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Posted: 4/11/2007 9:38:12 AM EDT
[#1]
The Agreement of 2000
In March 2000 Smith & Wesson signed an agreement with the Clinton administration in order to avoid lawsuits. The company agreed to a number of safety and design standards, as well as limits on the sale and distribution of their products. Gun clubs and gun rights groups responded to this agreement almost instantly by initiating large-scale boycotts of Smith & Wesson by refusing to buy their new products and flooding the firearms market with used S&W guns, cutting into their market share.[1][2][3] Fuck Smith & Wesson and Ruger ! |
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Posted: 4/11/2007 9:41:15 AM EDT
[#2]
Well, you might as well say Fuck Stag cause they are the ones actually making the M&P for Smith.....
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Posted: 4/11/2007 9:41:25 AM EDT
[#3]
Thanks for the helpful insight rugerp345 Love the name by the way.  |
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Posted: 4/11/2007 9:41:27 AM EDT
[#4]
interesting user name for someone who joined after March 2000. J |
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Posted: 4/11/2007 9:44:41 AM EDT
[#5]
I picked up a basic S&W M&P15 a few months ago, shot a few hundred rounds through it, and I like it. I paid a little more for the S&W ($950), but I bought my Bushmaster a few years ago.
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Posted: 4/11/2007 9:51:34 AM EDT
[#6]
The components are made by Stag/Continental Machine tool, like RRA.
the Stag ro RRA might be a little less in price. Quality is pretty much the same. |
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Posted: 4/11/2007 9:54:47 AM EDT
[#7]
back on topic...
Great rifles... Stag uppers the tactical model uses troy industries rail and sights. J |
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Posted: 4/11/2007 10:16:52 AM EDT
[#8]
I purchased the Tactical model just yesterday. Based on nothing more than the general fondling of the weapon that I did last night I will say it's one of the most solidly put together ARs I have ever held. Fit and finish are superb. The proof will be on the range, hopefully that will come in the next week or so, if Mother Nature co-operates.
The store I bought it from had a Bushy M4 with an A2 upper for 1200, the M&P15T was 1375. 175 bucks difference for a flattop upper, a Troy RIS and front and rear Troy flipup BUIS......took me about 2 seconds to pull out my wallet. Easiest sell that guy ever made, i guarantee. As for Smith getting in bed with the Clintonistas. Not thrilled about it, but I do see it as a business move rather than a lack of character on the part of the company, unlike Ruger's. |
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Posted: 4/11/2007 10:37:21 AM EDT
[#9]
I love mine has performed flawlessly and has about 1k roundsa through it. Good buy in my opinion.
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Posted: 4/11/2007 11:19:05 AM EDT
[#10]
I think it would possible to build a rifle using a Stag lower and LPK to the same specs as the S&W rifle for cheaper. I haven't done the math, but $1375 seems fairly high for a build cost using all standard parts plus a Troy rail and BUIS.
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Posted: 4/11/2007 2:44:16 PM EDT
[#11]
S&W has been sold since that agreement was made with Clinton. It was owned by a British Co. The new owner has voided that agreement. In the old agreement they would not even make any guns to sell to the public, that could hold more than 10rds. The new owners are nothing like the old ones.
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Posted: 4/11/2007 2:50:00 PM EDT
[#12]
I like the pictures I have seen of them, but have yet to see a real one. Nice looking logo and everything. Based on what I have heard they seem to be on par with Bushmaster for quality. I would buy one if the moon and stars were in alignment.
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Posted: 4/11/2007 2:54:02 PM EDT
[#13]
 and to get back on track I love my MP15 |
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Posted: 4/11/2007 3:54:29 PM EDT
[#14]
Paid 1300 for mine the other day. Prices ranged from 1300-1400 in town. Lovin' it.
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Posted: 4/11/2007 4:46:41 PM EDT
[#15]
If the new owners at Smith are different, they need to get rid of those damn key lock's on there handguns, i.e. all their new snub nosed revolvers.
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Posted: 4/11/2007 4:56:29 PM EDT
[#16]
I'll let you know about S&W after I get my Tac back from them for the 2nd time. Won't shoot 556, short strokes. 223 is fine as far as function.
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Posted: 4/11/2007 5:51:48 PM EDT
[#17]
I didn't have knowledge of the infamous "Ruger Letter" until I had already purchased a P-89, P-94, P-95, PC-9, 22/45, 10/22, Mini-14, and my final Ruger purchase- my P345. The trouble is, I have all this money invested in products from a company that threw me under the bus over a decade ago. It wasn't until I got hi-speed internet and joined ARFCOM that I found out about the betrayal. If I were to sell all of my Ruger products, I wouldn't get shit in return, because (to be quite honest) I didn't pay much in the first place. Ruger is cheap, functional and reliable. I'm sure that I'm not the lone ranger that invested in a bad company. 
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Posted: 4/11/2007 6:03:32 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 4/11/2007 7:17:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Out of the box my M&P15T sucked. Short stroked, rails loose, wouldn't zero. Not cool.
Called S&W, sent it in, and it came back perfect. Rock solid, has eaten every ammo I've given it, and I'm pretty sure it will shoot better than I can. S&W made it right, so I'm satisfied now. |
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Posted: 4/12/2007 3:55:03 AM EDT
[#20]
On my 2nd. S&W, gave the first one to my son who is an Army Officer.....he loves it. I'm in the process of doing some nice upgrades to mine now. When it's done I'll post some pictures, It's an extremely accurate weapon.
