I bought my first AR-15  about 2.5 weeks ago and finally got to take it to the range today for the first time. Brought my Mossberg 151 M(a) rifle along with me because I haven't had a chance to fire it since I replace some parts and I wanted to see if I fixed it or not. Also brought my Glock 26, and a friend brought his one and only gun a Glock 17.

Here's a picture of both rifles side by side. The AR-15 is a Eagle Arms marked Cav-Arms Lower and the upper was a complete Stag Arms 2H model. Mags were Magpul 30 rd P-Mags
http://jesse.mrozowski.com/photos/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=8561&g2_serialNumber=2

http://jesse.mrozowski.com/photos/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=8566&g2_serialNumber=2



This is me shooting the AR-15; that Gear Sector sling I bought really helps you steady the rifle. I used the little bench rest they had there once but it had some gunk on it that got on my rifle.
http://jesse.mrozowski.com/photos/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=8586&g2_serialNumber=2



First target with the AR-15 at 40 yards: I was using Priv ammo. I also bought a box of Wolf Military classic and Federal in the black box, and aside from the Wolf sucking I notice no real difference.
http://jesse.mrozowski.com/photos/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=8651&g2_serialNumber=2



I was aiming for the red on that first one so I adjusted the windage knob and started aiming higher and ended up with this target
http://jesse.mrozowski.com/photos/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=8641&g2_serialNumber=2



Eventually I wanted to see what I could do with the rifle at a closer range so seeing as how I had a pistol target I couldn't seem to hit worth a damn I gave it a go with the AR-15 at 15 yards and ended up like this. (The smaller ones are obviously my rifle, the larger my attempts at pistolering.)
http://jesse.mrozowski.com/photos/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=8636&g2_serialNumber=2



Results with my Mossberg at 40 yards. First time I shot it I didn't use the bench rest there and ended up with favorable results:
http://jesse.mrozowski.com/photos/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=8646&g2_serialNumber=2


After handing it off to my buddy and seeing him do better with the bench I figured I needed to school him. I may suck with a pistol but I'm good with my rifles. So this is my second attempt with Mossberg. That's 30 rounds, some in the same hole.
http://jesse.mrozowski.com/photos/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=8631&g2_serialNumber=2



My friend decided to take pictures of his best groupings with his pistol and my Mossberg. Pistol was at 15 yards and rifle at 40 yards
http://jesse.mrozowski.com/photos/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=8616&g2_serialNumber=2


http://jesse.mrozowski.com/photos/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=8621&g2_serialNumber=2



Observations and Conclusions:
I brought some Wolf ammo just to give it a whirl and regardless of the 9mm or the 223 Wolf ammo is shitty. It's not accurate. It's not clean. It's only marginally cheaper. I'm never buying it again.

I really, really suck with pistols. Seriously suck. I have no idea why. I'm drastically better with my .22 pistols than my 9mm ones. I can't imagine 9mm being that less accurate... is it? I'm better with the 22 rifle than I am with the AR-15 too, is it a recoil thing? Maybe but I'm really good with the Swiss K-31 and that thing is somewhere between a .308 and .30-06 so recoil can't be all of it. Maybe I need glass for the AR-15 to do better with it?

I love the sights on that little Mossberg, best $110 I've ever spent. It also appears that I fixed the issues it was having where it would double and sometimes triple feed getting rounds jammed up in the receiver. It failed to feed properly twice when my friend was shooting it but I think this had to do with the rounds becoming deformed in the tube somehow because the two I removed had some gouges in the tips.

Questions
My friend now wants to buy a .22 rifle after seeing how well my 22 rifle performed, any suggestions for him? I told him they stopped making that model Mossberg I own 50+ years ago so he's out of luck. He really liked the aperture sights on the gun and to the best of my knowledge no current autoloading 22 rifles have those. I suggested a Marlin 60 or a Ruger 10/22 and some cheap glass might be order.

Also the AR-15 powder had a distinct oder I've never smelled before from a bullet. The gun itself smoked a lot too. I was getting smoke from the hardguards. Is this gas being expelled, some kind of oil on the barrel from shipping, or is it something fraked? I have a video I can post if it might help.

I adjusted the windage knob and started aiming higher and ended up with this target

You need to adjust your front sight so you arent using 'kentucky windage' to hit where you need to be. A nail or bullet will work in a pinch. There is ALWAYS something at the range you can adjust the front sight with.


10/22 makes a fine .22LR rifle.

The reason you might not being shooting as well with the 9MM vs. the 22LR pistol is you're flinching or anticipating the recoil of the larger 9MM, and pulling your shots. Trying slowing down enough to where the shot is a suprise to you, and see if those groups dont shrink down. Then slowly work back up to a normal firing pace. Dont slap the trigger!

Wolf sucks accuracy wise, is dirty, and many guns dont run well with it. Id shoot it in an AK or SKS but never in an AR15.

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Quoted: height=8 I adjusted the windage knob and started aiming higher and ended up with this target You need to adjust your front sight so you arent using 'kentucky windage' to hit where you need to be. A nail or bullet will work in a pinch. There is ALWAYS something at the range you can adjust the front sight with.

Does that adjust for elevation too? I'm thinking of getting a different front sight post all together because it's far too large for me to be terribly precise with at distances.

