50-round boxes I got at Cabellas recently. On the box end: #80285 5.56 NATO 60 gr SP W/C LAW ENFORCEMENT It's possible that there may have been a leftover Silver Bear in there, but we will have to see what is found when they get her opened up. The best we could do was to get the upper and lower separated, at which time the shop smith thought it best to contanct Hornady before going any further. Best move. I would be really surprised if the 5.56 stamp on the barrel is not correct. The danger in firing a 5.56 in a .223 is damage to the chamber, but only after repeated use, not just one round. The only visible damage to the rifle at this point is to the mag, but that may change when disassembled. The stamp on the lower is ".223 / 5.56". I'll follow up next week or when we know the forensics. Y'all have a good Labor Day. |
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Posted: 8/30/2008 7:10:56 PM EDT
[#17]
To my knowledge that load was a special run for the the Kansas Highway Patrol and was loaded to SAAMI pressure, not NATO pressure (although I have not chronographed it myself.) Do you have any chronograph data for the load? It would be highly unlikely for a SAAMI pressure round fired in a NATO chamber to cause a high pressure event in and of itself. Did you notice any ring/deformation along the length of the barrel after the event? Did the last round of the S.B. ammo have the same recoil and muzzle blast as previous rounds? Did the case eject normally and intact, the bolt lock back normally? |
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Posted: 8/30/2008 7:23:22 PM EDT
[#18]
Humm this is very interesting! I had nearly the same thing happen to me! I fired about 200 rounds of silver bear, then switched to Rem. Got a few rounds through the Rem and BANG. Same thing. I posted a topic about it awhile ago on here Linky
Check it out. I have never again used silver bear in any of my AR's. I have never had a problem with wolf. God that was a scary experience. I wonder if there is something funny with the silver bear we are all not aware of or maybe it is just a huge coincidence. Jeremiah |
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Posted: 8/30/2008 8:02:47 PM EDT
[#19]
Good grief! First I pick up some cheap clearenced UMC. Both boxes end up with about 20 rounds out of spec.
Now the Hornady from Cableas may be questionable as well.  Ammo companies should hire me to NOT buy thier stuff! |
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Posted: 8/30/2008 9:51:52 PM EDT
[#20]
Is the silver bear steel case? If it is, is it lacqour or teflon coated? DPMS states in the owners manual not to use lacquered ammo. It sounds more like a squib to me but ya never know.
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Posted: 8/30/2008 10:05:35 PM EDT
[#21]
Why would a squib vent gasses down through the mag? Wouldn't it bulge the barrel instead? He would have noticed that.
It sounds more like the round fired out of battery. |
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Posted: 8/30/2008 10:41:29 PM EDT
[#22]
Squibs are like arfcom you get both. The one squib I have seen trashed the barrel on a glock 21 and blew out the bottom of the mag. |
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Posted: 8/31/2008 11:57:53 AM EDT
[#23]
Your pic of the Rem case is what I suspect happened with my Hornady. We will have to wait and see when the gunsmith (or Hornady) disassembles the barrel. Right now, the bolt is jammed and the brass is still in there somewhere. If the Hornady case failed it's probably jammed because the base of it came off. The gunsmith didn't seem too interested in looking at the mag, said "I've seen those before." It was when he couldn't get the bolt out that he decided to call Hornady first. He said that it is not possible to fire the AR unless the bolt is fully engaged and rotated. Is that always true? Is it possible to fire without the bolt being all the way forward? Someone was asking about the SB. It is a nickel-plated steel case and doesn't have the 'laquer' that is on Wolf and even Brown Bear. The last round of SB that I fired seemed fine. It was then that we put in a different mag with the Hornady in it. There wasn't any apparent damage to the barrel, although the 'smith will inspect it when he gets it apart. I really think it was a case failure. Thre reason is the mag blow-out, and all the smoke and crud that is all over the cartriges left in the mag. That shows that the gasses and unburned powder came out the rear. I can't see it being a Silver Bear problem. |
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Posted: 8/31/2008 12:29:21 PM EDT
[#24]
What happens a lot with softpoints in ARs is that they missfeed and the rounds can get pushed back into the case and what you had happen happens. Not saying that's for sure what happened to you but I have seen it a dozen or so times with softpoints and a few times with FMJ. Bad mags will make it happen more often. Result is almost always the same.