I also own a Colt and a RRA, this rifle can easily stand with the other manufactures. |
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Posted: 4/12/2007 4:49:44 AM EDT
[#21]
They seem to be nice rifles. S&W doesn't make any of the parts, they just assemble it.
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Posted: 4/12/2007 5:20:52 AM EDT
[#22]
Im likin mine, got it for under 1k...~975 otd, a regular m&P15 I have fired around 500 rounds of different stuff through it with no bumps. I put a nice trijicaon scope on, but haven't shot with it yet.I have some new tfe coated mags from magpul to try out as soon as I can. It'll be mixed with FedAE, some fioch (got on sale) and remmy fmjhp, I think they are all 55gr. The rifle looks nice for now.
SERK |
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Posted: 4/12/2007 5:24:59 AM EDT
[#23]
It helps if you are posting something like above,that you make sure your responsilbe enough to know that this is not the case currently. Time to move on,it's not the year 2000 anymore.Things change,keep up with current events. Please Read The Post From DNS Above |
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Posted: 4/12/2007 5:29:58 AM EDT
[#24]
My 15A just returned from the factory. Prior sending it in, I couldn't get it to zero....being about 8" high and 8" left with the adjustments maxed out. I spoke with the gun shop that I bought it from first and they said return everything to factory settings and go shoot it again and it should be zeroed.
 So I called Smith and they told me that I could expect a shipping label in few days. Sure enough got the label, dropped the rifle off with UPS and off she went. Two weeks later I got my rifle back with a brand new upper and test target. Everything looks good. I haven't been able to get out and shoot it yet...hopefully this weekend. I'll post an update. Edit to add....so far I am extremely pleased with S&W. Great service and the rifle is very solid but for the crappy stock. |
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Posted: 4/12/2007 5:44:36 AM EDT
[#25]
I'm seeing a lot of this on ARFCOM- as far as people are having trouble [not everyone of course, but enough to notice] out of M&P's from S&W. Anyone think that QC on assembling AR's is lacking at S&W? Bear in mind that I am not talking about Customer Service, as I am seeing that these problems are being handled promptly. It just seems that when people are receiving their weapons back from Stag they work just fine. just my observations. I personally have sold 5 or so M&P's and have not heard any complaints from my customers. That is to say that I have not heard back good OR bad. |
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Posted: 4/12/2007 6:36:12 AM EDT
[#26]
I bought a M&P15T about 2 weeks ago. As you can tell by my user name. This is my first AR15 and I absolutely love it. I only have shot it once but it was awesome. I already purchased an Eotech and Surefire Flashlight with VLTOR mount. I want to buy a front grip for it too but i havent decided in which one I want yet.
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Posted: 4/12/2007 6:52:34 AM EDT
[#27]
Ive got 400 rds through my M&PT. It shot everything from 40g hp to various military ball, all without a hiccup. It's at least as accurate as the colt and bushys I've owned--it shoots the 40g hps particularly well. Mine was $1275. As I did the math, I concluded there was no way I build it for that price. Fit and finish appear top notch. It's trigger is only average--not as nice as my bushy m4. I'll shoot a couple thousand rounds through it and make a decision about up grading it.
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Posted: 4/12/2007 7:26:05 AM EDT
[#28]
Love my M&P15T. It has had no problems with any of the ammo I've fed it. I did the math and decided that the Tactical model was a very reasonable value, especially since I am new to ARs and do not have the time or desire to assemble one myself. Recently realized that S&W forgot to include the tool Troy makes to adjust the front BUIS. Quick call to S&W, and I had the tool mailed to me in a couple of days.
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Posted: 4/15/2007 1:11:27 PM EDT
[#29]
I found this thread after posting my frustrations with my newly purchased 15T. Link to my other post.
I am glad to see others are having good luck S&W warranty work. I am calling them tomorrow to to see about getting a rifle that works properly. |
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Posted: 4/16/2007 5:26:13 AM EDT
[#30]
S&W is indeed owned by a different company now, but it's the company that invented the internal lock used by S&W on their handguns. The internal lock is seemingly mandatory on the handguns, but it's conspicuous by its absence on the S&W M&P AR. You'd think soup for the goose would be sauce for the gander . . . Anyhow, I have a S&W M&P M4gery clone (no Lego hardware) that I bought last summer. It has about 1200 rds through it and has been a solid, accurate performer with no issues. Noah |
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Posted: 4/16/2007 5:37:55 PM EDT
[#31]
I got a tactical about a month ago, it has not had a hiccup since I got it, I havent exercised it much, but still no jams. fit and finish was excellent
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Posted: 4/16/2007 7:03:21 PM EDT
[#32]
I haven't had any problems out of mine at all. Matter of fact I carry it was my Patrol Rifle. I do thrust it.
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Posted: 4/16/2007 9:09:46 PM EDT
[#33]
I met with one of S&W's LE rep's last month. Both their AR's and locks on revolvers came up in conversation. He told me all the original M&P's were indeed completely built by Stag and they did have some QC issues with some guns. He said as of early this year the guns were now being built entirely in-house by S&W with the exception of the BCG (it's LMT). He also said the locks on the revolvers were going to go away, but couldn't say for sure when.
I know some of you are going to raise the BS flag with this info. All I know is what he said. I have known him for several years and never known him to be a liar. |
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Posted: 4/16/2007 9:14:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Oooh, I wonder if I can send them my revolvers and have it removed? |
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Posted: 4/16/2007 9:18:14 PM EDT
[#35]
If you guys only knew how easy it is to build your own...
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