You think you suck with a pistol? The only way I hit anything with one is if I throw it.

Quoted: Quoted: I adjusted the windage knob and started aiming higher and ended up with this target You need to adjust your front sight so you arent using 'kentucky windage' to hit where you need to be. A nail or bullet will work in a pinch. There is ALWAYS something at the range you can adjust the front sight with. Does that adjust for elevation too? I'm thinking of getting a different front sight post all together because it's far too large for me to be terribly precise with at distances.

Elevation: Adjust with your front sight post

Windage: Adjust with your rear sight


The key to shooting with irons is consistency. Even if your FSP (front sight post) is not perfectly lined up inside your rear sight when shooting as long as you do it everytime its not an issue. That is why each rifle has to be zero'd to the shooter, and nose-to-charging handle is taught by the military. But you should not be specifically aiming off target to hit the target (in this case the bullseye).

So no you dont need to change out the iron sights but you do need to be consistent, and you do need to get your elevation squared away. Hold the FSP on the target the same way each time, get yourself into a solid shooting position, breath correctly, and squeeze the trigger slowly. In the Army its called the 4 fundamentals. Even the most basic and untrained of person can be taught to shoot well in a matter of weeks if they apply the fundamentals to thier shooting.

With the pistols I would do A LOT of slow dryfire practice to both get used to the trigger and to get your mind used to "shooting" the gun but without the recoil.

Also a decent exercise is to buy some dummy rounds and have your buddy load your mags with the dummy rounds down in the mag so you dont know where they are. If you get a dummy round, and you jerk like you are expecting the recoil you know you need to work on that. Make sure the dummy rounds will actually feed in the gun first.

It doesnt require a hard hitting gun to develop a flinch, and a lot of shooters do it without even knowing it. The best way to find out is to have them shoot thinking they are shooting a live round, and see their reaction to pulling the trigger. People will jump like crazy on a dummy round or in a bolt gun you can use a fired peice of brass with someone else loading the gun.

Good on you for going AND taking a friend.

Stay safe / have fun.

The only way to get better is to pay a lot of money to ATK or the like. In time it will come! I wish I had saved a progression of my targets from month to month as I learned to shoot a pistol. At first, I was happy hitting the paper. Now from the seated position if I can't cover all 15 shots with my fist at 10 yards, I feel bad. It is all about practice practice practice. +1 to you and your friend and having some safe fun!

For your FIRST TIME WITH A AR15 you did Just Fine!

Shoot NTCH at all times ! (Nose to Charge handle) Keep same hold

Might use a rest,
I just use my range bag, Have used my GI blanket.

Sand bag would be best!

For a 50yards Zero, I use a  50yard Small Bore rifle target,
you can get them at Wally world.

I REST THE ORANGE CIRCLE ON TOP OF FRONT SIGHT POST

Stick With it! Practice alot.

With Good ammo you should shoot a Tiny Ragged Hole at the 50Y line

GOOD LUCK!!

ah, i remember the days when I was shooting groups like that (2 months ago!)

Since then, I've really, really tightened my groups by listening to the advice of my elders on how to shoot.  Like the elusive art of hitting a golf ball, shooting a rifle accurately looks deceptively simple

The most important thing is that with rifles, you really have to have the fundamentals of marksmanship down, and the first problem with noobs is that the recoil becomes a distraction, and the trigger pull becomes shit because you are anticipating the recoil, or to put it in less polite terms, you're afraid of it and you jerk the trigger.

a good test of whether or not you jerk the trigger is to have a friend insert a dummy round in the middle of 5, 10, 20 rounds... and if you jerk the trigger when you get to that snap cap, you will see plain as day that yep, you do jerk the trigger.  Denial aint just a river in Egypt as they say, and I had it in spades when I first started shooting.  

Other fundamentals to remember are breathing, cheek weld/consistency, and follow through.  You will also want to work on your stance.  While a jutted elbow works for target shooters who brings the sights on the rifle right into their face, you will probably want to point your elbow down to give you more strength/leverage to support your rifle as well.

Anyway, i didn't actually know how to shoot my rifle until an old guy at the range decided to bless me with his knowledge (after I asked him for help zeroing my EBR) so you may want to sign up for a class and learn the fundamentals.  Just like it would be unreasonable to assume anyone could learn how to golf by reading golf forums, reading firearms forums won't make you a good shooter as well.  

You will need instruction and practice.

Quoted: For your FIRST TIME WITH A AR15 you did Just Fine! Shoot NTCH at all times ! (Nose to Charge handle) Keep same hold Might use a rest, I just use my range bag, Have used my GI blanket. Sand bag would be best! For a 50yards Zero, I use a  50yard Small Bore rifle target, you can get them at Wally world. I REST THE RED CIRCLE ON TOP OF FRONT SIGHT POST Stick With it! Practice alot. With Good ammo you should shoot a Tiny Ragged Hole at the 50Y line GOOD LUCK!!

Nose to charging handle is good for new shooters but more experienced people should use whatever they shoot best with.

Besides with parallax free RDS's head position consistency isnt nearly as important as it is with irons.

What range were you at?

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Quoted: What range were you at?

Myrtle Grove Wildlife resort up near LaPlata, MD
http://www.dnr.state.md.us/publiclands/southern/myrtlegrove.asp