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Posted: 8/31/2008 1:20:45 PM EDT
[#25]
Where were all you guys when I asked this ???????
Everyone said soft point was fine. I have since bought 1,000 rds and now am a little hesitant to use it. sure don't want my wife to shoot it after reading all this. |
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Posted: 8/31/2008 5:09:23 PM EDT
[#26]
If you have a rifle that feeds and functions 100% with FMJ and you use good mags like pmags you should be fine. I shoot softpoints myself but because of the possible issues I am more careful- that my gun is well lubed and I have good mags.
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Posted: 8/31/2008 5:15:19 PM EDT
[#27]
tagscribe for pics to help determine the root cause of the kb.
glad everyone is ok. |
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Posted: 8/31/2008 7:25:38 PM EDT
[#28]
Why would a soft point cause a case failure?
I've been using up 1K rds of Federal tactical soft point with about 100 rds to go +/-. No issues here. |
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Posted: 8/31/2008 7:29:46 PM EDT
[#29]
Soft points have more problems with feeding which can cause the bullet to be pushed back into the case which when fired......... |
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Posted: 9/2/2008 4:26:52 PM EDT
[#30]
Update:
Wow, what great customer service, not only from my local 'smith, Gunmasters in Plano, TX, but Hornady. By 11:30 this AM, Gunmasters called and sad they had talked to Todd at Hornaday, and to call him. VERY professional, can-do, 'we are gonna make it right' attitude from Todd. He wants me to send the rest of the Hornaday back - they call UPS and they have UPS pick it up at my office and they pay for it. They are getting the DPMS picked up from Gunmasters and will inspect both. He also talked to DPMS and will forward it to them if necessary. Todd at Hornaday said that sometimes during the annealing process (heating and forming brass), molicules or whatever get out of whack and cases can split. They will look at the lost case under a microscope to determine this. He didn't seem at all concerned that it is SP ammo or that I was shooting Silver Bear prior to that. No attempt to dodge responsibility whatsoever, and I appreciarte that. We did talk about chambering and he said I am good to go with a DPMS that has the barrel stamped with 5.56. (He has a DPMS) Todd indicated that Hornaday would replace everything including the damaged magazine. I said that if it is "pilot error", I would want to foot the bill. Todd said not to worry, they want to make it right.  Monitarily, a small investment for Hornaday, but this gives me a good feeling about good old American-made products and American customer service.McCain '08 |
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Posted: 9/2/2008 4:30:35 PM EDT
[#31]
That's good to hear.
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Posted: 9/4/2008 11:15:15 AM EDT
[#32]
A shoved bullet shouldn't cause catastrophic failure. I understand the pressure increases but not enough. I think this case failed for reasons other than it being a soft point. If the round hangs up enough to shove the bullet chances are it wont feed anyway. |
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Posted: 9/4/2008 8:26:47 PM EDT
[#33]
Ok, i'll tell that to the guys who had the KBs. 
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Posted: 9/4/2008 10:37:29 PM EDT
[#34]
good to hear it looks like it will work out. it is rare to see anyone man up and take responsibility for anything. nice to see hornady will for you.
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Posted: 9/4/2008 11:48:37 PM EDT
[#35]
Excellent. Glad to hear that. |
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Posted: 9/5/2008 1:08:16 AM EDT
[#36]
let me guess holding the magwell or the magazine. i had a case failure on my armalite years ago with the same results. my hands will NEVER go on a magwell again. |
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Posted: 9/5/2008 2:18:52 AM EDT
[#37]
Merica!
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Posted: 9/5/2008 5:29:48 AM EDT
[#38]
That is exactly why I keep telling people that I see using the mag as a grip to get their hands in the proper place. I witnessed a KB! with a Browning BAR chambered in .270, and somehow a round of 7mm magnum was in the box he was shooting. How the round chambered AND fired is beyond me, but it happened. This guy lost his finger, chunks out of his face, and nearly lost his eye. Turns out it might have been kids at Bass Pro Shops playing with different boxes of ammo, opening them up and switching them around in other boxes. |
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Posted: 9/5/2008 5:37:41 AM EDT
[#39]
Just a note of interest..... The "lacquer" has absolutely nothing to do with any problem. This has been tested and proven false numerous times. See the real problem here: Steel Cased Ammo To the OP, I bet the problem was a round firing out of battery, maybe due to a high primer. Hornady will do what is right.  |
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Posted: 9/5/2008 7:03:37 AM EDT
[#40]
Glad to hear Hornady is going to make it alright. Always great to hear a company taking care of its customers.
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Posted: 9/13/2008 11:42:16 AM EDT
[#41]
**UPDATE** Both the AR and the remaining 298 rounds were sent to Hornady in Nebraska. Todd at Hornady has been very helpful in letting me know what they are doing. He was able to get the spent case out, and it suffered a case separation at the rear of the case (sorry, no pics). What they don't knw as yet is what caused the separation. Hornady did a lab test on the remainder of what I sent back and found no annealing problems. Todd shot the remainder of the box I opened and all fired without a problem. He said that DPMS will get the gun from him and do their own inspection. Todd said that from what he could tell, there was no damage to the rifle. They were also going to do some sort of chamber cast to see if there are any deficiencies with the chamber. I'll provide another update when I know what the next step is. I'll ask Todd at Hornady about the suspicion about soft points. I'm no expert, but it would seem like a soft point, as opposed to a FMJ, would take up the pressure if it misfed, and not push the bullet further into the case. |
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Posted: 9/13/2008 11:45:05 AM EDT
[#42]
No, his hand was on the bench. |
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Posted: 9/13/2008 11:48:51 AM EDT
[#43]
Be careful about the lube part. Todd at Hornady said that oil in the chamber can cause some severe hydraulic problems. Keep the chamber dry. |
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Posted: 9/13/2008 11:50:50 AM EDT
[#44]
I am really happy about how Hornady is taking the needed action to help find out just what happened.
 I use a lot of their Ammo's in both my ARs and handguns.I also hope DPMS makes sure your AR is 100%.
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Posted: 9/13/2008 11:55:22 AM EDT
[#45]
I think they will. It's not a money thing, of course, but a safety thing. It's nice to know that there are companies that jump into a possible problem, not skirt it. |
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Posted: 9/13/2008 12:16:46 PM EDT
[#46]
I had issues with the same stuff today at the range. No Kaboom just a jammed up trigger group.
My problem |
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Posted: 9/13/2008 12:41:00 PM EDT
[#47]
I would forward this link to Tod himself. Shows that he is a stand up guy and so is the company. Good press is always nice to read. Good luck on your issue. Glad no one got hurt!
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Posted: 9/14/2008 7:25:32 AM EDT
[#48]
I bought mine at Cabela's Ft. Worth. Was that your store? Here's my markings: #80285 5.56 NATO 60 gr SP W/C LAW ENFORCEMENT Not sure about the lot #, but I will check. I'll snd you Todd's phone number via message - you should talk to him about this.... BTW, what is a receiver rug? ETA: I called Cabella's to tell them of my problem and suggest they remove any remaining stock until we find out the problem. Also copied the GM on a letter to Hornady. When did you buy this at Cabela's??? |
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Posted: 9/14/2008 10:10:50 AM EDT
[#49]
Is'nt there a post on this board where a guy was usinga RRA AR and had primers blowing out using this ammo?? I'm pretty sure that's the same lot number... |
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Posted: 9/14/2008 10:49:22 AM EDT
[#50]
tag for future update.
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